From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1507
Date: Saturday, May 17, 2003 8:48 AM

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: DMCH Concours

2. Re: right side light gremlin(s)
From: "James LaLonde" <>

3. Re: O-rings
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

4. Re: Alternator or clutch, please help me out.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

5. Re: No Fuel after distributor
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

6. Re: Roof seal replacement
From: Christian Williams <>

7. Stronger brakes up front?
From: "thomaspaulmccoy" <>

8. RE: Front rotor... cross reference?
From: "John Hervey" <>

9. RE: Front rotor... cross reference?
From: "John Hervey" <>

10. RE: right side light gremlin(s)
From: "John Hervey" <>

11. RE: No Fuel after distributor
From: "John Hervey" <>

12. Re: right side light gremlin(s)
From: "content22207" <>

13. Valve and timing cover gaskets question
From: "content22207" <>

14. Re: Roof seal replacement
From: "John Elgersma" <>

15. Re: No Fuel after distributor
From: "content22207" <>

16. Re: right side light gremlin(s) FIXED!!!

17. Re: 3 sensors
From: "content22207" <>

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:32:02 EDT
Subject: Re: DMCH Concours

Same here 
I brought one of the cars I just restored and had hoped to just drop it off 
and relax.
But as luck would have it It rained and I had to re-detail it plus a truck 
tire blew out and smashed the windshield.
(thanks DMCH for the quick (and I mean quick) windshield repair) 

Dan and I prepped our cars the night before 
I think I was outgunned there but we had a great time.
The windshield set me back a few hours.

I enjoyed this one more than any other of the concours's 
It was no pressure and it was fun to see what you can do with a D that has 
sat and then bring it back to Life.  
First to third was seperated by 12 points and all three cars had under 600 


See you in Pigeon Forge 
( and no I didn't pay Dan for the advertisement LOL )
appreciate the mention though 

And thanks to DMCH it was a good show.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:40:22 -0000
From: "James LaLonde" <>
Subject: Re: right side light gremlin(s)

One Fuse governs most of the items you mentioned. 
I can't recall which, but this happened to me when I replaced a 
marker socket and accidently crossed the wires. Fuses kept blowing... 
I eventually wised up and checked my wiring.

Make sure you didn't short anything under the dash... or maybe it's 
coincidental and your fuse just went. 

James L 4009


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:19:15 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: O-rings

Put a little silicone (sensor safe) in the grooves in the cylinder
heads where the "O" rings sit to keep them in place. You do have to be
very careful not to let the intake slide when placing it or you could
knock the "O" rings out of position. It is easier if you have another
pair of hands and lower it straight down slowly onto the "O" rings
without any sliding motion. I use silicone on the "O" rings which
makes things more prone to slide around but after it is assembled, if
everything is in position, is much less likely to leak. Use
Never-Seize on all the bolts so maybe in the future if you ever have
to go back in there you won't break any bolts.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 

--- In, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> When i re install my intake do i have to watch out for the o-rings
slipping out or do
> they stay in the groves good enough not to worry?
> Mark
> 6683


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:26:52 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: Alternator or clutch, please help me out.

You have 2 separate problems. The clutch is easy. Park in a lot with a
lot of room in front of you. With the engine running pull the
emergency brake on and hold your foot on the brake. Now shift into 1st
gear and let the clutch up. If the engine doesn't stall then the
clutch is gone.
 For your electrical problems have the battery charged and tested.
Many places will do this for free to sell you a new battery. Next
clean all of the "big" connections and all of the ground connections
then get the alternator tested. If the battery is over 5 years old it
is probably time to replace. The engine doesn't run good when the
voltage is too low.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> I am trying to find out suggestions and maybe some help to my problem.
> Here is the situation. While driving my DeLorean today, I noticed that
> only in 3-5 gears and hard acceleration the clutch felt like it was
> slipping, so naturally I thought okay, my clutch is almost bad with
> near 60K on it (as far as I know, but the previous owner claimed he
> purchased and installed a new pressure plate 10-20K previously). Okay,
> park the car, change to get ready to take the transmission out, and
> the car would not start. Turn the key to start - the engine wouldn't
> even crank. I hooked up a jumper battery and the engine slowly turned
> to a start. The battery light was dim but glowing on the dash. When
> trying to accelerate the engine, it accelerated slowly and badly unit
> I hit 6 thousand R.P.M.s, the light goes out, the engine idles fine,
> and the acceleration back to normal. I took it on the road and I felt
> the engine not accelerating as good again and noticed the light back
> on dimming. The question, is the clutch suspected to be bad and the
> light is just another problem, or is it that my alternator is dead but
> running whenever it feels, and the engine couldn't produce enough
> power and sucked the battery dry to keep going hence the slipping
> feeling with the throttle full open. Also for further information, my
> gauge said it was running a bit higher then 8 volts, and when the
> problems went away after I hit 6 grand, it went to 10 volts. Whenever
> I have just they key on and not trying to start, the battery light
> does come on, which I never noticed until I did the frame work and
> re-installed the frame. The car never runs 12 or 13 volts (according
> to the gauge), more around 10. I am off to do some electrical voltage
> testing and see what is going on. But the question about the clutch
> still stands. Thank you all for your time and help.


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:21:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: No Fuel after distributor

>From your description I am guessing that although you say you are
getting pressure at the fuel distributer I don't think it is enough.
Some causes for this could include a kinked or collapsed pick-up hose,
a bad fuel pump, maybe you got the 2 hoses by the fuel pump switched
when you replaced the hoses, a bad accumulater, or a clogged fuel
filter. For further troubleshooting a fuel pressure gauge set-up might
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hi,   
>        I am working on a DeLorean for a friend but have run into a
> It quit running in the early 90's and hasn't moved since.  I
replaced all of 
> the fuel system parts.  Everything in tank (except pump) &
accumulator/lines &
>  filter & all intake/water pump hoses.  His distributor was dirty so he 
> bought a new one from John Hervey.  
>        I get fuel pressure where the main line connects to the
> but when the air induction plate is depressed I get NO flow to the
> (injectors are NEW)  I have not touched the 02 adjustment as it is
> plugged)  Just for fun I installed my working distributor on the car
> still had no flow to the injectors so I can rule the distributor
out. I am 
> guessing this is a fuel pressure problem.
>        What are some things I should look for? Any help would be
> appreciated.  The car is a late 82 and has the newer style fuel pump
but does 
> look pretty old. 
> Thank You
> Dave,
> 6286
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:03:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <>
Subject: Re: Roof seal replacement


It's quite a challenge. The NCDMC club just did this on two cars under the
guidence of Dan from DMC Garden Grove. You've got to remove the T panel to
get the new seals in. We used a Dremel to take off the ends of the rivets,
closed the door, slid the old seals out, opened the door, and Dremeled out
the rest of the rivets. We put the new seals in and used stainless steel
screws (with the tips grinded off) to attach the new seals. Now in 20
years when it's time to do it again, you won't have to Dremel out the
rivets (always good to think ahead :)

You might want to call DMC Garden Grove and ask what size the screws were
originally. Then just get a grinder and take off the tips.

It took a solid afternoon to do this procedure. When Dremeling, BE SURE TO
PROTECT YOUR TORTION BARS. If you have the means to, you might even want
to pull the bars out. You'll then need to prop the doors open. But
whatever you do, make sure you don't damage the tortion bars.


On Fri, 16 May 2003, John Elgersma wrote:

> I just got myself a new seal for the driver's side roof but here is
> the problem I can not solve. The stainless plate that holds the seal
> in place is riveted with 8 rivets. Got those ordered as well. (I am
> all set for the challenge now).
> Drilling them rivets out of the roof was already discussed a few
> weeks ago and for those that replied, Thanks!! I figure I could just
> gently slide the plate in place but with the door hinges there, I
> can not see a solution. Maybe something that the club can tackle at
> a tech session this summer? I will see for now but any suggestions
> appreciated! Till soon.
> Bye
> JohnE.
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 20:59:37 -0000
From: "thomaspaulmccoy" <>
Subject: Stronger brakes up front?

Forgive me if this displays a lack of basic automotive knowledge...

but wouldn't I want stronger brakes in the rear of the car?  I know 
that on a bicycle, if you hit the front brakes too hard you WILL flip 
over (trust me).



Message: 8
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:37:14 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: Front rotor... cross reference?

Travis, Autospecialty/TRW is the supplier for the rotors. Since I started
dealing with them I have bought all their stock. They require a 10 piece
minum to plate and cross drill. So when I had these done the only had two
sets of 4 ea in stock ( 8 ) so they made an exception. That's why I didn't
want to break the set now. I'm checking to see how long it will be to get
more out of the UK and then when I drill 2 more sets I'm going to do 4
fronts extra. I know they wear out faster. I also changed the web site to be
more clear and also raised the price. If you still want them in the future I
will honor the old price to you.Thanks for your support.

-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Goodwin []
Subject: RE: [DML] Front rotor... cross reference?

I gotcha. I didn't want to come across like you were unwilling to sell them
to me. From what I'm gathering the sets are somewhat scarce across the
board, even dating back to 1999 when they were first discovered.


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:46:47 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: Front rotor... cross reference?

As you will see on another post. Special T was the first company to have
Autospecialty / TRW cross drill rotors for the Delorean. Least that was what
I was told. They have a 10 piece minium on plating and drilling and at this
time they are out of rotors. I'm waiting for them to come in from the UK and
will have them plating and cross drilled as soon as can. The design and
specifications and drilling is done under the marketing name of PowerStop.
John Hervey
Cross your fingers there will be more rotors.

-----Original Message-----
From: W."Ski" Lukowski []
Subject: RE: [DML] Front rotor... cross reference?


I also looked everywhere possible in the US but seems that anything to
do with front rotors and calipers is located either in the UK or
Australia????  Hmmmmm....Anyways, I still think that someone should
check this out and see if we can use it!


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 20:37:59 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: right side light gremlin(s)

Mike, Power is coming into the headlight switch. When pressed in, the power
is  transferred to the fuse # 2 and #8 which is feeding the a terminal
collection center  off the rheostat and is going to all the parts you
mentioned. One side of the rheostat is a collection center but normally not
the main problem for anything except the dash light. I suspect the head
light switch with a combination of fuses is the problem. It may need
cleaning which would require taking it out or replacing it and then clean it
to have a spare. This is why it goes bad. It's carrying the load for a lot
of lights.
John Hervey


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 20:47:10 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: No Fuel after distributor

Dave, If your pushing the air flow metering plate down while the pump is
running then most likley the pump is pumping enough volume for the system to
build the pressure.It takes about 38 lb's to open the injectors. 2.6 bars
John Hervey


Message: 12
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 02:16:15 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: right side light gremlin(s)

Fuse #8 protects all the items you're missing -- check it to ensure good.

Fuse #8 is a real treat -- seems to have inherited everything DMC ran
out of space in the fuse block for. Compare to Fuse #2 (left side
illumination ONLY). As part of re-wiring my headlight circuit moved
instrument lamps, A/C panel lamps, and cigar lamp to a new inline
fuse. Headlight and hazard switches have no internal illumination (not
about to run THAT risk again -- see melted switch in #5939's photo
album.) Fuse #8 now a mirror copy of fuse #2. 

Now that you've managed to keep all those fluids in the car, is time
to address the electrical system. Not hopeless, but far from perfect.
Biggest problem I've found is all that 16 gauge wire! My mods use 14
gauge. Relay compartment makes sense, but if DMC wanted to keep
THROUGH THE HEADLIGHT MASTER SWTICH?! Spend some quality time with the
wiring diagram and diagrams in section M of tech manual. Can be a life
saver on side of the road (seems like whole car can be driven from
relay compartment). Always carry 2 and 3 way jumpers in the glove box.

Bill Robertson


Message: 13
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 02:39:02 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Valve and timing cover gaskets question

Have been chasing World's Most Persistent Vacuum Leak ever since car
purchased. Isn't in any of the usual places. Then message #32899 got
me thinking -- sprayed valves covers. Both are leaking, badly. Not a
drop of oil, but boy do they suck in the carb cleaner (or brake
cleaner if that's all you've got. Mmmm, smells so good).

Covers are leaking on all 8 sides. Timing cover may also be leaking,
but is hard to tell from where I was spraying (could be false reading
from valve cover overlap). Will buy micro size extension hose and
fresh can of carb cleaner tomorrow to better test tomorrow.

If my R30 re-engine has valve and timing cover gaskets, they must be
paper thin, and apparently work just as well. Is this standard
material? Don't want to order replacements and get paper in the mail.

What material are vendor gaskets made of? Am not a big fan of cork,
but would take it over paper. Has anyone found source of THICK valve
and timing cover gaskets?

Bill Robertson


Message: 14
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 02:47:30 -0000
From: "John Elgersma" <>
Subject: Re: Roof seal replacement

Under the supervision and advice of club members, I will put this 
job on hold until a club tech session at the end of the month. Maybe 
with some extra help it might just get done properly.
Thanks for the info Christian!
A similar inquiry helped out to get the procedure down for this 
replacement but it did not mention anything about closing the door 
for putting the new seal in place.


Message: 15
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 02:56:01 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: No Fuel after distributor

Next time you're buying from John Hervey, pick up an extra 8mm fuel
distributor banjo. Will let you make a test line (just run some
regular fuel hose to a coke bottle outside the car) to ensure fuel
leaves the distributor towards the injectors.

Bill Robertson


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:12:16 EDT
Subject: Re: right side light gremlin(s) FIXED!!!

thanks for all the help...i got some emails on the side as well as help from 
some other people. Walt in florida also let me know that he suspected the 
number 8 fuse.....The strange thing is i looked at the 8 fuse earlier and it 
looked okay...I decided to replace it anyway after getting some responces and 
now it all works. Also, my a/c panel bypass works now too.

thanks to everyone for helping...the moral here is to not look at your fuses 
and assume they are working. Some say replace all fuses when you buy the car 
so you know they are all working....I have to agree its cheap electrical 

Mike C

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 17
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 03:33:31 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: 3 sensors

Switch closest to O ring is Lamda rich mixture trip. Should be closed
when water is cold.

I believe switch closest to pump is idle motor ECU fast idle trip
(don't have one of those). Ask someone with intact idle speed system
to put an ice pick light on terminals 8 & 9 of ECU to tell if open or
closed cold.

Note water temp gauge sender is in block itself, just a bit closer to
rear of engine.

Bill Robertson

>--- In, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> There are 3 sensors attached to the water pipe under the intake and
before i put the engine back together i want to make sure these sensors are operating correctly so how do i test each sensor to make sure it is operating correctly? I have a new vacuum sensor so i just need to know how to test the
other 2 electric sensors.
> Mark
> 6683


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