From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1627
Date: Sunday, August 17, 2003 7:55 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Getting new tires--Special way to lift the DeLorean???
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

2. Preproduction Car On eBay
From: "p12c16" <p12c16_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Flat running
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

4. Re: DeLorean Wanted
From: Samuel <samuel_yahoo_at_dml_lightspeed.cx>

5. Anyone from the North East going to SEDOC?
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: R12 and R134 A/C Refrigerant Alternative
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

7. cold or hot starting?
From: Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com

8. Vacuum line question
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Delorean For Sale In Neosho, MO
From: "Jordan Hamilton" <DeLorean_at_dml_gbronline.com>

10. Re: Preproduction Car On eBay
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Re: Preproduction Car On eBay
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>

12. Re: Vacuum line question
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

13. Fuse Box Cleaning and Fuse replacement, CHECK YOURS!!
From: "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. Delorean For Sale
From: "phoenix1962002" <phoenix1962002_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:59:45 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Getting new tires--Special way to lift the DeLorean???

You are right to be worried about taking the D in for tires. There 
are plenty of stories to scare you to death.

Personally I prefer Tire Rack and using one of their Preferred 
Installers. In my experience I get a professional that is installing 
the tires.

Ok, that said, use the 4 lift points used for the jack. You can't 
miss them; they are the metal circle plates on each corner of the 
fiberglass pontoon. Most lifts these days are side arm lifts which 
work fine on a D. If in doubt though, or the lift plates are not 
flat so as not to damage the fiberglass, have them use a floor jack 
and do one wheel at a time. Don't lift the car higher than that 
required to take off the tire because they may crack the windshield 
from flex. If they are professionals they will spin balance the 
tires using clip weights on the inside and stick-on weights on the 
inside of the spokes rather than use clip weights on the outside of 
the wheel and damaging the finish. I have yet to find a wheel weight 
that has a good fit on the outside and will also go on without 
taking some finish off the wheel. You might pay a couple of dollars 
more for this procedure because it takes time but, it's worth it.

Most modern equipped shops have rubber padded grips to hold the 
wheel during tire removal and a tire break arm on the machine that 
never touches the wheel. A metal grip will leave marks on the inside 
of the wheel and is no big deal (I assume OEM since you mention 
NCT's) - no one is ever going to see them - but removing the tire 
has to be done with the correct machine or you will chip the finish 
off the face of the rim at the bead. There are so many "special" 
wheels out there today I would be surprised to find someone trying 
to use an old fashion machine, but be careful. If they don't have 
the right equipment, go to a place that does. For example, if they 
say they can change run flat tires or can do BMW sport wheels you 
have the right place. Everyone uses impact wrenches, but they should 
use a torque wrench for the final tighten - I use 75 ft lbs. (book 
says 70, service bulletin says 60) I also use a slight coat of anti-
seize compound on the studs too so, I may be going a bit too tight, 
but that's my preference.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "p12c16" <p12c16_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> When I go to get new tires on Tuesday I assume that they are going 
to 
> put the DeLorean on a lift to remove the old NCTs. Is there a 
special 
> way I am supposed to tell them to lift the car?  I would hate for 
> them to crack the fiberglass underbody or damage anything else.  
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> Patrick
> VIN 1880




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:08:02 -0000
From: "p12c16" <p12c16_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Preproduction Car On eBay

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=10368&item=2428257870

       Looks kind of fishy with no pictures, and seems too good to be 
true, but thought I would share it with you. Maybe we can get 
pictures by emailing the seller.

Patrick
VIN 1880




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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:09:16 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Flat running

First, I'd like to apologize to anyone in Maryland and the adjoining 
states for the downpour that happened today.

It must have been my fault as I had -just- finished washing and 
detailing both the PT Cruiser and the DeLorean.

Second, I took the D out for the first extended test run. (around the 
block instead of around the parking lot) I have installed the new 
injector seals.

The issue is, I have a pronounced lack of power. Flat acceleration. 
My WOT microswitch sticks so I disconnected it. I know that's part of 
it, but it lacks even more than that. I really don't think I have a 
vacuum leak or series of vacuum leaks that are causing this. It's 
idling much better now that the new seals are in.

My suspects are: timing advance failure, combined with the absence of 
the WOT microswitch, and/or maybe some smaller vac leaks. Any 
additional suspects are welcome.

Rich
#5335




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:20:36 -0400
From: Samuel <samuel_yahoo_at_dml_lightspeed.cx>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Wanted

The two places I check is dmcnews.com under the Sale area (right side of 
the site) and on EBay. I'm more likely to get one listed on dmcnews.com 
though. However, I recommend you dont just pick one and buy it, get a 
2nd person to check the car out (just post to the list if you dont know 
anyone in the area) for a 2nd opinion on anything wrong or possible 
issues. Not that people selling a car isnt trustworthy, just helps to 
have a 2nd pair of eyes check a car over.

Samuel

ross14703_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>Hey  I am 15 years old but I have been a DeLorean fan since I was 4 years old 
>(the first time I saw Back to the Future).  Well anyway, I am looking to buy 
>a DeLorean, any year, any type of hood, with NO wide side strip, light grey 
>interior, any tranny.  Must be within the price range of 5,000 to 15,000.  Minor 
>fixer-uppers are welcome.   I would appreciate any replies.
>
>~Thanks
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:22:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Anyone from the North East going to SEDOC?

Although people always try to persuade me not to put
mileage on the Legend turbo car, I'm considering
making the 900Mi trip to Atlanta for this event.. 
Anyone else from the north east planning to go?




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:22:51 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: R12 and R134 A/C Refrigerant Alternative

:)

Actually, when R-12, R-114 and R-134a are burned, they don't create 
mustard gas, they create phoszgine gas which is colorless, odorless 
but totally toxic.

On submarines, when we have a freon leak, we secure all heat 
producing equipment and smoking (talk about whining) because of this.
Not to mention that freon itself is dangerous to breathe and it's 
heavier than air so it displaces our atmosphere on the lower levels.

I spent 31 days in a freon-rich atmosphere because we were in a "bad 
place" surrounded by "bad people" and couldn't vent it. Talk about a 
headache. We had to eat cold cuts for a month because we couldn't 
cook.

The point of this history lesson though, is to point out that it's 
bad for us amatuer mechanics to heat freon of any flavor. Especially 
in a confined space such as your car-hole. So....be careful!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> 
wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > Check out www.duracool.com.  I was wondering if anyone has used 
this
> > in the Delorean or any other car for that matter, and if so, how 
well
> > does it work?  
> > 
> > Richard Rowe
> > vin 5853
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > Check out www.duracool.com.  I was wondering if anyone has used 
this
> > in the Delorean or any other car for that matter, and if so, how 
well
> > does it work?  
> > 
> > Richard Rowe
> > vin 5853
> 
> This is one of the biggest debates about MVAC systems, as I 
discovered
> (I'll be doing a total A/C rebuild on my car in the future, so I've
> been reading up on alternatives).
> 
> The first page says it all, "Hydrocarbon Refrigerant." In comparison
> to R-12, and R-134a, HC Refrigerants will cool just as efficiently,
> and are truly ozone friendly. Plus they're inexpensive, and are 
pretty
> much non-corrosive from what I understand. On the plus side, 
everyone
> whom I've ever heard from that has actually used an HC refrigerant 
in
> thier car/truck has had nothing but praise for them. I've never 
heard
> anything negative about them performance wise.
> 
> However, HydroCarbons are of course quite flammable. After all, HC
> chains are what make up methane, petrol/gasoline, motor oil, diesel
> fuel, etc... Hence why auto manufacturers are not allowed to use HC
> Refrigerants in car air conditioners.
> 
> 
> Now, on to the educational part of the post.
> 
> A study on the use of HC Refrigerants down in Austrailia, found that
> the only threat for flammability comes from improper handling of the
> gas when filling the MVAC system on a car. And that if a leak does
> occur, the gas disperses too quickly to ignite. This theory was 
tested
> both with cars that have been in real life collisions, to tests of
> holding heting elements next to leaks of HC refrigerants in 
controled
> experiments failed to ignite the gas. The test involved a number of
> cars that have racked up a combined total of over a million miles, 
and
> never encountered a problem (I'll have to find the link on that one,
> but it does exist).
> 
> But because the gas used is flamable, that's why automakers are
> prohibited from utilizing it in new cars. It is believed that there 
is
> a significant risk of fire. Which is interesting, because while I 
too
> have always heard of this risk, I've never actually seen a car 
ignite
> from using HC Refrigerants. And me personally, I'm more frightened
> about when Hydrogen cars hit the road (SUV's are bad enough, I don't
> need some "Soccer Mom" piloting the Hindenburg in the lane next to 
me).
> 
> Flamability has always been a concern with refrigeration systems. 
The
> earliest ones themselves utilizing flammable/dangerous chemicals 
such
> as ammonia to operate. Which is why R-12 was so well recieved, as it
> was harder to ignite, and more specificly, was no where near of a
> health hazzard if it leaked out (Note: "Freon" is NOT a specific 
type
> of refrigerant. It is simply a brand-name used by DuPont to
> trademark/single out their product. The same way we all refer to
> facial tissues as "Kleenex"). However, R-12 of course was deemed to 
be
> destructive to the Ozone layer, due to the use of 
> Chloro-Fluoral-Carbons. It rips apart Ozone molecules (O3) in a
> repetative cycle, untill it is destroyed by UV radiation. So since
> something needed to be done, and quick, R-134a became a replacement.
> 
> But, R-134a still isn't the solution. It was only inteded as a 
bandage
> to get the industry along until something better came along. It's a
> Hydro-Fluoro-Carbon (HFC), so no, it doesn't damage the ozone as 
bad.
> But, since it doesn't break apart as easy as CFC's molecules do, nor
> are it's elements as easily destroyed by UV light, it's a VERY nasty
> greenhouse gas! So don't think that just because R-134a is "safer"
> than R-12 that it's ok to vent it into the atmosphere.
> 
> From what I've read in an automotive trade paper, R-134a will 
probably
> be phazed out within 10 years or more. Allot of research is being 
put
> into utilizing Carbondioxide as a refrigerant to replace everything
> else in cars.
> 
> Oh, and one more thing. While HydroCarbon Refrigerants are 
flammable,
>  R-12. & R-134a are actually flammable as well. But when they burn,
> they produce Mustard gas! So while automanufactures, and DuPont have
> their beliefs, I guess you've just got to choose the lesser of two 
evils.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:12:37 EDT
From: Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: cold or hot starting?

I just got my DMC back from the shop had over 1,000 dollars done since its 
been running. Well, to make a short story very short, I live about 15min from my 
mechanic's shop. I picked up the car it runs on a really low idle needs a new 
computer, and the idle motor is sticking. It starts ok, and drives fine. I 
went to my friends house and parked the can the temp gage was around 220. The 
car sat for about 30-40mins. I then went to Red Lobster with my friends which is 
about a 20min drive, the car reached just under 220 since it was mainly 
highway. We went in to eat at 8:15, and came out at about 10:10, I went to start 
the car and nothing. it would just about start then kick out. After a half hour 
of trying to start the car it finally came back, and the rest of the night I 
had no problems. 
The car has a new Fuel pump, accumulator, thermostat, time switch, baffle, 
hoses, water pump, basically almost restored, plus more parts does anyone know 
what may have caused this?
I drove it to day to work and it ran fine, no problems.

Darryl
5898


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:29:52 -0000
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Vacuum line question

There's a lone vacuum line that comes into the engine from the side of
the engine compartment -- toward the back, on the left side.  It's
quite lonely back in that part of the engine compartment, so it's easy
to see which line I'm talking about.

If I have this line disconnected, everything still seems to work just
fine.  Idle is good, acceleration is good, and all climate controls
work just like they should.  My mechanic hooked it up to where he
thought it should be, and when he did that, lots of hissing noises
started coming from the A/C panel mode switch area.

So it comes down to this: when that line is hooked up, everything
works okay and the A/C mode switch hisses.  When that line isn't
hooked up, everything works okay and there is no hissing.

Any ideas on this one?

Aaron
#1506





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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:14:34 -0500
From: "Jordan Hamilton" <DeLorean_at_dml_gbronline.com>
Subject: Delorean For Sale In Neosho, MO

I was driving around the other day and out in the middle of a field was a delorean with its gull wing doors open with a for sale sign on it, from what I seen from the road the exterior looked great, the sign said it had 31 thousand miles on it.  It did not have a price on it though, just someones phone number.  If anyone on the list is interested in it you can e-mail me at delorean(at)gbronline.com and I can give you the telephone number or I can go take a closer look at it and see what kind of shape it is in.

Thanks
Jordan



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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:48:12 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Preproduction Car On eBay

The "Pre-Production" Delorean they are talking about is vin 00570.  
People here know the number...its Claudes.  Claude, you selling all 
your stuff?  Also, anything before 500 is pre-production.  

Erik



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "p12c16" <p12c16_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&category=10368&item=2428257870
> 
>        Looks kind of fishy with no pictures, and seems too good to 
be 
> true, but thought I would share it with you. Maybe we can get 
> pictures by emailing the seller.
> 
> Patrick
> VIN 1880




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:51:08 -0000
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Preproduction Car On eBay

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "p12c16" <p12c16_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&category=10368&item=2428257870
> 
>        Looks kind of fishy with no pictures, and seems too good to be 
> true, but thought I would share it with you. Maybe we can get 
> pictures by emailing the seller.
> 
> Patrick
> VIN 1880

I was thinking the same thing.  My bull**** detector went off when I
read the part about the seller throwing in a Bricklin AND a Camaro for
free if you used the buy-it-now feature.  Plus, he says that he will
NOT post any pictures.  Hmmm... I wonder why that would be?  I guess
you can't take pictures of cars that don't exist.

Richard Rowe
VIN 5853




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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 02:16:56 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum line question

Mechanic hooked up wrong. He's running vacuum backwards through mode
switch.

Line operates heater core shut off valve. Is only active in Max A/C
mode. Runs from passenger intake rail (one device of many on big 3/8"
line), through mode switch, under console in hard plastic line, out
driver's pontoon, to heater core shut off valve.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "aaron_t_graham"
<aaron_t_graham_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> There's a lone vacuum line that comes into the engine from the side of
> the engine compartment -- toward the back, on the left side.  It's
> quite lonely back in that part of the engine compartment, so it's easy
> to see which line I'm talking about.
> 
> If I have this line disconnected, everything still seems to work just
> fine.  Idle is good, acceleration is good, and all climate controls
> work just like they should.  My mechanic hooked it up to where he
> thought it should be, and when he did that, lots of hissing noises
> started coming from the A/C panel mode switch area.
> 
> So it comes down to this: when that line is hooked up, everything
> works okay and the A/C mode switch hisses.  When that line isn't
> hooked up, everything works okay and there is no hissing.
> 
> Any ideas on this one?
> 
> Aaron
> #1506




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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 02:27:48 -0000
From: "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fuse Box Cleaning and Fuse replacement, CHECK YOURS!!

I fellow DeLorean owner recomended that I check my fuses and fuse box 
since I just bought my car.  He said he had a fuse box melt down on 
him and that I should replace all the old fuses with new ones and 
clean all the terminals in the fuse box.  I took his advice and 
Yesterday I changed them out and its a good thing I did.  All the 
fuses had a light oxidation on them and the fuse for the AC curcuit 
had already started to melt down!  I was able to clean/salvage the 
terminals for the ac and clean up the rest of the terminals.  Most of 
the terminals looked pretty clean except a few which had some 
corossion on them.  Hopefully this will keep me from further problems 
in this area.  Just though I would pass this along, maybe it will 
prevent a few more fuse boxes from melting down.  

Tom C.
Vin# 01063




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 02:46:22 -0000
From: "phoenix1962002" <phoenix1962002_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Delorean For Sale

WE have a 1983 Delorean for sale. We originally put it up as an even 
trade as we have a manul trans and we would like a automatic. But we 
will sell it out right if we can too. Every is alright, it was in a 
collection and has 5000 original milage. We have pictures if anyone 
is interested.

AJ & Barbara 




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