From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1593
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:32 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Door Struts
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Re: Pick up coil probs
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: Pick up coil probs
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. RE: Pick up coil probs
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

5. Another DeLorean but in sad shape
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

6. D for sale in Wisconsin
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Engine Light Switch
From: Tom Watkins <dmctom_at_dml_earthlink.net>

8. Car Show FAQ Fact Sheet
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. DeLorean mention on Monster Garage
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

10. Monster Garage
From: BondAtomic_at_dml_aol.com

11. ETDOC August 9, Gatlinburg, Tn
From: deloreanss_at_dml_aol.com

12. Angle Torque & head bolts
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

13. Re: Pick up coil probs
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

14. Re: Re: Pick up coil probs
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

15. Re: Sluggish acceleration
From: "deloreanchuck" <chuckkay_at_dml_comcast.net>

16. RE: Door Struts
From: "Dan Saulnier" <dps_at_dml_seacon.com>

17. Re: Pick up coil probs
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

18. Re: Angle Torque & head bolts
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

19. Delorean Mid Atlantic Summer Fun Run web page
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

20. RE: A/C System Questions.
From: "michael townsley" <townfour_at_dml_mindspring.com>

21. Re: Angle Torque & head bolts
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

22. Re: Angle Torque & head bolts
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

23. Copyright laws
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

24. Clean the fuel tank?
From: "jberam1" <jberam_at_dml_hotmail.com>

25. Re: Idle Speed ECU
From: "dcsj4465" <dcsj_at_dml_excite.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:56:46 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Door Struts

They can be really stubborn. Make sure the door is held up securely
and wack it hard. It is easier if you get one end loose and then work
on the other end. Make doubly sure the pins ARE removed. When you
replace put a dab of grease on the pin before you install the new strut. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Have you tried tapping on it with a hammer? They can get pretty
stubborn, and that's what I've had to do. Also, make sure and use some
form of grease when you put on the new struts... it keeps the studs
from wearing down, and also makes the struts easier to remove. 
> 





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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:53:06 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Pick up coil probs

At this point just make notes on the position of the rotor and
distributer and pull it out of the motor!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> 
> Nothing ever goes smoothly for me with projects like this...It was
going so well - I knew something was going to happen.
> 





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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:25:04 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Pick up coil probs

First, remove distributor before going any further. Will be much
easier to work on bench than in car. Remove hold down nut and it will
slide right out. Mark position before removing!

To remove a stripped fastener, apply slight pressure in direction of
removal while you turn it. If accessible from side a small straight
blade screwdriver works great as miniature wedge. In this instance
you're going have to do it from above. Why not buy a small cheap
screwdriver and bend it 90 plus degrees like a miniature pry bar.
Guarantee you'll find countless future uses for it too. Have one bent
90 degrees in line with blade that I can't live without. Use it to pop
fuses, release dash knobs, etc.

Threads in distributor body are probably damaged. Easiest solution
would be to re-tap and move up to next larger bolt. Some people use JB
Weld but I've never had much success getting it to hold threaded
fasteners. 

While you're back there don't forget to replace heater core hoses. Is
a lot easier to access take off with distributor off car.

Replace O ring before re-installing distributor. Mine was 29 cents at
hardware store.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> 
> Nothing ever goes smoothly for me with projects like this...It was
going so well - I knew something was going to happen.
> 
>   I set out to replace a faulty pick-up coil in the distributor.  I
get great directions from Dave T, Dave S, and Rob Grady (thanks
all!!!).   I labeled everything and took notes and pictures.  I
removed the fuel lines and moved the air box and got to the
distributor.  Removed the wires, cap and rotor.  I can now see the
pick-up coil, but do not know how to get to it to replace it.  I see a
small spring clip.  It was a pain, but I removed it slightly mangled,
but still usable.  But I still can't get the metal plate on top of the
pick-up coil off.    So the only thing I can see to do next is remove
the three small allen bolts in there.  I loosen the first two
easily... then the third one strips!  I don't know if it was stripped
to begin with or if I did it.  Now I can't get it lose at all.  HELP!
 What to do next?  I'm totally stuck.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Hank #1619




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:10:04 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Pick up coil probs

You could try a Craftsman Screw-Out or drill out and use a screw extractor.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henry [mailto:henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 4:54 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Pick up coil probs
> 
> 
> Nothing ever goes smoothly for me with projects like this...It was going
> so well - I knew something was going to happen.
> 
>   I set out to replace a faulty pick-up coil in the distributor.  I get
> great directions from Dave T, Dave S, and Rob Grady (thanks all!!!).   I
> labeled everything and took notes and pictures.  I removed the fuel lines
> and moved the air box and got to the distributor.  Removed the wires, cap
> and rotor.  I can now see the pick-up coil, but do not know how to get to
> it to replace it.  I see a small spring clip.  It was a pain, but I
> removed it slightly mangled, but still usable.  But I still can't get the
> metal plate on top of the pick-up coil off.    So the only thing I can see
> to do next is remove the three small allen bolts in there.  I loosen the
> first two easily... then the third one strips!  I don't know if it was
> stripped to begin with or if I did it.  Now I can't get it lose at all.
> HELP!  What to do next?  I'm totally stuck.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Hank #1619




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:46:16 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Another DeLorean but in sad shape

Well I took ownership of vin 5609 but unfortunately I think its a bit beyond 
normal salvage.  
The car on the outside looks great but the frame is rusted and the dash, 
binacle, and a few other high priced items are gone.

Many of the parts are new or in good or even great condition and I need to do 
a bit of soul searching to see if I want to restore this car.  Don't worry 
there are two other people I know with good frames that are interested in seeing 
it run again.  I had to buy it for the price the steel was too good to let it 
get bye.

'Wish me luck

Ken
vin 16684
vin 5690
vin 3720 
vin (on a truck from California)

check out the web page for the DCS at 
http://deloreancarshow.com/recordings.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:48:20 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: D for sale in Wisconsin

I love vacations where I see Deloreans. On my way up into Wisconsin 
I spotted a Delorean for sale at a vintage car lot. So I checked it 
out on my way back home. Heres the details

1982 Auto /grey interior
Early 1981 wheels /original rubber (dark grey wheels)
sheep skin seat covers
really bad rust on front passenger crumple tube
rest of the frame looks ok
no updates
ok fascias
dash and interior look ok
17K miles
VIN 10247

If anyone is interested I'll call my sister and have her send me the 
phone number of the place.

Erik





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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:06:06 -0400
From: Tom Watkins <dmctom_at_dml_earthlink.net>
Subject: Engine Light Switch

John Hervey sells an all metal switch that is far more reliable than the 
stock plastic one.  It works great.  I also popped in a LED replacement 
light in the engine compartment....It's not as bright as the incandesant 
but it won't melt the light housing if left on for an extended period. 
It's the same style bulb only it's an LED.  Got it on Ebay.

Tom
#5732




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:38:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Car Show FAQ Fact Sheet

Fact Sheets come up from time to time on the list and I thought I'd share the one
I made to whom ever wants to us it. This one drops most of the specific gear head
info and answers more of the questions everyone seems to ask, at least the ones I
get anyway.

The PDF file is here for download: 
http://205.133.7.130/images/DMC_FAQ_Facts.pdf
I don't know how long it will be up so if you want it download it now. If anyone
would be willing to put it up on their website please contact me privately.

I mounted mine on mat board. It's displayed proped up against the emergency brake
handle along with a modified version of my window sticker. Since everyone bends
over to get a better look, most tend to stay and read the info. It also helps to
stop over excited little kids from hoppin on in.

If you are in the DCO you should find a copy in the next newsletter.
 

Shannon Y
VIN 16506 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com



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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:15:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: DeLorean mention on Monster Garage

The Monster Garage episode tonight was a "making of" which explained how
the show started and what goes on behind the scenes. In a clip of Jesse
and the producers brainstorming in a conference room, somebody mentioned a
hovercraft DeLorean. It sounded like they were talking about a job that
they could do, and not mentioning Rich's project.

I can see good and bad coming of a DeLorean project on Monster Garage. On
the upside, there's more exposure for the DeLorean, and hopefully
(although not likely) some sort of "John DeLorean isn't a coke dealer"
mention. On the downside, that's one less DeLorean and there's a lot of
room there for cocky drug jokes.

If they do it, hopefully one of the list memebers can get in - possibly
Rich or Dan Danknick. And if it's done, hopefully I can score a battery
compartment cover and one of those rear screens.

-Christian




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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:43:17 EDT
From: BondAtomic_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Monster Garage

For a long time, I have wanted to see a DeLorean on Monster Garage. For all 
of you that don't know what Monster Garage is, it is one of the greatest shows 
of all time. Ordinary vehicles are turned into extraordinary machines. I 
suggest you check it out. 
     Anyway, I have always believed the DeLorean to be one of the best 
customizable vehicles ever.

Ask Curtis.

     This week, they have an episode to show the making and all that good 
stuff for Monster Garage. As I am watching, the producers are coming up with 
ideas for the show, which was filmed a while ago. One fellow says "And the 
DeLorean hovercraft" and then another says "Miata." and other vehicles are said.

Personally, I love DeLoreans. Mine is an all original/stock car with low 
miles. I'll keep it this way. But if I were to have a second, I'm sure it would 
have yellow paint and the Northstar V8 in no time. Stock or custom, DeLoreans 
are badass. This is the reason why Monster Garage would be good for the 
DeLorean.

I don't know what else to say.
John
4275


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:34:14 EDT
From: deloreanss_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: ETDOC August 9, Gatlinburg, Tn

Hey all,

These are the final details. We are staying, as usual, at the Park Vista 
Resort in Gatlinburg the night of August 9th. I have gotten us a group rate and 
that is $82.00 plus tax, just as in the past. Everyone who is planning on 
attending needs to contact the hotel and reserve your room, just mention that you 
are with the ETDOC. The phone number is 1-800-421-PARK. I encourage everyone who 
can to attend. We will be having our usual Saturday night 
dinner/swimming/party followed by Sunday morning's drive, which will include a trip down the 
Dragon (the curviest road anywhere, ever). If you'd like to join up with myself 
and Sean Howley earlier in the day on Saturday, he and I are planning on putting 
something together (maybe he'll be showing off his just completed Porsche 550 
Spyder). Just let me know if you are planning on attending, email me directly 
DeLoreanSS_at_dml_aol.com and I will send any directions or whatever else you may 
need.

John Weaver
ETDOC
RED DMC #10527


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:30:33 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: Angle Torque & head bolts

When reattaching the head, the manual recommends that once they're torqued
to the proper setting, you should angle torque 113 degrees. I've been
researching angle torque and have a pretty good understanding of it now but
what I'm wondering is if anyone has actually applied this method?

Also, since the bolt is stretched during angle torque (and since the method
usually applies to throw away bolts), does this facilitate replacing the
head bolts?

Has anyone heard of a reused head bolt shearing off in the head and causing
damage?





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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:53:09 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Pick up coil probs

I'm puzzled.... are you doing this with the distributor still in the 
engine? Sheesh, that's a tough way to do it :-) You need to remove the 
vacuum advance diaphragm, and un plug the ignition feed to be able to 
lift out the insides. You also have to remove the two circlips on the 
main shaft. They can be extremely stubborn and a pain to strip down even 
when you have the distributor out!

If you get really stuck, I have a good secondhand DeLorean dizzy on the 
shelf.

Martin
#1458
#4426
DeLorean Motors UK

Henry wrote:

>Nothing ever goes smoothly for me with projects like this...It was going so well - I knew something was going to happen.
>
>  I set out to replace a faulty pick-up coil in the distributor.  I get great directions from Dave T, Dave S, and Rob Grady (thanks all!!!).   I labeled everything and took notes and pictures.  I removed the fuel lines and moved the air box and got to the distributor.  Removed the wires, cap and rotor.  I can now see the pick-up coil, but do not know how to get to it to replace it.  I see a small spring clip.  It was a pain, but I removed it slightly mangled, but still usable.  But I still can't get the metal plate on top of the pick-up coil off.    So the only thing I can see to do next is remove the three small allen bolts in there.  I loosen the first two easily... then the third one strips!  I don't know if it was stripped to begin with or if I did it.  Now I can't get it lose at all.  HELP!  What to do next?  I'm totally stuck.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Hank #1619
>
>
>
>  
>





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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:58:23 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Pick up coil probs

You really can't rely on painted marks and should time up the engine 
properly after reassembly. You can't remove the distributor without 
taking the intake manifold off

Martin

David Teitelbaum wrote:

>At this point just make notes on the position of the rotor and
>distributer and pull it out of the motor!
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757
>
>  
>





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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:27:16 -0000
From: "deloreanchuck" <chuckkay_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sluggish acceleration

DAVID,
    I'M THE CHIEF MECHANIC OF 10610 (FATHER OF THE DELOREAN). THE 
FREQUENCY VALVE WAS NOT BUZZING. THE VALVE IS NEW ABOUT 1000 MILES 
AGO BY THE PROIR OWNER. I STARTED CHECKING OUT THE ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT 
AND WHAT I FOUND WAS THAT THE LAMBDA RELAY WAS THE WRONG ONE.    IT 
WAS A SINGLE POLE DOUBLE THROW. IT SHOULD BE A DOUBLE POLE SINGLE 
THROW. THE COMPUTER AND FREQUENCY VALVE GET POWER AT THE SAME TIME.  
I REPLACED THE RELAY AND IT STARTED BUZZING.  FUEL ECONOMY GREATLY 
IMPROVED.  
    THE ENGINE STILL DOES NOT RUN WELL ON WARMUP (EXCELERATION). MY 
NEXT STEP IS TO CHECK THE VACUUM TO THE WARMUP REG.

                                  CHUCK 10610 (DAD)
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> Make sure the frequency valve on the right valve cover is buzzing. 
Fix
> ALL vacuum leaks. Check the timing and mechanical and vacuum 
advance.
> If the car hasn't been tuned-up in a long time replace the spark 
plugs
> and ignition wires.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > Dear List,
> >     I noticed in the mornings when my D has been sitting out for 
the 
> > night. The car starts right up, and I can zoom off as fast as I 
> > please. But when I am leaving my neighborhood and turning into 
the 
> > main road. My car then begins to "hold back." I will step on the 
> > accelerator, and my car will not get up to speed like it did a 
few 
> > minutes ago. And this problem happening throughout the day.
> >    Please help.
> >      ~Kramer
> >      #10610




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:00:16 -0400
From: "Dan Saulnier" <dps_at_dml_seacon.com>
Subject: RE: Door Struts


I recently changed out my door struts, and even a piece of wood and a hammer couldn't budge them.  Then I squirted a bit of oil in there and they popped right off.

Dan.
VIN 5804

> 
> Message: 17
>    Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:43:35 -0700
>    From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
> Subject: RE: Door Struts
> 
> AJ & Barbara, I have a two inch wood piece that's about 3/4" thick, I slip
> it between the strut rod and body and give it a tap while I'm holding the
> door up or someone else is. Pops right off without hurting anything.
> The black louver can be painted with different brands and shades of black. I
> used Krylon semi flat black and held the spray back a little futher to give
> it that matted look.
> John Hervey
> www.specialtauto.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: barbara0062 [mailto:phoenix_at_dml_eticomm.net]
> > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:51 AM
> > To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [DML] Door Struts
> > 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I'm having problems changing the drivers side door strut. I took the
> > pins out and the strut won't budge. Also whats the best thing to use
> > on the plastic louvres that cover the back window. Is there anything
> > else I can do to make the car look nice because I'm taking it to a
> > car show.
> > 
> > AJ & Barbara





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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:57:37 -0400
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Pick up coil probs

> I'm puzzled.... are you doing this with the distributor still in the 
> engine? Sheesh, that's a tough way to do it :-)

Yes, I've learned the errors of my ways.  I've now removed the distributor from the engine.  I haven't done a project like this before and while everyone offered really great suggestions/directions along the way, nobody said "remove the distributor from the engine" until today.  ;)   I'm a smart guy, and I know that might be obvious to some of you, but I'm learning as I go.  The last time I had an engine apart like this was my 1967 mustang 289 V8 - but that was 20 years ago and a much simpler engine (especially getting to the distributor!!!!)

-Hank #1619






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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:09:14 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Angle Torque & head bolts

This falls under the "just don't do it" rule
of auto mechanics.  Head bolts are cheap compared
to what can happen if one fails.  Just don't reuse 
them.

Measuring torque on a fastener is an indirect method
of measuring the amount of tension applied to 
the fastener.  It's an approximation, since there are
a number of factors that influence the torque reading 
on a wrench.  The condition of the threads, the 
condition of the surfaces of the bolt head and nut,
any lubricants on the threads, thread locker or 
anti-sieze all have an effect on torque readings.
Measuring angle torque removes a lot of these other
influences.  The angle the fastener is rotated
is a direct measure of the stretch in a bolt because
the thread pitch is known.  In racing applications where 
both ends of the fastener are accessible, mechanics actually 
measure the length of the fastener before torquing and
after to ensure the correct amount of stretch is 
achieved.


--
Mike

> When reattaching the head, the manual recommends that once they're torqued
> to the proper setting, you should angle torque 113 degrees. I've been
> researching angle torque and have a pretty good understanding of it now but
> what I'm wondering is if anyone has actually applied this method?
> 



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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:30:13 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: Delorean Mid Atlantic Summer Fun Run web page

The Mid-Atlantic club's summer fun run 2003 web page is now online!
Click the link below to check it out!
 
http://www.deloreanmidatlantic.com/updates/updates.htm
 
Kevin Abato
Vin# 16680


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:39:39 -0400
From: "michael townsley" <townfour_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: A/C System Questions.

Jim:

Did you give the A/C Shop some type of specification for making up the new
hoses prior to threading the new hoses through the frame I assume using the
old ones? If so I would appreciate a copy....If not how were you able to
thread the new cables through the frame if the old ones had already been
removed so the A/C shop could fabricate the new ones?

Mike Townsley
2 Fox Hill Road
Old Saybrook, Connecticut 06475
860 304 2412
townfour_at_dml_mindspring.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Strickland [mailto:ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:35 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] A/C System Questions.

I replaced both of the AC hoses in my car-  Same story as Jonas, but mine
cost $50 for each hose.  I also had them put in a male/female inline
connector so that i could "thread" the hoses through the frame without
lifting the body from the frame.  It changed a day job into an hour job. 

If you take off the old hoses, you can bring them into an AC repair shop
and they should be able to reconstruct something of the same length.

Jim 
1537


On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Jonas Pitchford
<Delorean3543_at_dml_yahoo.com> writes:
> I had my low side hose replaced for about 100.00, The proper hose 
> usually sells by the inch. It was done by a local A/C shop and they 
> had one of the fittings in stock. The other one (the one that goes 
> to the compressor) was cut off of my old hose, they pressed a 
> standard fitting onto the end of the hose and then welded my old one 
> to that one. Everything has worked fine since.
> Jonas
> 3543 
> 
> 


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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:33:16 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Angle Torque & head bolts

Bah. I've reused them in all of the engines I've pulled heads on.
Ford, Toyota, Renault, International Harvester and now the PRV.

You just can't go crazy on them. I certainly agree I wouldn't do it in
a high-performance or racing environment or if I was trying to make a
concours DeLorean but if you're just putting an engine back together
for everyday use, I think it's fine.

Just my 2 Mhz. ;-)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> This falls under the "just don't do it" rule
> of auto mechanics.  Head bolts are cheap compared
> to what can happen if one fails.  Just don't reuse 
> them.
> 
> Measuring torque on a fastener is an indirect method
> of measuring the amount of tension applied to 
> the fastener.  It's an approximation, since there are
> a number of factors that influence the torque reading 
> on a wrench.  The condition of the threads, the 
> condition of the surfaces of the bolt head and nut,
> any lubricants on the threads, thread locker or 
> anti-sieze all have an effect on torque readings.
> Measuring angle torque removes a lot of these other
> influences.  The angle the fastener is rotated
> is a direct measure of the stretch in a bolt because
> the thread pitch is known.  In racing applications where 
> both ends of the fastener are accessible, mechanics actually 
> measure the length of the fastener before torquing and
> after to ensure the correct amount of stretch is 
> achieved.
> 
> 
> --
> Mike
> 
> > When reattaching the head, the manual recommends that once they're
torqued
> > to the proper setting, you should angle torque 113 degrees. I've been
> > researching angle torque and have a pretty good understanding of
it now but
> > what I'm wondering is if anyone has actually applied this method?
> >




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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:48:06 -0500
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Angle Torque & head bolts

Measuring torque with a torque wrench is referred to as a static torque
reading and as Mike points out it's affected by a variety of issues which
makes it's accuracy somewhat unpredictable. In the auto industry critical
joints are measured with a transducer built into the tightening tool which
measures dynamic torque and sometimes angle and is shut off upon reaching the prescribed specification via a computor. When a group of fasteners, such as head bolts, are being tightened the clamping pressure relaxes as the tightening sequence moves from one fastener to another. An example is the tightening of wheel nuts. If you tighten one at a time and the first is tightened to, say, 90nm, when the nut opposite it is brought to 90 nm the original tightened joint's clamping pressure will relax below what's specified. For that reason factory tightened joints like this are done with a pre-torque followed by a final torque. Angle is introduced when joints are extremely critical and clamping pressure must be uniform. In modern engines the head bolts are taken to a beyond yield point for maximum clamp load. Because they,ve been tightened beyond yield they need to be replaced after the head has been removed. Measuring angle is much more accurate than trying to achieve the somewhat variable static torque. The key to remember is a torque spec is given to achive a clamp load on the joint. The clamp load is the important thing. If the threads are rough a static torque may be right but the clamp load might be too light.

Bruce Benson



> Measuring torque on a fastener is an indirect method
> of measuring the amount of tension applied to
> the fastener.  It's an approximation, since there are
> a number of factors that influence the torque reading
> on a wrench.  > --
> Mike
>
>




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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:20:31 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Copyright laws

What are the rules regarding material taken from the DeLorean Workshop
Manual?

Do you just have to credit where the info came from? Do you have to
get permission? Who from since the company is out of business?

I want to incorporate a few quotes and sketches from the manual into
an article I'm writing.




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:22:08 -0000
From: "jberam1" <jberam_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Clean the fuel tank?

While I was away at school, my Delorean sat with about 
a half tank of gas. This was probably since around 
November/December, a little bit over nine months (I originally had 
arranged for someone to drive the car every two weeks but that fell 
through after I'd already left for school and, unfortunately, I 
never had a chance to drain the tank or put a fuel stabilizer like 
Stabil in it).

Today I removed the baffle in the luggage compartment and took the 
fuel sending unit out and the gas itself looks alright, it hadn't 
turned into tar or anything (although I guess that doesn't really 
mean much as there could be sludge at the bottom of the tank). I 
think I read somewhere on these boards that gas can sit around for 
at least six months without getting contaminated and screwing the 
fuel line. I was wondering if this was a conservative estimate; do 
you guys think that my car has been sitting long enough to justify 
doing the fuel tank drain/clean at all, or is it unnecessary?

And if I do decide to go through with the draining/cleaning process, 
(and I'm using the DMCNews thread at 
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/message/32116 for my 
reference) how exactly do I "go after it" with my Berryman's B12? I 
understand the whole process fine up until the point where I have to 
clean the tank through the 3" fuel sending unit hole. I can't really 
fit my hand through it. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.




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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:25:55 -0000
From: "dcsj4465" <dcsj_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Re: Idle Speed ECU

First of all why are you asking this Question? What are your symptoms?

Here is a recent senario that I just fixed on someone elses car.

Symptoms were:

Car would start Ok when cold. Then run rough for acouple minutes and 
clear up. Idle around 800-900 rpm. Once engine was hot it would idle 
around 1200 rpm. If the car was shut off for a minute it would not 
start without pressing on the gas pedal somewhat.

I doing the diagnosis. I had referenced a recent article in DCS 
magazine written by David Teitlebaum. THANKS DAVE!! Stating that if 
you unplug the Idle speed motor. while the engine is running it 
should DIE. needless to say when I tried that NOTHING happened. That 
puzzled me,But I went on checking other things out. Finally I decided 
to start swapping Components from my own car. First was  the Idle 
ECU, Result was no Change. Next was the Idle speed Motor, Result BIG 
change every thing worked properly Idle was 775rpm and engine started 
normally just by turning the key as it should. I put the orig ISM 
back on to verify my findings. As expected all the old symptoms 
returned. AS a side note you could HEAR the motor buzzing as though 
it were working. I took it back off then did some comparing with my 
good unit. I found the rotor valve to be frozen. After I decided to 
replace it I opened the unit up and found that the upper end of the 
armiture shaft had severly rusted into the bearing. I worked with 
until it was loose using WD-40. I got it freed up enough that it 
would operate somewhat normally. I reinstalled it and everything 
seemed to be working fine for a short time. But ultimately it would 
start to become erradic as the lubrication evaporated with the engine 
heat.  The New unit is installed now and everything runs as 
advertised. and Yes If you pull the plug off the ISM it will DIE! 


We also found that with the ISM not functioning that the Idle speed 
micro switch also operates the vacuum solinoid controlling vacuum to 
the distributor advance and will cause the the Idle to drop from the 
1200 rpm to about 800-900 rpm if it is depressed. making you think 
the idle speed system is working. when it isn't.
  
So the Moral to the story is Don't assume you have a faulty IDLE ECU 
just because you have a verying Idle Speeds

Hope this Helps somebody out.

Dennis  5180 GULLWNG 


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Does anyone have the schematic for the idle speed ECU?
> 
> Do they fail in any particular modes?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dave
> 6530
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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