From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1534
Date: Friday, June 06, 2003 12:18 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: current drain
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

2. Re: Delorean Owners Assosiation
From: David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Parts missing/removed from my car at Jag Shop
From: "Albert Siegel" <siegel_at_dml_technologist.com>

4. Bob Dewey passes away May 20
From: Sonny V <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Engine Failure leak isolated (Catastrophic Engine Failure)
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

6. DMCH's New Struts
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

7. Book Work Part II: DMC-H hi-po engine feedback requested
From: "ryanjm10014" <ryanjm_at_dml_cox.net>

8. OČ Sensor Diagnostics
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: Delorean Owners Assosiation
From: "stitsien" <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>

10. Re: Engine Failure leak isolated (Catastrophic Engine Failure)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

11. More Paint Removal
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>

12. Re: Engine Failure leak isolated (Catastrophic Engine Failure)
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:08:13 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: current drain

Mark,

Current drain can occur under many conditions, and like many
other things with a 20+ year old car, can happen at any time.
Not to jinx things, but I had gone over the car you now own,
back in 2000 while doing the initial refurbishing of the car
and I went over it again, briefy, after re-acquiring it last
year, before selling it to you earlier this year.  Granted,
I did not go over everything each time, but its still a lot
more inspection time on that car than most garage queens have
seen in their entire existance.  Some cars look like their
fuse boxes and relays have never been touched sine day one.

I have seen current drain problems on cars that are driven
and serviced regularly, but these drain problems are different
from the "seldom used cars" problems and can often be traced
to a wire with insulation rubbed off, which causes a short in
a place that is usually difficult to see, inspect and in most
cases, difficult to service.

I have been playing with these little silver cars for a while
and I know its not good to tempt the gremlins into making their
way to your electrical system.  I know they have been playing
elsewhere in the car, so don't tempt them to change scenery.

Later,
Rich W.

 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> I really dont understand the drain problem people have. I just 
removed my water pump and
> water hose under the intake to change all of the hoses, o-rings and 
do a tune up and the
> car sat for 4 weeks and started like i shut it off yesterday.
> 
> Mark





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:10:01 -0400
From: David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean Owners Assosiation

This is a reply that I got from Henry Breer, a Director with the DOA. 
This was an e-mail response to my public post on the DML. My feeling
was that only by seeing it directly could you appreciate the tone.
At the time I was trying to contact the DOA I was a member but my
membership for having the article published has expired. My
intention was to point out some areas of improvement, I guess they
don't take criticism well. This e-mail is a telling look at how we
are percieved by the DOA and their attitude to their "membership".
I wonder why he had to respond in RED. Don't be too hard on him
after all everyone is just a "volunteer" and doing this for the
love of Deloreans?

David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

Henry Breer wrote:

>  
>
> David Teitelbaum wrote:
>
>> I have been trying to reach the DOA as per Trevor's suggestion. There
>> is NO contact info except for John Truscott whose phone doesn't answer
>> and there is no message. The DOA website has no contact info ...
>
> David - I guess in your haste to criticize you did not find the 
> listing of the directors at 
> http://www.delorean-owners.org/doa/direct.html which gives links to 
> all of our emails. Some, like mine, are the actual email addresses, 
> others are pass-through mailboxes maintained by our ISP.
>
>>  It seems strange that such a public appearing
>> organization makes itself so hard to contact yet they put themselves
>> foward as the premier owner's organization.
>
> I don't know about 'premier', but certainly the oldest owners 
> organization.  This year we are celebrating our 20th anniversary.  
> That means that for the last 20 years, some of the board members have 
> been attending monthly meetings, gathering information to publish in 
> our magazine, discussing events to stage for our members, wrestling 
> with the problems of finances, insurance, etc. ad nausium.  20 years x 
> 12 meetings/year = 240 meetings (which usually last 3-4 hours on a 
> Sunday afternoon).  Have you devoted over 4 years worth of Sunday 
> afternoons to DeLorean Owners?
>
>> It would seem to me that
>> it is really a California club that is trying to make itself look
>> larger and more important than it really is.
>
> Not only are we a California club, but we are actually a registered 
> California Mutual Assistance Corporation.  We are governed by an 
> elected Board of Directors, conduct our meetings according to Robert's 
> Rules, and file state and federal tax returns.  Seeing that we were 
> successful, others world wide have joined.
>
>> I was only trying to
>> contact them to let them know that I have received a lot of e-mails
>> privately agreeing with me and telling me how they don't like what is
>> happening but they won't come out publicly.
>
> We are not an altruistic group.  We exist to serve our members, not 
> the DeLorean community at large.  We are always happy to receive 
> feedback from our members.  However, we pay no attention to those who 
> are not Association members.
>
>> The DOA should know what
>> is going on and ignoring it won't make it go away like they hoped the
>> DML would just go away.
>
> This is my personal opinion:  There is a lot of bad advice given on 
> the DML by people who want to be a big fish in a small pond. There are 
> incomplete answers to incomplete questions.  On the whole, I think the 
> DML has done more harm than good for the DeLorean Community. It's only 
> redeeming feature is that it is a forum for owners to communicate with 
> each other. I just wish they had something useful to talk about.
>
>> Between the direction the magazine is going
>> and the change in the membership rules IMHO they are not doing things
>> to improve the DOA. I would hate to see it disappear, it was the glue
>> that held the Delorean owners togther for a long time in the early
>> years when it wasn't clear what was going to happen and there is an
>> extensive archive of technical info accumulated over the years.
>
> This 'extensive archive of technical info accumulated over the years' 
> that you refer to is the back issues of DeLorean World.  If you own 
> them and have read them you will see that virtually every aspect of 
> maintenance and repair on a DeLorean has been covered there.  True, 
> many of the newer owners do not have these magazines, but they are all 
> available on our website, as is an index to most of them.  It has been 
> a couple of years since I have seen a question posted on the DML that 
> couldn't have been answered by looking at an old DeLorean World.
>
> So where does the Association go from here?  We could re-publish old 
> magazine articles, but why?  We decided to let Gullwing and DCS 
> magazines try their hand at publishing the technical articles we have 
> already covered.  (DMCH's DeLoreans is just their catalog - ever see 
> anyone else's ads in it?)
>
> We thought we would try something new:  Owning a DeLorean is a 
> Lifestyle. If that doesn't work, we will try something else.
>
> Hank Breer
> Director at Large
> DeLorean Owners Association
> VIN 1141
>  
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:34:24 -0500
From: "Albert Siegel" <siegel_at_dml_technologist.com>
Subject: Parts missing/removed from my car at Jag Shop

Hello everyone. I would like to speak with anyone who has had a bad experience with the Jag Shop in South Florida. My car was there for quite some time to have body work done after a car accident. No work was ever done. All that was given were excuses and promised dates. I finally got tired of waiting and picked up the car. I was stunned that not one ounce of work had been done. The car had sat outside the entire time. The interior was destroyed, the entire electrical system was missing, parts from the engine as well as miscellaneous body parts missing.  I was told the parts were in storage, they needed to be removed, they were thrown away and he is not responcable.  He could not give me the same answer twice. Apparently I was not alone. I did run into two other people who have had similar experiences with the Jag Shop. All three of us were given our cars back with tons of parts missing from them. I would like anyone who has had trouble with the Jag Shop to email me directly. I am collecting as much information as I can for my lawyer. The three of us will sue Mr. David Wyne and go after his license. This man does not deserve to operate a repair shop. 

Albert Siegel 
asiegel(at)epyonsoft.com 

-- 
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sonny V <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Bob Dewey passes away May 20

Bob Dewey was the first CFO for the original DMC. He
left DMC and worked with Bill Collins to co-found the
Vixen Motor Co, which built motor homes. He was 72.

Sonny

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:20:39 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Engine Failure leak isolated (Catastrophic Engine Failure)

........So, I decided I had to find this oil/coolant leak before I 
covered up that area with the transmission bellhousing. I got under 
the car with a MagLight and stared some more.

The oil pan seam is sorta wet. The drain plug..not really so wet. The 
crossbeam is pretty wet. The very bottom of the engine face is 
definitely wet. Then I rolled more directly under the crossbeam and 
looked up. The fixing bolts which hold the lower/upper crank case 
together all have a drop of fluid dangling from them. That area is 
inside the bellhousing OR would be covered by that dustplate I'm 
missing when everything is assembled. Which explains why I couldn't 
see where stuff was coming from when it was all together. It also 
would look like a crank seal leak. But why would these bolts be 
loose? Such an important set of fasteners would have a high torque 
value right?

Brother Maynard, consult the "Book of De Lorean", "Engine", torque 
values. Gee. My bible must be incomplete. Those bolts aren't listed. 

I slipped a socket w/a swivel on those bolts and tightened them down 
without really exerting myself. They were actually loose. Only the 
rear ones seem to have leaked. ***Does anyone have torque values for 
those? Has anyone had their crankcase fixing bolts loosen up on them?
***

At least I'm ready to move on to the head gaskets now. Tomorrow is 
listed as sunny and my parts will be here.

Rich A.
#5335 -MD







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:55:36 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: DMCH's New Struts

I just caught the end of this thread today, I guess.

We had the struts re-made to the original specs from the factory drawings.
After testing a couple dozen samples of all three types (louvre, luggage
compartment, door), we had a significant quantity of each made for us. That
was the way we were able to lower the price so dramatically. A six strut kit
is now less than half what the cost used to be, and individual struts are as
much 60% less.

Using the screw-on vs crimp-on ends to identify one strut over another is
not a good way to tell the difference. ALL the struts sold for the DeLorean
today (at least the ones that I have seen either in person or in photos on
the web) are screw-on ends.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396

281/441-2537 Voice
281/441-2813 Fax
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 00:17:13 -0000
From: "ryanjm10014" <ryanjm_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Book Work Part II: DMC-H hi-po engine feedback requested

Work continues on my DeLorean book project, and I thank those of you 
that have responded thus far. As I mentioned, I knew I'd have more 
questions for you all, and here is another one. This one is specifically for 
those of you that either have DMC Houston's high-performance engine 
and/or suspension kit in your car or have driven someone else's.

Again, please e-mail directly to me: ryanjm(at)cox.net, and by responding 
you give permission for your quote and your first and last name -- no more, 
no less -- to be used in the book. 

Thanks in advance,

Ryan McCaffrey
#10014

For those who either own or have driven a car with DMC Houston's 
high-performance engine, please give your detailed impressions of it. Was it 
worth the cost? Are you satisfied with the performance? What do you think 
of the engine's sound and appearance in the engine bay? How has 
maintenance been?



Same question regarding their suspension (shocks/springs) package: Please 
give your detailed impressions. Worth the cost? How's the ride? The 
cornering? The car's appearance compared to stock? Would you 
recommend it to others?





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:20:34 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: OČ Sensor Diagnostics

I notice that when I disconnect my OČ sensor my car idles perfectly stable at 
about 950 rpm.  When it's connected the idle speed goes up and down, centered 
at about 1000 rpm.  Is this diagnostic of a specific problem?  Is there a way 
to test the OČ sensor?

Dave
6530


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 00:46:20 -0000
From: "stitsien" <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean Owners Assosiation

David, they've never taken any input well from what I've seen.  It 
bums me out to; I thought the statement "We exist to serve our 
members, not the DeLorean community at large" says it best. You 
attract more flies with honey than vinegars and statements like that 
put people off from the start of there DeLorean ownership. I would 
even venture so far as to say statements such as that could be 
interpreted as elitist and possibly give people the wrong opinion of 
DeLorean owners everywhere.  I mean owning one of these cars should 
be all about joy of it. Not this political/snobbish back and forth 
war of words I at least see going on with the DOA. You know sadly if 
they really feel the way Henry Breer represented them "he does seem 
to be responding in some official manor" the DOA may very well find 
itself becoming a bookmark in DeLorean history and not an author.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> This is a reply that I got from Henry Breer, a Director with the 
DOA. 
> This was an e-mail response to my public post on the DML. My feeling
> was that only by seeing it directly could you appreciate the tone.
> At the time I was trying to contact the DOA I was a member but my
> membership for having the article published has expired. My
> intention was to point out some areas of improvement, I guess they
> don't take criticism well. This e-mail is a telling look at how we
> are percieved by the DOA and their attitude to their "membership".
> I wonder why he had to respond in RED. Don't be too hard on him
> after all everyone is just a "volunteer" and doing this for the
> love of Deloreans?
> 
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> Henry Breer wrote:
> 

<snip -- excess quoted material trimmed>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:52:49 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Failure leak isolated (Catastrophic Engine Failure)

Does water jacket extend that far south? If not, what is source of
coolant? I was under impression you had ruled out head gaskets
(Message #33328).

Let us know how cam removal/replacement goes. I've messed with
overhead valve, but never overhead cam. Watch that timing!

BTW: PRV being so susceptible to vacuum leaks throughout, what is
effect of loose lower crankcase assembly?

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> ........So, I decided I had to find this oil/coolant leak before I 
> covered up that area with the transmission bellhousing. I got under 
> the car with a MagLight and stared some more.
> 
> The oil pan seam is sorta wet. The drain plug..not really so wet. The 
> crossbeam is pretty wet. The very bottom of the engine face is 
> definitely wet. Then I rolled more directly under the crossbeam and 
> looked up. The fixing bolts which hold the lower/upper crank case 
> together all have a drop of fluid dangling from them. That area is 
> inside the bellhousing OR would be covered by that dustplate I'm 
> missing when everything is assembled. Which explains why I couldn't 
> see where stuff was coming from when it was all together. It also 
> would look like a crank seal leak. But why would these bolts be 
> loose? Such an important set of fasteners would have a high torque 
> value right?
> 
> Brother Maynard, consult the "Book of De Lorean", "Engine", torque 
> values. Gee. My bible must be incomplete. Those bolts aren't listed. 
> 
> I slipped a socket w/a swivel on those bolts and tightened them down 
> without really exerting myself. They were actually loose. Only the 
> rear ones seem to have leaked. ***Does anyone have torque values for 
> those? Has anyone had their crankcase fixing bolts loosen up on them?
> ***
> 
> At least I'm ready to move on to the head gaskets now. Tomorrow is 
> listed as sunny and my parts will be here.
> 
> Rich A.
> #5335 -MD




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:51:17 -0000
From: "captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: More Paint Removal

I too am considering a DeLorean that had been painted by a previous 
owner.  Painted not because of damage, but because he wanted his 
DeLorean to be different from others.  I would like to remove the 
paint and do it the right way.

>From what I know, the car's stainless grain was left intact before 
priming and painting.  I have been considering chemical removal, but 
have some concerns:

1. It would be nice to use the same paint remover for the entire car 
and I don't want to risk melting the facia, disolving the resin in 
the underbody, or causing chemical corrosion to the body panels or 
torson bars, so which chemical paint removers (Striptease, Jasco, ... 
etc.) should I consider and which ones should I avoid?  

2. The paint wraps around the edges of the doors and is also on the 
hinges and torson bars.  Would the best method of paint removal be to 
remove the doors, hinges, and torson bars from the car and treat them 
separately (ie. blasting and powdercoating the hinges, stripping and 
dipping the doors, and coat and wipe the torson bars by hand) or can 
the paint be removed effectively with the doors remaining in place?

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Sincerely,
Ben Ferguson
Member of the Board of Directors - American Hydrogen Association 
(www.clean-air.org)
Member - Arizona DeLorean Club (www.az-d.org)
captainhydrogen_at_dml_cox.net




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:59:00 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Failure leak isolated (Catastrophic Engine Failure)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Brother Maynard, consult the "Book of De Lorean", "Engine", torque 
> values. Gee. My bible must be incomplete. Those bolts aren't 
listed. 
<SNIP>

Hows about Brother Maynard get hisself down to the autoparts store to 
pick up a Coolant System Pressure Tester, and while he's under the 
car, someone else from the congrgation there pressurizes the system, 
so he can see where the coolant is leaking out from? :P

It's worth a shot!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/