From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1516
Date: Friday, May 23, 2003 7:58 AM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. re: Odd side stripes
From: "Toscano" <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

2. Central MA car for sale/back on the list
From: "Toscano" <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

3. Front noises
From: "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. delorean is a complex machine
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: DeLorean Financing
From: "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com>

6. DeLorean owners in Portlant/Beaverton OR.
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: DeLorean Financing
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>

8. Re: DeLorean Financing
From: Sean Mulligan <sean_mulligan_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Alternators...
From: Sonny V <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: Poor sad Delorean on Ebay_2415873039
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>

11. Re: DeLorean Financing
From: "gullwingmagazine" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>

12. Re: DeLorean Financing
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

13. The DOD
From: "docbytes" <docbytes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. Re: Parts for a sad ebay DMC-12
From: "henryparticelli" <Stockcar99h_at_dml_aol.com>

15. Re: Alternator time for me.
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

16. Delorean Car Show Magazine
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Sad DeLorean & new owners
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: delorean is a complex machine
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

19. Dust shields ?
From: "vanisland03" <vjca_at_dml_telus.net>

20. Re: DMC wiring corrections
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

21. DMC parts
From: "ensfield" <ensfield_at_dml_chartermi.net>

22. Re: Dust shields ?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

23. RE: Anyone in the PA area?!
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

24. Re: Parts for a sad ebay DMC-12
From: "supremeadmiralsenn" <StadnickAd_at_dml_usa.irene.net>

25. sad De Lorean on Ebay...
From: "timnagin" <timnagin_at_dml_mindspring.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:54:35 -0400
From: "Toscano" <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Odd side stripes

Interesting thread...I hadn't seent hat auction yet.

Speaking of unusual striping, I knew a fellow who owned VIN 1650, an '81,
about six years ago. It had adhesive (?) stripes that the owner swore were
factory-applied. I place the question mark after the word adhesive because
honestly they were either very thin decals or actually painted on. Anyhow,
they appeared to be painted on, and ran just above the wheel wells down the
natural outer edge of the car, for lack of a better description. A black
line on top and bottom with a grey in the middle and DMC logo on each door.

Anyone know the story on those? I have never seen another car with them and
I've been to several shows and own all the DMC books I know of and still
nothing.




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:57:35 -0400
From: "Toscano" <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Central MA car for sale/back on the list

Greetings...
It's been a while since I was able to access my email due to military travel, but I am back and sadly am no longer a DMC owner. But I'd like to get another car ASAP.

A gentleman at my local service station said there is a car for sale somewhere in Central Massachusetts (my area), possibly the west side of Worcester. Anyone know of this car? And if you do, could you point me to somewhere it might be listed for sale or on display? I have checked local newspapers (but not this week's WantAd) and the local collector clubs but nobody knows anything.

Any help is appreciated...thanks!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:18:35 -0000
From: "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Front noises

Dear List,
  Over the last few days my car has been making this really annoying 
humming noise. The noise is not there when I am starting up but 
continues when I am driving. The gear shift vibrates and the noise 
sounds like bees are humming around in the front. Is this a cooling 
fan and how can I fix it?
   Thanks,
     Kramer
      #10610




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:44:49 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: delorean is a complex machine

In a message dated 5/22/2003 4:50:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
louie_at_dml_delorean.com writes:

> The DeLorean is NOTHING at all like a good old simple American muscle car 
> for the '60s or '70s. They're overly complex and EXTREMELY fickle little 
> machines.

I would beg to differ with this a bit

Although it is different it is far less complex than a lot of other cars.  I 
am restoring a Jaguar and that is far more time consuming, expensive and 
complicated than the DeLorean.  In addition I recently disassembled and 
reassembled 2 DeLoreans and in one case in Chicago fired up a car that had 
been sitting for 5 years and it started on the first turn of the key and ran 
smoothe.  My Jag never cooperated that nicely and after 4 years of on again 
off again restoration is still  not running (mainly due to time)

In restoring cars the DeLorean because of the plastic an Stainless take out 
one of the most time consuming parts of the restoration (body work) 
As long as the frame is solid the work to restore the rest is mainly a good 
cleanup and polish.

As far a sthe engine goes I have seen many messed up DeLoreans mainly by 
shops that don't know what they are doing.  Recently I took a car considered 
to be a basket case to Dave Bauerle and in a matter of a few hours he put 
back all the vacuum hoses and took off all the bypasses and turned the key 
and it ran perfectly.

Your best bet it to put it back the way it belongs if it doesn't work find 
out what was missed because it does work if everything is right and if you 
prepare properly.

I find it interesting and can usually troubleshoot or can explain the problem 
well enough to one of the service centers to fix it.

I had a wire harness problem (my own fault for it in the first place) and Don 
Steger figured it out over the phone in minutes.  

Our car may not be a 60's muscke car with an engine attached to a start 
switch but it is nowhere near as complicated as some of the other cars out 
there.

Ken
vin16684
restored concours entry 3720
restored 1880



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:15:46 -0000
From: "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financing

Here is my 2 cents...
My insurance is with State Farm here in Orlando, and they financed my 
D no questions asked and site unseen...They are known for financing 
colletor and specialty cars.  Banks in my area would touch it or they 
wanted 19% interest (and my beacon is very high).   Like the previous 
postings have said it is because of the age of the car and the fact 
that the company isn't around etc.

Michael
Vin #2944

[duplicate quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DeLorean owners in Portlant/Beaverton OR.

Hi,

I will be traveling on business in mid June to the
Portland Oregon area.

Any car shows or DMC events planned?  

Thanks



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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:02:31 -0000
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financing

Try going to a Credit Union Instead of a bank Many financial 
institutions consult the National Automobile 
Dealers Association to determine the amount they are willing to lend 
for a vehicle. Going by the "average low" According to the N.A.D.A. 
Appraisal Guides (www.nadaguides.com) my credit union is willing to 
lend as much as $9,050 toward the purchase of a DeLorean.
1981-83 DeLorean DMC-12 GULLWING 2 Door Sports Coupe
MODELS PROFESSIONALLY RESTORED OR REFURBISHED BY DELOREAN MOTOR 
COMPANY MAY BRING A CONSIDERABLE PREMIUM (UP TO 30%) OVER VALUES 
LISTED.
MSRP Original Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price when new:
MY1981-$27,500 - MY1982-$29,825 - MY1983-$34,000
81-83 Low Retail $9,050 - Average Retail $16,600 - High Retail $26,700

Low Retail Value - This vehicle would be in mechanically functional 
condition, needing only minor reconditioning. The exterior paint, 
trim, and interior would show normal wear, needing only minor 
reconditioning. May also be a deteriorated restoration or a very poor 
amateur restoration. Mostly usable "as-is". Note: This value does 
not represent a "parts car".

Average Retail Value - This vehicle would be in good condition 
overall. It could be an older restoration or a well-maintained 
original vehicle. Completely operable. The exterior paint, trim, and 
mechanics are presentable and serviceable inside and out. A "20-
footer".

High Retail Value - This vehicle would be in excellent condition 
overall. It could be a completely restored or an extremely well 
maintained original vehicle showing very minimal wear. The exterior 
paint, trim, and mechanics are not in need of reconditioning. The 
interior would be in excellent condition. Note: This value does not 
represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.

* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be 
in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse 
judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-
regulated facility.

[duplicate quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sean Mulligan <sean_mulligan_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financing

Darin,

I got my loan through a local credit union.  They seem
to be a lot better on taking risks on local residents.
 I went through every bank in my town (about 8), most
loan officers didn't even know what a DeLorean was. 
They kept asking me if it was a GM car.  Oh well.

My advice is credit union definately.  The VP at mine
knew what a DeLorean was! (how amazing) and told me
he'd give me a loan on it if he could get a ride.  
BTW - I was 18 at the time and had no credit either.

Good luck!

-Sean Mulligan
 vin #10054 (FLUXING)

[duplicate quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sonny V <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternators...

Amzing the responses I received in private email about
my alternator questions. Makes me wonder why more
people don't post to the DML directly...it seems a lot
of good technical information as well as "buyer
beware" information is only passed along "off-list".
That's a shame.

Based on that information, I've decided to go with the
one from DMCH over Grady. Price was the deciding
factor $295 vs $360 for a new 105amp "bolt-on". I got
SEVERAL emails about failures with Hervey's
alternators and while all were pleased with his
service and warranty, I'd really prefer not to have to
deal with this more than once. While removal and
replacement is not a huge chore, if I were stuck in
the Arizona desert on a roadtrip, I wouldn't relish
the idea of doing this on the side of the road or in a
parking lot.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Sonny



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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:05:56 -0000
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Poor sad Delorean on Ebay_2415873039

Anyone bidding on this car might want to check out Project Vixen 
(www.projectvixen.com/index.htm) and e-mail Dave Stragand to get an 
approximation of what you will be going through in reviving this 
DeLorean.  Vixen had the benefit of including more parts than the car 
on ebay, but most certainly in regards to DeLoreans, if you claim 
ignorance now, you will boast genius later if you actually can 
complete this car.

According to sources at DMCH, it takes a lot to make a DeLorean go to 
scrap or parts, and it seems that this DeLorean was use for parts 
long before its time had come (usually a frame that has turned to 
dust, but there are newer, better replacements for frames too).

This is not a parts car (anymore).  It has a valid (not salvaged 
title), the underbody is intact, its frame has minor rust, 
replacement crumple tubes are available, and all the panels can be 
refinished (which is why Mr. DeLorean insisted on using bare 
stainless steel instead of painted panels).  I have not heard if the 
torson bars are intact, and the pictures sent to me do not show them, 
so keep your fingers crossed on that.

I have heard that whomever ends up with this car will end up "putting 
more into it than what it is worth".  If you are worried about resale 
value, go buy a Toyota.  A DeLorean is a purchase of passion.  There 
are newer, faster, better performing cars available today, but none 
of them have that "special something" that the DeLorean has.

The revitalization of this DeLorean will run into many thousands of 
dollars (see Project Vixen), and will appear to be a big pile of 
parts to the untrained eye.  If you have the money, time, ability, 
space to work, and you are willing to sleep on the couch or put your 
relationship at risk for having a DeLorean-Shaped "junk pile" in the 
driveway or garage or backyard, then go for it.  Asses your situation 
and ask yourself if you really are capable of taking on a project 
such as this.

In my case, I have neither the money, time, ability, or space to even 
think about bidding on this car, and I have too many unfinished 
projects taking up space in my driveway, garage, and backyard.  I 
would like to remain married and sleeping in the bed, but I wish 
anyone who tackles this project success and please keep the DML 
updated on your progress.

Thank you,
Ben Ferguson
Member of the Board of Directors - American Hydrogen Association 
(www.clean-air.org)
Member - Arizona DeLorean Club (www.az-d.org)
captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Elgersma" <delorean_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> For all of us that truly believe that not any Delorean should be a 
> parts car and all are really up for restoration, you might just 
> think again because when I say this car on Ebay, I really changed 
my 
> mind that all Deloreans are restoration projects. This is one of 
> those cars that will challenge you from the ground up. Anyone with 
> lots of cash to rebuild this car?? Not me!
> Found at:   
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=31830&item=2415873039
> 
> Keep an eye on this car when it reaches closing time on bids!
> 
> JohnE.




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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:31:07 -0000
From: "gullwingmagazine" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financing

You might want to try a credit union.  Some of them do collectable 
car loans and offer very good rates.  You will probably need to have 
the car appraised to get the loan and they may require a downpayment 
from you (10%).  I dont where in Missouri you are located, but if you 
wish to contact me off list, I can direct you to one place I know of 
that does these type of loans.

Fellow Missourian,

Ron

Gullwing Magazine
gullwingmagazine(at)juno.com

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Darin Wolf" <son_darin_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> It would seem I have run into a minor position here in the good old 
> state of Missouri.  I want to be able to get a loan on a DeLorean 
> that just happens to be sitting in a suitable location.  There is 
> only one problem.
> 
> What I want to know, is why it is that I can get financing on a 
> newer vehicle and yet it seems no one here can get loans on one of 
> these cars.  It would seem that the bank is rather reluctant to 
help 
> in this situation.  I wonder how many of you out there have run 
into 
> this kind of situation.  What did you have to do to get around to 
it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Daemon Wolf.




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:10:02 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financing

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> The reason most banks are reluctant to finance a Delorean is that 
they
> wouldn't know what to do with it if they had to reposses it. On more
> modern cars they are more comfortable with it if they had to take it
> back.

I've been given that reason in the past, although it's not one that 
I'm willing to buy into. Manheim Auto Auctions moves many cars around 
the country for dealers to trade them, and move vehicles to more 
popular areas where they can get a higher price for them. Once upon a 
time though, Manheim used to allow free searches on vehicles in their 
national database (although they wouldn't disclose the 
location/contact info to non-members), and there were always a couple 
of DeLoreans in their system. The numbers may have been low, but they 
would fluctuate showing some type of activity showing that they were 
indeed moving the cars around. A good example of this would be to try 
and run a Carfax report on old cars that you've traded in to dealers 
in the past. Car's that I've owned have gone from Vegas, and ended up 
in places such as Fresno, and even Idaho. And all have title 
transfers on them associated with auction companies. So yes, 
DeLoreans do indeed get resold on a regular basis.

So in the end, a lender refusing to loan out money on a car simply 
because they wouldn't know what to do with it, or even what I was 
told directly from a loan officer, "We wouldn't be able to resell the 
car" is total BS. They do indeed know what to do with vehicles. But 
when it comes to reselling a car that may need a bit extra foot work, 
they won't touch it. The most honest answer that I ever got from a 
loan officer made sense, and really cleared things up. He said that 
while they could resell the car, they would only do so thru 
conventional means. Typicly, this means trying to place a local ad 
for the car to have someone buy it outright, or to take over the 
payments. He said that while it is possible to sell it thru an 
auction (and Vegas hosts quite a few classic auto auctions on a 
regular basis here), the bank didn't want to do that, as auctions 
cost money, and they want to reduce their losses as much as possible. 
On top of that, they wouldn't know what type of auction to send the 
car to to exploit the most money out of it. So rather than research 
specialty cars, the bank would rather just stick with 
financing/reselling what they know, and judges all car values based 
upon deappriciation from MSRP, and not "special interest". Therefore, 
they wouldn't finance anything over 7 years old. A consoling story 
that the guy tried to give me (although it didn't help) was that I 
wasn't alone. He had people come in before attempting to finance 
exotics, and even classic American cars such as Corvettes and the 
like, and denied those too for the same reason. And according to him, 
I took the news allot better than they did. Of course most were home 
owners, and simply took out credit lines against their houses to get 
the cash.

Your best bet is to save up to get the car. Financing a D is quite 
difficult. Certain Credit Unions may be more flexable, but that's not 
a guarantee. Try checking the archives for full details.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:33:01 -0000
From: "docbytes" <docbytes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: The DOD

Hello, I just bought my first Delorean Vin# 1927.  I decided I wanted 
to be in the DOD and recieve it, it's been almost 3weeks, when can I 
see the DOD?

Andrew
DoC ByTeS




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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:42:22 -0000
From: "henryparticelli" <Stockcar99h_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Parts for a sad ebay DMC-12

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "supremeadmiralsenn" 
> <StadnickAd_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> > yes, I know i shouldn't buy a car like this without having some 
> > knowledge. But i figure between my dad (who restored a 1972 
> Chevelle 
> > Malibu) and this list, I can get theinfo i need to fix it. Yes it 
> > will be time-consuming, yes it will be expensive. I am prepared 
to 
> > put in the time and money to get this car back to at least okay 
> > conditiona nd maybe a full restore a couple years down the line. 
> > Thanks for all your input, but I just wanted the people with 
these 
> > parts that i need to answer, not opinions.
> 
> 
> Just remember the $20.000 rule,when it comes time to buy a 
> Delorean,whatever you pay for it,is the difference,between,what it 
> cost to buy,and what it will COST YOU to finish this car,meaning 
> that,if you pay for example $2500.00 for this car it will cost you 
AT 
> least $17,500 or MORE (not including labor) to complete this 
car.Hope 
> this puts some understanding,into your head before you get into 
this 
> project. 
> 
> Just think about this ONE question before you decide to buy this 
car:
> WHY DID the last person restoring,this Delorean GIVE UP on this 
car? 
> Something to think about.
> 
> Claude
> 00570

Some great advice from a lot of very knowledgeable people. I have the 
answer to the last question. It doesn't change the fact that it needs 
a ton of money and work but the last person gave up because they 
passed on. I bought this car as a package of three that came from a 
very elderly lady. Her husband bought the three of them for her. Two 
were really nice drivers, and this third one was his next project in 
the works. Again, with all due respect, this does not change the fact 
that it is a huge undertaking to put this car back on the road boith 
financially and physically. Great advice by all! Sincerely, 

Poor old DMC owner from ebay
R.Henry




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:49:03 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Alternator time for me.

Like Erik, I've also got John Hervey's high-output alternator and it's
working great.  I take long trips with 100% confidence, but I got the
big alternator because I spend a lot of time sitting in city traffic
with the A/C running.  At times like that I really appreaciate those
extra amps.

Of course I did not install it myself.  The alternator, like all parts
on my DeLorean, will probably last forever as long as I never try to
work on it.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280




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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:49:41 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Delorean Car Show Magazine

I know it has been covered before, but I must say that I am very 
impressed by the new magazine!  Ken, you did a great job on this!  I 
received my two copies yesterday in the mail.  I haven't been able 
to put them down since.  Excellent articles!  After reading some of 
the readers articles it makes me feel better that I'm not the only 
Delorean freak out there that is on constant lookout for D's on the 
road, or anything related to the car.  You know you are a fanatic 
when you can spot a Delorean 200 feet away in the dark just by its 
headlights.  
Great magazine Ken!  I can't wait for the third installment.

Erik Geerdink




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sad DeLorean & new owners

I believe that this car is restorable. It looks really
bad at the moment, but I hold strong to my theory that
if you dissmantel any D they will all look the same
(speaking from expierence here folks) Right now I have
more "parts" then "car" No matter where you go in my
garage or house your going to find something stamped
with the DMC logo. One thing I have realized is this,
The DeLorean is a complex machine yes, but it is
comprised of nothing more then parts and when those
parts are removed, cleaned, restored or replaced the
whole can and will be as it was. When you take on a
project you cannot look at the whole picture. I have
broken mine down to certain stages. such as frame
restoration, then engine and trans, then electrical,
body panels, cosmetics and on and on. Small endevers
are easier then larger ones. Break it down then tear
it down. I'm still looking for the defintion of a
"parts car" and from what I saw of this sad D it is
NOT a parts car. But then again who ever wins it may
have a different opinion. Lets just hope she finds a
loveing home with someone that has more desire of the
dream then the old mighty buck.

Todd
Vin 5386
--- Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com> wrote:
> Well, I just want to warn you... a DeLorean is no
> '72 Chevelle. My Dad has restored his '69 Mustang
> from the ground up all by his self, and he was a
> mechanic all during the '70s, but my DeLorean still
> completely baffles him. The DeLorean is NOTHING at
> all like a good old simple American muscle car for
> the '60s or '70s. They're overly complex and
> EXTREMELY fickle little machines. Most car repair
> shops won't even hear what I have to say after I
> tell them I have a DeLorean. I really think that if
> this car were to be brought back to life (something
> that seems out of the realm of possibility to me),
> it should be done by someone who knows *DeLoreans*
> inside and out, and all of their oddities. 
> 
> On the other hand... it'd give you hands on
> experience with DeLoreans... and by the time you're
> finished with it (if you DO get that far...) you too
> will D's better than almost anyone. This obviously
> isn't a car you can beat the $20k rule with (price
> of car + repairs = $20,000), so anyone who would
> take this on should *only* do it for the love of the
> process. I'd be willing to bet one could build a
> DeLorean from completely NOS parts for cheaper than
> restoring the parts that are left on this one...
> LOL. I know you weren't asking for opinions on the
> subject... but it sounds to me like you have no idea
> what you're getting yourself into. If you don't know
> anything about DeLoreans... take a year or two to
> read the DML, go to DeLorean events, and meet as
> many DeLorean owners as you possibly can. If you're
> willing to spend $6,000-$10,000 you'll get a much
> better project car... at least one that's complete,
> and likely running.
> 
> Louie Golden
> VIN 10115



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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:55:34 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: delorean is a complex machine

Caveat: I am very fond of my DeLo. Like all cars in the stable, is
unavailable for resale until executor closes my estate. That said:

Louie may be picking up on several comparision issues:

DeLo interior and fittings are less substantial than domestics 10
years earlier. Feel somewhat "cheap" in comparison. 

PRV itself has significant access issues compared to older domestic
blocks. Is also more sensitive to vacuum leaks, fuel system anomolies,
etc. DeLo engine compartment is cramped compared to a Javelin or AMX
(hey, it's my post, I get to pick the comparison muscle cars).  

Third party mechanics are generally more reluctant to touch a DeLo
than a domestic. Yes, the technology is fairly conventional (torsion
bars notwithstanding), but they don't seem willing to find out. Must
be frustrating when their services are needed.

Cost of DeLo parts is undeniably higher than older domestic parts.
Much higher. (OEM spec, not performance). I maintain 4 70's Lincolns
for cost of 1 DeLorean. Are also no junkyard options. 

Welded up DeLorean frame can't touch a good old fashioned cast frame
(careful with this one -- Mustangs are unibody. All AMC's are unibody.
Even suicide door Lincolns are unibody). DeLo body is fairly
impervious to the elements, but frame is not.

Overall cost of DeLo ownership is higher than older domestics. Initial
purchase is higher. Insurance and property taxes are higher. Resto
costs are higher. Even a really nice domestic can cut $20,000 rule 1/2
to 2/3.

I recommend DeLorean ownership. Is especially satisfying to drive an
honest to goodness historical piece. Nevertheless, are many times I
look its little silver roof to the Lincolns in the background and say
to myself "thank God for Ford Motor Company".

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, kKoncelik_at_dml_a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/22/2003 4:50:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> louie_at_dml_d... writes:
> 
> > The DeLorean is NOTHING at all like a good old simple American
muscle car 
> > for the '60s or '70s. They're overly complex and EXTREMELY fickle
little 
> > machines.
> 
> I would beg to differ with this a bit
> 
> Although it is different it is far less complex than a lot of other
cars.  I 
> am restoring a Jaguar and that is far more time consuming, expensive
and 
> complicated than the DeLorean.  In addition I recently disassembled and 
> reassembled 2 DeLoreans and in one case in Chicago fired up a car
that had 
> been sitting for 5 years and it started on the first turn of the key
and ran 
> smoothe.  My Jag never cooperated that nicely and after 4 years of
on again 
> off again restoration is still  not running (mainly due to time)
> 
> In restoring cars the DeLorean because of the plastic an Stainless
take out 
> one of the most time consuming parts of the restoration (body work) 
> As long as the frame is solid the work to restore the rest is mainly
a good 
> cleanup and polish.
> 
> As far a sthe engine goes I have seen many messed up DeLoreans
mainly by 
> shops that don't know what they are doing.  Recently I took a car
considered 
> to be a basket case to Dave Bauerle and in a matter of a few hours
he put 
> back all the vacuum hoses and took off all the bypasses and turned
the key 
> and it ran perfectly.
> 
> Your best bet it to put it back the way it belongs if it doesn't
work find 
> out what was missed because it does work if everything is right and
if you 
> prepare properly.
> 
> I find it interesting and can usually troubleshoot or can explain
the problem 
> well enough to one of the service centers to fix it.
> 
> I had a wire harness problem (my own fault for it in the first
place) and Don 
> Steger figured it out over the phone in minutes.  
> 
> Our car may not be a 60's muscke car with an engine attached to a start 
> switch but it is nowhere near as complicated as some of the other
cars out 
> there.
> 
> Ken
> vin16684
> restored concours entry 3720
> restored 1880
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:59:42 -0000
From: "vanisland03" <vjca_at_dml_telus.net>
Subject: Dust shields ?

What is the purpose of the 2 aluminum pans that bolt under the 
battery and storeage compartments and clip to the frame. I have them 
off now due to my frame rebuild. Question is do they have to go back 
on and what purpose do they provide other than getting in the way ?
Thanks Vic
#1794




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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 01:10:03 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: DMC wiring corrections

On Wed, 21 May 2003 13:00:43 -0700 (PDT),
jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:

> Soon after buying the car I noticed that the top half
> of the origional fusebox (top half) had melted
[snip]
> 13:
> This is the problem.  I have an Automatic and I know
> 13 is for the trani.  Tech guide provides no color
> code for 13.  There are 2 slots left on the fuse rack
> 
> Green<-------->Blue white

THIS is #13 according to the Schematic.

> Brown<-------->Green Purple

Looks like fuse #18 to me...
Brake lights fused _at_dml_ 20A
As far as I can see that's the ONLY fuse with those colors.

Can be a bit confusing, because the Brake Lights can be powered
after ignition or allways hot, depending on your car...

In the Schematic they're allways hot, but on my car (VIN#05141)
the lights only work with the ignition on...

Good luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

DMC-12 "Dagger" since Sep. 2000
100NX "Saphire" since Nov. 2002

------------------------------





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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:05:31 -0400
From: "ensfield" <ensfield_at_dml_chartermi.net>
Subject: DMC parts

I'm having a garage sale Sunday in Kalamazoo,MI...

    pair grey DMC seats in good condition, slight cracking on driver's side

  new in box  DMC rear sway bar kit..

  wiring diagram

email me for directions if interested: ensfield_at_dml_chartermi.net

                         Thanks,
                         Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 01:34:47 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Dust shields ?

The aluminum shields are meant to keep dirt and rocks out of the area.
The car can be driven without them but for safety purposes it is best
if they are put back on. The little bolts tend to break off when you
remove them making them harder to remove and reinstall. P. J. Grady
sells a metal strip with 3 studs attached so it is easy to remove and
replace without taking the battery out or removing the carpet in the
"vault".
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "vanisland03" <vjca_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> What is the purpose of the 2 aluminum pans that bolt under the 
> battery and storeage compartments and clip to the frame. I have them 
> off now due to my frame rebuild. Question is do they have to go back 
> on and what purpose do they provide other than getting in the way ?
> Thanks Vic
> #1794




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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:06:52 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: RE: Anyone in the PA area?!

Ill go, but I am going away for the holiday weekend wont be back till
tuesday

Kevin Abato
NJ
9973-229-0760 (Cell)

-----Original Message-----
From: deloreanz [mailto:deloreanz_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 12:51 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Anyone in the PA area?!


> Hey everyone, I'm going to go look at a Delorean(a 2nd time) that I 
> am considering buying and would really appriciate a pretty 
> knowledgeable person to come and help me evaluate more in depth.  I 
> live near Allentown PA(about half way up the state from Philadelphia, 
> and the car is near Hanover PA(near the southern border, south of 
> Harrisburg) The trip for me is 2 hours.  Please contact me ASAP if 
> you or someone you know could meet me there or accompany me there, I 
> would be eternally grateful!  Thanks,



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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 01:34:53 -0000
From: "supremeadmiralsenn" <StadnickAd_at_dml_usa.irene.net>
Subject: Re: Parts for a sad ebay DMC-12

You know, I could have sworn that i specifically said i didn't want 
any more advice, just people who have the parts i'll need to fix this 
car. Yes, I said i was not very knowledgable about De Loreans, but i 
didn't say i was stupid. I am not expecting this to be a fast easy 
project. I know it will be time-consuming and expensive. For those 
who do not have thie information that I do, the car is unfinished 
because the previous owner has passed away. The car has a clean 
title. It has been stored in a barn for years until its current owner 
got it, and he has kept it under a waterproof car cover. That said, I 
once again ask for anybody with the parts I will need to post here or 
contact me off-list. I don't mean to be rude, but this is the 3rd or 
4th time i've said this. Thanks again..i guess..




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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:07:30 -0400
From: "timnagin" <timnagin_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: sad De Lorean on Ebay...

[MODERATOR NOTE: Please contact Greg by private email for details.  Generally, the DML allows subscribers to tell their own personal stories, and sometimes this has included descriptions of offline conversations.  Unfortunately, we find that more and more we must frown on one-sided reports of conversations that took place outside the DML.  The potential for abuse is simply too great.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]


I haven't posted anything in a very long time and I have been trying to
decide whether or not to announce this on the DML.  After some thought I
feel I need to.  Anyone that is thinking about bidding, or has bid, on this
project car please be cautious.  I have been in contact with this person for
awhile and helped them quite a bit, as did other people.

This person had given me their word on a few things that ended up not being
honored. I personally feel like I, and other people, have been used.  I have
pulled out of it and have no more interest in this.

I am only letting everyone know as a 'buyer beware' courtesy.  Other people
who were involved please feel free to chime in.

Greg




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