From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1500
Date: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:37 AM

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There are 9 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Re: Water Pipe
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. Re: Porcsche transmission for DeLorean
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>

3. Thanks for a great weekend, and a question about side stripes
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>

4. Re: Re: AC quits working when the car stops moving?
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>

5. RE: recovering seats - retry-
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

6. Re: Door launcher concern
From: Peter Lucas <lucas_at_dml_Maya.com>

7. Clutch master cylinder
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

8. DeLorean Engine Options.
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

9. Re: re:Engine Swaps and tranny Questions (Buick Version-LONG)
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 04:35:03 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Water Pipe

Check out following pic:

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/images/dmcpump/ml_engine.jpg

THAT is why James' last paragraph makes imminent sense. Almost renders
PRV as easy to work on as a domestic block! Last time I changed cap &
rotor removed upper air assembly. Was bit of a pain in the assets. Am
seriously considering re-routing wiring harness to passenger valve
cover so in future I can simply remove intake manifold with upper air
assembly still in place. No better way to monitor health of those
hidden areas (and retrieve about $4.00 of dropped fasteners).

BTW: I ensured no leaks on internal water pipe with 3 tests:
1) Look under intake manifold from above with an inspection mirror
(shine a flashlight in there)
2) Look under intake manifold in person by sticking your head up by
bellhousing (ouch)
3) Reach under intake manifold with a dry rag and feel around for
moisture.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_e...>
wrote:
> You're not the minority Bill,
> While you're ALL THE WAY down in that area of the engine, why not 
> remove 4 more bolts. I broke a bolt on the pump.. but the four on the 
> internal water pipe weren't even hard to remove for me. 
> Granted; you can't just leave on out (like I did the water pump's) if 
> it breaks.
> 
> But be careful Mark, when putting in those little orings.. it's easy 
> to knock one out of place and end up pinching it with the water 
> pipe... then when you don't test the pressure cooling system and just 
> put everything back together... you'll have twice the fun doing it 
> all all over again.
> But who the hell would put everything back together with testing the 
> pressure?? Surely not me.
> 
> Step two is giving up and shipping the car to Grady, and spending 
> twice what you had expected. And knowing it was worth every penny.
> 
> And if you're not already -- give the car a tune up, and replace the 
> spark plugs and etc and fuel injectors while you have the intake 
> manifold off. Then pray.
> 
> -James L 004009




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 07:10:02 -0000
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Porcsche transmission for DeLorean

Thank you for the response to my questions.

It seems that the Chevy Vortec 4.3 V-6 might be the easiest fit, 
considering a few people have already have done it and have made it 
work.  I really like the Audi V6 engines both turbo and non-turbo, 
but the ECU integration might be an issue.

Of the Honda engines, the new 240-hp 24-valve VTEC V-6 engine seems 
to to be a pretty good option, not withstanding the front-wheel 
rotation issue.  The engine on the S2000 is way-cool, but the engine 
doesn't "open up" with its variable valve timing until around 6,000+ 
RPM.  I have heard that the S2000 is most happy on a track and that 
regular street driving of the S2000 is "underwhelming" (made up 
word).  The Nissan 350Z 287 hp 3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve V6 engine also 
looks to be a pretty cool option.

The reason that I suggested the possibility of a Chevy Small Block 
based V4 is because other manufactures (i.e. Saab and Ford) have 
utilized V4 engines in various vehicles, (mostly truck applications), 
and now Honda and others use V4 engines in motorcycle applications.  
True, inline engines are easier to balance and cheaper to manufacture 
than "V" engines.  I like the idea of using a horizontally opposed 
engine, but the width of the engine doesn't seem to be compatable 
with the DeLorean engine bay.  The V4 speculation is just that, 
speculation.  I try to think outside the box, I figure if no one ever 
thought outside the box, there wouldn't be any little shiny cars with 
gullwing doors on the road.

Concerning the recent postings about transmission adaptors, I would 
like to offer the following link:  Unicap Transmission Adaptors
(http://www.pnc.com.au/~bill/Transmission.html).

The new Mazda Rotary engine is cool too, ignoring the low torque, but 
now with good fuel economy and emissions.

Thank you,
Ben Ferguson
Member of the Board of Directors - American Hydrogen Association 
(www.clean-air.org)
Member - Arizona DeLorean Club (www.az-d.org)
captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_j...> 
wrote:
> This is not necessarily true.  I think you are right that most 
Hondas
> turn the wrong way, but the 2liter, 240hp out of the S2000 (which I 
think
> would be one of the best candidates) turns in the correct 
direction.  
> 
> For people who wanted to retain the Renault transmission, this 
would not
> make a difference.  A fix would be as simple as flipping the ring 
and
> pinion in the final drive of the transmission.  Remember the 
transmission
> is used in FWD applications, so we all know it can spin backwards.  
Some
> transmissions do not allow this "flip", including the Porsche g50.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Fri, 9 May 2003 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Steve Stankiewicz
> <protodelorean_at_dml_y...> writes:
> > Uhhh... before anyone goes chasing a Honda/Acura VTEC
> > conversion, you might want to know they rotate in the
> > opposite direction of most engines.  (Wouldn't that
> > suck to find out after it's mounted in place!)
> > 
> > =====
> > Steve
> > 
> > VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
> > www.projectdelorean.com
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> > http://search.yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 
> > address:
> > moderators_at_dml_d...
> > 
> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> > www.dmcnews.com
> > 
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 02:23:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>
Subject: Thanks for a great weekend, and a question about side stripes

Thanks to everyone involved in the DMC Open House this weekend.  I had a
great time.  (I can't make Sunday's events, so the weekend is over for
me.)  This was my first event, and I hope to be at many future ones.

I've put all the pictures I took this weekend online at:
http://artifact.psychedelic.net/~aos/photos/?album=20030511-DMCOH

And now, on to my question about side stripes.  My car has the wide style
factory stripes on the lower half of the body panels.  (I heard someone
call these "California stripes" once.)  Due to some fairly significant
damage to the right rear quarter panel, I elected to replace the panel,
but the replacement of course doesn't have the strip.

Does anyone know where I might acquire a set of these stripes (I wouldn't
mind replacing them all), or at least the two pieces that go on the right
rear quarter panel?

Failing that, has anyone successfully removed the stripes from one panel
and affixed them to another?

Thanks.  Had a great weekend.

-andrew
 #4115
 Houston TX



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 02:44:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>
Subject: Re: Re: AC quits working when the car stops moving?

On Wed, 7 May 2003, Harold McElraft wrote:

> One of the connections may be hot; maybe enough to burn a wire or
> connection so look for that. Also, the low pressure cycling switch
> on the AC accumulator may have defective contacts inside.
>
> Look for damaged wires in the circuit. Take off the fitting at the
> accumulator and try a jumper across the circuit and test the amps at the
> clutch. That will give you some idea about the switch. Based on your
> unit number you may have a high pressure switch; jumper test that
> connection also. You might check the ground wire on the fan motor.

I've gone over this whole circuit, and cleaned every connection up,
resulting in an increase at the clutch of 0.4 A.  I'm still about 0.4 A
short of your suggested target, but I seem to be close enough that the
compressor is working for long periods of time.

I should have mentioned that the pressure switches and accumulator are
brand new.  I checked them out anyway, and found that my test shunt was
actually consuming a little more current than the switches.

I thoroughly cleaned the ground where the cooling fans go about six months
ago, so I'm fairly certain it's in good shape too.

I'm really not sure at this point where the other 0.4 A or so is
disappearing, but as long as the AC is working, I'm not going to complain.

Thanks for the advice.

-andrew
 #4115
 Houston TX



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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:04:45 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: recovering seats - retry-

Jeff, If want to contact me off the list, I can help you with the seat
covers.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff [mailto:webmaster_at_dml_88-mph.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 12:35 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] recovering seats - retry-



Ok, so this seemed rare to me, but I got 0 replies!! So I'm resending
this one.. maybe few words might have filtered it out to those who know.
Anybody?

Ok, now here's a baffler.

Got a pair of seats that I'm going to recover. First off, I'll never say
that the D seats were ever half-heartedly built, because of two words.
Hog
rings. Darn there are a lot of them there!! Ok, so, got main back of the
seats pulled and the foam exposed. Problem is when you get to the
headrest. (I'm sure some of you already know where I am going with
this.) ok, so that little notch of leather between the main seat and the
headrest is a nice addition, but is a pain to work around. Two sets of
hog rings holding that together. Ok, so I dealt with that and now here
is the problem. How do I get the covers off the headrest without
damaging the foam? And worse yet, how do I get new covers back on and
the hog rings into spaces to re-establish that "notch" ?

Am I in for any other surprises? It makes me wonder how they covered
these things in the first place.


-Jeff Chabotte
Norwich, CT
Webmaster, http://www.88-mph.com



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For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:59:55 -0400
From: Peter Lucas <lucas_at_dml_Maya.com>
Subject: Re: Door launcher concern

Since several people have requested it, I have posted the schematic and 
a short description of the interlock logic box that I built to 
interface my door release actuators with the car alarm on my D.

They are in the YahooGroups Files section under "Door Release Interlock"

Enjoy.

--Pete Lucas
   VIN #06703




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:45:36 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Clutch master cylinder

The hose that goes from the fluid reservoir to the clutch master cylinder is in bad
shape on my car, what kind of hose can i use to replace it with?

Mark
6683






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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:43:46 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: DeLorean Engine Options.

Sure, V-4 engines are used in motorcycles, but look at how much LESS 
weight they have to move. It may be a good choice if you're building a cust=
om 
bike, or perhaps even a trike, but not a car. In addition, yes, there are q=
uite a 
few odd-ball motors out there. Unimogs will sometimes have I-5 cylinder 
motors in both flavors of petrol (err, gasoline) and diesel, and even GM ma=
kes 
V-18 diesel motors. But just because they're made, doesn't mean that you'd =

want to use them. Hence why they are used for only custom/specific 
applications. Which is why you typicly don't find them in passenger 
automobiles.

The Audi engines do indeed to be quite interesting, but still not a good ch=
oice 
IMO. 90 V-6 _at_dml_ 3 litres? You're back where you started with the PRV, but no=
w 
you've got less support. Aside from that, for alomst the same price that yo=
u 
would pay for just simply the engine itself & ECUs, you could have one of 
DMCH's HiPo Conversions. On a side note, the Audi motor does not appear 
to be a PRV cousin. Too bad IMO, as it would have been very facinating to 
convert the B288F, or a Z7X-715 over to a DOHC set up.

Another motor is the Rover V-8 (used by Bob Brandys in his car). A small 
block V8 that appears to fit rather well into the D's engine compartment ma=
kes 
it a rather nice choice! But I haven't really been able to pull that much i=
nfo up 
on the motor stateside over here (although I've not searched that intensly =
to 
be fair). In the UK, it seems to be quite a popular motor, but Stateside, I=
've only 
found info on the Pontiac 215 from back in the early 60's. Perhaps Bob, or =

someone else could provide a bit more info on resources related to this mot=
or.

As far as Japanese engines go, that would be a no there too. VTEC itself is=
 
quite an interesting feature, but is useless for street driving since you h=
ave to 
damn near red-line the engine to activate it. Otherwise, it's just a market=
ing 
ploy. It's the same as back in the 60's when Detroit was measuring BHP of i=
t's 
engines _at_dml_ the flywheel, with no accessories attached. That isn't a fair 
measurement because after all, no one drives around with no accessories 
attached. And it's the same with VTEC, because no one drives around town 
constantly _at_dml_ 6K+ RPMs. But, I'm not here to debate marques. Simply put, the=
 
majority of Japanese engines are efficient, and some powerful, but way too =

complicated in both engineering, and installation. VTEC is great for trying=
 to 
balance economy, and extra output from a motor, but, our goal here is power=
 
first, economy and emissions 2nd. And the effort and cost involved to insta=
ll 
either a 4 banger, or a V6 into a DeLorean just isn't worth it. This become=
s 
less like a conversion, and more like a "kustomization". It's being done no=
t so 
much because it's more efficient or powerful, but simply because it *can* b=
e 
done.

Now on the flip side of this, the Wankel Rotary is indeed an engine that wo=
uld 
be a good canidate. It's compact, lightweight and damn powerful. It also ha=
s a 
long history of engineering behind it. The new Renesis motor by Mazda is 
indeed a bit low on the torque end, but hey, it's the first version out in =
how 
many years? And no matter what it is, you never, ever want to buy the first=
 
version of anything. Even car reviews have complained about the torque 
problem too. If rotary is something you want, then give it a couple of year=
s, 
and see what improvements they make. But be warned, rotary engines are 
NOT cheap at all! Moreso if you don't have a core motor to exchange when 
trying to buy one from what I've seen. But others can really give you more =
info 
on this conversion process than I can.

Which brings us to the American engines. Now I'm not a "bowtie" person, so =

I've no idea as to the specifics on either the Vortec, or the Grand Nationa=
l 
motors (I must be odd man out here, because I'm from Ford family, versus 
most DeLorean owners who seem to be GM people). But, I can tell you that 
since they are both popular/common motors, and the since the Vortec is used=
 
in so many various applications, that they will have MANY aftermarket 
options, as well as a great deal of resources of both parts and data suppor=
ting 
them. So that, coupled with a few people that have actually completed 
DeLorean-specific conversions related to these motors really makes them a 
good choice.

But in the end, if you're looking to "think outside of the box", and want t=
o have 
a powerful motor in your DeLorean that others consider unconventional, the =

choice is easy. Matter of fact, it's staring you right in the face. The PRV=
! You 
already know it fits, and it keeps with the cars heritage quite nicely! :) =
In 
addition, it has a LONG history, and a large support base behind it (albeit=
 not 
in this country). Applications for the motor have included everything from =

commuter cars, to even F1 racing. Some forms of it's dress also include dua=
l 
turbos that pump out 450BHP. Although you'd never need anything quite that =

powerful for the DeLorean.

So if you're looking for a challenge of some sort, consider that the gauntl=
et 
that has been thrown down! After researching things quite a bit, it was the=
 
road that I chose when it came to souping up my car. Once the remainder of =

my restoration is completed, it is the next project that I'll be begining o=
n. And 
believe me, converting over to a dual turbo with EFI shouldn't be a problem=
 at 
all. It may have a couple of hurdles and challenges, but it is indeed feasa=
ble.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:43:26 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: re:Engine Swaps and tranny Questions (Buick Version-LONG)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, webmaster_at_dml_d... wrote:
<SNIP>
> You have a damn good point there - the DeLorean does have excessively 
tall gears for a powerhouse of an engine. FYI I could supply the larger final 
drive section....
> 
> Martin

Getting new gear ratios shouldn't really be too much of a problem. UN1 
transaxles may not be the most common over here, but the do appear to be 
had rather inexpensivly. And since they all come from 4-cylinder  engines, 
they pretty much all have the tigher gear ratios. If I would have known this 
before, I might have completed a tranny swap with my new clutch. The shift 
patterns are the same, but I don't know if any modifications are needed to 
adapt the shift linkage and crossgate cable.

My question here is if perhaps the DeLorean application of the transaxle isn't 
prehaps a victim of shoddy parts from Renault? I've seen applications where 
both a 350Bhp PRV is mounted to the same tranny, and where even the 
Rover V-8 has been used as well. they all appear to stand up well to the 
power being delievered. I've also seen online various webpages that claim 
that anywhere from 300-400 horsepower can be absorbed by it safely. So is it 
possible that along with varied gear ratios, that the quality of the internals may 
also be varied as well?

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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