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To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1685
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2003 5:08 AM

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There are 7 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: delorean air conditioning question
From: john fredt <>

2. Tire/Tyre Science..
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

3. Re: Power fluctuations, normal??
From: "Adam 16683" <>

4. BTTF radiation costumes
From: john fredt <>

5. Re: DeLorean model name...and other registration info
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

6. Toby TABs
From: Samuel <>

7. Re: Re delorean air conditioning question
From: "content22207" <>

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:23:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: john fredt <>
Subject: Re: Re: delorean air conditioning question

This pumps specs say it can only pull 20 microns and it was extremely expensive.I cant imagine what one that pulls 700 microns would cost .Something seems a little wrong with this picture.what kind of pump do you use?


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:14:25 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Tire/Tyre Science..

--- In, PRC1216_at_dml_a... wrote:
> From what I understand, driving on NCTs is still fine as long as
they have been out of sunlight and have been siliconed over the years.
 The only two things that detiorate rubber tires are UV Light and
Ozone, NOT Age.  Applying silicone/eagle 1 tire shine/whatever should
prevent the Ozone from destroying the rubber (dryrot).  Look around
the outside of the tire for cracks, and you know the tires  have not
been cared for.  New tires are still the best option, but some NCTs
are still very useable.
> Patrick
> 1880   "88NGONE"

Please take note: This isn't an attack againt Patrick, or anyone else
who still uses NCTs. It just some facts, and a bit of speculation at
the end.

Yes, it is true that the two most damaging, non-road hazard factors to
tires are UV & Ozone. And to compensate, tires feature built-in
measures to protect themselves from these detrimental influences. But
both measures technicly can be used up, and can cause a  *technical*
shelf life, that is determined by how said tires were stored. So while
there is no >exact< experation date of when you should stop using the
tires, you can extend their life. But they still can go bad over time.
Tires really don't so much "dry out" when they rot, but the rubber
compound decomposes.

UltraViolet Light Damage:
Rubber is naturally gray coloured, and carbon polymers are added into
the formula to make the rubber black. Black of course is the best
color at absorbing heat & UV. And the carbon in the rubber will absorb
the UV, and convert it into heat to be disappated, and thus the rubber
is saved. But the cost of this protection comes at the sacfirice of
the carbon in the rubber. So over time, the carbon protection will
wear out. The only way to truly extend the life of the UV protectant
is to store the tires in a COOL DARK enviornment where they are never
exposed to light. Simply covering the tires with blankets isn't good
enough. You've got to make sure that the coverings are both UV
resistant & protect UV from penetrating thru, and that the they also
cover the inner sidewalls as well. Light can after all reflect under
the car.

Ozone Damage:
Ozone is another damaging element to rubber, that will also break it
down. And to combat this, a wax polymer is added into the tire
formula. Ozone is created when oxygen encounters arcing electricity,
such as lightning. So anything from light switches, to relays can
generate ozone. However the biggest ozone generators that threaten
tires are almost unavoidable when it comes to cars: And that is
flourescent shoplights! The ballasts used not just to start the lamps,
but to continuously operate them continuously generate steady amounts
of ozone. The good news is that as your tire rotates down the road, it
of course flexs. This allows the wax to gently secreet out, or
"bloom", and replenish the outer coating. Anyone who's ever worn
natural leather shoes has seen this same thing. The more you walk, the
more the natural animal fats in the hide rise to the surface as the
leather strecthes and flexes. Anywho, the wax compound as you can
guess sacrifices itself too in order to protect the rubber from the
damaging effects of ozone. But just like the carbon additive, it too
has a finite amount the will eventually exhaust itself.

However, this protection will only work on a car that is driven
regularly. Because after all, you must flex the rubber in the tires,
to force out fresh wax to replace what has been stripped away by ozone!

Extending tire life:
Yes, as stated before, you can extend the life of tire rubber. But you
must be VERY care as to what you use! Petrolium distillates are BAD!
They end up stripping the protectants on the surface, exposing the
rubber, and acellerating the deterioration. As I have seen on many
websites, use only water-borne polymers, siloxane or amino functional
dressings when cleaning/protecting rubber surfaces on a car. This goes
for tires, bumper trim, door seals, etc... These types of products
will allow you to not only to acheive an orignal shine, but you'll
also maintain it, and coat the rubber surface with an additional layer
of UV & Ozone protectants. You just have to let them dry before usage
so the protectant coatings will proply ahere to the rubber. This is
the opposite of heavy petrolium distillates, and other types of
damaging dressings. They reccomend that you drive the car asap, in
order to for the centerfugal force of the tire spinning to sling the
crap off as quickly as possible to actually minimize damage (but
screwing up paint surfaces of the car, and wheels in the process).

Old tires are NOT safe to run on. If you've got a car that you trailer
everywhere, and use for competition/show purposes only, that's one
thing. Considering what one can pay simply for 6-12 months worth of
insurance, a set of brand-new tires is perhaps on of the best
investments in safety, and protection that you can get. Yeah, I'm sure
that you can extend the life of the NCT's, but why bother? The risks
involved are FAR MORE expensive than what a new set of tires costs.
The NCT's use decades old, out-dated technology. I don't care the
Goodyear happens to still use the same tread pattern a 3 obscure
tires. The NCTs present a danger with their old technology, and their
unreliable condition. Just because they look good doesn't mean that
they're truly safe under the surface. Remember the Firestone
Wilderness A/Ts? True, this was due to a manufaturing problem, and not
age. But the possability for damage to your's and other cars is the same.

Another VERY dark aspect to this is the link that David Teitelbaum
provided. If attorneys are starting to see legal cases where tire ages
are blamed as a factor, several forgein car makers are instructing car
owners to replace old tires, and even the British govt. is instituting
laws forbidding the sales of old tires, then that should sure as hell
be a warning sign to get those old tires off ASAP!!! Lawyers are
looking for someone to sue, and tire and car manufacturers are looking
to avoid getting the blame, that would leave only one person liable:
The owner of a car that had those old tires. Give it time, and these
types of regulations will eventually become law. Safety first: You
don't want to hurt anyone else out there on the road, any more than
you'd want to wreck your car. And you certainly wouln't want to get
charged with criminal negligence if you simply have a blow out on the
road. Even if it's not due to age (I once wasted a brand new tire that
had less than 30 miles on it when a nail punctured the sidewall on the
freeway, and fishtailed like hell all over before even braking!), I
would be seriously concerned about the legal ramifications 20 year old
tires could bring down on me. After all, you may not be physicly
impared, but if your BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) is beyond the *legal*
limit, then you will be charged with DWI, and perhaps even
responsability of a collision, even if you didn't cause it. So if
you're in an accident with NCT's, whos to say that fact alone couldn't
be twisted to your opponents advantage against you?

In other words, don't be cheap. Scrap the NCTs, and move on. There is
absolutely no reason, nor excuse to keep them in service.

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:18:11 -0000
From: "Adam 16683" <>
Subject: Re: Power fluctuations, normal??

Okay, thanks for theadvice. Yeah some of the grounds do look bad. The 
ones under the trunk cover that connect to the front fender panels 
look the worst.. one isnt even connected.. Looks like i got a project.

thanks, adam

--- In, Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> This was one of the issues Bob "Zilla" spoke about at the SEDOC 
meet recently. This is a good sign that your grounds need cleaning, 
and fuses should be replaced with fresh ones. Bob reccomended some 
cleaning agent for the grounds that I can't remember right now... 
anyone remember it? Bueller...?
> Louie Golden
> VIN- Coming Again Soon! :-)
> --- "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> My car has had minor power fluctuations ever since I got it. For 
> example, the dash lights dim when the turn signal light is on. 
> Is this an old problem due to the stock alternators/voltage 
> regulators?
> thanks, adam


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: john fredt <>
Subject: BTTF radiation costumes

I mentioned on the list that I could supply white tyvek suits similar to the "radiation suits" worn by doc and marty in BTTF.I have agrees to try and get them to several people who have inquired.I realize I may soon be overrun with requests.I wanted everyone to know that these suits are cheap and readily available from many sources.Here is a link to one supplier

They even have the hoods available which the suits I am able to get do not.The suits run about $5.50 apiece Im not sure what shipping would be.I dont know what type of gas mask they use in BTTF but im sure any gas mask would do.Trust me though you dont want to try and wear one of those masks for very long.You could probably get any screen print shop to put the radiation symbol on it or just use spray paint and a stencil.



Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:24:23 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean model name...and other registration info

--- In, "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_n...> wrote:
> Hi,
> What is the correct model name for the DeLorean?
> I have found 2 variations:
> * DeLorean DMC-12
> * DeLorean LK Sport Coupé 
> (what the heck does LK stand for?)
> My registration document states: 
> DeLorean DMC-12 / 2.8i V6
> Does any of you have another model name stated in your registration

The correct model designation is indeed, "DMC-12". I have no clue as
to what "LK Sport Coupé" means, but I do know it's origin. When
Harrah's Auto Collection in Reno, NV acquired their Gold Amex car (2nd
built, 5-speed "Saddle" interior), the paperwork that came with it
designated it as a "LK Sport Coupé", and NOT a DMC-12. Why, I've no
clue, but from what I heard, the museum curator swears up and down
that's what the paperwork from the previous owner had printed on it.

Fast forward many years. Sunstar decided to release the 3 DeLorean
models based upon a regular DMC-12 (not stock, as can been seen by
that CD player & Self-Bleeder kit on the model), a BTTF2 conversion
for USH Theme park, and an Amex car, based upon the one in Reno, NV.
This is where the "LK Sport Coupé" title comes from. And if anyone
ever gets the chance to visit the museum, you'll see "LK Sport Coupé"
printed as the modem type right on the plaque in front of the car, and
assuming they STILL haven't dusted the car, my handprint on the
driver's fender (karma caught up to me with a vengance on that one!).
Which you can see for yourself with the following links:


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:06:52 -0400
From: Samuel <>
Subject: Toby TABs

I have 2 pair of spare Toby TABs (4 bolts) at my disposal. Never used. I 
thought about putting them up on EBay but then figured I would post to 
the list first.

I offer them up for the original $66 a pair + shipping that they sold 
for. Email me privately of course.



Message: 7
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:12:03 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: Re delorean air conditioning question

Actually 100 psi is rest pressure of both high and low sides together.
When refrigerating low side drops to 30 or so and high side climbs
close to 200. Is a nice chart page N:09:01 with expected R12 readings
at various. R134 a bit higher.

Note common thread in responses to original post: whatever method is
used, be sure to vacuum all outside air from system before charging.
Freon evaporates well below freezing point of water (20 some odd
degrees). Any moisture trapped on low side will freeze and clog
system. Can sometimes even see bands of ice on low side hose (easier
to see on conventional front engine car). I personally use engine
vacuum (17 inches) for 15-20 minutes.

Bill Robertson

>--- In, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> If any seals do fail during an evacuation they
> wouldn't have held up against the pressure which on the low side can
> go over 100 psi and on the high side over 150 psi.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> --- In, john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > 
> > I need some help with evacuating the air conditioning system.Does
> anyone know how many cfm to bring it down too? My pump can pull 5 cfm
> but im sure thats way more than necessary.Im not certified for  air
> conditioning work so I dont know.Can to much vacuum damage the
> deloreans ac system? It seems to much would cause the seals to
> fail.Isnt that correct? 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >                                                  thanks guys


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