From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1642
Date: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:43 PM

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There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Back Up Lights
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

2. Squirrly steering
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

3. Re: cat red hot
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

4. Acceleration "sweet spot"
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

5. Re: DELOREAN TRANSPORT TO PIGEON FORGE
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

6. Re: Idle speed/Circuit Tuning.
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

7. Re: DMC Lead
From: "graves_144" <graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. RE: Walkthrough for Replacing Slave Cylinder? Need one bad
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

9. Re: Squirrly steering
From: "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: Question everyone.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Re: Re: Valve cover vacuum leaks - they don't exist.
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

12. Re: Idle speed/Circuit Tuning.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:12:52 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Back Up Lights

Sure Steve,

It's on the driver's side of the transmission, mounted directly into the 
side.  Might need to use some careful force to break it free, if it's 
corroded/rusty like mine was.

Congratulations on the purchase, the bugs are normal age things, but the 
good news is they can all be fixed fairly easily.

Take care,
Josh
VIN 5102
VIN 15964
Ken's VIN 5609 (parts car)


steve trimble wrote:

>Can anyone enlighten me on were the switch is located
>that activates the back up lights? I just purchased
>this 81 Delorean and have all kinds of electrical
>problems, no fuel reading, door lights that work when
>they want to, parking lights don't work, passenger
>side toll window doesn't work. Is this normal stuff
>for a car this age?
>
>__________________________________
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>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
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>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>
>  
>





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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:59:24 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Squirrly steering

I guess it's time for me to stop driving again.

My steering is becoming erratic. The steering wheel is off-center, and
the car acts as if I'm riding on two points, and if you turn too far
left or right, you'll "fall off" and turn -way- more to the left or
right than you meant to.

I can't find any slop anywhere. The steering wheel has no real play
before the wheels start to turn so I don't think it's the steering
rack or firewall bushing. 

I experienced this once in my very first car. It turned out to be tie
rod ends.

That's no big deal, I have no fear of replacing them but I'd like
someone with some experience to confirm this.

As usual, Thanks guys.

Rich




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:02:04 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: cat red hot

I had this happen when I first bought my car and was just getting it
to run.

I'd also like to add that a siezed primary pressure regulator or
blocked fuel tank return line will cause this. If the extra fuel has
nowhere to else to go, it goes into the cylinders, the exhaust, the
oil pan....



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> To get the Catalytic Converter to glow red you have to overload it
> with unburned hydrocarbons. Some common causes are:
> missfiring cylinder due to broken ignition wire or knocked off
> broken or shorted spark plug
> mixture adjustment WAY off
> leaking fuel injector
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_y...>
> wrote:
> > Cat converter cherry hot,  ran O.K but took it in for a tune up
> after 25,000 mi. The delorean has just under 50k on the engine now
> runs smooth but hot cat. Suspect to much fuel.  How do I direct the
> mechanic  to fix a problem that he probably caused, becasuse it was
> fine before.  Don't know what parts he used but will find out
> tomorrow.  What specifically would cause this, any help.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:49:20 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: Acceleration "sweet spot"

I finally got out of the garage and onto the road. 

Acceleration is shaky. There seems to be a "sweet spot" in the pedal where
acceleration is best and anything beyond that is non-responsive. My first
thoughts are vacuum leaks or vacuum advance. Is there anything else I should
look for?



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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:46:06 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: DELOREAN TRANSPORT TO PIGEON FORGE

KEN AND I HAVE LOCATED A VENDOR WILLING TO TRANSPORT DELOREANS AT A 
REASONABLE FEE TO PIGEON FORGE AND BACK

FOR PEOPLE ON THE WEST COAST, THE ROUND TRIP COST WOULD BE LESS THAN $1000.

THE TRANSPORTER TRUCK HOLDS 6 CARS.   THE COMPANY WOULD LIKE ALL 6 CARS 
TO BE PICKED UP IN ONE LOCATION. AND RETURNED TO THE SAME LOCATION.

CARS WOULD ARRIVE IN PF ON THURSDAY AND WOULD LEAVE LATE SATURDAY NIGHT 
AFTER THE CAR SHOW.  (THIS SAVES ONE DAY OF TRUCK RENTAL COST.)  THE 
CARS WOULD ARRIVE TUESDAY BACK IN CALIFORNIA.

ARRANGEMENTS FOR OTHER CITIES SUCH AS CHICAGO,  HOUSTON,  ATLANTA, ETC. 
CAN ALSO BE MADE, AGAIN FOR 6 CARS.  THE COST WOULD BE MUCH LESS THAN 
$1000 BECAUSE OF THE SHORTER DISTANCE.

THIS IS QUITE A DEAL.  THIS IS 50% LESS THAN THE TYPICAL COST OF 
TRANSPORTATION AND EVEN BETTER, IT IS A SET PICK UP AND DROP OFF TIME.

REGISTRATION FOR PF IS DOING REALLY WELL.  MORE NEW PEOPLE ARE PLANNING 
ON COMING THAN EVER BEFORE.   THIS TRANSPORTATION DEAL WOULD MAKE IT THE 
LARGEST DELOREAN GATHERING EVER.

REMEMBER, CARS WILL BE INSIDE AT PF!!!!1

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED.  PLEASE E-MAIL ME DIRECTLY.

BOB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:50:02 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Idle speed/Circuit Tuning.

Alrighty then. let's go ahead and answer two seperate posts with one,
since both are so closely related in both content and demeanor.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "checksix3" <jetjock11_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> Thenn something is wrong with your car and you've compensated for it 
> by using the manual idle.

Wrong! My idle is perfectly fine, save for the stalling without the
Microswitch being properly tripped. A few months back, my car came out
of the shop with a set of fresh injectors, injector seals, and a CO
adjustment. I have NOT opened the idle screws at all. I cannot as ALL
3 HAVE SNAPPED OFF! Don't assume.


> The CIS has nothing to do with this.

Absolutely correct! Why? because we're discussing the Idle Speed
Circuit. Not the Continuous Injection System that controls fuel
delivery, and manages the air/fuel ratio. Save for the Control
Pressure Regulator opening when the ambient air temperature is cold to
simulate a choke condition by enrichening the air/fuel mixture, the
CIS system has absolutely NOTHING to do with Idle Speed Control! Yes,
idle can techicly be affected if the engine is not properly tuned, but
that shouldn't be an issue, as it is expected that proper mantainance
of the motor should always be the #1 priority.


> You clearly have something way out of whack and you're going about 
> fixing it the wrong way. Also, your statments imply you don't have a 
> full grasp of how the CIS system operates.

The only problem that I've had is what I've stated (and I will address
that below). But on the other hand. Duh, gee George. I guess I was a
smart enough ta figure out da difference between da K-Jetronic system,
and da Idle Speed Circuit. I wuz, I wuz! M-O-O-N, That spells CIS! :p

> The Lambda will cause a very 
> minor idle hunt of less than 50 rpms if everything is setup 
> correctly, or none at all if you chose to set it another way.
> All the symptoms you described indicate other problems, your car 
> should do *none* of those things.

Right. But when an engine is out of tune, or has a sudden, massive
power drain, the CIS doesn't always get to respond quickly enough.
Couple this with the extreme severity of how the Idle Speed ECU
correct the engine speed, and engine speed fluctuation becomes
amplified far worse than it would have been, had the motor just have
been using the manual setting as a primary controler of idle speed.


> >By setting the initial Engine Idle Speed manually with the 3 brass
> screws, we create a "pillow" of sorts for the engine speed. The idle
> should stay far more stable.<
> 
> Yes, thats true (see below) but you're not setting it up correctly if 
> you use the brass screw to do that. It will work however but you 
> shouldn't be using the balancing screws at all.

Once again, you're right. You shouldn't have to touch the screws at
all, assuming that the idle speed circuit is flawless. However, it
isn't. It may be closed loop, but it can recieving nonliner input that
will result in radical oscillations. Specificly the the WOT/Choke
condition that causes the severe fluctuation of engine idle speed. The
only positive side of this is you basicly get the physical equivalent
of a "Check Engine" light. Poor engine performance (acelleration/gas
milage), and the LAMBDA lamp are both physical indicators to notify
someone that something is wrong with the motor. In the mean time,
additional wear and tear on the alternator by the regulator forcing
full output at a low speed, and then having to work overtime by
replenishing the deminished charge the battery had to endure. This can
become even worse on cars such as mine where additional loads have
been placed on the electrical system. Increased consumption from
brighter headlights (65 watts each, and I use my high beams
frequently), larger, more power demanding sound system, 3rd brake lamp
that added 4 additional bulbs, various cigarette lighter accessories,
etc... With these acessories in place, the RPM dip becomes greater
when decellerating the motor.


> The CIS valve sets to it's basic position as soon as you turn the 
> ignition on, before you start the engine, as long as the idle switch 
> is made. It only beccomes closed loop after ignition/tach impulses 
> arrive.

And what then is that position? It seems on my car, that without the
Idle Speed Microswitch engaged, it is closed. Which of course would
explain why the DeLorean is the only fuel injected car I've ever come
across that requires you to hold down the acellerator when cranking.
Hmm...


> >>Now, if there is any downside to utilizing the Manual portion of the
> Idle Speed Circuit, then please, let me know. I myself really don't
> see any harm in using it. Only benefit.<<
> 
> No harm but as you say, you shouldn't need to do it. There is no 
> benefit to setting idle speed manually. It has no "improvement" over 
> a properly tuned CIS.

True. But as the old saying goes, "If a frog had wings, he wouldn't
bump his ass a-hoppin'." In other words, it's not nessisary, but it
would greatly help. The system does have a flaw potential. Perfect
example: Your own words.
<SNIP>
> But I'll 
> agree a higher idle is beneficial at times. My ECU has been modified 
> to increase idle rpm to 950 when the headlights, A/C or cooling fans 
> are on.
<SNIP>
If what you said before rings true, then we shouldn't even need to
tamper with the system at all. But since it is flawed by improper
tuning, and unexpected electrical consumption. All items that can
affect the both the idle speed, and with the example of electrical
consumtion, can in addition affect it's reaction time to correct the
issue.

You have just contradicted yourself on this statement.

And no, an improperly tuned motor is not acceptable, nor should it be
corrected in any other way than a full 30K service + repair of all
vacuum leaks. But the existing Idle Speed Circuit by itself
exaggerates the symptoms far too much, causing too much wear in the
mean time.


> I see I'm dealing with shadetree mechanics and not engineers.

OMG! You seriously didn't just say that, did you? When you joined the
DML, even the welcome page states that this is a communications
network for everyone reguardless of their background. The only
requirement is for a common interest in the car, the man, and/or the
company. And along the way, discussions like this do arise debating a
topic. And almost always, constructive critisisim occurs, and we all
exchange ideas. However, if you feel that we're "beneath" you somehow,
then why both responding to the conversation if you feel that it's not
going to be productive? This is a discussion board for everyone. It's
not some national car club designed to cater to elitists only.
Everyone here contributes equally into all discussions.


> point I'm making is to stop viewing this as a car part, the CIS is a 
> simple flow control loop.

No one is viewing this as an singular component. The Idle Speed Ciruit
is just that. It is a closed loop system that is comprised of
individual componets, and relies upon input from said components. But
at the same time, other parts can interfere with it.


> If you want a decent idle (assuming the 
> engine is in good health and your CO is set properly) you need to 
> prevent the CIS from controlling *all* the air that enters the 
> engine. CIS  conductance is not effected by CPR control pressure and 
> that makes a big difference in mixture management.

The CIS system itself does not manage airflow. It simply measures it
to control the air/fuel ratio, and acheives this task by controling
the amount of fuel that is delivered by the injectors, to match the
volume of air that it has detected entering into the intake manifold.
And yes, the Control Pressure Regulator most definatle affects this
air/fuel mixture. It's purpose is to open the diaphram to lower
pressure in the lower chambers, thus allowing more fuel to be
delivered to the injectors to enrich the air/fule mixture. This occurs
only two times: When the motor is cold, and the bimetal armature
inside bends, and pulls the diaphram open, and durring hard
acelleration, when engine vacuum pulls the same diaphram down. And
even then this enrichment is limited. A heater activates to quickly
warm the bimetal arm, and a Vacuum Delay Valve, which equalizes vacuum
pressure within the upper, and lower chambers surrounding said
diaphram. Both components are designed to close the diaphram as soon
as possible to avoid a prolonged, unessisary enrichment. So in
response to your earlier statement, yeah, I'd say that I have at least
a fair enough grasp of how the K-Jetronic CIS fuel management system
works to know what I'm talking about here.


> By allowing the CIS to control all the air entering after the 
> throttle body you increase it's response (it's proportinal band, for 
> those of you who understand control theory) and this canlead to 
> oscillation. By allowing it to control a window around metered air 
> you decrease it's response to overshoot.

EXACTLY RIGHT! THAT IS PRECISLEY WHAT WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO DO! We are
limiting the control that the Idle Speed Circuit has over idle speed
control! If the speed needs to increase, then the circuit has the full
ability to increase engine speed. HOWEVER. When outside circumstances
interfere with out control theory, we are limiting the negative impact
from the nonlinear feedback. In otherwords, if the Idle Speed Motor
goes WOT (Wide Open Throttle), the idle will be allowed to increase.
BUT, when it Chokes (totally closes off), the manualy set idle speed
will automaticly "catch" the slack, and prevent the motor from
stalling, and dipping into that low RPM range! Oscillation occurs from
data input, NOT from the type of limitation that we are placing on the
proportional band. We're simply setting the lowest RPM level staticly,
rather than giving the Idle Speed circuit full reign to automaticly
set said Idle Speed dynamicly. Since engine tuning plays a big part in
the equasion, along with electrical consumption, the system is not
truly "closed loop". The possibility of nonlinear input conflicting
with out objective Control Theory does indeed exist. Yes, you should
keep the engine tuned, yes, all components which comprise the system
should be in properly working order. I agree totally. But Murphy's Law
can still strike. And when it does, that's what throws the system off
balance. Not an inherent problem.


Why people disconnect 
> the system is beyond me, there are no benefits other than to hide the 
> root cause of problems.

We're not disabling any systems. We're simply adding a secondary one
into the equasion.

Which leads us to Part 2:


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> By allowing air to go through the "brass screws" or the manual idle
> circuit you are reducing the amount of control that the idle motor has
> over the idle speed. It cannot compensate (control) the idle as well.

Like I said before, the goal is indeed to limit the amount of control
that the Idle Speed Circuit has over the engine speed. It will be
allowed to advance the speed all it needs, but will not be allowed to
lower it beyond what we have manually entered in as the lowest speed
possible. It will still be able to control the idle just fine.


> In one sense it is like vacuum leaks.

It is NOT like a vacuum leak in the least bit! A vacuum leak occurs
when air is uncontrolably fed into the engine that occurs after air
metering, and therfore tampers with the air/fuel ratio. Setting the
idle manually uses air drawn from infront of the throttle plates, and
has already been measured by the air flap. It only bypasses the
throttle plates, and NOT the mixture unit. The air/fuel ratio is not
tampered with in the least bit.

> IMHO either stay with the idle
> motor circuit or leave it, I don't see how you can have both.

It's simple. All we're doing here is installing a redundant system to
control the idle speed. It's the exact same senario that we have with
the LAMBDA emissions control system. Just as the Control Pressure
regulator lowers pressure in the lower chambers of the fuel
distributor, so does the LAMBDA system. Except the LAMBDA lowers the
fuel pressure directly at the Primary Pressure Regulator. And instead
of gaining it's data from ambient air temperature, and engine vacuum,
it utilizes coolant temperature, and a physical microswitch mounted
directly on the throttle spool. Both systems attempt to achieve the
same exact goal for engine management. But both use totaly different
control theories and components to achieve said goals.

And that is what we're doing with setting the idle speed manualy. It
is a redundant system in function, *technicly*. And I say *technicly*
because not only will adjusting the idle screws achieve the same
purpose as the Idle Speed Circuit, but setting the default idle speed,
we have also set what the engine is now physicly limited to as the
LOWEST idle speed that it is allowed to achieve. So when the Idle
Speed Circuit malfunctions with an erratic idle due to interference
from non-circuit component input (improperly tuned engine, sudden
power drain, etc...), we can keep the engine from stalling out,
wearing too hard on the alternator. For some reason everytime this
thread has come up in the past, everyone seems to read it and think
that setting the idle manually entails the removal of the stock Idle
Speed Ciruit. No! That's not true. The goal is neither to remove, nor
modify it. We simply want to install a supplimental control system.
Er, rather utilize an existing one.


> The idle system CANNOT compensate for an out of
> tune engine or worn parts.

No, we're not trying to compensate for mistuned, or worn parts. Nor is
anyone blaming the Idle Speed Circuit for any worn/untuned parts that
may exist. We're just trying to alieviate the symptom of the motor
stalling out. Yes, this problem CAN be caused by worn parts/mistuned
engine, but it can also be commonly caused by an excessive power/load
drain. I wouldn't consider excessive power consumption from
aftermarket accessories a malfunction. And in this case, it's not
something that can be easily resolved. We're simply installing a
safety net here to keep the engine from stalling out. And in some
occasional cases that I've read here on the list, and experienced
myself, has been failure of the Idle Speed Circuit. Yes, it's a rare
problem that most DeLorean owners will most likely never experience.
But in my book, an ouce of prevention is worth a TON of cure.

Of course one idea that I've always toyed around with is splicing the
lead wire from the A/C compressor clutch over to the Idle Speed ECU to
trigger a cold engine condition to acellerate the idle speed. But, who
knows how that would turn out. But I too hate unessisary modifications
to stock systems. Hence the alternate of setting the idle to 950
RPMs. Not just for the increased voltage, but for the flow rate of
coolant, the motor cools allot quicker with the engine RPMs running a
bit faster. I doubt that the increased gas consumption would even be
all thact noticable.


> If you are having a lot of trouble getting the motor to idle down and
> you have to hit the pedal to do it one thing to check is the "quadrant
> link". It is the piece that connects the throttle spool to the
> throttle plates.

Been there, done that. No change. I also got a chance to see this
whole assembly up close and personal not just when troubleshooting my
idle, but when I had to fix my throttle spool. A little know problem
that the DeLorean can encounter, and I happened to on my car (the
bracket that holds the WOT microswitch came loose one one end, flipped
around, and locked my acellerator into place!) caused be to become
quite familiar with this area. The Quadrant Link can be adjusted yes,
but to do it, you MUST addjust both ends! If you rotate just one end,
you'll either lossen the linkage too much, or, you've end up
preloading the throttle plates. I've done it before with no sucess,
but I'll try it again. And yes, I did make sure that everything was
properly lubricated. I learned that lesson too the hard way when I
snapped my pivot bolt in traffic.

So in closing, I hope that this has explained things a bit better as
to what the purpose of setting the idle manually is. And in the
future, if I had only one request, please let it be that my posts are
thoroughly read. Not once did I ever mention disabling/removing the
Idle Speed Circuit, nor did I ever "condem" it for any other parts
failure. Does it cause the problem? No. Does it amplify it? Yes!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:56:29 -0000
From: "graves_144" <graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Lead

I heard that many DeLoreans were burried to avoid taxation. In some 
areas anything below ground level cannot be taxed. This probably is a 
real lead if that story holds true.




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:50:02 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Walkthrough for Replacing Slave Cylinder? Need one bad

I replaced the slave cylinder from under the car and it kicked my ass. The
clutch spring was tight and makes it very difficult to get the slave
cylinder in there, especially when you can't see it!

However, if you remove the intake manifold the slave cylinder is sitting
right there within arms reach. I know it's not a pretty prospect, but the
intake is easier to remove than you might think.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Paine [mailto:mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:43 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Walkthrough for Replacing Slave Cylinder? Need one bad
> 
> 
> I did it - I can tell you all about it if you want to hear. I can tell
> you about how I spent 4 hours hugging my transmission only to get
> nowhere and then the next day get the part out in under 20. I did the
> master, slave, and braided clutch line all in 1 shot. contact me off
> list for help. Maybe between the 2 of us we can make a howto
> 
> mpaine(at)tycomsystems.com
> 
> > is it easy? doesn't seem ilke i can even get to the thing.  anyone
> > done that before themselves?
> >
> > thanks
> > steve
> > redsquall.net
> >
> >
> >
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> >
> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> > www.dmcnews.com
> >
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at http://
> > groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
> > terms/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:58:18 -0000
From: "hodakaguy" <hodakaguy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Squirrly steering

This may or may not be related but my car had the same feel in the 
steering where it wanted to fall off to one side or the other.  I was 
also hearing a clunk sound from the right rear when turning once in a 
while.  When going down the highway you could wiggle the wheel back 
and forth and it felt like the rear of the car was swaying back and 
forth with the front.  I Re-Tourqed my trailing arm bolts and found 
the passenger side a little loose.  The difference in steering was 
amazing even though the bolt wasn't totally loose, now it tracks and 
steers much better.  While your there check the tourqe on all the 
suspension components, I had a couple other bolts on the right rear 
that wern't quite up to tourqe.  Hope this helps.  Tom Clouse

Vin# 01063

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I guess it's time for me to stop driving again.
> 
> My steering is becoming erratic. The steering wheel is off-center, 
and
> the car acts as if I'm riding on two points, and if you turn too far
> left or right, you'll "fall off" and turn -way- more to the left or
> right than you meant to.
> 
> I can't find any slop anywhere. The steering wheel has no real play
> before the wheels start to turn so I don't think it's the steering
> rack or firewall bushing. 
> 
> I experienced this once in my very first car. It turned out to be 
tie
> rod ends.
> 
> That's no big deal, I have no fear of replacing them but I'd like
> someone with some experience to confirm this.
> 
> As usual, Thanks guys.
> 
> Rich




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:02:52 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Question everyone.

I would start with the control pressure regulater. If that checks out
(you need a fuel pressure gauge setup to do it) then I would look at
the idle circuit and make sure the thermistor is kicking up the idle.
If that is OK then check the vacuum circuit to the vacuum advance on
the distributer and the advance unit itself. Vacuum leaks (which you
probably have) won't usually cause this but they will make it worse.
If it has been a long time since the car's last tune-up that would
probably help too. Make sure the frequency valve is buzzing when the
engine is running.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Enid <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Ok everyone new question,
>  
>   I spoke to the owner of the DeLorean that I have began making
downpayments to that I'm getting in November.  He told me there is one
problem with the car - not a fatal one - but one that I decided to
bring to everyone here for their suggestion as to what the problem may be.
>  
> Problem:
>  
> Start the car first time - runs for 40 seconds or so - then it dies.
>  
> Start the car a second time - runs for 1 minute or so - then it dies.
>  
> Start the car a third time - and it runs from there on.  No sudden
death.
>  
> Question:  What are the possible causes of this?  To me, it doesn't
sound too bad and it sounds like something that could be fixed without
too much of a hassle.  If anyone has any ideas, I more than welcome
any suggestions/responses/ideas.  Thanks everyone!
>  
>  
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:21:08 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Valve cover vacuum leaks - they don't exist.

I have been thinking about this and always thought that it didn't make 
sense. There shouldn't be any vacuum in the crank case. Period. The 
engine draws air over the oil breather to vent the fumes, but this is 
prior to any metering and so any "leak" will not affect running. I was 
never certain and never got around to asking Darren, however I just 
spoke to him and he said it's more likely that if you can affect running 
by spraying solvent onto your engine, you are in fact dealing with 
intake manifod leaks.

Rocker cover, timing cover leaks are not open to the metered air 
intake.... the only bits that are, are intake manifold, and the injector 
seals are another possible problem

Martin

content22207 wrote:

>Martin G/Darren B know engine pretty well (in variety of marques). If
>valve cover vacuum leaks were bogus surely they would have said
>something by now.
>
>Bill Robertson
>#5939
>  
>





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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:15:49 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Idle speed/Circuit Tuning.

Modifying your car from stock is fine, I just don't recomend it
ESPECIALLY IN THE FUEL SYSTEM. The stock system can be made to run
just fine. The real problem is once someone modifies the fuel system
then they are "on their own" in that since I don't know what is
modified and how it was done I (or anyone else) can't help them. As
the owner of YOUR car you can do anything you want to it, I just don't
think it is to anyone else's advantage to try to copy these
modifacations on their own car. In the local Delorean Midatlantic
group we had a member that didn't like fuel injection. He removed it
and put a carburater on his Delorean. He has since passed on but his
car still lives on with another owner. That owner is going to have a
lot of problems when he calls a Delorean vender and asks for a rebuild
kit for that carburater! I guess he knew what he was buying. I am not
questioning your competance, I just think you have to look ahead and
someday someone else is going to have your car and not know how to
keep it running. The fuel system doesn't need modifacations if it is
properly set up on a well maintained engine. A short answer to a long
post.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> Alrighty then. let's go ahead and answer two seperate posts with one,
> since both are so closely related in both content and demeanor.
> 





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