From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1615
Date: Saturday, August 09, 2003 8:04 AM

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There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Delorean parting out parts available - I'm discusted at this point
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Delorean parting out parts available
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: Delorean parting out parts available
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Re: Delorean parting out parts available
From: "Dan RC30" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Vacuum leaks and hi-temps
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

6. Re: My New DeLorean (VIN 1063) and Fuel Pump Pickup Repair
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Re: fuel tank access panel
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. Upper plastic glass screen P/N #105721 for sale
From: "argent486" <argentum_at_dml_hit.net>

9. Re: What are the Best Tires to Go with for a DeLorean?
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>

10. My car is still for sale
From: "Lazer" <floodle_at_dml_attbi.com>

11. The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

12. Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

13. Re: Vacuum leaks and hi-temps
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

15. Re: My New DeLorean (VIN 1063) and Fuel Pump Pickup Repair
From: "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. RE: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

17. Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

18. Re: Vacuum leaks and hi-temps
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

19. RE: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

20. Trapped in car
From: Phil Peters <PhilPeters_at_dml_postmaster.co.uk>

21. Re: Delorean parting out parts available - I'm discusted at this point
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

22. Re: Re: Delorean parting out parts available
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

23. Delorean parting out/another view point
From: "gullwingmagazine" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>

24. Re: Delorean parting out parts available - I'm discusted at this point
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean parting out parts available - I'm discusted at this point

Guess I opened my wide open yet again and stared
something again. I'd like to point out that Eric
Geerdink has parted out a few D's with massive frame
damage and what not. He actually is selling a pontoon
right now with front damage. I can understand doing
something like that. Eric has rebirthed alot of dead
D's. I respect people like that. If you take a D that
has been turned into a beer can then you can resolve
yourself that yes this it is just silly to invest in
it when the car is so damaged. But the whole theory of
buying a project D, then takeing it home, keeping it
for a while then just parting it out is oviously a
long term money investment to me. I wasn't born
yesterday and I've seen people do this sort of stuff.
See a car, garb it then just part it out for the sake
of makeing a fast buck. 

Just remember this, For every car you part out you
destroy it. You cannot replace that car once it is
gone. Every car you destroy you rob a dream from
someone not lucky enough to have tons of money laying
around. I didn't have alot of money to buy my D. I
bought a project D because I could invest the time,
love and long term investment and I didn't care if I
had to wait to enjoy the results. I'm just happy to
have my D. If someone had parted out 5386 before Rich
got a hold of it I wouldn't have my piece of the
dream. I had to work every weekend, do 20 or more
hours of overtime a week and sacrifice alot to buy my
D. So I know the value of every nut and bolt. No one
can tell me that a DeLorean is not worth restoreing.
If you didn't have one and that was the only one you
could get your theory would be completely different.
Every time you destroy a D you destroy someones dream
like I had. I was lucky, and in the process made alot
of great friends that helped me out like Rich, Fred,
Eric ect. If you don't want to restore a D and dont
want to invest the money and dedication, then don't
buy it. Let someone else have a chance at it. Theres
no excuse for it, Id like to see people who part out
Ds who are so "worried" that the parts will help
others start donating the parts then. Your not in it
for the money so Prove it! Take the D apart and give
all the parts away. Prove to me your not into it for
the money and maybe I'll give you a break.  Otherwise
your just a parts Pirate in my book. no better then a
legal chop shop and you can sit at another table
during a show or convention, because I won't associate
with people who destory the dream in search of the old
mighty buck.

Todd
Vin 5386

P.s. If your offened then you agree with the "chop it
for a fast buck" theory. 
--- kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/7/2003 6:53:11 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time, 
> stephen_at_dml_procomroofing.com writes:
> 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Vin 5386
> <delorean_stainless_at_dml_y...> 
> > wrote:
> > >Sort of sad actually. Always pains me to see
> another D
> > >go this route :(
> > Your looking at it all wrong.  Look at it as an
> organ donor.  Through 
> > the "transplanting" of these parts many cars can
> benefit! Painful 
> > would be a carcrusher and a useless block of metal
> at the end.
> > Keep looking for the positive,
> > Stephen
> > 
> I have been getting a lot of comments on this but
> for people that know me 
> they understand that this car is just too far gone
> to make it feasable to 
> refurbish.  . . . 



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:10:57 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Delorean parting out parts available

In a message dated 8/7/2003 3:14:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com writes:

> To Ken K: I'm not trying to attack you, but I do disagree with you on 
> both points: 1. The end value of the car can be much higher than what 
> you are anticipating.

I have had a number of cars and I own 6 at this point all with the intent of 
restoring.
This car will not nor never will be back to a high priced car without 
extensive renovotion beyond what is reasonable in return.

Yes any car can be rebuilt but to put 20K plus initial investment and labor 
into a car and have it worth $15 is not a good deal and those that have gone 
through the exercise know that.  I have a Jag I did that to and after $15K its 
still worth about $4K and its far from perfect.  


 NADA right now puts fully restored/original 
> 
> vehicles at a value of almost $28,000.

I have two that are in that condition I would be willing to sell you right 
now at that price.  Check Hemmings its listed in May and June for $29,500.

 Yes, it will require an > immense amount of work, but it can be done. 2. The 
> car is worth 
> saving. Even I realize that you can't just store a car until that 
> perfect owner comes along wanting to restore it. And classic cars 
> needing this much work won't always sell as quickly as road 
> operational ones, especially automatics. But this could easily have 
> been avoided simply by not purchasing the car.

This car has been looked at by others and all came to the same conclusion 
prior to purchasing.  They were not willing to pay the price and the parts on it 
were worth the price if parted out.

> Which is the absolute, 
> #1 cardinal rule when looking to buy a DeLorean. And if we learn 
> nothing else, always remember it: *ALWAYS* inspect a car that you 
> will potentially be buying IN PERSON FIRST BEFORE COMMITING TO 
> PURCHASE! 

You missed the point.  This car was purchased as a parts car with the hope of 
marrying it to another good one.  I had potential buyers for the parts before 
I even looked at it knowing it was trashed. Once I got it home I began to try 
to find a way to get it back on the road because the little DeLorean 
Leprechan inside was saying SAVE ME SAVE ME.  Even the folks from Europe wanted in on 
it but after discussions and such it was determined it is not in the cards.  I 
wanted a project car and was hopeful my initial evaluation was wrong.   It 
wasn't.  I have passed on many.

In another part of your comments you said you don't give up on a patients 

Ever hear of Hospice.


Words to live, and drive by.

By the way I appreciated you comments and as a DeLorean lover I too hate to 
see a car dismantled.
But one important point 
You haven't seen the car. 

Everyone would love to see all DeLoreans live.  But there is a certain amount 
of mouse damage, age, weathering, water damage, and neglect that makes it 
hard to just find a starting point.

I also have a 900 mile car that is in rough shape.  That car will live again 
as did the other three I restored. (2 to concours condition)

There is one thing to consider.

This car while mechanically trashed had a good set of body panels and many 
other parts that are useable.  The nickle and dime stuff were enormous as is the 
wiring and a whole lot more.  That made this car a higher priced car than the 
mechanical condition warrented.
It was a potential car for Rich and for a California project in addition to a 
doner to a car in an accident and a possible refurb in Europe and as a fire 
restoration on a car with a good frame and burned interior.  So it got a fair 
chance all passed.

If I got it for about half the price I know it would still have ended up a 
parts car. Given for free I probably would have mounted it on a platform and 
made a statue out of it (just kidding)

Sorry you are so upset about it but I think 4 out of 5 trashed DeLoreans back 
on the road for me is a pretty good record and the condition they came back 
in is a tribute to what can be done to a car that has some potential to start.

Sorry but 5609 didn't. 

  The second of my refurbished cars will be in the next Concours and one is 
featured in the Kruse auction this Labor day and I am hoping for $29K to $34K 
for it althought this auction doesn't tend to do as well as Barret Jackson.

Ken




> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean parting out parts available

Ken doesn't run a chop shop or meat market hospital with no morals. Ken's
intentions were restoration, but this donor was all ready dead and had the organ
donor sticker on the lower left front windshield ;-) I went to inspect this car
and was with Ken when he purchased it acting as his extra set of eyes.  At first
sight the car was emaculent (sp?), stainless was perfect. As we got closer we
could see the damage. 

Since Ken's description wasn't overly detailed let me add just a little more
detail from what I saw: The use to be grey interior looked like a beige grand
canyon, cracked dash etc. from years of sun. Ripped out leather, stuffing,
padding all over interior from the prior inhabitants. Almost couldn't find the
relay compartment because of it. Passenger window was cardboard & duct tape. The
car sat outside for years in mud up over the axles. Air intake & fuel distributor
were in the trunk. Layers of rodent fecal had to be scraped away to find the
throttle & intake, which was seized. Good thing I guess so the innards of the
engine should be salvageable. The front crumple tube & frame was infested with
rust, both surface and big holes eat'n thru.

Sure Ken could have let this car sit there and continue to rot. 
Sure someone with an insane amount of money and time could have purchased this
car and restored it. 
But think of the other positive side to this, think of all the cars this car can
restore by sharing the good parts it has, now, before they rot away like the rest
of the car. 

"I'm no longer a destroyer, I'm a means of resurrection, now we restore, we
revive . . ."     - Robert Duvall as Otto in 'Gone in 60 Seconds'

Shannon Y
16506 

----------------

From:     "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>
Date:  Thu Aug 7, 2003  10:41 am
Subject:  Re: [DML] Delorean parting out parts available

<snip>

Problem is, organ donation only happens after a donor is dead!
Doctors don't look at patients and say, "Well gee, it's going to take
much more work than I'm willing to put in to save your husband's life
Mrs. Jones. But don't feel bad, 'cause we're going to part out his
vital organs, so that other people may live. So don't feel so bad
about the loss." And that is exactly what was said here, looking at
this quote from the original post:

Quote directly from Ken K, owner of the doomed car: "Well Vin 5690
has been with me for about 3 weeks and I have gone through the
emotions of rebuilding, refurbishing, or parting it out. After
looking at the options this could be a $5000 car that cost $15K to
fix and result in a $14K car that still has a way to go. So it is
going the e-bay route."

>From what has been described, this isn't a car that's had any
devistating damage to it from a wreck, or a fire. It doesn't appear
to even have a wasted chassis from rust damage. It is simply a car
that needs an intense passion to fuel it's restoration. Someone who
is more concerned with owning/keeping a DeLorean on the road, rather
than what the monetary value of the car will be once a restoration is
complete, as quoted above.

To Ken K: I'm not trying to attack you, but I do disagree with you on
both points: 1. The end value of the car can be much higher than what
you are anticipating. NADA right now puts fully restored/original
vehicles at a value of almost $28,000. Yes, it will require an
immense amount of work, but it can be done. 2. The car is worth
saving. Even I realize that you can't just store a car until that
perfect owner comes along wanting to restore it. And classic cars
needing this much work won't always sell as quickly as road
operational ones, especially automatics. But this could easily have
been avoided simply by not purchasing the car. Which is the absolute,
#1 cardinal rule when looking to buy a DeLorean. And if we learn
nothing else, always remember it: *ALWAYS* inspect a car that you
will potentially be buying IN PERSON FIRST BEFORE COMMITING TO
PURCHASE! Words to live, and drive by.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:45:13 -0400
From: "Dan RC30" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Delorean parting out parts available

Robert said:
snip--->"Problem is, organ donation only happens after a donor is dead!
Doctors don't look at patients and say, "Well gee, it's going to take
much more work than I'm willing to put in to save your husband's life
Mrs. Jones. But don't feel bad, 'cause we're going to part out his
vital organs, so that other people may live. So don't feel so bad
about the loss." And that is exactly what was said here, looking at
this quote from the original post:"<---snip

This scares me. You're comparing a car to a person!

 Here's the definition of a car:
  1.. An automobile.
  2.. A vehicle, such as a streetcar, that runs on rails: a railroad car.
  3.. A boxlike enclosure for passengers and freight on a conveyance: an
elevator car.
  4.. The part of a balloon or airship that carries people and cargo.
  5.. Archaic. A chariot, carriage, or cart.

Definition of a person (human):
  1.. A  member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
  2.. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.
adj.
  1.. Of, relating to, or characteristic of humans: the course of human
events; the human race.
  2.. Having or showing those positive aspects of nature and character
regarded as distinguishing humans from other animals: an act of human
kindness.
  3.. Subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and
fragility associated with humans: a mistake that shows he's only human;
human frailty.
  4.. Having the form of a human.
  5.. Made up of humans: formed a human bridge across the ice.

Seems like a big difference to me Robert. I think we need to remember here
that although the DeLorean is a unique and wonderful automobile, it is at
the end of the day just that; and automobile.

---Dan



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:32:53 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Vacuum leaks and hi-temps

Whew...

I fixed the cam access plate on the head. That sealed the oil leak and
that one vacuum leak.

I then discovered the freq valve wasn't buzzing. That was simply a
contact in the RPM relay that was out of adjustment. A tweak with a
needlenose fixed it.

As soon as the valve had power, my idle shot sky high. Adjusting the
CO screw didn't really bring it down much. It either stalls or still
revs too high.

I took a quick second w/the carb spray and discovered that all six
injector seals leak. Could this be responsible for the crazy idle?

I now noticed the engine was pretty warm. The guage was approaching
220 so I bled the cooling system quick-like. I get periods of
fluid and periods of air. I'm not sure yet if I got all the air out.
I'm not blowing coolant anywhere. This is good.

Now I noticed the dang cooling fans didn't kick on. I have a new
otterstat but I tested the connection to make sure I had things wired
right so I think it may be bad. This is not good.

However, the temp gauge dropped way back down as soon as I bled the
cooling system. Now, I have a concern...after a while, the engine
seemed to get pretty warm again, but the guage never went anywhere
near that high again.

Can I trust this thing or not? I'm not keen about blowing the engine
up again after all I did to get it back together.

Opinions?

Rich
#5335




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:56:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: My New DeLorean (VIN 1063) and Fuel Pump Pickup Repair

The way you fixed the stud in the tank is EXACTLY the way to do it.
You have to make sure that when you install the fuel pump you don't
turn the pump and kink the hose. The spring is OK but not a
requirement. Just make sure you reassembled the fuel baffle and
pick-up corrrectly with the wires to hold it all down right. It isn't
easy to do with one hand but is important to get right. Be very
certain there are no fuel leaks anywhere. Wipe out any dirt in the
fuel tank. Next you should consider replacing the fuel filter, oil
filter, motor oil, air filter (if needed). Get a set of the Workshop
Manuals, Parts manuals. You should also flush and fill the brake
system, clutch, trans, and cooling systems with fresh, new fluids
unless you know for a fact that the previous owner did it. The brake
system for example is supposed to be flushed out EVERY 2 years!
David Teitelbaum 
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I just picked up my DeLorean. Vin 1063. Looking forward to talking 
> with other DeLorean owners. 
> 
> Last night I replaced the Fuel Pickup Tube and the Rubber seals 
> around the fuel pump. The little metal stud that is attached to the 
> bottom of the tank that holds down the Fuel Pump pickup assy. had 
> came unattached from the bottom of the tank. I thought about using 
> some sort of Glue to reattach it to the bottom of the tank but I was 
> worried about the glue breaking down once it was submerged in 
> gasoline. I ended up draining the tank completely then running a 
> purge of argon gas into the tank to eliminate the chance of a fire. 
> Then I heated up the little metal disk with the stud on it and 
> pressed it back into the plastic at the bottom of the tank. It formed 
> new plastic "rivets" like the originals and attached itself nicely. 
> At least I won't have to bother with any glue. Is there another way 
> people fix these also? I'll add pics of the process to my Pics. page 
> soon. 
> 



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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 01:55:11 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank access panel

You know where Houston is...

Part #105168 ($58).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "painintheass7565" <advantics_at_dml_a...>
wrote:
> My access panel under my "D" looks like a piece of swiss cheese. Does 
> anyone know if they are available new and how much would one cost?
> 
> John 5386 & 1383




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:40:38 -0000
From: "argent486" <argentum_at_dml_hit.net>
Subject: Upper plastic glass screen P/N #105721 for sale

To anyone in need of an upper plastic glass screen, DMC P/N #105721, 
I have one available for sale. I was going to replace mine but 
decided not to since mine was just slightly bent. This part is used 
but complete. It appears that the last inch of the right top edge 
needs to be slightly molded back straight with a heat gun. Please 
send offers to me by private email. I can email pictures if needed.

Thought I would post it here before I resort to eBay.

To anyone DeLorean owner/enthusiast in Kansas/Oklahoma give me a 
buzz. Looking for DeLoreans to attend our local car show the last 
weekend of September. Our 28th year and we usually attract 1000 
registered show cars. Thanks!

Matt Metzinger
Arkansas City, KS
VIN 961 - TIMELES
argentum_at_dml_hit.net




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 08:02:16 -0000
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: What are the Best Tires to Go with for a DeLorean?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hello.  I'm looking at new tires for the DeLorean and was wondering 
> what would be the best to go with.  I currently have Yokohama AV1 
> tires on it but I've been told they are no longer available in our 
> sizes.  Would the Michelin Pilot XGT H4 be a good tire to go with? 
> They are available in a matched set.  What are you running and how
do 
> you like them?  Thanks in Advance.  Tom C.

Hi Tom,

I've been using BF Goodrich T/A Radials on my pickup truck for years
and put a set on my Delorean last year as well.  They last a long time
and look good too.  Had the same set on my truck for 7 years+ and
there's still plenty of tread left on them. So far, I'm happy with
them on my Delorean. The DMC handles very well with these tires and
they are not all that expensive either.  

Richard Rowe
vin 5853




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 06:40:06 -0000
From: "Lazer" <floodle_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: My car is still for sale

Hello all,

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I thought I'd just let
everyone know that my car is still for sale.  I figured there might be
some new faces looking for a car.  Anyway, I'm selling vin#1217, a
1981 D with hood lines and gas flap located just north of Seattle, WA.
 It's an automatic with the black interior.  It has had too much work
on it to detail here, but I have a web page set up with all the
details at: http://www.floodle.org/car.html  If you know anyone who is
looking for a car, I'd appreciate it if you gave them that web address
or my email, floodle_at_dml_floodle.org.

Thanks!

Aaron King
Bothell, WA
vin#1217




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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:59:43 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"

That's right. Two of my piston liners moved.

Everyone is saying how awful and terrible it is and that my life will never
be the same, but for the life of me I can't figure out how so.

The Volvo manual states and I quote:

"Caution! Make sure the cylinder heads do not separate from the seals at the
lower seat. If this happens, coolant can flow into the crankcase
necessitating a complete engine tear-down and cleaning."

When you remove the head, under normal circumstances there would be coolant
in the block, which could run into the crank case if they moved. In my case,
the block is bone dry, so there was nothing to fall in. I suppose it's a
possibility that coolant could leak beneath it when the head is on, but it
seems very remote. The amount of pressure that will be placed on them from
the top that should be more than enough to seal them back.

And the seals are attached to the bottom of the liner and cannot move or
shift, so there's no off-kilter seals to worry about.

Let's say for arguments sake that I have to strip it down, take out the
pistons and check the liners. Well, you have the same problem as before. YOU
MOVED THE LINERS... and this time you took them all the way out. Who's to
say when you put them back you got them down correctly?

See my point, or am I blowing smoke?



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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:23:07 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"

Good question. A couple of big points - the gaskets at the bottom of 
the cylinders are not **just** gaskets. They are also precision 
spacers, and there are (or were) multiple sizes (thicknesses) of them 
available. The reason that they are not supposed to be separated and 
re-used is similar to the copper-washer one-use theory, but with some 
dimensional importance thrown in too. 

The engine-building instructions call for you to assemble the liners 
with new gaskets, measure the protrusion of the liners out of the 
block at the top with a dial indicator, and then replace the gaskets 
with ones of appropriate thickness such that all the cylinders 
protrude the same so that the sealing pressures are all the same. The 
gasket differences are specified in thousandths. I also understand 
that the gaskets are getting somewhat hard to come by, at least via 
the Chrysler/Volvo channels, but you probably should check with the 
DMC places. 

If you ignore all this and slap it back together anyway, you might 
get lucky and have it all work, or you might end up with a leak i.e. 
coolant in the oil at some future time. How lucky do you feel? 

Dave Swingle


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> That's right. Two of my piston liners moved.
> 
> Everyone is saying how awful and terrible it is and that my life 
will never
> be the same, but for the life of me I can't figure out how so.
> 
> The Volvo manual states and I quote:
> 
> "Caution! Make sure the cylinder heads do not separate from the 
seals at the
> lower seat. If this happens, coolant can flow into the crankcase
> necessitating a complete engine tear-down and cleaning."
> 
> When you remove the head, under normal circumstances there would be 
coolant
> in the block, which could run into the crank case if they moved. In 
my case,
> the block is bone dry, so there was nothing to fall in. I suppose 
it's a
> possibility that coolant could leak beneath it when the head is on, 
but it
> seems very remote. The amount of pressure that will be placed on 
them from
> the top that should be more than enough to seal them back.
> 
> And the seals are attached to the bottom of the liner and cannot 
move or
> shift, so there's no off-kilter seals to worry about.
> 
> Let's say for arguments sake that I have to strip it down, take out 
the
> pistons and check the liners. Well, you have the same problem as 
before. YOU
> MOVED THE LINERS... and this time you took them all the way out. 
Who's to
> say when you put them back you got them down correctly?
> 
> See my point, or am I blowing smoke?




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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:28:43 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum leaks and hi-temps

Replace the injector seals if they are hard and leak. Get a coolant
system pressure tester and pump the system up to 15 psi. Check for
leaks and bleed out the air by the bleeder screw on the water pump and
the little hose on the top right side of the radiator. Watch the
coolant level as you bleed and if it gets too low, stop and add more
coolant before bleeding further. Make sure at idle the throttle is
hitting the idle micro and turning on the idle motor. The mixture
screw won't change the idle speed much. Jumper the otterstadt switch
with a paper clip. If the fans won't run check the circuit breaker,
fan fail relay (or bypass or fanzilla or whatever is in there) and
finally the fan motors themselves. Since you did all this work because
the engine overheated go over the cooling system very carefully. If
you can't get the fans running don't let the motor overheat! Remember,
the engine gets to about 200 degrees, that is pretty hot, hotter than
you can hold your hand on. When driving it can get to over 230 degrees
with the A/C on, on a hot summer day. The thermostat tries to keep it
at least over 180 degrees. Get the cooling system running right before
doing more troubleshooting on the fuel system. After getting it to run
right you should change the engine oil and filter.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Whew...
> 
> I fixed the cam access plate on the head. That sealed the oil leak and
> that one vacuum leak.
> 





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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:39:26 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"

The problem is the seals on the liners get a "set" so once you disturb
the seals on an engine that has been run you will not get a good seal
again. Dirt can also get in there and you may not get the liner
rotated back to exactly the same position. Removing the liners and
REPLACING the seals gets you back to the begining again with new
seals. You would not want to do all this work and have the liners
leak. At this point I would just replace ALL the liner seals, you
might have moved others and not know it. You might just as well do a
complete engine service checking all the bearings and replacing all
the seals, you are not that far away and your labor is cheap and the
parts are not all that expensive. It isn't so much as spilling a
little anti-freeze as much as if the liner seals leak you will get a
continuous leaking of anti-freeze and anti-freeze destroys the oil's
ability to lubricate so you will loose all your bearings, camshafts,
and pistons quicky.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> That's right. Two of my piston liners moved.
> 
> Everyone is saying how awful and terrible it is and that my life
will never
> be the same, but for the life of me I can't figure out how so.
> 
> The Volvo manual states and I quote:
> 
> "Caution! Make sure the cylinder heads do not separate from the
seals at the
> lower seat. If this happens, coolant can flow into the crankcase
> necessitating a complete engine tear-down and cleaning."
> 
> When you remove the head, under normal circumstances there would be
coolant
> in the block, which could run into the crank case if they moved. In
my case,
> the block is bone dry, so there was nothing to fall in. I suppose it's a
> possibility that coolant could leak beneath it when the head is on,
but it





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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:46:30 -0000
From: "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: My New DeLorean (VIN 1063) and Fuel Pump Pickup Repair

Thanks David.  The car just had its 30K service from the Delorean 
Motor Center in CA.  I went ahead and changed the oil and filter when 
I got home just becouse I like knowing what is in the engine.  I 
bought the work shop manuals while I was in CA before the trip home.  
The speedo needle was jumping around a little and lubing the cable 
didn't seem to help so last night I installed a new Stainless braided 
teflon lined cable from Specialty Automotive in WA.  Now the speedo 
is smooth.  Next on the list is tires, I ordered a set of Pilots.  
There is a squeeling/squeeking noise that is coming from the front 
end of the car when you turn left.  I can't find anything rubbing 
yet, any ideas?  Also once in a while there is a poping sound comming 
from the rear of the car when I make a sharp turn, like part of the 
suspension is binding then poping loose?  Thanks in advance.  

Tom C. Vin 01063.  http://photos.yahoo.com/dawniellec



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> The way you fixed the stud in the tank is EXACTLY the way to do it.



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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:45:53 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"

I agree. It's a crap shoot either way. Whichever route I choose, the
negative result is an engine tear down. There's a chance that it will be
fine and it's equally possible that I will have coolant in the oil.

Since my engine only has 17K on it, my plan is to put it back together, and
change the oil frequently, watching for coolant and foam in the breather

> ----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Swingle [mailto:swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com]
> Subject: [DML] Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
> 
> Good question. A couple of big points - the gaskets at the bottom of
> the cylinders are not **just** gaskets. They are also precision
> spacers, and there are (or were) multiple sizes (thicknesses) of them
> available. The reason that they are not supposed to be separated and
> re-used is similar to the copper-washer one-use theory, but with some
> dimensional importance thrown in too.



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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:26:48 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"

You're absolutely right Dave.

Fortunately, I felt super-lucky. I put it back together. As soon as I
got the engine good and hot, I let it cool down and drained it
immediately.

Not a drop.

May Fortune favor the Foolish.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Good question. A couple of big points - the gaskets at the bottom of 
> the cylinders are not **just** gaskets. They are also precision 
> spacers, 



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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:34:26 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum leaks and hi-temps

Injector seals are on the top of my list.

Believe me, I was paranoid about heat. It was only there for a few
seconds. I was looking before it got there. I bled the system at the
radiator and the water pump today. Oddly enough, no air at the
radiator. I think I'll do it again tho.

I did jumper the otterstat. The fans came right on. What a bummer. The
dang thing's new. I'm going to warm up the engine again and put a
multimeter on it to see if it shorts when it trips just to make sure.

Idle micro switch is contacting. I had my idle motor in wrong. D'oh!
Appparently the "arrow" looking mark on the bottom isn't right. I
turned it around and the car is -much- better.

I checked the oil. No coolant. Amen.

The temp gauge stays well within the norms now, but to me, the engine
seems HOT. I've been told that's just the way they are but I'm so
paranoid that I just shut it off after a while anyway. I'm definitely
going to bleed at the radiator again.

Thanks,

Rich


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> Replace the injector seals if they are hard and leak.



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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:59:56 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"

You know, I'm dues for a bit of good luck. So far, my luck has been like so:

Car sounded like a VW bus -> Change the exhaust gaskets
Pierce water jacket extracting stud -> Remove head
Crack timing cover removing head -> Replace timing cover
Remove crank pulley nut -> Engine liners lift off

And it's true; the head can be easily repaired. Mine just came back from the
shop and it was $50 to weld the hole, retap, and pressure test.

If I truly am the unluckiest person in the world, then the rest of this
project will go like this:

Reassemble engine -> Foam in the breather
Remove engine -> Repair engine liners 
Engine on lift -> Falls on me and I am killed

But like Dave Stragand told me, if I truly am the unluckiest person in the
world then I would merely be maimed in the process. So I amend the last step
to read as follows:

Engine on lift -> Falls on my genitals.

Ahh. That's more like it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Swingle [mailto:swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com]
> Subject: [DML] Re: The third circle of hell, or should I say "liner"
> 
> Good question. A couple of big points - the gaskets at the bottom of
> the cylinders are not **just** gaskets. They are also precision
> spacers



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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 20:46:49 +0100
From: Phil Peters <PhilPeters_at_dml_postmaster.co.uk>
Subject: Trapped in car

Hi everyone,

I've got a problem with my driver's door at the moment. I will try to diagnose the problem as thoroughly as I can so you can get an idea of what's gone wrong…apologies in advance for the length of this e-mail!

It happened earlier this week when I dropped my brother off at a friend's house. Now, the house is a country manor house in the English countryside, so needless to say the roads were very small and quite bumpy. On the way home, I remember the door lock switch either locking OR unlocking (can't remember which as I was watching the road) when I drove over a bump. Still watching the road, I moved the lock back to its original position before I hit the bump, and then continued on home. 

When I got home I parked up and was about to get out of the car when I found that the door had stuck shut. After moving the lock back and forth a few times I put my hand out of the window and put the key in the outside door lock; then I tried opening the handle. The door still wouldn't open. In the end I had to climb out of the passenger door, which is no fun if you're as tall as me.

As always, my first port of call was the DML archives to see if the problem had already been discussed. I carefully followed all the advice about the door lock and latch rods and they all seem to be working fine. I also think the solenoids are fine (my car has all the original electrics and has been very reliable to date). So I doubt this is a "you should have lockzilla installed" situation. 

After searching the backissues archive again, the nearest description to my problem was listed back in 1998 by Jordan Gary: "The rear latch lets loose, but not the front"

He mentions that his car is a very early one and does not have door guides. Mine is VIN #4400 and DOES have door guides (the early stainless ones). However, it also has the EARLY style pull straps with the metal ring. It has been pointed out to me before that the early style pull strap design is inferior to the later style one (with the pull strap further back on the arm rest) in that the later style ensures that downward force is applied to the door structure in a more even manner. If you look at the position of the early pull straps, they are not level with the middle of the door where it meets the T-panel. By contrast, the later style pull strap system lines up perfectly with the centre of the door where it meets the T-panel. This means that the force you put on the door as you pull down is more evenly divided on the door structure. What I'm wondering is whether my door (with the early system) has closed slightly out of line. I generally tend to use the grab handle rather than the pull straps themselves to close the door so I am wondering if it has closed wrong. On June 21st 2001 Mike Substelny wrote:

"…I was trapped inside…and it had NOTHING to do with the lock mechanism…My doors often closed out of alignment, making them jammed. They appeared to be closed normally, but the latches were nowhere near the locking pins…When this happens it is very difficult to get out…The door handles and rockers have no effect. Only brute force (or possibly a fast drive on a bumpy road) will get the door open. This may take many strong men."

This would seem to fit with my problem seeing as the back latch appears to be operating fine but the front one appears to be stuck. Or maybe when I hit the bump in the road the door unlocked and the door started to open a bit but then I locked it back in place?

If this is the case and my door is out of alignment, then what should my next step be? 
Many thanks, 
-- 
Phil Peters
VIN #4400 LHJ 58W
DOC #84
Wolverhampton, UK


___________________________________________________ 
In computing, if a byte is 8 bits, how many bits is a nibble? 
Find out at postmaster.co.uk

http://www.postmaster.co.uk/cgi-bin/meme/quiz.pl?id=199



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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean parting out parts available - I'm discusted at this point

Todd, 

Too bad your talking about Ken Koncelic, the man that
RUNS the DeLorean conventions!

FWIW, Ken (IMHO) has done more for DeLoreans and
DeLorean owners than any other individual (not
associated with a vendor) than anyone else I know.. 
Not only does he run a non-profit DeLorean car show
every two years open to EVERYONE (dont have to join a
club, or deal with a specific vendor), but he is also
active in making available many previously hard to
find parts.

Frankly, I think when a trained eye like Ken's decides
that a car is too far gone to restore, he is doing us
all a favor by parting it out.  Not only is he making
parts available to keep other cars on the road, he is
taking a "basket case" off the road that would surely
end up in someones hands who would spend WAY too much
money on fixing it, then sell it for a loss and tell
everyone they know about what a piece of crap
DeLoreans are!  

If you (or anyone else) is so gung-ho on saving every
basket case DeLorean, then put your money where your
mouth is..  Make him a offer on the car, as is...  


--- Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Otherwise
> your just a parts Pirate in my book. no better then
> a
> legal chop shop and you can sit at another table
> during a show or convention, because I won't
> associate
> with people who destory the dream in search of the
> old
> mighty buck.
> 
> Todd
> Vin 5386
> 
> P.s. If your offened then you agree with the "chop
> it
> for a fast buck" theory. 
> --- kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/7/2003 6:53:11 AM Pacific
> > Daylight Time, 
<SNIP>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:11:51 EDT
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Delorean parting out parts available

Fellow DMCer's,
I have sat back and said nothing during the previous posting about this 
selling of Delorean parts. But the time has come to add my two cents worth. 
1. Having known Ken for many years, all I can say is he is one of the reasons 
I still have my Delorean. He has been of great help anytime I have asked him 
for anything! Many of us who have attended his shows will tell you Ken is a 
straight up guy. He is the kind of Delorean owner that all of us look to when we 
have a question. Many of the parts that have in the past been "out of 
supply", have been remanufactured by Ken at his own personal experience. He has put 
on the Delorean shows that we have enjoyed, Cleveland, Memphis, Cincinnati, 
etc... If Ken says this car is only worth parting out than you can be sure that 
he is correct.
2. If you are so upset at this Delorean being parted out than why no pony up 
the money and buy the entire parts car from him. I am sure if you do you will 
be upset at the amount of money that you have to put into it to even make it 
road worthy.
3. We all need to back up and look at this from his point of view, yes he is 
parting out a Delorean, but this allows some of us to buy the one part we may 
need to complete our Delorean.
4. Remember he did offer these parts to us here at the DML first, before 
looking to Ebay or some other venue of selling them.
Ken, you have TONS of supporters out here in cyberland. let the people who 
feel this is wrong (parting out) have their say, but to others you are doing us 
a service. I for one think you have done the right thing.
Thank you to the moderator for letting me have my say in this matter.
Bruce Battles
Vin# 06569
MTARNDO



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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 22:38:09 -0000
From: "gullwingmagazine" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Delorean parting out/another view point

Okay, I've put on my flame suit and here goes.  Another alternative 
for a car like Kens other than trying to refurbish it is to... 
customize it!  Now we can throw all the money rules out the window 
and do it just for the love of the car and building a personalized 
custom DeLorean.  

So what if the interior is trash... pull it out... salvage some of it 
and customize the rest.  So what if the engine is a boat anchor... 
pull it out... drop in a Chevy V-6, Northstar, Eagle Premier engine, 
or whatever makes you feel good.  Repair the frame, do some 
maintenance, put in a ton of elbow grease... its worth it.

This is how our Yellow D started out... trash.  I almost didnt buy it 
because it was so bad.  Many of you on this list saw this car at 
Kapac and couldnt believe it made it there(it was red back then).  
Well, it got even worse since then and by the time I bought it, it 
was a mess.  But it was perfect to customize!  Ive had numerous 
offers on Yellow since the Memphis show and some of them very nice, 
but... I dont want to sell, its not about the money, its a blast to 
drive and show and plan more custom things for down the road.

All I am suggesting is another way to look at this car.  In general, 
it takes more money to customize than restore, but, you still end up 
with a DeLorean, a custom DeLorean.  And for those who dont think it 
is a good idea to customize a car, well thats a whole different topic.

Before I take my flame suit off, just let me say it again... this was 
just another thought that might be useful in the future for these 
types of cars.

Ron
Gullwing Magazine

P.S. See you in Evansville and Gainsville.




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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:40:24 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean parting out parts available - I'm discusted at this point

I look at it this way...

Every Delorean out there just can not be saved unless somebody wants step up to the
plate and buy every project car out there and do a full restoration on it. If you can
not buy the car and restore it your self let the seller part it out to save other
Deloreans that can benefit from this car.

I am tired of people getting mad at sellers for parting out cars that just are not worth
fixing and if you wont buy the car and restore it your self you really have nothing to
say to the person parting it out.

I know Ken K. from get togethers and i am sure he did all of his homework on this car
and realized the dream is over for this car and he must part it out so he can get his
investment back out of the car.

My car has parts of other dead Deloreans on it so i guess i am to blame for helping
destroy project cars that are beyond repair too if you look at it that way!

My car is in not mint condition so it would look funny with a new interior door panel on
one door with all other sun faded interior parts so thats why i buy used parts so they
match my car.

Mark
6683

Vin 5386 wrote:

> Guess I opened my wide open yet again and stared
> something again........... But the whole theory of
> buying a project D, then takeing it home, keeping it
> for a while then just parting it out is oviously a
> long term money investment to me.
> Todd
> Vin 5386




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