From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1521
Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 3:59 PM

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There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. AC conversion again!
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. RE: Vacuum leak solved...
From: "Scott Gardner" <gardners14_at_dml_cox.net>

3. Re: sad De Lorean on Ebay...
From: "henryparticelli" <Stockcar99h_at_dml_aol.com>

4. Re: AC conversion again!
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. Re: Vacuum leak solved...
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

6. My no start situation...
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

7. Conflicting Advice. Who's right?
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_prodigy.net>

8. hard start
From: "Jonas P" <Delorean3543_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: Vacuum leak solved...
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. RE: hard start
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

11. RE: My no start situation...
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

12. Re: Conflicting Advice. Who's right?
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

13. Re: My no start situation...
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: AC conversion again!

For what must be the 20'th or so time on this list.. 
YOU CANT MIX R12 and R134!  Especially the OIL'S!

If you are switching between freon/oil types and do
not completely FLUSH the old oil out of the system
(there is a specific machine and chemical for this
process.. it is not the same as a regular evacuation),
you will eventually clog the system and destroy the
compressor.  Yea, it will get cold for a year or so...
 but in the long run your looking at expensive
repairs.

There is a new oil out that is compatible with both
R12 and R134, but your 1981-83 system has the old
fashion R12 style.  If you convert it improperly, your
looking for trouble.


--- content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Hopefully will drop as passenger compartment cools
> down. Since we're
> entering A/C season, my R134 methods are written up
> on DMCNEWS website
> for like minded. Generate a lot of controversy among
> R12 purists, but
> the way I figure: if your system isn't putting out
> now, what do you
> have to lose? Only change is freon itself (all
> factory components
> re-used). If you don't like R134 performance, bleed
> it back out and go
> back to R12. Difference is about $120 (to R134's
> benefit)...
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:21:50 -0400
From: "Scott Gardner" <gardners14_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: RE: Vacuum leak solved...

Is 52 degrees the temperature at the vents with the A/C on?  I've only
worked on the A/C systems on a few cars, but that seems pretty high.
What's the ambient temperature where you are?

Scott Gardner

-----Original Message-----
From: content22207 [mailto:brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net] 
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:39 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Vacuum leak solved...

Related note: removed A/C compressor altogether for driver's side
valve cover. Replaced O rings this time (58 cents at the hardware
store -- what WAS I thinking). Vacuumed system and recharged this
afternoon. Holding steady _at_dml_ 35 PSI (low side) and 52 degrees.
Hopefully will drop as passenger compartment cools down. Since we're
entering A/C season, my R134 methods are written up on DMCNEWS website
for like minded. Generate a lot of controversy among R12 purists, but
the way I figure: if your system isn't putting out now, what do you
have to lose? Only change is freon itself (all factory components
re-used). If you don't like R134 performance, bleed it back out and go
back to R12. Difference is about $120 (to R134's benefit)...

Bill Robertson
#5939








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:29:37 -0000
From: "henryparticelli" <Stockcar99h_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: sad De Lorean on Ebay...

( Moderator's comment: This seems to be an unending story that wanders all over the place. I'd think we all would be looking for the best price we could get when selling something and obviously that's what this gentleman is trying to do. If there's been promises made outside this concept then those are things that should be handled between those involved. I'm killing this thread after this post as there doesn't seem to be anything more to be said here that would concern the majority of list subscribers.  Bruce Benson, current moderator. )

I am sad to have to reply to this. True..... Greg, as well as others 
have been a big help with advice. I was hoping to be in a financial 
position to offer this Ebay Delorean at a real good price to him as a 
thank you. At the time Greg was unable to transact such a deal.As the 
days past I was faced with some unbeliveable financial adversity, 
which cause me to see the auction to it's end. So Greg, Again, I 
appologize, I am sorry I can not afford to sell you the car for the 
$1000. you offered. It is clearly at $1825. and should bring twice 
your offer by the end of the auction. At this stage I have not 
figured out how to express my appreciation to all those that have 
helped me, but I can assure you, walking from a much needed $1000. is 
not possible at this time. My only promise was that I would sell it 
to you at a price we could both agree on. I'm sorry $1000. is not in 
my range of affordability. I am VERY greatful for all your advice and 
wish you all the best. 
Most Sincerely, 
Owner of Sad Old Delorean.

Henry




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:29:22 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: AC conversion again!

( Yet another moderator's note: Marc is right in at least one respect, this subject has been in and out of the list for a long time. There have been strong opinons on  both sides of this issue. I think there's enough in the archives to eliminate any need for further argument. If you're considering this swap read the archives and if still in doubt consult your air conditioning shop. Bruce Benson, current moderator ) 


Oh for goodness sake, if you read my practice, I DO flush an R12
system at initial conversion (using A/C compressor itself, which is
particularly convenient for those of us without air compressors).

True, I leave low side loose to keep from flushing oil out (don't want
to lock compressor up while clutch is jumped), but let me think: White
Lincoln is entering 4th summer burning R134 on factory original
compressor with whatever oil Ford filled it with in 1978. Works OK for
me. If it bothers anyone, simply pour oil out of compressor and refill
with whatever tickles your fancy.

BTW: if you examine a pre-packaged R134 conversion kit you'll see they
leave oil in compressor too.

If this is going to be ANOTHER summer of people tied in knots over
R134, I'll just keep quiet. Are plenty of A/C shops more than willing
to play with R12 for a price. I'm doing fleet maintenance, so isn't an
option for me.

Bill Robertson
#5939 (1 of 5 vehicles burning R134)

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> For what must be the 20'th or so time on this list.. 
> YOU CANT MIX R12 and R134!  Especially the OIL'S!
> 
> If you are switching between freon/oil types and do
> not completely FLUSH the old oil out of the system
> (there is a specific machine and chemical for this
> process.. it is not the same as a regular evacuation),
> you will eventually clog the system and destroy the
> compressor.  Yea, it will get cold for a year or so...
>  but in the long run your looking at expensive
> repairs.
> 
> There is a new oil out that is compatible with both
> R12 and R134, but your 1981-83 system has the old
> fashion R12 style.  If you convert it improperly, your
> looking for trouble.
> 
> 
> --- content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Hopefully will drop as passenger compartment cools
> > down. Since we're
> > entering A/C season, my R134 methods are written up
> > on DMCNEWS website
> > for like minded. Generate a lot of controversy among
> > R12 purists, but
> > the way I figure: if your system isn't putting out
> > now, what do you
> > have to lose? Only change is freon itself (all
> > factory components
> > re-used). If you don't like R134 performance, bleed
> > it back out and go
> > back to R12. Difference is about $120 (to R134's
> > benefit)...
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> http://search.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 01:23:06 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum leak solved...

Hopefully moderator will let this post through (answers specific
question):

Car had been sitting in the sun all afternoon -- was probably well
above 100 in there. Didn't leave the driveway because car blocked in
and electric fans start refrigeration cycle OK by themselves (engine
fans on my Lincolns can't do it sitting still). Checked temp on
previous charge about 2 weeks ago -- 42.9 degrees. Not as cold as the
Lincolns, but it is a different system. Will drive DeLo to work
Wednesday and recheck.

Interesting note -- last summer bypassed leaking heater core on my Two
Tone Lincoln. A/C evaporator started icing up like old freezer coils
(don't tell me R134 doesn't get cold!). Would stop air flow completely
within 10-15 minutes. Spent whole trip to/from DC alternating between
A/C and outside vent (to defrost evaporator). Also ended up with glove
box full of water. Guess Lincolns need residual heat from heater core
(don't have an accumulator and orifice tube -- use something called
"throttle suctioning valve". Has to do with Automatic Temperature
Control). Is same charge felt by people who went to Dave Swingle's
South Carolina Door Seminar in March BTW, so obviously new heater core
did the trick.

'Nuff said Re: A/C.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Scott Gardner" <gardners14_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Is 52 degrees the temperature at the vents with the A/C on?  I've only
> worked on the A/C systems on a few cars, but that seems pretty high.
> What's the ambient temperature where you are?
> 
> Scott Gardner
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: content22207 [mailto:brobertson_at_dml_c...] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:39 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Vacuum leak solved...
> 
> Related note: removed A/C compressor altogether for driver's side
> valve cover. Replaced O rings this time (58 cents at the hardware
> store -- what WAS I thinking). Vacuumed system and recharged this
> afternoon. Holding steady _at_dml_ 35 PSI (low side) and 52 degrees.
> Hopefully will drop as passenger compartment cools down. Since we're
> entering A/C season, my R134 methods are written up on DMCNEWS website
> for like minded. Generate a lot of controversy among R12 purists, but
> the way I figure: if your system isn't putting out now, what do you
> have to lose? Only change is freon itself (all factory components
> re-used). If you don't like R134 performance, bleed it back out and go
> back to R12. Difference is about $120 (to R134's benefit)...
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 03:04:34 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: My no start situation...

This is the second time this has happened to me. I parked my car
outside overnight and it rained/misted. Today when I tried to start my
car, it would not start (at least I fixed the roof leaks :-)  ) but
there was gas getting to the motor. This has happened to me before and
I thought the hose in the fuel tank was poping up above the fuelline
so I shook the car, tried to start it again and started. I figured
this because I was low fuel   -This time I am also low fuel but I
checked the hoses in the tank. I know there is fuel getting to the
motor, it is just a matter of flooding it in order to find out. Given
that there is fuel going to the motor, it is obvious that the
electical system is faulty here. I checked over all wires in the
engine compartment, cleaned everything, nothing was wet it seemed. The
alternator is rebuilt with new brushes only a few weeks ago now, so I
know its not that. The car starts/runs fine any other time its resting
in the rain. Now, my question is-does anyone have any advice to
prevent this from happening, is there a point of entry where water can
get to any electronics and cause this that I am just missing? To
clarify, I checked all fuses, all relays, and electical connections
within the engine compartment such as resistor etc. Thank you all very
much.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:45:35 -0400
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_prodigy.net>
Subject: Conflicting Advice. Who's right?

O.K. guys,  I've spent quite a bit of time looking through the archives regarding the correct weight oil to be used in our cars. The overwhelming majority of experts in our midst recommend using 10w-30 under most conditions. Even the majority of Volvo guys say exactly the same thing with regard to the PRV. However, I was cruising through my copy of the DMC Workshop Manual and found a disturbing disclaimer under "Recommended Lubricants, Fluids and Capacities" (Section A:05:01) It states: "THE USE OF 10W-30 MULTIGRADE OIL IS NOT ADVISABLE UNLESS THE TEMPERATURE WARRANTS IT." The average temperature up here in Boston during the summer months can vary from 65 to 95 degrees. They suggest in the manual that the 10w-30 only be used in the event of hard cold weather starting. I've been considering using the 20w-50 synthetic in accordance with their recommendation. Anyone want to shed some light on this?
Thanks,
Rustproof
Vin 1559

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 06:06:30 -0000
From: "Jonas P" <Delorean3543_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: hard start

About a week ago my 1981, auto tranny, vin 3543, with 23,000 miles 
developed a hard start problem when when the engine is cold. It is 
taking as long 3 to 5 minuntes to get her going. Its then takes about 
2 minuntes of warming up befor it is ready to run well. I got this 
car about a year ago after the last owner let it sit for 10 years,(so 
I was told) at that time it had 12,000 miles, this is my daily 
driver. After alot of parts and updates it had the same hard start 
problem it has now. How ever it seemed to "fix its self" so to speak 
after 5 or 6 weeks. Well its back again, a motor head friend of mine 
thinks it is a problem with the mixture and that it is running rich. 
Any input on how to fix this would be great, Thanks in advance
Jonas
vin 3543  




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 02:43:50 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum leak solved...

If the evaporator coil ices up (this goes for a Lincoln too) this
means either you have an undercharge of refrigerent or a valve in the
system is malfunctioning, in either case the suction pressure is
getting too low and the coil freezes the condensate. Another
possability although rare in a car is not enough airflow over the
evaporator coil. This is more likely in a house where the air filter
is really dirty and cutting down the veolcity and volume of air. Since
the coil can't absorb enough heat to keep it from freezing it ices
over. Typically you check for a 20 degree temperature drop over the
coil so if the air entering the coil is 90 degrees you should be able
to measure the air comming out the vent at 70. One of the
disadvantages of converting an R-12 system to 134 is the higher head
pressures and the undersized condensor coil. This translates into
about a 20 % drop in cooling capacity. This subject has been gone over
in the past so you should look in the archives. Some people claim
great success in converting. All of the manufacturers and venders say
bad things can happen, I personally have not seen it yet although it
could still be too soon to tell. There are "drop-in" replacements
available now for a lot less than R-12, you might want to consider
them before trying R-134. Even R-12 shouldn't scare you, even though
it is $60 a pound you only need less than 3 LBS. Just fix all the leaks!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Hopefully moderator will let this post through (answers specific
> question):
> 
> Car had been sitting in the sun all afternoon -- was probably well
> above 100 in there. Didn't leave the driveway because car blocked in
> and electric fans start refrigeration cycle OK by themselves (engine
> fans on my Lincolns can't do it sitting still). Checked temp on
> previous charge about 2 weeks ago -- 42.9 degrees. Not as cold as the
> Lincolns, but it is a different system. Will drive DeLo to work
> Wednesday and recheck.
> 
> Interesting note -- last summer bypassed leaking heater core on my Two
> Tone Lincoln. A/C evaporator started icing up like old freezer coils
> (don't tell me R134 doesn't get cold!). Would stop air flow completely
> within 10-15 minutes. Spent whole trip to/from DC alternating between
> A/C and outside vent (to defrost evaporator). Also ended up with glove
> box full of water. Guess Lincolns need residual heat from heater core
> (don't have an accumulator and orifice tube -- use something called
> "throttle suctioning valve". Has to do with Automatic Temperature
> Control). Is same charge felt by people who went to Dave Swingle's
> South Carolina Door Seminar in March BTW, so obviously new heater core
> did the trick.
> 
> 'Nuff said Re: A/C.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Scott Gardner" <gardners14_at_dml_c...>
wrote:
> > Is 52 degrees the temperature at the vents with the A/C on?  I've only
> > worked on the A/C systems on a few cars, but that seems pretty high.
> > What's the ambient temperature where you are?
> > 
> > Scott Gardner
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: content22207 [mailto:brobertson_at_dml_c...] 
> > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:39 PM
> > To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [DML] Vacuum leak solved...
> > 
> > Related note: removed A/C compressor altogether for driver's side
> > valve cover. Replaced O rings this time (58 cents at the hardware
> > store -- what WAS I thinking). Vacuumed system and recharged this
> > afternoon. Holding steady _at_dml_ 35 PSI (low side) and 52 degrees.
> > Hopefully will drop as passenger compartment cools down. Since we're
> > entering A/C season, my R134 methods are written up on DMCNEWS website
> > for like minded. Generate a lot of controversy among R12 purists, but
> > the way I figure: if your system isn't putting out now, what do you
> > have to lose? Only change is freon itself (all factory components
> > re-used). If you don't like R134 performance, bleed it back out and go
> > back to R12. Difference is about $120 (to R134's benefit)...
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:04:51 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: hard start

Jonas, Check the cold start valve to see if it's firing fuel when your
cranking. If you do it to much ( one or two trys) to start you will flood
the engine. You can take the cold start valve off with a 5mm allen wrench
and put it in a clear glass container and try to start the engine ( just a
bump or two ) and see if it fired any gas. If it didn't then the TTS switch
may be unplugged or bad or the CSV may be bad.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas P [mailto:Delorean3543_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 11:07 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] hard start


About a week ago my 1981, auto tranny, vin 3543, with 23,000 miles
developed a hard start problem when when the engine is cold. It is
taking as long 3 to 5 minuntes to get her going. Its then takes about
2 minuntes of warming up befor it is ready to run well. I got this
car about a year ago after the last owner let it sit for 10 years,(so
I was told) at that time it had 12,000 miles, this is my daily
driver. After alot of parts and updates it had the same hard start
problem it has now. How ever it seemed to "fix its self" so to speak
after 5 or 6 weeks. Well its back again, a motor head friend of mine
thinks it is a problem with the mixture and that it is running rich.
Any input on how to fix this would be great, Thanks in advance
Jonas
vin 3543



To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:12:15 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: My no start situation...

Most likely the rain is causing sweat or perspiration in the distributor cap
and that is what is making it hard to start. Also check the plug wells for
water.
If you think is fuel related, then the injectors or cold start valve may be
leaking and flooding down the engine. Note, Fuel pumps have to prime up to
be able to pump. Low fuel in the tank may have an effect on the fuel pump
priming.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: TalksToGod [mailto:5n-_at_dml_gmx.net]
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:05 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] My no start situation...


This is the second time this has happened to me. I parked my car
outside overnight and it rained/misted. Today when I tried to start my
car, it would not start (at least I fixed the roof leaks :-)  ) but
there was gas getting to the motor. This has happened to me before and
I thought the hose in the fuel tank was poping up above the fuelline
so I shook the car, tried to start it again and started. I figured
this because I was low fuel   -This time I am also low fuel but I
checked the hoses in the tank. I know there is fuel getting to the
motor, it is just a matter of flooding it in order to find out. Given
that there is fuel going to the motor, it is obvious that the
electical system is faulty here. I checked over all wires in the
engine compartment, cleaned everything, nothing was wet it seemed. The
alternator is rebuilt with new brushes only a few weeks ago now, so I
know its not that. The car starts/runs fine any other time its resting
in the rain. Now, my question is-does anyone have any advice to
prevent this from happening, is there a point of entry where water can
get to any electronics and cause this that I am just missing? To
clarify, I checked all fuses, all relays, and electical connections
within the engine compartment such as resistor etc. Thank you all very
much.



To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:46:34 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Conflicting Advice. Who's right?

Pretty much, the manual states to use whichever oil wieght nessisary 
depending upon the temperature in your area. That is the absolute 
best answer that anyone can give you. However, I can tell you *NOT* 
to use 20w50 in your area. The manual says that it's "Acceptable" to 
use it if the temperature is constantly above 60F. But that is 
only "acceptable", and not the best choice. I would only reccomend 
using 20w50 in temperatures that are constanly above 90F both day 
AND night! When the temp cools down to below 90 in the mornings here, 
my engine is noticeably a bit more hesitant to start. Below 80F, and 
the motor practily strains.

Due to the extreme climate I live in, and the fact that it doesn't 
snow here (no winter storage), I've experimented quite a bit with 
various motor oils the past 3 years that I've owned my car. And even 
now, I never run the same weight oil in my motor for more than 2 oil 
changes, because of the enviornment here.

So, if you're asking for what type of oil to use (and believe me, you 
are going to get many more answers than you ever wished for), the 
only person who can really decide that is you. People can really only 
give reccomendations. Knowing the temperature in you area, the only 
other variable here is going to be you. So what you'll need to do is 
answer this question honestly: How hard do you drive your car? If 
it's conserative, low revs, then I'd reccomend a quality 10w40. If 
you're a lead-foot like me, and drive the car hard, and rev it up 
allot, then for your area, a great compromise is going to be 15w40. 
I've found that it's a great all-around oil. Flows quite easily when 
50F, and holds up great when cruising around in the high 90's+.

But even then, my reccomdation is just that. The results that I have 
found were on my engine, so your's may have a totally different 
temperment. If nothing else, try experimenting with various weight 
oils (within manufacturer guidelines) to see which one(s) you prefer. 
You may find that another type of weight runs better. Expreience is 
better than advice, although manufacturer reccomendations are best. 
Using an oil type just because someone says to isn't always the best 
idea. I've had people tell me to use 20w50 in a Ford Explorer motor 
which clearly states in both the manual, and on the filler cap 5w30 
only! Yes, even the people behind the counter at the auto parts store!

And as far as reccomendations go for brands, that's a whole new 
discussion. You'll find that people are even more religous about the 
brand, than the weight! Me personally? I use regular Castrol. I don't 
know anything about Synthetic brands, but I can tell you to stay away 
from "Synthetic Blends". The extra $ is wasted. It's just regular 
oil, with a minute amount of Synthetic mixed in. It's like distilling 
tap water, and then pouring a bit of distilled water into a glass of 
tap water, and then calling it a "distilled blend". A total waste!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> O.K. guys,  I've spent quite a bit of time looking through the 
archives regarding the correct weight oil to be used in our cars. The 
overwhelming majority of experts in our midst recommend using 10w-30 
under most conditions. Even the majority of Volvo guys say exactly 
the same thing with regard to the PRV. However, I was cruising 
through my copy of the DMC Workshop Manual and found a disturbing 
disclaimer under "Recommended Lubricants, Fluids and Capacities" 
(Section A:05:01) It states: "THE USE OF 10W-30 MULTIGRADE OIL IS NOT 
ADVISABLE UNLESS THE TEMPERATURE WARRANTS IT." The average 
temperature up here in Boston during the summer months can vary from 
65 to 95 degrees. They suggest in the manual that the 10w-30 only be 
used in the event of hard cold weather starting. I've been 
considering using the 20w-50 synthetic in accordance with their 
recommendation. Anyone want to shed some light on this?
> Thanks,
> Rustproof
> Vin 1559
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:39:18 -0500
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: My no start situation...

I too am having a "cantankerous-start" problem when wet or even very humid, so I will be
interested in your eventual solution.

One problem I have seen on other cars is the plug wires.  If they are very old they may
be leaking current into the nearest ground, a condition that is exaserbated by
moisture.  Try watching your engine run in the dark; if you can see the current arcing
away from the wires then they need replacing.  If they are 20 years old you may want to
replace them regardless.  Of course, that's easier said than done.  :-)



Gus Schlachter
VIN# 4695
Austin, TX



TalksToGod wrote:

> This is the second time this has happened to me. I parked my car
> outside overnight and it rained/misted. Today when I tried to start my
> car, it would not start (at least I fixed the roof leaks :-)  ) but
> there was gas getting to the motor. This has happened to me before and
> I thought the hose in the fuel tank was poping up above the fuelline
> so I shook the car, tried to start it again and started. I figured
> this because I was low fuel   -This time I am also low fuel but I
> checked the hoses in the tank. I know there is fuel getting to the
> motor, it is just a matter of flooding it in order to find out. Given
> that there is fuel going to the motor, it is obvious that the
> electical system is faulty here. I checked over all wires in the
> engine compartment, cleaned everything, nothing was wet it seemed. The
> alternator is rebuilt with new brushes only a few weeks ago now, so I
> know its not that. The car starts/runs fine any other time its resting
> in the rain. Now, my question is-does anyone have any advice to
> prevent this from happening, is there a point of entry where water can
> get to any electronics and cause this that I am just missing? To
> clarify, I checked all fuses, all relays, and electical connections
> within the engine compartment such as resistor etc. Thank you all very
> much.




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