From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1684
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:12 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Starting and low idle
From: Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com

2. RE: Re: idea for the group
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

3. RE: BAD TUNE-UP
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

4. RE: HIGH IDLE
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

5. lights and such
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: A BTTF Halloween
From: john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. ODD vs EVEN Fire
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

8. RE: Starting and low idle
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

9. Re: running light failure
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

10. Re: delorean air conditioning question
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

11. ac question
From: john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. Re: vacuum problem analysis please!
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

13. RE: vacuum problem analysis please!
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

14. Re: Re: Tires
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

15. Re: delorean air conditioning question
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. RE: Re: Starting and low idle
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

17. Re: running light failure
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

18. Re: delorean air conditioning question
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

19. Re: running light failure
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

20. Re: vacuum problem analysis please!
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

21. Re: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

22. Re: Engine Swap-Out
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

23. Re: ODD vs EVEN Fire
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

24. Re: ODD vs EVEN Fire
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

25. Re: Bad Experience with Original Tires
From: lhemb_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:11:53 EDT
From: Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Starting and low idle

I drove the car just about all day and noticed that the probelm was really 
the starting but that it would struggle to stay running, the idle seem to be to 
low. other times it worked fine. I must have started the car over 15 times 
today (a lot of driving) and only had it act up twice. once when it needed me to 
pump the gas which then the car would jerk after i put it in gear like it was 
going to stall unless i pumped the gas more. The other two times it would just 
need my help to get to a high idle, if i pumped the gas after it started so 
it wouldn't stall. But after a few mins I ran just fine.

Darryl
5898


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:13:13 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: idea for the group

Probably 95% of all the information given out over the list is in the
Technical manual.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com
We have a very well documented car.



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard [mailto:dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 2:32 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: idea for the group


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> List,
>
> I was thinking today about all the people who have problems getting
their car
> to idle correctly, running rich, running lean, even getting it to
start.
> wouldn't it be cool if the if the more knowledgable members of the
DML could kind
> of form a roundtable and come up with an addition to dmcnews.com
which would
> be kind of a tutorial on how to properly set up your car?
>

[quote trimmed by moderator]



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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:20:02 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: BAD TUNE-UP

What was done on the tune up.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: John Podlewski [mailto:john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 2:04 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] BAD TUNE-UP


> High idle(around 2000 RPM's)and  extremely rough running when
> gas is applied MY DELOREAN only goes at about 1 MPH yes 1 MPH
> and sometimes stalls!  It was given a tune-up by the mechanic,
> which I haven't paid for, at least YET. What could be causing
> this, sounds horrible and drives even worse?



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:46:51 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: HIGH IDLE

John, I know this is late, but fuel lines very seldom stop up. They are not
rubber. The injector has a filter in it that I can normally clean out with
the heated ultrasonic cleaner and the output port on the fuel distributor
has a filter basket in it also that can be cleaned or taken out. A vacuum
leak can cause the high idle or the idle speed sensor.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: John Podlewski [mailto:john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 5:40 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] HIGH IDLE


> Got my Delorean running today, mechanic says it was a
> bad acumulator and a clogged fuel line to the injector.
> However, it idles high says there now is another clogged
> rubber fuel hose(the one that goes to an injector to the
> fuel distributor).  Don't know if he knows what he is
> doing, but he did get it running? But he says that is
> what is causing it to idle so high around 2000 rpm's
> is he right or just wasting time and ofcoase $$$$?



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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: jordan rubin <nuttenschleuder_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: lights and such

hello all,

   just FYI.  I found that my glovebox lightbulb could
be replaced with radio shack PN# 272-1134. i picked a
pack up in the states.

who was the guy who was talking about replacing lights
with LED's.

if you are in the group, do you have part numbers and
a website that coorespond with the delorean lights.


thanx


jordan 11613



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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A BTTF Halloween


If I remember correctly the radiation suits they wore in the movie are just blank tyvek suits.They arent for radiation at all they are for protection from chemicals we use them where I work.Im not sure if ours look exactly like the ones in the movie but they would be free except for shipping if you havent already got something.Any screen printing shop would be able to ad the radiation logo for cheap.



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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:21:54 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: ODD vs EVEN Fire

I know this has been talked about before but I can't find it...  What is the 
difference between Odd and Even fire?

Thanks,

Dave & 6530


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:56:12 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Starting and low idle

Darryl, Read the plugs, if it's starting ok but having a hard time running
then you may have a fuel dumping problem. Take out a plug and go to the plug
cart on the web site to see the condition. If the car is flooding they
should be black. There are several things that could cause this. Warm up
regulator/Control pressure regulator, Idle speed motor
not opening, idle speed micro switch not working, vacuum problems, control
plunger out of adjustment and more.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:12 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Starting and low idle


> I drove the car just about all day and noticed that the probelm
> was really the starting but that it would struggle to stay running,
> the idle seem to be to low. other times it worked fine. I must
> have started the car over 15 times today (a lot of driving) and
> only had it act up twice. once when it needed me to pump the gas
> which then the car would jerk after i put it in gear like it was
> going to stall unless i pumped the gas more. The other two times
> it would just need my help to get to a high idle, if i pumped the
> gas after it started so it wouldn't stall. But after a few mins
> I ran just fine.
>
> Darryl
> 5898



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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:59:35 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: running light failure

Jonas,

You have a blown fuse.  The lighting systems are split on the D. Right 
and Left.  This is unlike other cars.

In some respects it is an interesting safety feature.

BOB





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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:00:47 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: delorean air conditioning question

It is best to use a vacuum gauge.  CFM is irrelavent.  Get vacuum to 
under 20 inches.  IF you can't there is a leak.






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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:03:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: ac question

I put the wrong information in my first question 5cfm is the pumps speed.It can pull 20 microns of vacuum enough or to much?



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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:37:04 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: vacuum problem analysis please!

You keep coming back to the vacuum advance. Just put a vacuum source
on it and see if it moves. Measure for vacuum before and after the
electric valve. Having it connected in reverse causes the vacuum
advance to stay "stuck" in advance as the vacuum isn't dumped. Make
sure the mechanical advance is not stuck. If your eyes are burning
from the exhaust it IS running too rich. The causes include a mixture
screw way out of adjustment, a dirty injector, a misfiring cylinder, a
leaking cold start valve.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello List,
> 
> i have a number of tests completed now in my plea for help from the
smart 
> guys out there.
> 
> to recap:
> my car has been tuned for the last three years with two things wrong - 
> 





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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:39:50 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: vacuum problem analysis please!

Andy, I cut out a lot of the message to get to the question. Is the enging
hot or cold while performing the test. Also, you can bypass the vacuum
solenoid and go straight to the ignition and see if you have the same
results.
The green air pivot switch or vacuum swithch works off the hot or cold water
in the internal water pipe. When the coolant is cold the vacuum is routed to
the WUR and the vacuum is shut off to the solenoid for the ignition
distributor advance. After the coolant heats up, the valve closes the vacuum
to the WUR and then is directed to the vacuum solenoid for the ignition
distributor. But, If the car is at idle and the micro switch is tripped and
is  working, then the vacuum solenoid is electrically shuts off  vacuum to
the ignition distributor to advance the timing untill the idle speed
microswitch is dis engauged.
The other problem with the fuel seems to be the WUR allowing the control
plunger in the FD to rise to high creating and enrichment or there is a
vacuum leak which I know you would have checked.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:Soma576_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 5:19 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] vacuum problem analysis please!


F).  HOWEVER, when i replace that hose onto the advance diaphragm, i can
feel
that there is vacuum on it (there shouldn't be) and it then shoots up the
advance on the timing.  now with the timing wheel on my light at 0 (not
showing
advance) i can see the timing mark way up at like 50 deg BTC.  at this
point, the
car runs smoother and better (when advanced and at idle).

3) started inspecting WHY there is vacuum to the diaphragm when the car is
hot.  checked the idle speed switch.  with a meter, i verified that with the
car
not running, the switch does indeed function when activated (checked ohms).

4) started the engine and with it running and at idle, checked the voltage
at
the electrical connector on the side of the advance solenoid.  got a
definite
14.5 volts.  this should indicate that the idle speed switch is working
correctly and it is tripped at the proper times.  this should also indicate
that
the advance solenoid, if it is not broken, should be energizing AND should
not
allow vacuum to the distributer advance diaphragm.  yet it DOES!

what has me puzzled is that this would tend to indicate a broken advance
solenoid.  however i replaced this part this summer already (and perhaps i
was the
one who routed those hoses backwards when installing it).  i suppose i COULD
have a defective part, but i got it from Grady and it wasn't a used part.

also note that when the car is running,  it tends to smooth out for a bit,
then begin to surge a little, then smooth out, etc.  the exhaust is very
rich,
too.  sometimes when working over the engine it is enough to make your eyes
water a little.

what else should i check in order to rule out other possibilities?  the only
conclusion i can come to is that the advance solenoid is broken, but it's
hard
to believe since it is a pretty new part.  any other ideas?  other tests of
other parts to do?  certainly the problem (or at least A problem) is the
presense of vacuum at the diaphragm even when the solenoid is receiving
14.5V from
the idle microswitch.  what else could be at fault?

I am at a loss and would like to continue working on this over the weekend,
so if you have a response, please CC it to my actual email address as well
as
to the list so i can get it right away.

Thanks in "advance" (heh heh)
Andy



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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:39:21 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Tires

And you would be wrong.  Age does deteriorate tires.
The rubber compounds outgas from the moment they 
are released from the mold.  You can vacuum pack
a fresh tire, stuff it in a barrel, stuff the 
barrel in a climate controlled room, turn out 
the lights and lock the door and after 10 years
the tire is still junk.  The tread will harden,
the sidewalls will stiffen, and the tire will 
lose grip and stability.  All those sprays do 
NOTHING to preserve a tire because they can't
stop the chemistry.  If they did, you would have
to coat the whole tire inside and out, not just 
the part you can see. 

If you just want something to hold the car up
and look pretty, go ahead and spray up your old
tires.  If you want to experience the car as the
designers intended, you need new tires.

--
Mike

> From what I understand, driving on NCTs is still fine as long as they have been 
> out of sunlight and have been siliconed over the years.  The only two things 
> that detiorate rubber tires are UV Light and Ozone, NOT Age.  Applying 
> silicone/eagle 1 tire shine/whatever should prevent the Ozone from destroying 
> the rubber (dryrot).  Look around the outside of the tire for cracks, and you 
> know the tires  have not been cared for.  New tires are still the best option, 
> but some NCTs are still very useable.
> 
> Patrick
> 1880   "88NGONE"



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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:44:43 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: delorean air conditioning question

You need to pull a vacuum of 700 microns minimum. You cannot read this
on an ordinary compound gauge, you need an electronic vacuum gauge.
You should hold this level for at least 1/2 hour, the longer and lower
the better. I try for 400 microns for 1 hour. If you can't get there
it could mean either leaks, contamination, or too much moisture in the
accumulater. CFM is short for Cubic Feet per Minute which is a
measurement of flow, not pressure-vacuum. You can't damage the seals
from too much vacuum. In reality it is just the removal of atmospheric
pressure which is around 15 psi so you can think of it as a negative
15 psi pressure. If any seals do fail during an evacuation they
wouldn't have held up against the pressure which on the low side can
go over 100 psi and on the high side over 150 psi.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> I need some help with evacuating the air conditioning system.Does
anyone know how many cfm to bring it down too? My pump can pull 5 cfm
but im sure thats way more than necessary.Im not certified for  air
conditioning work so I dont know.Can to much vacuum damage the
deloreans ac system? It seems to much would cause the seals to
fail.Isnt that correct? 
> 
>  
> 
>                                                  thanks guys




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:45:56 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Starting and low idle

Darryl, Extend or run an extra ground wire to the transmission from the
ground on the frame. This will help starting if you have a bad or high
resistance ground that is now connected.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:Swoyerzone_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 11:50 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Starting and low idle


> I assumed that it maybe electrical most if not all the
> fuel components have been cleaned, rebuilt or replaced
> in the last few two or three years. The car starts normal
> most of the time but once in a while it just won't start.
> If you turn and hold the key the engine will struggle,
> and if you pump the gas peddle it sometimes gives the
> engine a second long before it stalls. but if you turn
> the key then let the car sit for maybe 5min it will start
> right back up, and will be just a little shaky and will
> smooth out after an it runs for 15sec or so.
>
> Darryl
> 5898



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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:48:57 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: running light failure

Sounds like a dirty ground connection or a bad connection in a plug.
Follow the wiring harness and clean all the plugs and any wires you
can find going to the frame. You could also have a problem with the
headlight switch and-or the turn switch and-or the flasher switch. Get
a wiring diaghram and follow the problem to it's source. You don't
need a fancy meter, just a test light.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jonas P" <Delorean3543_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> on my 81 vin 3543, the running lights on the driver's side (yellow 
> light on front bumper, yellow light on front fender, red light on 
> rear quarter panel, and center bulb on rear tail lamp assembly) will 
> not come on.  in addition to that, the front blinker on driver's 
> side works but does not stay on when the lights are turned on.  the 
> passenger side lights work fine.  i have checked all the bulbs and 
> cleaned all the terminals with no luck.  can anyone point me in the 
> right direction to solve this problem.  
> 
> thanks for your help.
> 
> jonas 3543




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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:10:07 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: delorean air conditioning question

With equipment normally available you can't pull too much vacuum. 
However, you need to pull close to 20 inches to get all the moisture 
out. Need to run pump and hold vacuum for a half hour.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> 
> I need some help with evacuating the air conditioning system.Does 
anyone know how many cfm to bring it down too? My pump can pull 5 
cfm but im sure thats way more than necessary.Im not certified for  
air conditioning work so I dont know.Can to much vacuum damage the 
deloreans ac system? It seems to much would cause the seals to 
fail.Isnt that correct? 
> 
>  
> 
>                                                  thanks guys




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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:16:58 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: running light failure

Sounds like a fuse. Numbers 2 and 8 run the markers left and right 
respectively. They have also been known to meltdown.

Harold McElraft - 3354


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jonas P" <Delorean3543_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> on my 81 vin 3543, the running lights on the driver's side (yellow 
> light on front bumper, yellow light on front fender, red light on 
> rear quarter panel, and center bulb on rear tail lamp assembly) 
will 
> not come on.  in addition to that, the front blinker on driver's 
> side works but does not stay on when the lights are turned on.  
the 
> passenger side lights work fine.  i have checked all the bulbs and 
> cleaned all the terminals with no luck.  can anyone point me in 
the 
> right direction to solve this problem.  
> 
> thanks for your help.
> 
> jonas 3543




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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:16:03 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: vacuum problem analysis please!

List,

with a listmember's help i was able to find the source of my problems.  one 
of the wires on the back of the microswitch wasn't very tight and wasn't giving 
a constant power source.  now that i cut the wires and recrimped them, the 
vacuum goes away when the engine gets hot like it should. now i no longer have 
advance at idle.  base timing was also about 4 deg off, which i have corrected. 
 now i am positive my advance system and microswitch works the way it should 
and my timing is perfect.

however now that everything is set right, i have a couple more collateral 
problems:

1). when you give it some gas and let it come back down to idle, it idles at 
about 1000RPM.  that's too high.  it is smooth but won't go all the way back 
down.  if i let it run at 1000 for about a minute it actually drops back down 
on its own sometimes.  what is causing this? i am 100% positive that the idle 
microswitch works and switches as it should....

2).  i think the stop screw on the throttle hammer (the piece that trips the 
microswitch) -  is not set right anymore.  i unscrewed it to see if it would 
drop the idle a little (i messed with it last year too so i wondered if it was 
set right anymore) but it didn't help any.  actually i know it shouldn't since 
idle is electronically controlled but maybe it was WAY off... how do i set 
that stop screw (the lower one - not the one that hits the switch) against the 
brass stop piece so it is adjusted right?  if it is down too far, the throttle 
plates are cracked open, so where is the right point to screw it in?  either 
way, right now it still trips my microswitch.  i just want the throttle plates 
open however much they should be at idle.

all tests are being done with the engine at operating temp. i can hear my 
idle speed motor buzzing too.

any tips are appreciated - please CC to my personal email so i can keep 
working over the weekend.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:00:09 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)

In a message dated 9/27/03 8:15:51 AM Central Daylight Time, 
brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net writes:

> Louie G and I ran into pack of rice burners at a fast food restaurant
> on the way to SEDOC. Wings, gee whiz decals, the works. Met them again
> on a Georgia interstate hill. Easily accelerated past. Never saw them
> again after that.

It may be of note to know that the vast majority of these cars have $10K sunk 
into the body kits, wheels, tires, stereo, and tinting.  at car shows i very 
rarely see one that actually has any engine modifications besides your typical 
cold-air intake, and a free-flow exhaust. it is also of note to see that this 
year's Honda Civic puts out at best 127hp with the most powerful engine 
option.  with all those wings and body kits, surely the car weighs more now than it 
did stock (slower too).

in fact, where i work i see cars like this all the time and usually they put 
most of their money on purple and yellow wiring looms/conduit, billet oil 
caps, and stainless braided radiator hoses.  usually the engines and transmissions 
leaks copious amounts of fluid, not to mention most of the lowered ones have 
dented transmission pans or frames.  oh yeah - almost every one of them has 
the Check Engine light illuminated.

all show, no go - but then i suppose some would say that about the DeLorean 
too?

I would like to put the 3.0L quad cam motor from my 94 Lexus ES300 in a 
DeLorean.  about 197hp with lots of pull - even on the interstate at 85mph.

Andy


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Message: 22
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:42:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap-Out

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Michael T Twigger wrote:

> Does anyone know what is included in the $20k Northstar 4.6 V8
> conversion? 
> The engine is priced at around 10k so what else is included?

The entire job, start to finish.  You deliver them a DeLorean, they give 
you a fully running, fully functional, drive-it-home DeLorean with a 
Northstar engine.

The Northstar conversion is a professional job that you don't have to
worry about, that (IIRC) preserves the A/C and other amenities, doesn't
add a ton of weight, and Just Works.  Sure, the conversion probably costs
more than the car, but you can't underestimate the amount of trouble you
will get yourself into doing an engine swap.  It always costs more and
takes longer than you think.

Also, my take on the transmission issue, is that when it comes to breaking
transmissions, driving style matters a lot more than the amount of power
you put in the transmission.  If you're gentle, don't speed shift or drop
the clutch, the transmission will hold up to a lot more power.  And even
then, torque matters a lot more than HP.  If your motor is a big torque
monster like a smallblock V8, you need a tougher transmission than if it
is a high-revving motor with most of the power up high.  The Northstar, 
despite being a V8, is still fairly gentle on the parts.




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Message: 23
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:26:30 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ODD vs EVEN Fire

Look at the top of a DeLorean distributor cap - the sparks (and 
therefore pistons) are not distributed 60 degrees apart.

Martin

doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>I know this has been talked about before but I can't find it...  What is the 
>difference between Odd and Even fire?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dave & 6530
>
>  
>





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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:40:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: ODD vs EVEN Fire

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> I know this has been talked about before but I can't find it...  What is
> the difference between Odd and Even fire?

With odd fire, the cylinders fire in pairs, the two cylinders in the same 
"length-wise" position firing in rapid succession, then a pause, then two 
more, then another pause, then the last two.  With even fire, the 
cylinders all fire individually and are distributed around the engine in 
an order which minimizes vibration and noise.

Generally odd-fire engines have more low-end torque, but even-fire engines 
run more smoothly.  There's a big difference in the sound and feel, but 
not that much in the performance.

There are a lot more even fire engines around because most people value 
noise and smoothness over torque, but odd fire engines are still popular 
in places- the Viper uses an odd fire engine (but of course with five 
groups of cylinders instead of three :) )




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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:59:36 EDT
From: lhemb_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Bad Experience with Original Tires

Since the age question on original DeLorean tires has come up. I would like 
to share my personal experience with the group. I bought my DeLorean (#5830) in 
1989 from the original owner with 13,000 miles on it. The car had always been 
stored indoors and only driven occasionally. The original tires were still on 
the car and they looked brand new. In December 1992 (mileage was 16,000+) my 
wife was driving the DeLorean on I-295 in Jacksonville, Florida at about 65 
mph. Suddenly and without warning, the left rear tire blew out. Fortunately, she 
was able to maintain control of the vehicle and bring it to a safe stop on 
the shoulder of the highway. I happened to be following her at the time in 
another vehicle and saw the tire blow. Examination of the tire disclosed that a 
sizable portion of the outside sidewall had blown out of the tire.

Since the tire blew for no apparent reason, I contacted Goodyear and 
eventually spoke with someone in their engineering department. I was told even though 
the tires had very little tread wear, they were eleven years old at the time 
of the failure, and that time takes its toll on tire composition. I was also 
told that exposure to light hastens the deterioration of the tire material, but 
in no case would he recommend using tires over ten years old on any vehicle 
that is driven at highway speeds.

I replaced the original tires with Goodyear Aquatreads in 1992. I now have 
21,000 miles on these tires, and I plan to replace them in the near future.

Brian McCabe & Harvey (5830)
Santa Rosa Beach, Florida


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