From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1598
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:16 AM

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There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: pick up coil replacement...
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

2. Re: pick up coil replacement...
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

3. Re: Let's Play "Name That Part!"
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

4. Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$
From: Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_rocketmail.com>

6. Re: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Exclusive Distributor of SSI? Not really.
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Re: Let's Play "Name That Part!"
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

9. Standard operating temprature and gauge reading
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Climate control and auto shifter lights on all the time
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Heads are on..
From: "Jeff Phillips" <jeff.phillips_at_dml_scott.af.mil>

12. Out.
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:40:01 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: pick up coil replacement...

It doesn't take much to check the timing - you may be lucky, but chances 
are it'll be off by 0.5-1 degree.

Martin

Henry wrote:

>
>I do have one more question.  Since I replaced the distributor and rotor in the exact location (or as close as humanly possible), and the car is running very well, should I still go ahead and re-set the timing?  How off can it be, if at all?
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Hank #1619
>
>  
>





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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:42:25 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: pick up coil replacement...

Yes. Or at least put a light on it. Extremely little distributor
rotation can yield many degrees of effect.

Have a very long 11mm wrench I use to loosen distributor nut. Even
without idle speed motor in the way, makes it much easier. Can time
#5939 in less than a minute (after warmed up).

That said, I do have two vehicles timed by ear...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> 
> ..was a complete success.
> 
> I sent my distributor with the stripped nut to Rob Grady to repair
and replace the pick up coil.  He sent it back in record time.  I
popped it back in, placing the rotor exactly where it was when I
removed it, and bolted down the distributor in exact location that I
had marked.  Re-installed everything, hooked up the fuel lines, made a
few "final checks" to make sure I didn't forget anything, and the
engine fired right up and ran like a top for 10-15 minutes while I
warmed it up.  Even WITHOUT setting the timing, the engine seems to be
running very smoothly (as good as it was before).  I can rev it up to
4000 RPM and it's steady as a rock.
> 
> Thanks to all who helped - I appreciate this community without whom
I wouldn't have been able to complete this fun project.  It was a pain
at times, sure.. but once everything just fired up and ran, it was a
joy.  
> 
> I do have one more question.  Since I replaced the distributor and
rotor in the exact location (or as close as humanly possible), and the
car is running very well, should I still go ahead and re-set the
timing?  How off can it be, if at all?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -Hank #1619




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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:04:45 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Let's Play "Name That Part!"

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> On occasion, I have heard reference made to an "auxiliary air 
valve".
> 
> As far apart as I have had my engine, I can't believe I haven't 
seen 
> this thing, nor can I find it in any parts lists.
> 
> I have finally seen one on Ebay for sale, (looks new too). This 
thing 
> doesn't look familiar to me. It looks like it has an electrical 
plug 
> on the end as well but I'm not sure.
> 
> I must be stupid or something. Can someone please tell me WHERE on 
> the engine this thing goes, what it does, what symptoms it causes 
if 
> it fails, where to get one, and a part number???
> 
> Humbly yours,
> 
> Rich
> #5335

What you're looking at there is a primative version of the Idle Speed 
Motor. This is a two wire version that only opens, and uses tension 
from a spring to hold it closed. Versus the later design that the 
DeLorean has, that uses 3 wires that control an actual rotary valve.

Better still, this is a perfect example of why you do NOT buy 
aftermarket parts from no-name people on the internet. I've seen door 
struts, shock absorbers, fuel distributors, idle speed motors, and a 
whole slew of other parts that fit the DeLorean on eBay alone. Even 
carparts.com listed incompatable parts for the DeLorean. Everything 
from blackout covers for the headlights, to air deflectors for a 
moonroof!

A red flag on all of these auctions are their wording that there are 
no garantees that the parts will properly fit. Just like this auction 
here that says, "We strive to give accurate descriptions.", which is 
only a nice way of saying, "We can't promise that it's going to work, 
therefore we assume no liability." Another clue is that for all of 
the other cars listed that this part will fit, NOT 1 IS A PRV! All 
other motors listed are Volvo I-4's.

So unless you know for a fact that it's a genuine DeLorean part, then 
avoid these crap eBay auctions. And if for somereason you decide to 
use cross-over parts, then buy them from a real auto parts store. 
Most of the time, you won't need to pay for S&H if they have a parts 
network. And it's S&H that can actually drive up the price of the 
item to make it more expensive for you, than if you had just gone to 
a retail location to begin with.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:52:54 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$

In a message dated 7/26/03 12:06:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
louie_at_dml_delorean.com writes:


> What I *DO* have a problem with is DMC-Houston trying to be the sole 
> distributor of the book. It should be available to everyone, everywhere

The book business is pretty ruthless. Any book that isn't selling by the 
wagonload is yanked and ends up out of print and in cheapy book outlets, unless 
it's a perennial classic.  And even then, bookstores want to buy them at half 
the cover price to make a profit.  The DMCH price is reasonable.  For them to 
sell it at half price to bookstores seems a money-losing proposition. 
BTW, if you give a book, even a brand new one, to a library, they will only 
put it out if they think there is interest. Otherwise, straight to the out of 
circulation booksale with a 25 cent price tag.  My son just picked up a $100.+ 
organic chemistry book that way. 

Wayne
11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:11:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$

"What I *DO* have a problem with is DMC-Houston trying
to be the sole 
distributor of the book. It should be available to
everyone, everywhere."

Why have a problem with DMCH being the sole
distributor?
They've done all the work getting permission to
publish it and organising the logistics of it.Why
shouldn't they have the right to be the sole
distributor? Any one can buy products from them.I live
on the other side of the world and buy most of my
parts there.Nearly all the parts for the cars
originate from them so why should this book be any
different?
This book has been out of print for 20 years.Do you
think that the knowledge and interest in the car has
diminished in those proceeding years?I would argue
quite the opposite.Thanks to BTTF and this mailing
list (which I have referrred many would be enthusiats
too) has not only helped keep " the dream" alive but
made it stronger.One book won't change
that.Realistically who is going to want to  buy the
book who isn't already interested in the car?
I think its great news this book will once again
become available and I thank DMCH for bringing it
back.

Andrew
VIN 2883
Sydney,Aus.


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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second Edition)$$$

Ryan,

Did you have final say on what would be printed??  

Will this new chapter be an advertisement for DMCH,
like so many of the articles in their magazine?  I
should reserve judgment until I read it..  

Reprint of this book will only serve to get the book
to car enthusiasts who don't want to pay the high
price of SSI used, while "screwing" the people who
paid in some cases over $200 for this book.  I have my
doubts that the casual reader will even know that this
book is available, and if it is sold in malls at book
stores how many non DMC enthusiasts do you think care
to read it?

This is a good warning to all you people out there
hoarding parts, expecting to get big money for them; 
You never know when someone is going to make your item
worthless. Weather it is a good thing or bad thing
depends on which side of the deal your on! :)

** I got my SSI for $30 at a car show, so I have no
personal interest either way.


--- ryanjm10014 <ryanjm_at_dml_cox.net> wrote:
> Gee Charlie, do you think you could at least wait
> until you've read 
> the new chapter before panning it? :)
> 
> Ryan McCaffrey
> VIN #10014
> Addendum author, "Stainless Steel Illusion (2003
> edition)"
>

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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:04:11 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Exclusive Distributor of SSI? Not really.

I think you're misunderstanding the term here, Louie. DMC (Texas) 
entered into an agreement with the original publisher that they would 
have the book reprinted with the new addition and sell them to us to 
distribute. Two of the three vendors have already ordered books to 
resell, but beyond that, major retailers (Barnes & Noble, Amazon, B. 
Dalton, etc) all want a HUGE (up to 70% or more) discount off of 
retail to carry them, and then anything they don't sell after a 
period of time, they will want us to buy back. We'll sell them to 
anyone for any purpose (personal reading, donating to a 
library/school, resell on Ebay - whatever) but only at a price that 
we determine - not a price that Amazon or Barnes & Noble wants to pay.

And on the subject of school/library donations - I'm working on 
something to make it worthwhile to consider buying an extra copy to 
donate. My step-mother is a librarian in the 3rd largest city in 
Arizona, and she tells me library budgets are pretty low on the 
priority list - probably even more so for school libraries.

James

Louie wrote:
 >What I *DO* have a problem with is DMC-Houston trying to be the sole
 >distributor of the book. It should be available to everyone,
 >everywhere. Let's face it... only people who know a lot about the
 > DeLorean car will know to get the book through DMC-H.




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:54:12 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Let's Play "Name That Part!"

An auxiliary air valve is to a DeLorean as duce and a half stakes 
are to a truck. No such thing. The reference is to a modification 
applied from another PRV application in place of the idle speed 
motor and its supporting pieces. A modification that is usually not 
as precise at maintaining the idle speed as the idle motor set up.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> On occasion, I have heard reference made to an "auxiliary air 
valve".
> 
> As far apart as I have had my engine, I can't believe I haven't 
seen 
> this thing, nor can I find it in any parts lists.
> 
> I have finally seen one on Ebay for sale, (looks new too). This 
thing 
> doesn't look familiar to me. It looks like it has an electrical 
plug 
> on the end as well but I'm not sure.
> 
> I must be stupid or something. Can someone please tell me WHERE on 
> the engine this thing goes, what it does, what symptoms it causes 
if 
> it fails, where to get one, and a part number???
> 
> Humbly yours,
> 
> Rich
> #5335




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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Standard operating temprature and gauge reading

Hello all:

    Ive noticed lately that my D may be running a bit
cool (even in the summer) I say may because im not
sure of the exact running temperature that the car
should maintain.  If its running to cool and the
thermostat is opening to early this is not good for
the engine.

     Does anyone have an official delorean operating
temperature?

Has anyone ever put a thermometer in line to see if
the gauge is accurate?

    Then again It could be the gague.  which connects
to some potentiometer that changes resistance with
heat. 
     Does anyone know the resistance/temperature
values for this temp sending potentiometer.  F not C

Is this the one by the water pump on the left side.


    thanx

Jordan 11613

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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:08:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Climate control and auto shifter lights on all the time

Hello all:

   Ive got the little diagram that shows removing the
top third from the left relay and running a wire from
A to B.

Some say to use a 10ohm/10 watt resistor between the
two. 
Some say it doesnt matter.

what does anyone in the group think about this.


thanx

Jordan 11613

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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:07:50 -0000
From: "Jeff Phillips" <jeff.phillips_at_dml_scott.af.mil>
Subject: Heads are on..

Just a quick update about #10544.  The heads are back on and the 
vehicle actually started up and ran, despite removing the 
distributor without marking its position first. :)  I'm really 
impressed that the thing ran at all, all be it rough, the timing 
seemed to be nearly correct waivering around 10'.  I think that I 
have a spark problem as the timing light frequently missed when it 
was supposed to blink.  I'll be looking in to that shortly.  The 
worst that has happened is that I overtightened the alternator belt 
and siezed the bearings in that poor little fella.  Its a blessing 
in disguise as that alternator, I'm told, is off of a forklift and 
sadly underpowered anyways.  Unfortunately I have movers arriving on 
Monday andd Tuseday to pack up the house and ship it all to 
Mississippi (joys of the military), so I don't have time to order a 
new alt from a vendor before I go.  I'll be removing the alternator 
belt just to allow me to drive the car onto the trailer for the 
great journey south.  I really wish that I would have been able to 
get this thing running well before I arrived so that I could arrive 
in style.  

Jeff




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:38:46 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Out.

That's right. I'm "out".

Out of money, out of ideas and tricks, out of patience.

I have replaced the starter, and all of the fuel components. I have 
spark on all 6 plugs, air and fuel. Too much or too little I don't 
know because I have no idea where to set the CO screw and it was 
likely tampered with by the idiot of a mechanic I let work on it in 
December.

The wires are in the correct order. I have spark. I've used a timing 
light while cranking the engine and I'm at 13 degrees BTDC.

The engine is so tight the new starter can barely move it when all of 
the spark plugs are in. Obviously that's not right, but I followed 
the timing chain procedure in the manual and verified it with the 
people at DMCH. I hand cranked it BEFORE I started it. No 
interference. No bent valves.

It shrieks like a beaten wife when it cranks because the oil I put in 
the cylinders to lube it is washed away by gas.

As far as I can tell, when I pull all the plugs and start putting 
them in one by one, and cranking the engine with the addition of each 
plug, only 2 cylinders are making any kind of combustion. There are 
2 "thumps". As I add more plugs, there are no additional thumps, and 
the compression gets higher and higher as I add plugs and the engine 
slows down.

I do not, nor am I ever likely to have funds to ship this thing to 
Houston or Long Island, and pay for repairs. I can pay for labor or 
parts, not both.

Unless I have some kind of epiphany, 5335 will be another dead weight 
in another guy's driveway, falling apart as time eats away at it.






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