From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1535
Date: Saturday, June 07, 2003 8:40 AM

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There are 9 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: O Sensor Diagnostics
From: "dmcmike2002" <billsfanmd_at_dml_aol.com>

2. Re: More Paint Removal
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Simplified cooling system bleeding after thermostat replacement
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

4. Re: Simplified cooling system bleeding after thermostat replacement
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

5. DOA
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

6. Re: O Sensor Diagnostics
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: O Sensor Diagnostics
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

8. Woes
From: peteh269_at_dml_aol.com

9. Thank you
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 17:21:34 -0000
From: "dmcmike2002" <billsfanmd_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: O Sensor Diagnostics

The 02 sensor monitors your exhaust and helps the engine maintain the 
right air fuel mixture. However, if it is way off it will cause 
seeking as yor engine is constantly trying  to overcorrect....The 
best way to set the mixture is to have an exhaust analyzer but they 
are very expensive. The next best way is with a dwell 
meter...instructiuons are in the manual and in archives under the 
term dwell meter procedure...you want the needle to flucuate around 
the 45-50 pecent range with a 10 percent swing....

mike c
2109




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:19:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: More Paint Removal

IMHO the BEST way to remove the paint is to remove the S/S panels and
doors and use a chemical stripper on them. For any other parts like
the facias I would sand, fill, and seal them and just repaint right
over the paint. The torsion bars can be done with some chemical
stripper and scotch brite. It is too dangerous to use the stripper and
take the chance of getting it on the plastic and fiberglass and rubber
without taking the car apart. Using blast media will leave the
surfaces rough and you can never clean it all out and you take the
chance if damaging the glass. When using the chemical stripper the
active ingredient is methyl chloride. It is VERY toxic so use as much
personal protection as you can in a well ventilated area and dispose
of the waste properly. Expect to regrain the car, one of the prep
steps to painting the car was to sand the metal with a DA sander.
Depending on the condition of the paint job you might consider leaving
it painted. Maybe a good shop can touch up the paint job and compound
it making it look fresh. I would still worry about a damaged panel. It
is difficult to tell without a sonic tester or removing the paint. The
paint stripper won't cause any harm to the metal as long as it is
competely removed and the part rinsed after you are finished. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "captain_hydrogen"
<captainhydrogen_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I too am considering a DeLorean that had been painted by a previous 
> owner.  Painted not because of damage, but because he wanted his 
> DeLorean to be different from others.  I would like to remove the 
> paint and do it the right way.
> 





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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:29:18 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: Simplified cooling system bleeding after thermostat replacement

Hi Folks,

I replaced my thermostat the other day and thought I would share my 
simplified coolant system bleeding technique that worked pretty well 
for me. Disclaimer: this technique is only suitable for removing air 
trapped in the waterpump area (like you would get when replacing the 
thermostat) and is not sufficient for removing trapped air in the 
rest of the system.

In order to get the thermostat replacement job done quickly/easily, 
I did not empty the coolant from the system and instead just put a 
tub under the water pump to catch the spillage and made sure the cap 
was on the header bottle tightly (to reduce the amount of coolant 
from the bottle that would spill out). When removing the thermostat 
cap there is obviously some coolant lost and hopefully you catch it 
in the tub as it spills out.

After reassembly, I topped off the header bottle with a suitable mix 
of water and antifreeze, leaving the cap off the header bottle.
Using a length of clear tubing (the "clear" part is important) you
can use your mouth to draw out the air through the bleeder nipple on
the thermostat housing. It's important that the tubing be clear so
that you can tell if you're done drawing the air and are starting to
draw coolant -- you don't inadvertently want to consume any
antifreeze. You want some height on your end of the tube in order
to get the best air evacuation effect (you're not trying to siphon
anything, but rather trying to draw a low pressure). Bleeding the
setup took about a minute.

Obviously, those that have the self-bleeder kit installed don't have 
to worry about this in the first place, but I don't use the bleeder 
kits on my cars for philosophical reasons -- I maintain that once 
bled thoroughly, a properly functioning setup shouldn't need it. The 
only time I had trouble with the cooling system on either of my cars 
was when I had the head gasket fail on my one DMC resulting in 
gasses getting introduced into the cooling system.

Hopefully someone will find this little bleeding trick helpful.

     Knut





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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:37:12 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Simplified cooling system bleeding after thermostat replacement

Hi Knut

If you don't like the self-bleed kit idea, consider the fact that the 
radiator has one built into it already, and the Renault 30 has several 
all over the car - the DeLorean is simple by comparison.

(R30 has the same water pump, similar radiator and virtually identical 
engine)

I'm currently halfway through battling my way over 200 miles with a 
right-hand-drive DeLorean with serious head-gasket problems and split 
water hose behind the water pump. I'll try and write up a head-gasket 
job article when we do the job!

Martin
#1458
#4426

ksgrimsr wrote:

>Hi Folks,
>
>I replaced my thermostat the other day and thought I would share my 
>simplified coolant system bleeding technique that worked pretty well 
>for me. Disclaimer: this technique is only suitable for removing air 
>trapped in the waterpump area (like you would get when replacing the 
>thermostat) and is not sufficient for removing trapped air in the 
>rest of the system.
>
>In order to get the thermostat replacement job done quickly/easily, 
>I did not empty the coolant from the system and instead just put a 
>tub under the water pump to catch the spillage and made sure the cap 
>was on the header bottle tightly (to reduce the amount of coolant 
>from the bottle that would spill out). When removing the thermostat 
>cap there is obviously some coolant lost and hopefully you catch it 
>in the tub as it spills out.
>
>After reassembly, I topped off the header bottle with a suitable mix 
>of water and antifreeze, leaving the cap off the header bottle.
>Using a length of clear tubing (the "clear" part is important) you
>can use your mouth to draw out the air through the bleeder nipple on
>the thermostat housing. It's important that the tubing be clear so
>that you can tell if you're done drawing the air and are starting to
>draw coolant -- you don't inadvertently want to consume any
>antifreeze. You want some height on your end of the tube in order
>to get the best air evacuation effect (you're not trying to siphon
>anything, but rather trying to draw a low pressure). Bleeding the
>setup took about a minute.
>
>Obviously, those that have the self-bleeder kit installed don't have 
>to worry about this in the first place, but I don't use the bleeder 
>kits on my cars for philosophical reasons -- I maintain that once 
>bled thoroughly, a properly functioning setup shouldn't need it. The 
>only time I had trouble with the cooling system on either of my cars 
>was when I had the head gasket fail on my one DMC resulting in 
>gasses getting introduced into the cooling system.
>
>Hopefully someone will find this little bleeding trick helpful.
>
>     Knut
>
>  
>





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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:33:08 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: DOA


I may have read a different reply and therefore have a different scope of what Henry Breer said to David. 

If I was involved with a specific group of people with common interests (DeLoreans), and offered membership to anyone interested in joining, I would try to protect and educate only those who were members and supported this group, which maybe we could name the DeLorean Owners Association. Why should this group help outsiders who won't support the club? They (DOA) have access to a great wealth of information concerning the marque, and are not hiding with it. They simply have decided to make a business venture with this knowledge, charge an annual fee to join, and publish a magazine, have shows, to display the methods of enhancing and correcting wrongs with the car.

One day, after the DOA has been assembled and purring along, a new mode of transmitting information shows up, called the internet. It is discovered that information can be exchanged for nothing, and is really fast with answers! No membership, no applications, no expenses for written directions on how to fix the car, get parts, meet people with the same interest, etc.

The DOA has had it's time. It worked well at the start. Now a new method has become available to do a better job. 

No one wants to see a baby die. The DOA was a dream, for those pioneers,  the same as the car was a dream for John Z. They feel their concept worked then and will continue.Good luck to them!!!

Personalities always affect how a business, association, etc. survives. If you don't like their attitude, don't buy from them, or join them, or have anything to do with them.

I was a member of the DOA many years ago. Now I'm not. It does not serve my purpose any longer.However I won't condemn them because of their views and attitudes.

If they (DOA) want to sell bubble gum, or promote Montreal, (which I think is a lousy city), or become a travel magazine ....who cares. If they close...too bad....they were once the best....time moves on!!!

My thoughts anyway!

Marv
# 17707
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com  

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: O Sensor Diagnostics

Dave

I'm assuming the car is FULLY warmed up.  If that is
the case, I'd suspect the O2 (my email won't do the
tiny little 2) sensor.  

Frankly, with the turbo set-up, I, and others, often
run the car with the sensor disconnected.  In fact, I
have a Hobb's switch that fools the sensor when boost
is acheived and allows the car to run "full rich".

Except for emissions testing, you might just try
running the car with the sensor disconnected.  It
won't hurt anything.

Dick

--- doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
> I notice that when I disconnect my O sensor my car
> idles perfectly stable at 
> about 950 rpm.  When it's connected the idle speed
> goes up and down, centered 
> at about 1000 rpm.  Is this diagnostic of a specific
> problem?  Is there a way 
> to test the O sensor?
> 
> Dave
> 6530
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 01:14:18 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: O Sensor Diagnostics

Dave

When the oxygen sensor is disconnected it tells the lambda computer 
to default to a fuel rich condition by sending a default frequency 
to the frequency valve. The sensor senses oxygen, that's all. It 
does not know rich or lean, etc. So, in order for the sensor to do 
its job correctly, everything else has to be working properly. 
Exhaust leaks can cause too much oxygen, misfires can cause too much 
oxygen, and vacuum leaks can cause too much oxygen and so on.

Based on your note I would say something is wrong because the idle 
is too high. It should be idling at 775rpm + or - 50. A slight 
fluctuation in the engine speed at idle is normal and represents the 
ideal oxygen level "hunt" by the lambda using the oxygen sensor 
voltage.

The only way to really know what the readings are is to do the 
exhaust analysis.

BTW  a good way to use too much fuel and burn up the catalytic 
converter is to disconnect the sensor.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I notice that when I disconnect my O sensor my car idles 
perfectly stable at 
> about 950 rpm.  When it's connected the idle speed goes up and 
down, centered 
> at about 1000 rpm.  Is this diagnostic of a specific problem?  Is 
there a way 
> to test the O sensor?
> 
> Dave
> 6530
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:58:42 -0400
From: peteh269_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Woes

I called 2 places in town (No. Cal.) to take a look at a DMC that I might buy.  The first guy (volvo specialist) refused - saying they are way too hard to work on.  The 2nd guy (european\Volvo specialist) refused.  He said they are very difficult to put back and gave me an example of the HEAD from the head gasket fame.  Both advised me never to buy it.  What gives????  Now they spooked me into possibly not buying the car
Pete



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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:00:29 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Thank you

I would like to thank everyone for helping me get my Delorean back on the road. I am
glad there are so many people that helped me with my water pump/ coolant sensor
questions.

My car is back together and runs 100% better than before. I must of had one hell of a
vacuum leak because it doesnt hunt like it did before and it actually feels like a V6
now.

I did a complete tune up including a new coil, all coolant hoses, O2 sensor, SS header
bottle, all new vacuum hoses, clutch M/C, water pump and a bunch of stuff that had to
get replaced after i broke it getting it off.

Thank you all
Mark
6683




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