From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1603
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:41 AM

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There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Arrival of oil pressure gauge parts howto stuff
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

3. RE: Re: Replacement MSD Coil
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

4. Update on no ignition
From: "vin4258" <vin4258_at_dml_delorean.com>

5. Re: Replacement MSD Coil
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

6. Re: Re: Replacement MSD Coil
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

7. Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. New guy
From: Thomas Mc Auley <mcauleydmc_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

9. Re: New guy
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

10. Re: Just Joined - Thought I'd Say Hi
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. CONTACT! COUGH COUGH COUGH!!!!
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

13. Re: more issues with my ignition - update
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

14. Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

15. Re: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

16. Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

17. Is there a step-by-step on replacing clutch line with a new stainless one?
From: "steve" <steve_at_dml_redsquall.net>

18. Re: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "Eric Itzel" <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>

19. Dead DeLo
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

20. Re: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Arrival of oil pressure gauge parts howto stuff

Hello all:

     Happy to report that parts 102013 copper seal and
102821 sending unit adapter, have arrived so I can put
the new oil sending unit in.  I think i'll make a how
to change your oil sending unit howto and add it to
the rest, it seems to be an original part with a high
failure rate.

Also: 

The cap rotor plugs and wires job will be done
seperately from the fuel system related maintenance
things.  I just think its too much at once and will
make it a pain to troubleshoot. 

    Im looking at getting a volvo or bosch shop to
pressure test the old plugs so i can take some
pictures, may give some insight as to what your plugs
may look like.

 I will however be removing the metering unit for the
plugs rotor stuff, making the removal of that unit a
seperate hotwo that could branch off into other
things.  It will also make the pictures for the
ignution job easier to see.

thanx  

Jordan 11613



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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:27:23 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

Ok, so far I've done the following:

Cleaned and shined the braided ground from engine to frame, the
battery ground on the passenger side frame, the other end where it
hooks to the battery, cut off and reterminated the positive battery
cable at battery end (was corroded), and put a whole new terminal on
the end. No improvement. Engine still cranks very slowly.

Bought a remote starting trigger. Used the timing light to verify #1
was sparking at 12/13 degrees BTDC. No back fire, no cough, no nothing.

Pulled passenger side valve cover, verified the valve action vs.
timing mark and #1 at TDC. Timing chains installed correctly.

Called Houston, spoke with Bill at length. Checked dizzy, valves and
pistons again. 

So basically, the laws of physics don't apply at my house. Atomized
gasoline feels no need to combust under pressure when an electrical
spark is applied at the proper time.




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:26:53 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Replacement MSD Coil

Robert $50.00 for a resistor.Wow.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: therealdmcvegas [mailto:DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:18 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Replacement MSD Coil


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I've searched the archives.  I've found many posts that
mention that people have replaced the Bosch unit with an MSD unit,but
nobody ever mentioned a model or part number.  Rob Grady said that
the MSD 8202 should be a direct replacement for the Bosch Coil, but
I'd like to confirm the MSD part number before I go get one.
<SNIP>
> -Hank

MSD "Blaster 2" Coil is the one that you want. Ask for that, and
you'll be fine. The only variations of it are a plastic housing, or a
chromed one for appearance. It's a total 'drop-in' replacement, and
even comes with a brand new ballast resistor. And yes, you'll need to
install the resistor, but it's not that big of a chore. Cost me $50 _at_dml_
my local speed shop.
.....



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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:53:10 -0000
From: "vin4258" <vin4258_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Update on no ignition

Well to make a long story short, the power connector in the relay 
holder for the start inhibit relay was not fully inserted and didn't 
connect to the relay.  I had to take that row of relays and put it 
back in and now it works fine.  I wish I had checked this first 
instead of checking all of the wiring and circuits between the key 
switch and the starter.  I can't believe that normal driving would 
make the connector fall off of the relay, especially when the car has 
so few miles and I have never touched the relay before.  I don't see 
why any other owner would have either.  Must have been installed 
improperly at the factory.
On a related note, why is that relay there in the first place?  You 
could just put a jumper from the red/white wire from the ignition 
switch to the red/white wire that goes to the starter.  We did that 
when we were testing and the car started fine.  Could you leave a 
jumper in there like that or does the relay serve as a kind of fuse?





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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:29:02 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Replacement MSD Coil

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> Robert $50.00 for a resistor.Wow.
> John

My bad for poor editing of my post.

The cost is $50 for the coil, but that also INCLUDES the resistor as 
well. The package comes with everything you need included.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:59:38 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Replacement MSD Coil

I think he meant $50 for coil and resistor as package (still pricey
compared to mail order, but storefront retailer does have overhead).

NOTE: resistor is for ignition module's benefit, not coil. In fact
these high voltage coils are designed for max performance with 12v
ignitions (will work with OEM's at slightly lower output). Unless
you've upgraded factory ECU, make sure replacement resistor rated
comparably. Otherwise you'll cook ECU.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> Robert $50.00 for a resistor.Wow.
> John
>



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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:03:21 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

Just a thought on a lark:

How much exhaust pressure do your feel? Is it possible your catalytic
converter is stopped up? Mine did.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Ok, so far I've done the following:
> 
> Cleaned and shined the braided ground from engine to frame, the
> battery ground on the passenger side frame, the other end where it
> hooks to the battery, cut off and reterminated the positive battery
> cable at battery end (was corroded), and put a whole new terminal on
> the end. No improvement. Engine still cranks very slowly.
> 
> 



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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:56:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Thomas Mc Auley <mcauleydmc_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: New guy


Hello all,

I'm just new to this list and thought I'd say hi. I am Thomas Mc Auley and I live in Belfast. I am about 5 minutes away from the old factory. Anyway I am a HUGE De Lorean fan, and I expect to have my own car this time next year. It feels great to know that there is lots of people out there with years of experience and knowledge about these cars, who I could rely on for support and advice.

All the best,

Thomas


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:33:51 -0400
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: New guy

Always great to have new people join the list.

Regards,

Michael


Quoting Thomas Mc Auley <mcauleydmc_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>:

> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm just new to this list and thought I'd say hi. 



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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Just Joined - Thought I'd Say Hi

Welcome Ed,

Hope you enjoy the DML, it's the best place for
anything DeLorean related and any info pertaining to
the D. Pull up a seat and enjoy the ride, just watch
you dont bang your head on the gullwings ;)

~BONK~

OUCHIE!

Todd
Vin 5386


--- Ed <lrdeclpse_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well,
> 
> As the subject says, just found the group and
> thought I'd say "Hi
> everybody!" or maybe it should be "Everybody! 
> Everybody!" Anyway glad> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
For up to the minute details on the restoration of Vin5386 point your browser to, http://www.khpindustries.com/stainlessrestorations.html

__________________________________
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: CONTACT! COUGH COUGH COUGH!!!!

Okay I finally did it!!! after 12 years my PRV finally
saw the roar of life again. We were able to get this
beast running on the bench for several minutes!! Okay
so there were a few vacume leaks. None the less a 12
year old engine with umm... all kinds of "stuff"
inside the motor. Did turn over on my test bench roar
to life and run for several minutes. we also smoked up
the shop pretty good, lol. The PRV is in amazing shape
for 12 years of neglect. Once I tear the motor all the
way down and replace like everything lol. I'm not sure
what I'll do with it at that point. But now we know it
worth tearing down. 

Todd
Vin5386



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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:20:13 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

On the rare occaision that a cylinder fires, the exhaust seems to be
free flowing.

I have double-double checked. My engine has been assembled correctly.
The chains are right, the valves are right, the right piston is TDC at
on the right stroke, (When I pulled the dizzy, it was right the first
time, and I put it back 180 out) and I verified that the distributor
is on #1 on the right stroke. Adjusted so that timing light reads 13
BTDC. No guessing anymore, I'm positive.

After putting it all back together today, I gave it just a couple
cranks to see what it would do, plus I wanted to put the timing light
on it, and it fired 3 cylinders noticably.

The next thing I'm going to look at is the possibility of the spark
being too weak. What I view as strong enough, may very well not be.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Just a thought on a lark:
> 
> How much exhaust pressure do your feel? Is it possible your catalytic
> converter is stopped up? Mine did.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> > Ok, so far I've done the following:
> > 
> > Cleaned and shined the braided ground from engine to frame, the
> > battery ground on the passenger side frame, the other end where it
> > hooks to the battery, cut off and reterminated the positive battery
> > cable at battery end (was corroded), and put a whole new terminal on
> > the end. No improvement. Engine still cranks very slowly.
> > 
> >




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:19:54 -0400
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: more issues with my ignition - update


For those keeping track, here's the latest update.  The car finally did start today, but I'm still not sure exactly what the problem is - read on.

I've replaced the stock coil with the MSD 8202 unit ($40 from a local shop).   I got differing opinions on using the stock versus a replacement compensating resistor, so I just installed the new coil and used the stock resistor.  I now have a good blue spark off the coil.

I've replaced the 2.5 year old battery with a brand new one.  The car now cranks *really well*, but still no start.

I opened up the fuel pump area and I'm getting 12 volts to the pump during cranking, and the pump does energize when cranking or even manually closing the RPM relay.  Closed it all up.  Still no start.

The entire time this past week, the idle speed motor has been buzzing and humming a bit louder then I ever recall - but I'm told this is normal.  On a hunch, I just disconnected it - and voila - the car started right up.  It ran a little rough for a minute or so, and I re-connected the ISM and the car is running quite well now.   I know alot of people might think that's not possible, but after talking with Rob Grady about it, it is possible that it is stuck or sticky and causing a hard start situation.  He said it's rare to have a no start condition with a faulty ISM, but it is possible, as we've pretty much eliminated everything else.  

I'm going to remove the ISM and inspect it to see what's going on, and hopefully that was the problem, and it's not some other more obscure intermittent problem that's going to leave me stranded again.

-Hank




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:09:14 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> The next thing I'm going to look at is the possibility of the spark
> being too weak. What I view as strong enough, may very well not be.

A weak ignition coil will most definatly keep the motor from turning over. But 
there is another thing that will keep the motor from firing up: Lack of air.

Unlike a carbed motor, the idle is not controled by the fuel delivery system, but 
by another computer. If nothing else, try bypassing the Idle Speed Motor, and 
run a straight tube between the two connections. Don't worry, the motor won't 
got to WOT. But your idle will be around 2500 RPM though. And don't forget to 
hold the gas pedal down 1/4, to halfway while cranking as well. With a dead/
closed ISM, and closed throttle plates, the engine is choked, and with the K-
Jetronic fuel injection system, you wouldn't even have enough gas to "diesel" 
the motor to even a idle.

It's worth a shot.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:49:34 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

You can achieve the same thing by unscrewing the brass screws by approx 
2 turns each on the rear two and 4 on the front one. This allows air to 
bypass the throttles.

Martin

therealdmcvegas wrote:

>A weak ignition coil will most definatly keep the motor from turning over. But 
>there is another thing that will keep the motor from firing up: Lack of air.
>
>Unlike a carbed motor, the idle is not controled by the fuel delivery system, but 
>by another computer. If nothing else, try bypassing the Idle Speed Motor, and 
>run a straight tube between the two connections. 
>





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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:34:05 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

I appreciate the tip. 

Uh...my brass screws are all shut I believe. When I first got the car,
I read in the manual that they were supposed to be shut, so I checked
them. I had hardly put -any- force on them when I hit the stops and 2
of 3 just snapped right off. I was told not to worry about them since
they should be shut.

My idle speed regulator is brand-new. Like everything else....and it
is humming. I'm definitely keen on trying new things so I'll do it. By
the way, is there a specific direction it should be installed? I
wouldn't think so, because when it's open it's open and closed is
closed. Either way air is going to flow or not depending on the valve
position but you never know...

So if it's only supposed to be in there one way let me know.

After reading that last dude's article where his idle reg was stuck
shut, I'm all for trying it out. I have been holding down the gas
pedal 1/4 of the way.

I even tried yet another trick Bill at DMCH told me. I disabled the
ignition to see if the spark was so retarded (early) that it was
impeding the upward stroke of the pistons. Alas, it was not to be. It
had no effect.

Thanks guys, keep 'em coming. I'm not quitting yet.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> You can achieve the same thing by unscrewing the brass screws by approx 
> 2 turns each on the rear two and 4 on the front one. This allows air to 
> bypass the throttles.
> 
> Martin
> 
> therealdmcvegas wrote:
> 
> >A weak ignition coil will most definatly keep the motor from
turning over. But 
> >there is another thing that will keep the motor from firing up:
Lack of air.
> >
> >Unlike a carbed motor, the idle is not controled by the fuel
delivery system, but 
> >by another computer. If nothing else, try bypassing the Idle Speed
Motor, and 
> >run a straight tube between the two connections. 
> >




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:01:11 -0000
From: "steve" <steve_at_dml_redsquall.net>
Subject: Is there a step-by-step on replacing clutch line with a new stainless one?

Is there a step-by-step on replacing clutch line with a new stainless 
one?

thanks
steve




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:17:09 -0400
From: "Eric Itzel" <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

I've been reading of your trouble with your engine and I have one question
for you-

You keep mentioning a possible weak spark among your talk of engine timing.
Are you sure your ignition coil is in good running order?  Do you have the
ability to put it on another DeLorean to make sure that it's good? That
would at least help you get a starting point of "known good".

Good luck to you,

Eric Itzel
vin 4433

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:20 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle


> On the rare occaision that a cylinder fires, the exhaust seems to be
> free flowing.
>
> I have double-double checked. My engine has been assembled correctly.
> The chains are right, the valves are right, the right piston is TDC at
> on the right stroke, (When I pulled the dizzy, it was right the first
> time, and I put it back 180 out) and I verified that the distributor
> is on #1 on the right stroke. Adjusted so that timing light reads 13
> BTDC. No guessing anymore, I'm positive.
>
> After putting it all back together today, I gave it just a couple
> cranks to see what it would do, plus I wanted to put the timing light
> on it, and it fired 3 cylinders noticably.
>
> The next thing I'm going to look at is the possibility of the spark
> being too weak. What I view as strong enough, may very well not be.



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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:02:38 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Dead DeLo

Mmm, this crow tastes good...

People are having so much fun with dead DeLo's on the side of the road
I decided tonight to see what all the excitement was about (actually
#5939 decided for me).

Fortunately happened within a mile of so of house, where tools and
instruments were.

Quickly zeroed in on fuel pump. PO bypassed inertia switch in favor of
a permanent ground. Have no idea where he made connection, but
wherever it was, it isn't now.

Question then becomes: where to run a temporary ground on a plastic
car? Didn't want to lay around on wet pavement looking for a frame
bolt. Decided to run into passenger compartment seat belt bolt, where
I could at least keep an eye on it... 

Lessons learned:
1) Never trust a PO any further than he or she can be thrown
2) Add a spool of wire to the jumpers carried in glove compartment
3) When your car does put you walking, don't freak out -- every effect
has a cause
4) Always keep a spare Ford at the house

BTW: if anyone's keeping score, my angle drive repair is still working
57 miles later...

Bill Robertson
#5939




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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:39:21 -0400
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Living in the Bermuda Triangle

> And don't forget to  hold the gas pedal down 1/4, to halfway while cranking as well. 
> With a dead/> closed ISM, and closed throttle plates, the engine is choked

It's funny you say this now, as this apparently was my "ignition" problem the whole time.  Until today, nobody suggested holding the pedal down a tad while cranking and engine that won't otherwise start.  Most every time I tried to start the car, it was just reaching in and turning the key. 

-Hank





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