From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1682
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2003 5:25 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see

To search the archives or view files, log in at

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: AW: delorean power steering??
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

2. Re: Digest Number 1680 - DOA
From: "Marvin" <>

From: John Podlewski <>

4. Re: Engine Swap-Out
From: Marc Levy <>

5. Re: Re: D. O.A. Election

6. Re: Regulators and lock selenoids
From: "supermattthehero" <>

7. Re: Starting and low idle
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

8. RE: Cross Threaded Spark Plugs
From: "John Hervey" <>

9. Re: Re: Bypass? No...I think my car need therapy!
From: "Ed Garbade" <>

10. Re: Starting and low idle
From: "Jake" <>

11. Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour Update!
From: "Kevin Abato" <>

12. Re: Engine Swap-Out
From: Louie Golden <>

13. RE: Bypass? No...I think my car need therapy!
From: "John Hervey" <>

14. RE: Starter issues
From: "John Hervey" <>

15. RE: keeping the dmc from overheating
From: "John Hervey" <>

16. Re: idea for the group
From: "Richard" <>

17. Power fluctuations, normal??
From: "Adam 16683" <>

18. Re: Tires
From: "Richard" <>

19. Re: Engine Swap-Out
From: "Richard" <>

20. Window Motor Regulators
From: "heningerandassoc" <>

21. VIN numbering on Deloreans
From: "birdwell77095" <>

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:50:58 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: AW: delorean power steering??

The BMW system is more than just power steering - it alters the force 
required to turn the wheel depending on speed and on recent high end 
models, even the ratio is dynamically altered. A quick search on Google 
reveals several manufacturers using such a system and even some offering 
retro-fit devices. But on a DeLorean? Apart from making parking easier, 
would it improve the car?


Elvis Nocita wrote:

>Hes Guys, maybe a little bit late for a response, but I couldn't resist
>as we produce the motors for the new BMW eletrical power steering system.
>As far as I know, there's way more than just plug in a motor and it will
>My colleague who developped the motor and brought it into series got grey
>hairs from it and he didn't even install it into a car himself !
>There's a lot of safety stuff to be aware of when messing with this kind of
>But if somebody is really interested in doing it, I may be able to help.


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:53:57 -0400
From: "Marvin" <>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1680 - DOA

Are you a member of DOA? If you don't like their voting methods or attitude,
then quit! Why get aggrevated? The small window decal is not worth the
trouble. This forum and the 1st class magazines being offered to us far
offset any value I can see for joining that outdated group. That association
served a purpose to keep owners informed, after the company folded. The
computer age has brought us together with this method of contact, and it
proves better than the DOA!

Let them continue to play with their elections and attitude among

# 17077


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Podlewski <>
Subject: BAD TUNE-UP

High idle(around 2000 RPM's)and  extremely rough running when gas is applied MY DELOREAN only goes at about 1 MPH yes 1 MPH and sometimes stalls!  It was given a tune-up by the mechanic, which I haven't paid for, at least YET.  What could be causing this, sounds horrible and drives even worse?

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap-Out

Lots of info in the back issues on this.. but here is
a list (from memory):

Rover (Buick) V8

Cadillac Northstar V8 (You can have it done to your
car for $20K)

Chevy V6 (one was even supercharged)

3 Rotor Mazda (From Japan)

Chevy V8 (this one was in Memphis)

Buick V6 (Grand National, Turbo)

Honda 4 banger (in the front, with a BIG engine in the

There may be some others.... And I have been working
on one for almost 2 years now, with hopes of having it
done by Pigeon Forge.  If your willing to wait, one of
the goals of my conversion was to make it reasonable
for anyone else to copy (After all, that is the
biggest form of flattering!)

You can do anything you want (As Rick has shown us
with his Twin Engine DMC).  It is all a matter of time
and money.  If you take the path that has already been
traveled, I think you will be looking at the Chevy V6
conversion.  It is probably the most common, and best
documented.  Don at DMC (Garden Grove, CA) may still
have some of the bell housings for the Chevy.  I
however opted to go a different route, for a number of

The biggest problem in the conversion is mating the
donor engine to the Renault gear box.  Some
conversions have opted to scrap the stock trans and
replace it with some flavor of Porsche.  While this
makes the job somewhat easier (to find adapter plates,
or bell housings), it does add quite a bit of cost to
the project.

The longer you wait, the more options you will have.. 
 There is always someone working on something new
somewhere!  :)

--- anaheim_21 <> wrote:
> Hello All:
> Has anyone on this list swapped out their original
> PRV engines with 
> one from a different manufacturer?  I saw the cars
> at the Memphis 
> show and was wondering what engines could fit and
> what people's 
> opinions are on this subject.
> I'm toying witht the idea of updating my engine.
> Greg
> 6598

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:16:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: D. O.A. Election

In a message dated 9/25/2003 8:35:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

> From the
> lack of public posts and the flood of private posts I can only assume
> that there are many who do not agree with the DOA but are not able to
> comment publicly on it.

Well there is always the DeLorean Car Show 
We have a magazine and no elections 
If you want to volunteer you are in.

We will include any group in the magazine since we are about the car and the 
people that own the car and of course the car shows that spotlight our cars.

The magazine has been moving along well and we have just chosen a cover for 
the third issue which will be out in later October. (We want to include the 
fall foliage tour)

see more on the magazine and Pigeon Forge (election free) at

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:18:05 -0000
From: "supermattthehero" <>
Subject: Re: Regulators and lock selenoids

Do we know if these have metal or plastic gears?

Matt #1604

--- In, "geek123y" <ken_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> Just wanted to let everyone know about a place I found that sells
> Delorean replacement regulator assemblies
> A Bargain at $299.95 per PAIR!
> Also they sell lock solenoids.
> A-1 Electric Online
> (888) 838-0506
> Ken #2700


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:29:03 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: Starting and low idle

I am not sure I understand the problem. If the starter is having a
hard time sometimes cranking the engine then you have to go over the
electrical system starting with the battery and check the cables,
starter, and solenoid. If it is cranking fast but not strating you
have to separate the problem from either fuel based or ignition based.
Quickest test is to see if you have spark. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, Swoyerzone_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Ok I just got my car back from the shop and had a new idle ECU put
in and 
> motor,
> before this I have had a new fuel pump, water pump, accumulator,
tune-up kit, 
> etc., done to the car,


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:36:27 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: Cross Threaded Spark Plugs

Napa has a nice tool for cross threaded plug holes.
John Hervey

-----Original Message-----
From: id []
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Cross Threaded Spark Plugs

> One of my plugs was cross-threaded in my cylinder head when i bought the
> car.
> What i did was carfully hold the spark plug the way it is supposed to screw
> in andscrewed it in slowly back to the original threads, i did this several
> times. after i was done i used a vacuum to clean any shavings out of the
> cylinder (it was easy since i had the complet intake assemby off for a 
> waterpump change) and then applied never seize to the park plug threads.
> Mark


Message: 9
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:07:09 -0400
From: "Ed Garbade" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Bypass? No...I think my car need therapy!

I had the same thing happen to a Dodge I use to own.  It would turn the
engine over fine and never even hinted the battery was weak.  Bought a new
battery and the car started right up.  As weird as it seemed the power out
was plenty to turn the engine over but apparently there wasn't enough left
to fire the plugs.

Have you tried a jump start?  That would at least eliminate the question of
a weak battery.


>From: "Kevin Abato"
> The car cranks no problem...just never catches.


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:31:27 -0500
From: "Jake" <>
Subject: Re: Starting and low idle


Based on your description, it appears that your starting sluggishness
appears only when the car is "cold".  This sounds to me like failure
symptoms of the Control Pressure Regulator (or Warm-Up Regulator as it is
sometimes called).  I suppose this symptom could also be a result of other
things like a malfunctioning Cold Start Valve, or a slight overly rich CO
adjustment --but I'd be willing to bet it's the CPR.

Fortunately it's easy to access on the left valve cover, up front.  Take a
look at a pic on Hank's site:

Let us know,
Jake Kamphoefner

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 10:57 AM
Subject: [DML] Starting and low idle

> Ok I just got my car back from the shop and had a new idle ECU put in and
> motor,
> before this I have had a new fuel pump, water pump, accumulator, tune-up
> etc., done to the car,
> I attend a college about 20 mins from my house, the drive is pretty
> little traffic jams. I parked the car (not the first time this has
> to my class which is about 1hr 30min long. I came back out turned the key
> the car struggled. it wouldn't turn, so I tried again, the same thing. I
> the gas peddle and the car slowly came to life, but its idle was around 10
> and didn't want to go higher until I hit the gas then everything was
normal. I
> stopped at a gas station shut the car off and I let it sit for about 5min
> back out and it was fine, it came right to life. The only thing I notice
> that usually (not all the time) the cooling fans are on as I shut the car
> when the starting things happends.
> Please help!!!
> Darryl
> 5898


Message: 11
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:24:23 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <>
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour Update!

Sorry it has been so long, but we are trying to finish Ironing out the
final details for the Mid-Atlantic Club Fall Tour.
Important things to know:
- We finally have a place for dinner picked out, and will need a head
count form all of those who wish to attend
- Hotel reservations should be booked ASAP!
- Tentative Itinerary has been posted
- much more (see link below)
The newest updates along with all the info you need to know can be found
This is always a fun event, and this year looks to carry the tradition
and be a great event!  Don't miss out!
Kevin Abato
Vin# 18860

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:35:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie Golden <>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap-Out

There have been all sorts of conversions... a Ford 302 V8, Chevy 350 V8, Chevy 4.3 V6's (some supercharged), a Mazda triple Rotor twin turbo Wankel, Land Rover V8, Cadillac Northstar V8's, a Grand National Turbo V6, Acura NSX V6, Eagle Premier V6's, and Bill Robertson's Renault V6. I think some of the folks in Europe are toying with more modern more powerful PRV-6's. Oh, and we can't forget Rick's twin engine DeLorean. I'm sure there's many more I'm forgetting. The Chevy 350 chews through input shafts, and the rotary and land rover conversions both use varying forms of porsche transaxles to get around this. The biggest obstacle with an engine swap is the stock DeLo tranny can't handle more than 250-300hp. People once thought that you couldn't cram any larger of an engine back there, but obviously the V8 conversions have proved them wrong. It seems all of the engine conversions are riddled with problems though. The only one I haven't heard any negative side effects from are the chevy 4.3 v6 conversions, and Bob Brandy's Land Rover conversion. I think it's because these people paid what they had to to do it right. 

So before you go ripping out your PRV, consider DMC-Houston's power mods. Their exhaust system alone gives about 20 hp, and their stage 3 enhancements give 70 hp. I don't think you could get 70 extra hp in a DeLo any cheaper than their $5k upgrade. Plus you're keeping your car pretty much original... and it wouldn't be hard to return it that way.

Louie Golden
VIN Coming Again Soon...

--- "anaheim_21" <> wrote:
Hello All:

Has anyone on this list swapped out their original PRV engines with 
one from a different manufacturer?  I saw the cars at the Memphis 
show and was wondering what engines could fit and what people's 
opinions are on this subject.

I'm toying witht the idea of updating my engine.


Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="" target="_blank">here!</a>


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:59:14 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: Bypass? No...I think my car need therapy!

Kevin, Typical loose connections at the inertia switch. If the plastic plug
on the bottom over heats the plastic connector part will swell and reform
it's self and the next time you plug it in you think it makes contact but it
won't. Clean the excess plastic off the connector that looks deformed if
any, make sure the metal contacts are tight, not just the plastic part, you
might have to pinch the metal connector a bit and try it again. If the pump
is drawing to much current, the connector will over heat again a possible
loose connection again. If it keeps happening, remove the plastic cover from
around the female pins and plug it in that way. Pump may have to be
John Hervey

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Abato []
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: [DML] Bypass? No...I think my car need therapy!

> This is REALLY strange!  3 times in the past few months, my car has
> refused to start.  See what you think...

[quote trimmed by moderator]


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:04:37 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: Starter issues

Mark, Your correct in the diagnostic you have done. 10 volts on a good
battery if ok for the starter to drop down to when trying to crank.If you
get the clicks and no start and sometimes it starts fine, If you could look
inside the starter you would know why it's not starting all the time. The
solenoid is wore out with burned contacts and the starter is dragging.
Replace it and all will be fine.
John Hervey

-----Original Message-----
From: id []
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: [DML] Starter issues

> I just started to have this problem today and i think i know what the
> problem is but i would like a second opinion.
> When i try to start my car sometimes i just get a click from the starter
> or the car justsimply starts. When it clicks i can keep turning the key
> and the starter will sometimes start the car after several clicks.
> Sometimes i hop in and turn the key and it starts.
> When i check my battery it is at 12 volts, when the car starts it drops
> down to 10 volts when the car is cranking, when i just get the clicking
> it only drops down to 11 volts.
> I believe it is a bad starter solenoid, could i be wrong?
> My vin is 6683 if this helps.
> Mark
> 6683


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:25:06 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: keeping the dmc from overheating

Dan, I have noticed you have got some information that's not totally
correct. First I would restore the wiring back to the original condition. If
you need help you can call. The otterstat and AC control mode switch turns
the fans on and off. The fans are turned on by temperature of the
otterstat.92,97,98 Degree C.( I have 3 temps on the web site. ) The
otterstat works simultaneous with the AC compressor clutch turning on and
off if needed. ( Meaning they can both be turned on at the same time.) The
protection of the circuit working correctly is as good as it's weakest link
and The Fan Fix Dual 2x2 can fix it safely with less strain on the wiring
harness of the car for other components. The Air Bleeder can continuous
bleed off any air that gets into the system that would hinder the otterstat
from doing it's job correctly. Your thermostat above the water pump needs to
working correctly and the radiator should not be clogged up.
With normal maintance the system should work fine in any weather.
John Hervey

-----Original Message-----
From: dsstriker []
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:07 AM
Subject: [DML] keeping the dmc from overheating

> the previous owner of my dmc hooked up a toggle switch to keep the
> fans running to prevent an overheat. I am not crazy about this type
> of engineering as i would like to fix the problem. I know that other
> owners have wired similar switches to prevent overheats as well but,
> as i am new to deloreans, what should i look for in terms of running
> this toggle switch correctly? quick example, I had the switch on, and
> the car started overheating about 10 minutes later. Any advice? Does
> running the AC potenially cut the fan power? The previous owner sid
> that it was a direct hook up to the battery. Let me know what you
> think, Dan


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:31:57 -0000
From: "Richard" <>
Subject: Re: idea for the group

--- In, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> List,
> I was thinking today about all the people who have problems getting
their car 
> to idle correctly, running rich, running lean, even getting it to
> wouldn't it be cool if the if the more knowledgable members of the
DML could kind 
> of form a roundtable and come up with an addition to
which would 
> be kind of a tutorial on how to properly set up your car?

Hi Andy

That's a good idea.  The "more knowledgeable members of the DML" could
all send their tutorials to a centralized site, such as Jordan Rubin's
"How-To" site. (But only with his permission, of course.)  I thought
of him because he already has a well organized and informative web
page complete with photos.  If he approves of the tutorial that
someone sends, then it could be added to the existing ones.

On the DML page there could be a link called "Delorean How-To's" or
something like that on the left side of the screen where it says
"Home, Messages,Files, Photos" etc.  Clicking on it would send you to
Jordan's site.
Now, please know that I'm just using his site as an example. The
important thing is that all the how-to's and tutorials are sent to one
centralized location, easily accessable to all DML members. Just
thought I'd add to your idea.

Richard Rowe
Vin 5853 


Message: 17
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:46:42 -0000
From: "Adam 16683" <>
Subject: Power fluctuations, normal??

My car has had minor power fluctuations ever since I got it. For 
example, the dash lights dim when the turn signal light is on. 
Is this an old problem due to the stock alternators/voltage 

thanks, adam 


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:23:04 -0000
From: "Richard" <>
Subject: Re: Tires

--- In, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...>
> The other night there was a piece on ABC World News Tonight about
> tires and age. It seems that even a tire 10 years old could be
> considered unsafe. For more go to
> I guess I am glad now I finally got my NCT's off!
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757

I believe that.  I've seen old tires with lots of tread left, but
thought nothing of it. I should have known better. A blowout waiting
to happen.  It happened to me when I was driving my Camaro back in
1989 at about 170 kilometers per hour. It caused the whole wheel to
break off the axle on the front right side of the car. Amazingly,
the car didn't flip and I managed to get to get it off the road and
onto the shoulder, but I don't know how. It all happed so fast.  God
was looking out for me that day!

The moral of this post?  If you bought a Delorean that still has the
original tires on it, REPLACE THEM!  Your life may depend on it!

P.S.  Great post David!

Richard Rowe
Vin 5853


Message: 19
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:35:43 -0000
From: "Richard" <>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap-Out

--- In, "anaheim_21" <anaheim_21_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hello All:
> Has anyone on this list swapped out their original PRV engines with 
> one from a different manufacturer?  I saw the cars at the Memphis 
> show and was wondering what engines could fit and what people's 
> opinions are on this subject.
> I'm toying witht the idea of updating my engine.
> Greg
> 6598

Hi Greg,

This subject has come up a lot. We all know how you feel. The most
awesome looking car ever made has an engine that produces only 130hp.
 Actually, Deloreans perform very well despite the fact that they're
underpowered, at least mine does anyway.  

However, when you pull up to one of those annoying "rice-rockets" with
the shopping cart wings, the fart-can exhaust pipes and the obsencely
loud stereos at a red light, you know darn well that despite how
ridiculous they are, that Honda or Toyota probably has more horsepower
than your DMC.  Sad but true. 

If you want tire-smoking power in a delorean, consider buying  the
"original Delorean", the Pontiac GTO.  Otherwise, if you really want
more out of your gull-wing DMC, then check out the stage 1 engine at It's still the PRV, but with mods done to it to
produce close to 200hp. If that's not enough then look into a 
Northstar V-8 conversion by American Custom Engines.  That will take
you to 300hp.  You might want to stick with the PRV though, since it
is a scaled down version of what was used in the Renault Alpine which
apparently put out in excess of 400hp! A while back there was a
Delorean on Ebay that had a Wankel-Rotary engine from a Mazda RX7
coupled to a Porsche 6 speed transmission that produced 300hp. 
There's also been Chevy 3.8 turbo conversions and yes, a good ole'
Chevy 350 has been shoe-horned into a Delorean as well.

Anything is possible.  It all depends on what you want and how much
you're willing to spend to get it.  What's my opinion? I'm staying
with my original PRV engine for now, and maybe get the mods from DMCH
a year or two down the road.  I love driving my Delorean just the way
it is, but that's just my opinion.

Richard Rowe
Vin 5853



Message: 20
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:29:05 -0000
From: "heningerandassoc" <>
Subject: Window Motor Regulators

Driver side and passenger side window motor regulators are stocked by  The separate units are available with 
detailed installation instructions and pictures for $199.00 each.


Message: 21
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:25:55 -0000
From: "birdwell77095" <>
Subject: VIN numbering on Deloreans

Looking at Knut's list of VINs, there are only two VINS between 17707 
and 20002. Doeas anyon have VINs in that range? Also, was VIN 7199 
the last '81 made? The '82 series start with VIN 10000. Lastly, I 
notice that the build date varies and jumps around at the end of 
production. Why is that?



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to