From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1669
Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:09 AM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Wiring harness
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Fuel Injector Cleaners
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>

3. RE: Hurricane protection
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>

4. 10115 wreck pics uploaded
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

5. front brake caliper/rotor from another car?
From: putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu

6. Re: Wiring harness
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

7. In need of driver's side torsion bar
From: kayoong_at_dml_aol.com

8. fuel injector cleaners...
From: "checksix3" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>

9. Re: Wiring harness
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

10. Re: Fuel Injector Cleaners
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

11. wiring harness...
From: "checksix3" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>

12. Re: Re: The Car that eats speedometers
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: RIP VIN 10115
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>

14. Re: The Car that eats speedometers
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

15. Re: Hurricane protection
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

16. Re: Wiring harness
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

17. Re: RIP VIN 10115
From: "Michael Paine" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

18. Re: Wiring harness
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. Re: Hurricane protection
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

20. Re: Hurricane protection
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

21. RE: Fuel Injector Cleaners
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

22. A DeLorean on Monster House
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>

23. Re: Hurricane protection
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

24. RE: Wiring harness
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

25. RE: Re: Warm engine sluggishness...
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:40:14 -0000
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring harness

> Finally any pictures of how to remove the instument panel/binnacle 
> would be very gratefully received.

There are some pictures under "LED Dash" in the photos section.  For 
me, it wasn't as easy as the photos made it look, but I was able to 
do it.

Aaron
#1506





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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:43:26 -0600
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>
Subject: Re: Fuel Injector Cleaners

I avoid most of the various additives on the market. Most quality gasolines
have additives that help keep injectors clean already.

The one exception to that is Chevron Techron. I ran into this stuff when I
was running a Ford Probe that had a Mazda V-6 engine that was prone to
combustion chamber deposits. Techron was the only additive that kept it
clean. At the time I lived in Illinois where Chevron gas isn't available,
so I bought the Techron Concentrate additive at AutoZone and put it in the
tank about every 5th fill or so. Never a problem after that.

Here in Utah I just run Chevron gas in the DeLorean. I have to figure that
there is something to Techron since the Big 3 automakers actually truck
Chevron gas from Kentucky to Detroit so that the can run it for EPA
testing. See the link below for that:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/techrongas/

Just my $.02.

Mark N
VIN 6820

At 07:34 PM 9/15/2003 -0000, you wrote:
>3M makes a fuel injector cleaner that is supposed work great.  Has 
>anyone on the DML run fuel system cleaners through their systems?  
>What were the results?




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:47:33 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: Hurricane protection

Kramer,

Leave the area.

Scott Mueller
002981
RNDOLA


-----Original Message-----
From: Kramer [mailto:jettaman95_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Subject: [DML] Hurricane protection


Dear List,
  As you all know by now that huricane Isabel is slowly coming up the 
coast and may hit the eastern seaboard.....  Any information would be appreciated and I really could go without my Delorean getting damaged or something else happening.



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:49:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: 10115 wreck pics uploaded

I have uploaded 7 pics of my wrecked #10115 to the photos section of the dmcnews site. They can be found here-

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/lst

I want to thank everyone for their condolances. I'm very sad to lose my car, but am very very impressed how the car took the impact. I was broadsided by an '81 Cadillac Fleetwood going 60 mph, and walked away from the wreck with minor cuts and bruises. I'm now contemplating buying a new DeLorean, and making it my only car. If this doesn't prove that DeLoreans are safe, I don't know what would.

Louie Golden
VIN 10115 (formerly)

_____________________________________________________________
Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>



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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:41:02 -0700
From: putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu
Subject: front brake caliper/rotor from another car?

Are there any more typical cars that use our same front calipers and or rotors? I know that master cylinder is the same as a Saab 900 but what of the calipers? I know that brake pads from a 78 toyota pickup work, does its calipers work too?

Sincerely Casey at putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu 

____________________________________________________________________
Check your SchoolEmail at http://www.CampusI.com
Find the LOWEST PRICES on books at http://www.campusi.com/BookFind !



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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:55:54 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Wiring harness

In a message dated 9/15/03 3:26:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
chapelhow_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:

> Finally any pictures of how to remove the instument panel/binnacle 
> would be very gratefully received.
> 
> I am not sure your problems are as bad as you make it out to be

To start with most of the connections in the front are inthe compartment with 
the windshield wsher bottle 
Mice get in there a lot and that may be your problem
Also water in compartment can cause the problem 

You can remove the bottle and check the connections and the front grill

The instrument panel to remove requires you to first remove the knee pads on 
the drivers side. Then remover the air duct betweent the door and the blower 
box
from there you rcan reach the four binacle screws and remove the binacle
Its not that bad about an hour the first time 

Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:29:50 EDT
From: kayoong_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: In need of driver's side torsion bar

Anyone on the list has a driver's side torsion bar for sale, use or new?

Please contact me of list at:  kayoong(AT)aol.com

Kayo Ong
#5508 with a broken wing
Lic 9D NY


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:32:10 -0000
From: "checksix3" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: fuel injector cleaners...


Not tried the 3M product but Berrymans or a straight shot of 
Chevron's Techroline (at most auto stores) works well. I'd burn 
Chevron after that as it has the stuff already in it.

An old aviation trick is to use Hoppes # 9 gun solvent, especially 
when heated and used ultrasonically. It cleans injectors better than 
than anything else I've used.

How do you know they're dirty? Have you checked the spray pattern?
It's fairly easy to build a home brew injector cleaner, powered by 
hand pump (ala Bosch's expensive unit) or compressed air if you have 
it available.






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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:45:55 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Wiring harness

It's not likely you need to replace the entire harness unless
a previous owner has done unspeakable things to your current
one.  Most likely you have a ground problem.  Clean all of the
grounds up first, then decide if you need to do anything more.

--
Mike

> All.
> 
> Many electrical problems are stopping me enjoying my car. The turn 
> indicators only work when they are the only electrical system in use, 
> LHS door lights only work with the key in ignition, gauges fluctuate 
> with power load (even before the car is started!).
> 



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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:48:28 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Injector Cleaners

In a message dated 9/15/03 5:29:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 
anaheim_21_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

> 3M makes a fuel injector cleaner that is supposed work great.  Has 
> anyone on the DML run fuel system cleaners through their systems?  
> What were the results?

My business used to be a dealer for these cleaners.  Was it the 3-part 
aerosol setup?  If so, i looked at it and pondered using it but i wasn't sure if i 
could get the applicator to work with the air box as it goes down into the air 
meter.  I never tried but let me tell you, probably half of the customers i 
sold it to came back not long after installation to personally tell me how much 
a difference it made on their gas milage and general engine feel.  supposedly 
it is the best stuff on the market and many dealerships use it as an "OEM 
Service".  i know of a couple in my area for sure.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:49:55 -0000
From: "checksix3" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: wiring harness...


Changing out the harness is kind of a drastic move. If I went to that 
bother I'd make a new one and not use an inferior NOS part. The 
electrcial system and wiring is this car's achilles heel.

Better is to simply repair one problem at a time. Most (but not all) 
circuit functions on the car are independent and respond well to 
repair. Focus on one issue at a time, it could even lead you to a 
common problem (as in grounding) that will clear up others as you go 
along.

My car was an electrical mess when I got it, now it's as reliable
as can be. Not to mention far safer. This involved treating one 
problem at a time as well as correcting the design deficencies of the 
factory. In it's stock form, (even when you get the wiring working 
correctly) it's still in many respects a giant toaster.

If you can't do this yourself I reccomend taking it to someone who is 
electrically savvy and have them use the best materials available. 
For me that was aerospace stuff: AMP PIDG terminals, gold Mate 'N Lok 
connectors, tefzel wiring, adding additional grounding and relays 
where needed, etc. Do it right and you'll never have another problem.
Just be sure to professionally document all the changes you make.




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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:24:24 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: The Car that eats speedometers

In a message dated 9/15/03 5:30:22 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net writes:

> Make sure the plastic drive disc is FIRMLY captured between the rim
> and the hub.


Also you may want to check if the Lambda counter gears are binding.  if they 
are working intermittently they could stop the cable with the wheel still 
turning and strip out your drive disc (which is what is supposed to happen rather 
than destroy the angle drive), or if you already reinforced the disc with glue 
or something it could wreck the angle drive.

I believe grady's drive (with synthetic molybdenum grease) does not need to 
be lubricated after installation ( well obviously after a few years maybe, but 
not like the older one with plastic gears).  

there is also a bracket grady sells that will hold your lower cable away from 
the wheel and brakes when turning.  might want to install that too.

Andy.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:35:37 +0100
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RIP VIN 10115

Sorry to hear that Louie,

Will your insurance recover the loss in $$$ so that you can try and find a
suitable replacement for 10115??

What will now become of 10115???

Chris Hawes
vin 5255

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Louie Golden" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: [DML] RIP VIN 10115


> Unfortunately I have to report the loss of another DeLorean tonight.



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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:11:50 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: The Car that eats speedometers

I'm not sure I completely understand the problem. The angle drive 
appears to still work? Have you checked to be sure the upper and 
lower cables are fully connected - at the speedo and lambda mileage 
counter? I have experienced your symptom when I didn't screw the 
upper cable connector on at the lambda mileage counter.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Scott Cagle" <dmc83n99_at_dml_c...> wrote:
>  
> Ok guys, I know all the speedo posts that have been done in the   
past, but this one is really starting to wear on me.  I recently put my 
fourth angle drive on this car, and that's including 2 of the Grady versions.



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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:34:13 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hurricane protection

Go to the California Car Cover Co. web page - www.calcarcover.com - 
The cover I got fit perfectly. They sell for all budgets and weather 
conditions. They can overnight - they had mine in stock. I have a 
Softweave cover and it is everything they claim it to be. I noticed 
they have a Stormweave that is for true outdoor protection. A little 
pricey (probably $250) but then so is all our insurance.

Harold McElraft - 3354





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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:05:14 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring harness

It sounds like a ground is lost, or nearly lost. There is a common 
gang connection for the grounds, under the dash by the steering 
column. There is a black cover on the connection. From that 
connection a ground wire goes to the common ground behind the back 
panel. Those common connectors, positive and ground, especially the 
ground, can become contaminated and even loose. Also, the ground for 
the door lights is apparently being obtained when you activate the 
buzzer circuit. If I remember correctly there is a single ground 
wire that is common to the whole mounted assembly of turn signal, 
wiper relay, and key buzzer that is actually made with a screw 
connection onto the metal plate where all that stuff is mounted. You 
may want to check that out.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "jchapelhow" <chapelhow_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> Many electrical problems are stopping me enjoying my car.



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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:38:53 EDT (-0400)
From: "Michael Paine" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: RIP VIN 10115

I'm sorry for you loss but glad you are OK



> Unfortunately I have to report the loss of another DeLorean tonight. 
> Louie Golden
> VIN 10115 (formerly)



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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:43:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring harness

There is generally no reason to replace the wiring harnesses. I can
only think of 2 reasons it could become necessary. If the harness
caught fire and was really melted (even then with enough labor it
could be fixed) or if the car was flooded in salt water and it
corroded everything. Usually the problem is the connectors at the
ends. They get burnt, bent, fall off, and corrode. This is fixable.
Since you seem to have a lot of electrical problems don't try to
troubleshoot them one at a time. Unplug each connection, clean the
connectors and use a little dielectric grease. You can also try a
product Eastwood sells that has copper in it to improve electrical
connections. Start with the "big" connections and just do every plug
and connector in the car. It could very well be the case that your car
was flooded at some point in it's history for you to have this many
problems. Bad ground connections can cause the wierdest problems
because of the feedback of the voltage into other circuits so make
sure they are all cleaned up too. Long periods of inactivity causes
some of these problems, most switches have a wiping motion in them so
as you use the switches they are "cleaned" of oxidation. Look for
evidence of the car having been flooded. You may find it if you remove
the carpets. If you suspect it was flooded change ALL of the fluids
and grease everything to try to remove any remaining water. The first
thing I would do is clean the ground connection inside of the front
left wheel on the frame, this could be the source of several of your
problems.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "jchapelhow" <chapelhow_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> Many electrical problems are stopping me enjoying my car.



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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:44:32 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Hurricane protection

Parking deck comes to mind...

Don't think rain on car is going to be your problem. Coastal surge and
low lying areas of course bad place to be. If it helps, flood from
Floyd abnormal. Seem to remember Agnes abnormal too. Rain will affect
all these trees weakened by last year's drought however. Simple
thunderstorms are bringing them down.

Watch out for wind driven debris. Might need more protection on sides
than top.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List,
>   As you all know by now that huricane Isabel is slowly coming up the 
> coast and may hit the eastern seaboard. Any information would be appreciated and I really could go without my Delorean getting damaged or something else happening.
>     Thanks,
>       ~Kramer
>       #10610




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:48:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Hurricane protection

If I was in your position I would first try renting a garage. If that
isn't possible then cover the car with a car cover. Now place
styrofoam insulation panels over and around the car. Now tightly cover
the panels and the car with a waterproof cover or tarp. This won't
help if there is flooding but it will keep the car dry and protect it
from flying debris. As further protection you could cover the foam
with pieces of plywood and then put the cover on.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List,
>   As you all know by now that huricane Isabel is slowly coming up the 
> coast and may hit the eastern seaboard. Any information would be appreciated and I really could go without my Delorean getting damaged or something else happening.
>     Thanks,
>       ~Kramer
>       #10610




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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:42:21 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel Injector Cleaners

Be carefull, Cleaners if not used correctly could damage O Rings in the fuel
distributor.That cost $425.00 to replace.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: anaheim_21 [mailto:anaheim_21_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Subject: [DML] Fuel Injector Cleaners


3M makes a fuel injector cleaner that is supposed work great.  Has
anyone on the DML run fuel system cleaners through their systems?
What were the results?



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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:13:01 -0700
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>
Subject: A DeLorean on Monster House

   Did anyone catch the previews for the Sept. 22 Monster House? In the
preview, Steve Watson, host of the show, arrives in a DeLorean to build
a retro-future house. It's a really short scene so we'll have to wait
until next week to see if there's more. 

Does anyone know who's car they used?

Ken

=======================================================
Ken Montgomery	Sacramento, CA  VIN #10911  'OUTTIME'
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/montkw/delorean/index.htm
mailto:kenm_at_dml_csus.edu
President, Northern California DeLorean Motor Club
http://www.ncdmc.org
Keeper of the International DeLorean Owners Directory
http://www.dmcnews.com  mailto:directory_at_dml_dmcnews.com
=======================================================
 




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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:00:49 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Hurricane protection

Many self-storage facilities allow the storage of automobiles.

I have a Sureguard up the road that would let me store my car. 
Perhaps you could check into that.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List,
>   As you all know by now that huricane Isabel is slowly coming up 
the coast and may hit the eastern seaboard. If anyone has anyway to protect a car in this event please post something.



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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:14:25 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Wiring harness

What's yours main voltage look like? What you're describing doesn't sound to
me like a wiring problem. Removing the wiring harness is a monumental task
and you should rule out everything else before you try that.

Check all of your grounds, fuses, fuse box, battery, alternator, etc. 

If you've already done all of this, then I will shut up now.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jchapelhow [mailto:chapelhow_at_dml_hotmail.com]
> Subject: [DML] Wiring harness

> Many electrical problems are stopping me enjoying my car. 



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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:22:09 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Warm engine sluggishness...

Yeah, I figured that about the lambda relay. I tuned her up last year (new
plugs, wires, rotor, etc). It's not the cat because it's... it's gone! :P

The mechanical and vacuum advance is working correctly. This brings me to
the possible root of the problem. I noticed that the idle is running about
1000-1200 RPM and my timing is showing about 14 deg BTDC. The faster idle
just appeared out of nowhere! 

Is the faster idle causing the timing to advance slightly or are the two
unrelated? I assume that adjusting the mixture screw will help to bring the
idle down. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Teitelbaum [mailto:jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:09 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Re: Warm engine sluggishness...
> 
> If the Lambda relay was bad the Lambda would not work at all. Poor
> acceleration when hot could be a lot of things. Start with a tune-up
> after making sure the brakes aren't dragging. You may have to have the
> mixture screw adjusted. Vacuum leaks can also cause this. So can a
> plugged up catalytic converter (which can happen from a bad O2
> sensor). I would check the mechanical and vacuum advance. Try a tank
> of Premium octane fuel.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 




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