From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1557
Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:31 AM

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There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: First, Everyday driver
From: "Mike Drake" <>

2. Re: Re: Java (Was: Vin 5386 Restoration Site Now REVAMPED!!!!!)
From: Vin 5386 <>

3. Vin 1880 Sold to young driver

4. Re:[DML}Young Owners (was DeLoreans as first cars)
From: "mcydrake" <>

5. RE: DeLorean HP issue again...
From: "supremeadmiralsenn" <>

6. Re: DeLoreans as first cars
From: "Mike Drake" <>

7. Re: More a/c questions
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

8. Re: What about my AC high pressure cut of switch?
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:06:57 -0400
From: "Mike Drake" <>
Subject: Re: Re: First, Everyday driver

Thank you for your reply, i will take everything you said into account but your opinion of my driving skills.. it's true that teens get into accidents, I"VE SEEN THEM DRIVE, it's horrible, but i am not an average teen, me and my dad build A/C cobra's, they go 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds, they do not have power steering, no hydrolic assisted clutch and NO POWER BRAKES, that is a hard vehicle to drive, nevermind to say that it has on two small mirrors, i have drive that fine, and have never even hit a curb with it, handling, and being a good driver is not a problem, i was more concerned with wether i would or wouldn't be able to take it on long trips without being stranded, but thank you for the response...


PS... wouldn't understeerage not help making quike u-turns becuase instead of the tail coming around quikily, the car keeps moving foward? 


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <>
Subject: Re: Re: Java (Was: Vin 5386 Restoration Site Now REVAMPED!!!!!)

I wouldn't really know what version of IE is current
as I wouldn't touch IE with a 1000' foot poll.

As far as the Java goes, Took me a long time to get
everything worked out so I could have a nice easy and
neat site. It's easy to navigate and easy to update
and keeps everything in order. The text menus is
exactly what I was getting away from in the first
place so I see no need to go back to them.

Vin 5386
--- Mark Noeltner <> wrote:
> If you need IE 8 then everyone is out of luck!! v6.x
> is current right now.
> :-)
> Michael has a valid complaint. There ARE other
> browsers out there other
> than Netscape and IE, plus some people turn off Java
> for security reasons
> (or have it turned off for them at work).
> Personally, I don't think Java is
> all that bad. ActiveX has a lot more security risks
> IMHO. Anyway, a plain
> text menu at the very bottom of the page can help
> out those who are
> Java-challenged while still keeping the look you
> want.
> Another thing to consider are software readers used
> by handicapped people.
> These can read text but not Javascript. W3C (the
> group that regulates HTML
> and other web stuff) specifies that you should have
> text equivilants for
> all images and scripted items to make your web site
> handicapped accessable.
> Mark N
> VIN 6820
> At 04:32 PM 6/23/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >Shouldn't be any problems with viewing the site.
> Just
> >use Netscaoe 7 or IE 8 or similar and you should
> have
> >no problems. It's a Java scrip and works like
> enhanced
> >
> >Todd
> >Vin5386
> >
> >
> >--- Michael Paine <> wrote:
> >> Javascript menus for easy navigation?? can you be
> so
> >> kind as to add a TEXT link as well for us
> non-javascript users :-)
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:28:38 EDT
Subject: Vin 1880 Sold to young driver

One of the DeLoreans in my collection was sold today to a young individual 
(17) who got this as his first car.

I have to say I am impressed by his love an passion for the car and his 
intent on keeping it pristine.  This car has only 6704 miles on it when he took 
title today but the car is in very nice condition and I expect it will stay that 

This was the car I had in Chicago in May.

I am not so sure age has as much to do with this topic as maturity and 
dedication to the car.

My kids drive mine regularly and I never have had a problem.  They tend to 
take better care of it than the other cars they have.

The age of interest for DeLorean Drivers is anywhere from 16 to 86 (right 
Murray) and everywhere in between.  Some owners treat their D's with tender 
loving care while others drive them and sell them when they fall apart.  Then 
someone buys it refurbishes it and its back in circulation again.

Owning a D is a whole new lifestyle if you allow it.

Time will tell the good owners from the not so good owners but the DeLoreans 
will be around for some time to come. 

I do agree that the new younger owners appear to have a deep passion for the 
car.  I can name at least a dozen owners under 21 that drive the cars and do a 
remarkable job keeping them on the road.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:15:58 -0000
From: "mcydrake" <>
Subject: Re:[DML}Young Owners (was DeLoreans as first cars)

Thank you for bringing this up... i would like to personally thank 
everyone for their help, i am a teen but am into cars, know how to 
drive them, know how to take care of them, i think it's a common 
misconseption that teens all just put chrome rims on handa's (which 
in some cases is true) but anyone who is on this forum wants to take 
their time in talking about our beloved DeLoreans, learn what they 
don't know, boldly gone where no man has gone before... well only an 
explusive group. DeLoreans are peices of art and everyone in here 
will probably agree one of the most inovative cars designed



Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:28:24 -0000
From: "supremeadmiralsenn" <>
Subject: RE: DeLorean HP issue again...


Thanks for telling me that. I knew it wasn't an awful underpowered 
car, but I didn't know it was 'nimble'. However, there are a few 
reasons I'd like to have a higher performing De Lorean. One is, as 
yuou mentioned, the exhaust sounds a little high pitched. Another is 
telling people that my dream car gets 130 hp, you get funny looks 
for that. Laso, I think the car deserves something more. Don't worry 
about me being satisfied with the car, I just want to have a unique, 
powerful car that has an engine to go with its styling. 

Wow, I need to stop clogging the DML 

Adam Stadnick


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:46:16 -0400
From: "Mike Drake" <>
Subject: Re: DeLoreans as first cars

( Moderator's note:  I'm ending the young owner thread here as it's back to where it probably started with this post. Anyone who's been to the DeLorean Car Shows in Ohio and Tennesee knows there is a large number of young deLorean owners and their cars maintained as well as any. )

Hello, I am the person who posted that i wanted to buy one for my first car.. and i garentee it's not just for the "cool doors" and "shiny body" and i agree COMPLETELY about the lack of respect for these cars, people who buy honda accords, or honda civics and "soop" them up with all chrome crap do not car about cars... they car about who they can pick up in them. When i get mine, i vow to help the DeLorean community, if i have to drive and meet you and hold up my right hand so be it. I'v always have had a distinct taste in cars, not beucase they were fast, not beucase they were astonishingly cool, a matter of fact my friends have all the cars i like, which include DeLoreans, the OLD mini's (Morris minors or austins) etc.,.. thank you for your concern


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:28:03 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: More a/c questions

I don't usually get into the correction business but there is a 
reason the AC compressor is called a compressor.

The theory of refrigeration requires a "compressor" otherwise there 
is no way to attain the liquid to gas process that removes heat from 
the air passing over the evaporator. The orifice tube regulates the 
liquid to gas process at the evaporator. A clogged system with a 
functioning compressor can blow the system apart; that is why there 
is a safety valve and/or a high pressure switch. Too much Freon will 
cause a too high pressure on both the high and low side in an 
unclogged system. The orifice tube creates the differential that 
causes cooling. At the ideal charge, the entire evaporator removes 
heat (feels cool). If the system is undercharged only a portion of 
the evaporator is removing heat and pressures are too low (the quick 
clutch cycling or no engagement of compressor). BTW, if the 
compressor ran with an undercharged system a vacuum can be created 
on the low side. If the system is over charged the pressures are too 
high and the evaporator does not remove heat because there is not 
enough expansion room for the Freon in the evaporator. There are 
other important functions that create the cooling; the fans remove 
heat in the liquid in the condenser (it became a liquid by 
compression), the amount of air crossing over the evaporator, etc., 

Further, getting the correct charge in a system is a bit of an art 
without the correct equipment. You need experience in reading the 
differentials on the gauges at different outside temperatures and a 
minimum of specialized equipment. Working on the AC system can be 
very dangerous especially if you are still using R-12. A little R-12 
in a running engine intake can create a killer gas. I suspect most 
owners are best off leaving this service to a specialist.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
> Don't know R12 static pressure (R134 is 90 - 100 PSI), but tech 
> N:05:01 STARTS at 60 PSI. Would imagine anything less trips low
> pressure switch as soon as cycle starts. Take it back at least to 
> PSI then begin diagnosis.
> High and low side pressures are on page N:06:01 (or page N:09:01).
> Remember: A/C can appear backwards -- high side reading too LOW 
> system is clogged (most people think opposite simply because it's
> pumping there. Actually no way compressor alone could emulate 
> of refrigeration. In fact, have been told heart of whole operation 
> suction, not output). You need a good cycle to get into 200 plus 
> range. When everything's clear you should see low side drop and 
> side climb (hence the names).  
> BTW: This is one reason I do most of my work on low side. Reading 
> high -- system is clogged (hot air from vents) or overcharged (cold
> air from vents). Too low -- freon is low (assuming PSI drop has
> occurred). Makes more sense. Plus on a 134 conversion most people 
> put quick connect on low side only.
> RE: compressor cycling -- under optimal conditions it is NOT 
> to cycle. Note on page N:01:01 that cycling is response to frozen
> evaporator (blocked by ice -- remember clogged high side LOWERS
> pressure). If system is clear, freon level correct, and DeLo 
> in the sun, compressor should run continuously. Cycling compressor
> means something's wrong.
> BTW David T: thought some more about iced up evaporator on my Two 
> Lincoln last year. Ford's freon metering device ("throttle 
> valve") has no compressor shut off feature. Does have an orifice
> bypass line, but that's usually triggered by a stuck expansion 
> (WAY too much freon). My conversions are probably splitting the
> difference -- too much freon into evaporator due to higher R134
> pressures psyching out TSV, but not enough to open bypass circuit.
> Only getting away with it by passive heat radiating from heater 
> and continuously melting ice (is only separated by a plastic door).
> Remember: froze up when heater core was bypassed due to leak. 
> frozen since.
> Same principle must apply to my DeLo. If it isn't passive heat from
> heater core (good reason to use "Norm" setting vs "Max"), may be
> because interior absorbs so much sun!
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> >--- In, "geek123y" <ken_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> > List :Members
> > My car had loss of R12 the compressor stopped and wouldn't come 
on I 
> > added 1 pound of R12 and some die and ran it for a week it was a 
> > leak at the condesor  fitting


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:40:40 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: What about my AC high pressure cut of switch?

NOT SO! I'm sure you did not hear their comments completely. It is 
called a CCOTT system because it stands for Clutch Cycling Orifice 
Tube Type system. Note the word cycling. Also, if you read the 
second paragraph on page N:01:01 it explains how the system 
operates. I'm sure the intent of their statements were - on a hot 
day the clutch may rarely cycle - which I would say it correct.

Harold McElraft - 3354

-- In, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> I just got my A/C recharged by a place that just works on cooling 
systems and they said
> the compressor will only cycle if it is low on freon, DMCH also 
agreed. The compressor
> should never cycle.
> Mark


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