From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1595
Date: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 AM

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There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

2. RE: Angle Torque & head bolts
From: "miltdanfoss" <d_at_dml_nfoss.com>

3. DML-specific virus attacks
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

4. Idle ECU
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

5. shocks
From: dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com

6. Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$
From: "Charlie g" <charlie_az_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Re: A/C System Questions.
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. RE: shocks
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

9. Re: shocks
From: FSMinc_at_dml_juno.com

10. Re: Clean the fuel tank?
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

11. Re: Copyright laws
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. Re: Angle Torque & head bolts
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

13. Metal coolant bottle?
From: "at88mph" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

14. Idle / Ignition system
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:54:51 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)

As announced yesterday in our email newsletter, the reprint of an updated
edition of Stainless Steel Illusion is moving forward, with the book now at
the printers, and advance orders now being accepted.

Printed from the original films provided by the original publisher, a new
16-page chapter at the end of the book written by longtime DML'er Ryan
McCaffrey (and assistant editor for Xbox Magazine) chronicles developments
in the DeLorean community since the book was first published in 1983. This
will be a hardcover book with a dustjacket just like the original!

Delivery of the new edition is expected the first part of November of this
year, and orders place prior to then WILL NOT BE CHARGED until the book is
actually shipped. Get more details at:

http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396

281/441-2537 Voice
281/441-2813 Fax
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com 




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:10:48 -0000
From: "miltdanfoss" <d_at_dml_nfoss.com>
Subject: RE: Angle Torque & head bolts

There is a very interesting article in this month's Popular Mechanics 
about angle torqueing.

It is worth mentioning that the article states that it is a 
completely different method than the regular kind of torqueing and 
this method uses a different material bolt for the head bolts and 
that part of what one is doing is stretching the bolt, and therefore 
they shouldn't be reused because there is too great a risk with 
snapping them.

I too have always reused my head bolts (10 engines that I've 
rebuilt). I also reused the ones on the DeLorean engine when I 
rebuilt it. This was the first time angle torqueing was required. It 
made the tightening very scary! I would say the angle torque is a 
heck of a lot higher than with the other method. I'd be curious to 
know what the torque it translates to in foot pounds -- I needed an 
assist bar to get it all the way to the proper angle.

My opinion is that if you are that far into the engine, you might as 
well spend a little more money and time and replace the head bolts. I 
will if I ever have to do it again.

For what it's worth,
Dan in Cocoa, FL (3932)




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:55:56 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: DML-specific virus attacks

The DML normally does not post virus or spam warnings. However, 
there appears to be instances of DML-specific virus attacks from 
sources masquerading as DML traffic.

The DML avoids transmitting viruses to subscribers by disallowing 
attachments to messages. You should receive no DML message that 
includes an attachment, and if you do get messages that appear to be 
from the DML that includes attachments you should treat them as 
suspect and with approrpaite virus precaution.

     Knut





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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:02:58 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Idle ECU

I was asked about the symptoms...Here are the symptoms of 6530.  First she 
starts up perfectly all the time and every time.  She idles at about 1200 for a 
while then starts hunting up and down between 800 and 1200.  If I disconnect 
the ISM when it is at 800, it stays at 800.  If I disconnect it when its up at 
1200 it stays at 1200. (From my understanding this should be normal because 
whatever position the rotary vane/valve is in when you disconnect power to it, 
it should stay there...or is this not correct?) Anyway it idles smoothly with 
no hunting when the ISM power is disconnected.  I drove it in stop and highway 
traffic for 40 miles this past weekend and I was satisfied.  The only problem 
was that since I had it disconnected at about 800 rpm, sometimes with the A/C 
headlights cooling fans, etc., it would almost stall...but it never did.  When 
I started it up the next morning it started right up but stalled out unless I 
feed it some gas until it warmed up.

I don't understand why you say the engine should die if the power to the ISM 
is disconnected, unless it is meant to close automatically?

Dave & 6530




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:01:47 -0500 (GMT)
From: dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com
Subject: shocks

Does anyone have any experience with the Monroe or KYB replacement shocks?
Are they any good? compared to girling? compared to PJ? compared to DMCH?

Thanks....



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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:12:18 -0000
From: "Charlie g" <charlie_az_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$

Im sorry but why mess with a allready good read..




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:32:55 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: A/C System Questions.

Low pressure side shares space with heater core lines. That's why so
much tighter.

High pressure barbs must be made of steel. Brass just won't cut it.
Maxes out 125-150 psi. Steel barbs are rated in thousands of psi, but
I still find that hard to believe. Hundreds maybe, but thousands?

Personally have found "porous hose" reasoning to be untrue. My Two
Tone Lincoln is running with a low side hose from a '72 Galaxy no
problem. Old O rings are probably more to blame.

Schrader valves get old and leak too.

Ultimately boils down to cost of freon vs making system factory tight
again. For example: on the Lincoln I just bought, compression nut is
rusted to condensor input tube. Tried to hold with some vise grips
(not tight enough to collapse line), but it still wanted to turn with
nut. Wasn't worth potential damage to condensor to replace that O
ring, so I left alone. System may well leak there, but at $3.50 a can
(NAPA case quantity) I don't lose any sleep.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_j...>
wrote:
> I do NOT have specifications for the length/fittings, etc.  
> 
> I took out the old hoses and they built new ones from the old ones.
 Like
> was mentioned, the connector on the compressor side is rare and often
> needs to be reused.
> 
> About "threading" in the new hoses, the high pressure side went right in
> because of the side of the hose relative to the space between the frame
> and body.  The hose is stiff, so it just pushed through by hand.  You
> only have to make sure it doesn't catch on any bolts when pushing it
> through.  
> 
> The low pressure side is another story, as it is really snug in there. 
> Mine was at least.  I had the AC shop replace the stock 5/8th inch hose
> (i think) with 1/2 inch hose (i think).  It went in easier than the old
> one came out.  They guys at the shop said that the hose change shouldn't
> be a problem, and now that the AC is working again, I'd tend to agree-
> it's working just fine.  
> 
> If anyone else is going to do this, make sure the male end of the
in-line
> connector is the one that you are pushing through the frame, as it is
> much smaller than the female connector.
> 
> Also, some people swear by their hose-clamped AC reliability- that
> they're just as good and cheaper.  The high-pressure hose that I had
hose
> clamped blew apart, and that's why I think the in-line high pressure
> connector is a great idea.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:39:39 -0400 "michael townsley"
> <townfour_at_dml_m...> writes:
> > Jim:
> > 
> > Did you give the A/C Shop some type of specification for making up 
> > the new
> > hoses prior to threading the new hoses through the frame I assume 
> > using the
> > old ones? If so I would appreciate a copy....If not how were you 
> > able to
> > thread the new cables through the frame if the old ones had already 
> > been
> > removed so the A/C shop could fabricate the new ones?
> > 
> > Mike Townsley
> > 2 Fox Hill Road
> > Old Saybrook, Connecticut 06475
> > 860 304 2412
> > townfour_at_dml_m...
> >  
> > 
> 
> <snip -- excess quoted material trimmed>




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:29:38 -0500
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: shocks

doh! forgot one comparison: to midwest club setup?
thanks......


-----Original Message-----
From: dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com [mailto:dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:02 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] shocks


Does anyone have any experience with the Monroe or KYB replacement shocks?
Are they any good? compared to girling? compared to PJ? compared to DMCH?

Thanks....


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:05:18 GMT
From: FSMinc_at_dml_juno.com
Subject: Re: shocks


I just put the Monroe gasmatic shocks (I beleive I'm reading the box correctly that it is model "59016" GM)  on the front wheels and they seem fine.   They are about $20 a pair at any auto store.   My prior shocks were shot and very old if not original.  My D has only 6k on it.  Its been driven regularly about 20 miles a month.   



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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 02:14:56 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Clean the fuel tank?

9 months usually will not be enough for the gas to go bad if it was 
sitting in a garage out of direct heat and weather. You can also 
tell if the gas has turned bad by the smell - you indicated it 
seemed ok - how did it smell? Since it is at half tank I would think 
it is low risk to fill the rest of the tank with fresh gas and start 
it. Max I would do based on your comments is just do a hand pump 
drain (there are plastic pumps available for less than $20) then 
fill it with fresh gas and get going.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "jberam1" <jberam_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> While I was away at school, my Delorean sat with about 
> a half tank of gas. This was probably since around 
> November/December, a little bit over nine months (I originally had 
> arranged for someone to drive the car every two weeks but that 
fell 
> through after I'd already left for school and, unfortunately, I 
> never had a chance to drain the tank or put a fuel stabilizer like 
> Stabil in it).
> 
> Today I removed the baffle in the luggage compartment and took the 
> fuel sending unit out and the gas itself looks alright, it hadn't 
> turned into tar or anything (although I guess that doesn't really 
> mean much as there could be sludge at the bottom of the tank). I 
> think I read somewhere on these boards that gas can sit around for 
> at least six months without getting contaminated and screwing the 
> fuel line. I was wondering if this was a conservative estimate; do 
> you guys think that my car has been sitting long enough to justify 
> doing the fuel tank drain/clean at all, or is it unnecessary?
> 
> And if I do decide to go through with the draining/cleaning 
process, 
> (and I'm using the DMCNews thread at 
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/message/32116 for my 
> reference) how exactly do I "go after it" with my Berryman's B12? 
I 
> understand the whole process fine up until the point where I have 
to 
> clean the tank through the 3" fuel sending unit hole. I can't 
really 
> fit my hand through it. Any advice would be much appreciated. 
Thanks.




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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:07:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Copyright laws

Usually a credit is fine, though some publishers use a
gag clause to limit this and one has to write for
permission. I never use gag clauses in my publishing
contaracts but others infact do. Do not assume that
just because a company is no longer in business that
the meterial falls under public domain. some contracts
have a predetermined length of time. A document with
writen permission is your best protection. If I cannot
personaly aquire a writen and signed release from the
said copywrite holder I will not use the quote. Just
my .02 from a publisher :D

Todd
Vin 5386
--- cruznmd <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com> wrote:
> What are the rules regarding material taken from the
> DeLorean Workshop
> Manual?
> 
> Do you just have to credit where the info came from?
> Do you have to
> get permission? Who from since the company is out of
> business?
> 
> I want to incorporate a few quotes and sketches from
> the manual into
> an article I'm writing.
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
For up to the minute details on the restoration of Vin5386 point your browser to, http://www.khpindustries.com/stainlessrestorations.html

__________________________________
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:05:17 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Angle Torque & head bolts

Before reusing head bolts or any other critical fastener (like rod
bolts) they should be measured for length and at several places along
the bolt for diameter. If you have no idea of the history of the
engine or are considering upgrading the engine's performance then it
is penny wise and pound foolish not to upgrade the fasteners. On the
Delorean, IMHO after using the angle method of torqueing which puts
the fastener much closer to the elastic limit, it is not a great idea
to reuse the head bolts. The idea behind torqueing of bolts is to
impose a stress on the fastener higher then the stress it will see in
service so it cannot go through cycles of stress which will result in
fatigue. This works until you try to reuse the fastener in which case
you are now cycling it through the stress of multiple torqueings. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "miltdanfoss" <d_at_dml_n...> wrote:
> There is a very interesting article in this month's Popular Mechanics 
> about angle torqueing.
> 
> It is worth mentioning that the article states that it is a 
> completely different method than the regular kind of torqueing and 
> this method uses a different material bolt for the head bolts and 
> that part of what one is doing is stretching the bolt, and therefore 
> they shouldn't be reused because there is too great a risk with 
> snapping them.
> 





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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:37:05 -0500
From: "at88mph" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Metal coolant bottle?

Before I buy one from the regular vendors, I was just wondering if anyone
has a metal coolant bottle laying around they would wana sell.  If so,
please feel free to email me! :)

Thanks!




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:07:37 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Idle / Ignition system

OK, while playing around with the ignition / idle system of 6530 I noted 
something very interesting.  As I previous stated, the tachometer makes small 
jumps upward, intermittently.  I accidentally touched the wire that goes to the 
negative side of the ignition coil primary circuit (color WS) and noted that I 
was getting intermittent shocks.  These shocks were at the same time that the 
tach jumped!  When I connected a small neon bulb (i.e., an NE-2 for you 
engineering types), the bulb would blink intermittently along with the jumping of the 
tach. (Hey I got fed up with getting jolted so I substituted the bulb 
instead.) Remember that the engine RPM is NOT jumping only the tach is.  I suppose 
the tach is getting these voltage spikes and that is why it is jumping and maybe 
these spikes are affecting the idle ECU controller.  The spike occur only at 
low RPM up to about 1400 rpm.

Does anyone have a clue as to what to do next?

Dave & 6530 thank you...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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