From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1580
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2003 7:44 AM

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: DeLorean for sale
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. Re: funny smell......
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

3. Re: dead car ... was DeLorean for sale
From: ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com

4. Re: Car just won't stay running?
From: "technomage_x" <jangell_at_dml_tmproductions.com>

5. AW: funny smell......
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

6. Re: Car just won't stay running?
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. Re: DeLorean for sale
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

8. Re: Clunk when accelerating
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

9. Re: Car just won't stay running?
From: Richard Acuti <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

10. #$_at_dml_! amatuer mechanics
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

11. air conditioning problem
From: "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Re: Bad news on my head
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

13. Re: Muffler Heat Shield
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

14. Yet another question
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

15. DeLorean stalling when in gear: more symptoms
From: Joe Angell <jangell_at_dml_tmproductions.com>

16. BTTF DeLorean for sale
From: "Ryan" <boy1der18_at_dml_aol.com>

17. Re: Martin Gutkowski's PRV Guy
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:47:14 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean for sale

I think you need to get back to basics. Forget all the sensors and add
on crap for now. Once engine is running you can re-install if desired.

Control pressure regulator isn't optional, but the vacuum enrichment
ports are.

1) Ensure ONE MORE TIME that heads, valve covers, timing chain cover,
intake manifold, cold start tube (bottom), and the many mating
surfaces of upper air assembly are air tight. I know I sound like a
broken record, but if you're sucking air fuel metering won't work.
This may be a situation where some orange silicone couldn't hurt. Just
remember to do TWO torquings -- a gentle one to squish flat, then a
tight one after it's dried.

2) Plug EVERY vacuum port on engine. They aren't needed right now. Do
NOT plug the PCV breather port. Not only will engine NOT run without
it, but that's the best place to spray starting fluid (upper air
assembly has weird air flow. Stuff poured past air sensor plate will
puddle in it, not sucked into engine until higher RPM's).

3) Remove idle speed motor and cap BOTH air passages in cold start
tube and upper air assembly. For now you can crack the throttle plates
with set screw like a carburetor.

4) Don't worry about Lamda system. It will fail in a constant rich mode.

5) Install a brand new high voltage coil. Best $30 you'll ever spend.
While you're trying to start engine run a temporary wire from jump
start post to positive terminal on coil. Don't worry about hurting
ignition module -- you're only shooting full 12 volts during starting
cycle. Once engine runs you can trouble shoot ballast resistors and
starting relay.

6) Pull an injector and place in coke bottle. Don't forget to plug
empty port in head (MAJOR vacuum leak). I made a plug from old
injector seal and a bolt. Jump fuel pump relay (engine won't flood as
long as air sensor plate isn't depressed). Watch for spray pattern as
starter motor turns engine. 

7) Use a timing light as starter motor turns engine to verify timing.
20 degrees is going the wrong way. I'd time closer to TDC.

8) Put gas cap back on. You're not jetisoning car just yet.

9) Start the engine (famous last words?)

There are only so many places your problem can be. Visually verify
fuel supply. Use timing light on each wire (as close to plug as
possible) to verify spark. Pull plugs and feel for vacuum in the
cylinders. Make sure distributor isn't 180 degrees off (stock DMC
helpfully gives you TWO timing marks on crank pulley opposite one
another). Even if your engine has vacuum leak bad enough to interfere
with air sensor plate, it should run on starting fluid alone for a few
seconds. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Needs minor restoration work. Simply unscrew gas cap, tow vehicle 
> away, drive new DeLorean under gas cap. Screw on gas cap. Restoration 
> complete.
> 
> Ok, so I'm not -quite- ready to quit yet. I am starting to feel 
> cheated though.
> 
> Let's review:
> 
> 1. Car did not run because of fuel system & electrical problems.
> 
> 2. Fixed electrical problems, and most of fuel problems. Needed new 
> fuel distributor. Car ran, though poorly. Very rich.
> 
> 3. Water pump leaked, engine overheated blowing head gaskets. (Yes, 
> I'm an idiot) At this point, the car still -ran-.
> 
> 4. Reconditioned engine. New head gaskets and seals all the way 
> around. New O2 sensor, thermotime thingy, vacuum switch, (the stuff 
> in the coolant "Y" pipe) blah blah blah.
> 
> 5. I've re done the timing 20 times now. Fuel, air, spark, starting 
> fluid. Now car does not run.
> 
> I've done this before. I don't know why I can't now.




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:06:21 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: funny smell......

See pic of my melted headlight switch in #5939's photo album. Almost
lost car on that one...

Headlight switch is not protected (fuses 14 and 15 come AFTER switch),
yet it contains an internal bulb! A very hot internal bulb. Is just a
cheap switch to begin with. Heat from bulb will eventually melt
switch. If there was no ground wire for that internal bulb would
simply be inconvenience of a switch stuck open or closed. With ground
wire you can have an unprotected short.

BTW: compare to hazard flasher circuit, in which fuse 6 comes BEFORE
the switch...

"Funny smell" when my switch melted was accompanied by fire. This is
very bad in a plastic car. Note that insulation was melted off ground
wire (intermittently) all the way back to relay compartment.

I highly recommend pulling your headlight switch to see what's going
on. Simply remove A/C panel and pop switch towards you.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> My parents always told me that attempting to my battery-operated toys
> run faster by hooking them to 120V would do me no good.
> 
> Boy was she wrong!  She didn't know that in the future, I would own a
> car that would require me to be able to quickly identify that exact
> smell.
> 
> That being said, I have several electrical issues.  The fuse for the
> low-beam headlights has started to melt, and the headlight switch is
> damaged (i.e., wont stay in).  I don't use the headlights much at all,
> so is this a coincidence or could these problems be related?
> 
> My plan is this:
> 
>   1. new headlight switch
>   2. all new fuses
>   3. clean all fuse connections
>   4. clean all relays and relay connections
> 
> I hope that will do it.  I cant find any other damaged components but
> the wiring does get quite hot in that relay compartment.
> 
> 
> 
> Gus Schlachter
> VIN #4695
> Austin, TX
> 
> 
> P.S.  If someone out there (ahem) made a "kit" to replace most all of
> the incandescent bulbs (interior, door, dash, tail, etc.) with the
> super/hyper LED's, I'd buy it.  Just to take some of the load off.




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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:23:49 GMT
From: ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com
Subject: Re: dead car ... was DeLorean for sale


to eliminate gross timing issues, you can use a timing light connected to the #1 cylinder and check the make sure it's in the right ballpark.  Just have someone turn over the engine while you test.

Timing changes with RPM but and by the vacuum switch, but it should be close, even if something is broken in the vac/distributor.

Pressing down on the air flow meter while cranking (eg, with the filter off) may help if the cold start valve is not working right.  It will make a temporary rich condition which will help the car start.  There should be resistance on the air flow meter plate, you should be able to 'feel' the gas going by when you press on it.  

Check all 6 plug lines for spark.  Make sure the plug lines are firmly seated on the plugs. (I've seen little inductive pickup tools that you put near the spark plug wire that lights a small light when it's firing.  they're like 2 bucks and are a quick easy test.)

You might want to check injector flow into test tubes to make sure they are all flowing.  

It might help if you give more details about what happening- is the engine sputtering?  starting/stalling?  Just turning over?  Is there a gas smell coming out of the exhaust?

good luck
Jim


--- "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com> wrote:

Needs minor restoration work. Simply unscrew gas cap, tow vehicle 
away, drive new DeLorean under gas cap. Screw on gas cap. Restoration 
complete.

Ok, so I'm not -quite- ready to quit yet. I am starting to feel 
cheated though.

Let's review:

1. Car did not run because of fuel system & electrical problems.

2. Fixed electrical problems, and most of fuel problems. Needed new 
fuel distributor. Car ran, though poorly. Very rich.

3. Water pump leaked, engine overheated blowing head gaskets. (Yes, 
I'm an idiot) At this point, the car still -ran-.

4. Reconditioned engine. New head gaskets and seals all the way 
around. New O2 sensor, thermotime thingy, vacuum switch, (the stuff 
in the coolant "Y" pipe) blah blah blah.

5. I've re done the timing 20 times now. Fuel, air, spark, starting 
fluid. Now car does not run.

I've done this before. I don't know why I can't now.



To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:53:42 -0000
From: "technomage_x" <jangell_at_dml_tmproductions.com>
Subject: Re: Car just won't stay running?

Ah, thanks -- I'll have it checked out.

I should clarify the steps that cause the problem.

The first time this happened was on Sat, while driving up my steep hill to go home.  
The engine seemed to go off for about 1/2 second and then go on again two or three 
times (which I have taken to calling "sputtering"), then finally the car clicked off.  It 
started right back up again, and I was able to drive home.

The next day I took it out, I went about 5 miles before it started acting up, maybe a 
half dozen times or so of sputtering, and two or three stalls.  I was able to restart the 
car each time and get it home.

Two days later I took it to my mechanic.  The stuttering effect occured frequently, but 
it didn't stall out.

My mechanic tried to diagnose the problem (and fixed another unrelated issue), and I 
tried to take the car home for this weekend.  The car reversed fine, but stalled FOUR 
TIMES when I tried to just get out of their driveway (this was literally stopped at the 
end of the driveway and waiting for traffic to clear; it took four restarts to get 
moving).  I drove to first stop light, it died again, and I had it brought back to the 
mechanic to get looked at.

So in short:  The problem started on Sat and got progressively worse over the last 
week.

Thanks for the assistance!

-- Joe

> Joe, Possible air flow meter adjustment and 02 adjustment.
> John Hervey
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Angell [mailto:jangell_at_dml_t...]
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:50 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Car just won't stay running?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having a very annoying problem with my DeLorean.  It goes like this:
> 
> Start the car.  Push on the gas pedal.  Car goes off.  Start the car.
> Push on the gas pedal again.  Car goes off again.  If you're lucky, you
> can get it just fast enough and it will keep running, at least until
> the next time you stop.
> 
> Reverse gear seems fine; I can back up OK (although I didn't back up
> far).  The car stalled 4 times just trying to get it out of my driveway.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea what this could possibly be?  Relays?
> Transmission?  Anything?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- Joe
> VIN 767
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_d...
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:07:08 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: funny smell......

The contacts that hold the fuses are pretty weak, 
new ones keep them in place with 2-3 times the force 
of the old ones. Replace them and you're done.

LUCAS, King of darkness !

The headlight switch ? have you tried pushing it in only from
the most bottom point you can ? This works for my switch. (At least 
until I will find the time to take it out and to fix it !)

Elvis




Boy was she wrong!  She didn't know that in the future, I would own a
car that would require me to be able to quickly identify that exact
smell.

That being said, I have several electrical issues.  The fuse for the
low-beam headlights has started to melt, and the headlight switch is
damaged (i.e., wont stay in).  I don't use the headlights much at all,
so is this a coincidence or could these problems be related?

My plan is this:

  1. new headlight switch
  2. all new fuses
  3. clean all fuse connections
  4. clean all relays and relay connections




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:33:56 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Car just won't stay running?

Does it get better as it gets warm? If so, it's the Control Pressure 
Regulator. A common failure item 22 years on. John Hervey sells refurbed 
units. Takes 10 minutes to change them over.

Martin
#1458
#4426

Joe Angell wrote:

>I'm having a very annoying problem with my DeLorean.  It goes like this:
>
>Start the car.  Push on the gas pedal.  Car goes off.  Start the car.  
>Push on the gas pedal again.  Car goes off again.  If you're lucky, you 
>can get it just fast enough and it will keep running, at least until 
>the next time you stop.
>
>Reverse gear seems fine; I can back up OK (although I didn't back up 
>far).  The car stalled 4 times just trying to get it out of my driveway.
>
>Does anyone have any idea what this could possibly be?  Relays?  
>Transmission?  Anything?
>
>Thanks
>
>-- Joe
>VIN 767
>
>  
>





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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:43:31 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: DeLorean for sale

I often have trouble when first starting a car up after a big job like 
this. There's no rhyme or reason for it. but here goes:

First thing I'd try is jumpung the ballast resistors to put 12v across 
the coil. This will cause the coil to overheat over time but it *might* 
be enough to bring the engine to life long enough for you to check the 
timing. Usually I leave the adjustment on the dizzy loose and as a 
friend is cranking the engine over, I steadily move the dizzy around 
till it fires, then find a point where it's at its smoothest. Usually 
I'm within a few degrees of the 13 the D engine should be timed to at idle.

Another thing to try is to deliberately enrich the mixture as this will 
be more tolerant of the timing being out. however this can only be done 
for a short time - though you will be able to tell by the smell where 
the sweet spot is. I have a gas analyser.

Best Wishes, and don't give up yet!

Martin

cruznmd wrote:

>Needs minor restoration work. Simply unscrew gas cap, tow vehicle 
>away, drive new DeLorean under gas cap. Screw on gas cap. Restoration 
>complete.
>
>Ok, so I'm not -quite- ready to quit yet. I am starting to feel 
>cheated though.
>
>Let's review:
>
>1. Car did not run because of fuel system & electrical problems.
>
>2. Fixed electrical problems, and most of fuel problems. Needed new 
>fuel distributor. Car ran, though poorly. Very rich.
>
>3. Water pump leaked, engine overheated blowing head gaskets. (Yes, 
>I'm an idiot) At this point, the car still -ran-.
>
>4. Reconditioned engine. New head gaskets and seals all the way 
>around. New O2 sensor, thermotime thingy, vacuum switch, (the stuff 
>in the coolant "Y" pipe) blah blah blah.
>
>5. I've re done the timing 20 times now. Fuel, air, spark, starting 
>fluid. Now car does not run.
>
>I've done this before. I don't know why I can't now.
>
>  
>





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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:44:34 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Clunk when accelerating

Gearbox mounts or trailing arm bolts. The latter is the most likely, if 
you haven't attended to them already...

Martin

John Elgersma wrote:

>I realize that most car will jolt when you suddenly press the 
>accelerator, this mostly very prominent on manual shifts. Well, it 
>appears that I hear a clunk everytime I accelerate. It is almost 
>like the engine/transmission heaves and creates a jolt or a bang. If 
>this is normal, great! Smooth acceleration is of course working fine 
>on the car.
>Any input on these symptoms, reply! Thanks
>JohnE 10250
>
>
>
>  
>





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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:04:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Acuti <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Car just won't stay running?

You didn't specify, but I gather when you say that you can back up just fine, but stall going forward that you have an automatic transmission.

If you do have an auto, it could be transmission related. I hear tell that the governor computer gets very wierd when it breaks.

I've you're driving a manual 5-spd then I suspect more normal causes, like fuel starvation etc.

_____________________________________________________________
See what you missed! Read the report on the 2003 DMC Open House Event at http://www.delorean.com/2003event.asp



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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:41:50 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: #$_at_dml_! amatuer mechanics

Ok, most of us here are amatuers but this just makes me fume.

During the winter, I had a loss of confidence and sought a mechanic 
willing to work on my car. He admitted ignorance in all things 
DeLorean and I told him that if he were a normal, competent mechanic 
that he could handle working on a Volvo engine if I supplied the 
manuals.

I ended up paying him $400.00 to teach -him- about the fuel system. I 
told him I suspected that the primary pressure regulator was rusted 
shut. He argued. I told him I was paying him to do what I want. So we 
pulled the fuel dizzy off. I was right, he was wrong. We freed the 
regulator up. Against my wishes when my back was turned, he opened 
the fuel dizzy. Now it's ruined. It leaks. He put wrong size O-rings 
on the plunger so it doesn't move freely. Ok, fine. I'm resigned to a 
new one. No problem.

Next, he noticed the O2 adjustment screw was plugged up. I told him 
this was correct. The DeLorean has -electronic- idle control. "No it 
doesn't". And again, behind my back, he drilled out the plug and set 
a screw in it thinking he was setting the idle.

He also drilled into the 3mm allen head adjustment screw. I can't 
adjust it now because the screw head is hamburger. If anyone has a 
spare screw of this type, or a spare venturi off of a parts engine 
for sale, please contact me offline.

Thanks,

Rich




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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:51:37 -0000
From: "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: air conditioning problem

Hello, I seem to have a problem with my air conditioning. When I turn 
it on the compressor turns on and off in about 3 second intervals, 
and my cooling fans activate with the compressor so they are also 
turning on and off every three seconds. Does this mean I need a 
coolant recharge or is this normal cycling? I could have sworn that 
last summer my fans were running constantly with the AC engaged.

thanks in advance for any and all info!

adam p 




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:14:16 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bad news on my head

 From my PRV guy:
-------

I think it is prob too far gone..
And the fact that it has gone porous also means it is
scrap. It is not unusual for alloy engine parts to go
porous, even if it just one "pore".
-----

So there you go.

Martin



Jeff Phillips wrote:

>Just got word from the machine shop that my passenger side head is 
>warped .008" and there is a pin-hole on one cylinder.  I've never 
>heard of a head having a pin-hole and I'm having a hard time 
>imagining how you could have a pin-hole in an aluminum chuck of 
>metal.  Does anyone have any advise on this phenomenum?  DMLers have 
>told that me the most the head can be machined is less than a few 
>thousands of an inch.  Would .008" be considered too much? 
>
>I'm now looking for a new/used passenger side head anyone with one 
>available please email me offline at rv_party_at_dml_hotmail.com.  
>
>Jeff
>#10544
>
>
>  
>





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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:30:13 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Muffler Heat Shield

"Originals" aren't that great because they are made from asbestos. This goes
for the muffler heatshield and the molded catalytic converter heatshields,
neither of which are available original any longer.

We're testing a new design of the both heatshields now, and expect to have
them ready for retail sale next month.

James

> From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Date: 12 Jul 2003 11:56:05 -0000
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1579
> 
> Or, you 
> can save yourself the trouble and buy one from delorean.com for $50-
> ish dollars.
> 
> They aren't that great because they fall apart when they get wet.




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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:33:48 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Yet another question

I've pulled my dying starter and mailed it off. In the meantime, I 
thought I'd check the oil to make sure there was no coolant or 
anything in it since I changed the head gaskets.

Well, out comes 6.8 quarts of oil, and 7 quarts of gasoline. Now I 
understand that when you're cranking, and the car isn't starting, 
it's still pumping gas but isn't that a bit excessive? Especially 
since I had unplugged the cold start valve to avoid flooding it?

I ask this question because I suspect that one reason it wouldn't 
start after putting back together is because it was being flooded out.

I welcome your opinions. Thanks,

Rich




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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:46:14 -0700
From: Joe Angell <jangell_at_dml_tmproductions.com>
Subject: DeLorean stalling when in gear: more symptoms


More on my wacky DeLorean troubles:

My mechanic tells me that if the DeLorean is raised on the lift, it 
does not stall in any gear.  The moment the car is back on it's wheels 
and is not being supported by the lift at all, it stalls when in gear.  
How very strange.

Thanks!

-- Joe




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:09:53 -0000
From: "Ryan" <boy1der18_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: BTTF DeLorean for sale

Hey all!

I am selling my Delorean Time Machine.  I have done some extensive 
work to it sine I listed it last year.  This time I must sell it 
because I'm starting a family and need to get rid of my toy's so I 
can buy that dreaded minivan.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=31830&item=2423543554

Ryan




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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 01:19:11 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Martin Gutkowski's PRV Guy

Any chance Darren (your PRV guy) will be coming to Pigeon Forge next
year? His assistance (eMail) Re: my R30 was invaluable -- could
perhaps do same for others...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:
>  From my PRV guy:
> -------
> 





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