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To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1688
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:09 AM

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There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)

2. Re: diagnosis

3. Re: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)

4. Re: Re: hard starting when cold?


6. Loss of coolant
From: "Jeff Lawson" <>

7. Re: hard starting when cold?
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

From: "Harold McElraft" <>

9. Re: Intreior Lights
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

From: "Harold McElraft" <>

11. Re: NOx
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

12. Re: Engine Mods
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

13. Re: Fuel questions
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

14. Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:08:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)

In a message dated 9/29/03 4:17:41 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> About the check engine lights, a cold air intake and free flow exhaust
> isn't going to turn on the check engine light on "almost every one of
> them".  Plus, why would the engine and transmission leak if there were no
> modifcations to them?  This makes no sense.

Check Engine lights and leaking engines and transmissions imply the owner's 
complete disregard for actual vehicle maintenence, or actually more likely, the 
owner bought the car for its looks or 'potential to rice out' rather than 
buying a car that was well taken care of before them.  not only that, but they 
don't put any money into keeping the car in top shape (except for the tire 
silicone and fresh wax) such as repairing these types of things. this is as i see 
it every day at work.  not to say ALL are like this, but a significant 

> Body kits and spoilers can and do create downforce, regardless of where
> the engine is.  

On the contrary, you will find that NO body kit or spoiler rice-out 
manufacturer actually claims or offers proof of any actual downforce or aerodynamic 
advantage. in fact, one popular brand even says out right that their product is 
not meant to do these things.  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:03:02 EDT
Subject: Re: diagnosis

In a message dated 9/29/03 6:13:20 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> Quick questions does the advance solenoid valve have to be grounded cause 
> it wasn't, just try wrapped and the vacuum lines that are connected to it 
> where not connected right. 

The advance solenoid will receive 12V for energizing at all times, but will 
not cut off vacuum like it should above 104degF w/o a proper ground at the idle 
speed switch (the lower wire on the back of it, should be black i think....). 

it is working correctly if the car is hot, at idle, and there is no vacuum in 
the hose that goes to the vacuum advance -on the distributor - .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:07:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)

In a message dated 9/29/03 6:16:27 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> Too high octance won't cause pre-ignition, but it can cause a fouled
> miss. If engine isn't high compression, or high temp, factory ignition
> may not yield enough burn time. Isn't time on these new cars computer
> controlled (non-adjustable)?

No distributor on most vehicles made since the early/mid 90's. now it's coil 
packs, kind of like a digital distributor.  the EP-ROM (i think) gives the 
ignition system its timing information.  i suppose when you buy a 'performance 
chip'  the timing is modified to accomodate other changes.

> Most of the rice burners I encounter are running stock exhaust
> manifolds. Backpressure doesn't drop until rediculously loud muffler.

my experience exactly.

> Isn't stock DeLo already 9 seconds or so 0-60?

yes, if it is running right:-)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:22:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: hard starting when cold?

In a message dated 9/29/03 4:19:11 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> First: do you have resistance on air sensor plate at key turn? Ran
> into fellow as SEDOC with leaking fuel distributor regulator. Didn't
> have enough pressure to crack injectors until pump had spun for a while.

Yes, there is plenty of resistance on sensor plate.  

> You didn't mention cold start valve diagnosis. Is it pumping? Check
> for 12v in (white/red) and a good ground (blue/black) when coolant
> cold. If you have no ground then thermal time switch is bad or not
> grounding itself (or wiring is bad to it).

Well here is what i have done to test it, not sure what can be extrapolated 

1. Unplugged cold start valve and attempted to start car.  Car starts exactly 
the same way when cold with or without the cold start valve plugged in.  it 
is 50 deg ambient temp and take about 4-5 sec before the engine fires and 
starts. obviously the cold start system is not functioning properly. 
2. checked for clean contacts on thermotime switch and cold start valve.
3. put a meter to the blue connector that goes onto valve and cranked the 
car. when cranking, the meter takes about 1 second to climb to almost exactly 4 
volts, stays there for a few seconds, then tapers off.  does the valve only 
need 4 volts to fire?
4. removed cold start valve and put in a cup.  reconnected electricals and 
cranked car.  absolutely no gas is coming from the valve.
5. reinstalled the plug and removed fuel line.  loads of fuel pressure in 
there so i know it is getting gas.

Based on this information i assume either:
1. cold start valve may have voltage but isn't grounding.  where is the 
ground and how do i test it with a meter?
2. cold start valve internal actuator or whatever is in there is permanantly 
stalled and won't move to allow gas thru when receiving power.
3. thermotime switch isn't putting out proper signal voltage to cold start 
valve. is 4 volts all it needs?

> What is condition of ignition spark? How many volts are going into
> coil? Is your starting relay cutting out one of the ballast resistors? 
> Try running a 12v jumper to positive side of coil while cranking (this
> is temporary -- don't screw it to coil terminal).

I have an accell performance coil as well as a complete tune-up with Grady's 
parts about one year ago.  in light of the above cold start information, i 
think the valve is the problem, not spark.

> Don't worry about accelerator pedal. Fuel delivery system has no pump
> attached (like carburetor). Opening throttle plates will only make
> starting harder.

Well i know the manual says to open throttle but from what other owners have 
said, if everything works correctly this isn't necessary. i am primarly 
concerned with optimum performance of my car. 

> Congrats otherwise. Can take a while to tune PRV just right.

yeah, it only took about three years to get it this far (as readers of this 
newsgroup can verify!!!).  once i get this cold start problem fixed, i believe 
it will be about done!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:28:22 EDT
Subject: Re: NOT TUNED

In a message dated 9/29/03 4:15:22 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> Well looks like it is not just crossed wires or vacuum hoses although two 
> of the hoses were not connected.  Doubt that would cause my D to idle fine but 
> only go 1 mph when gas is applied.  I have tried checking the thermistor and 
> it is connected and spark plug wires are on in correct firing order.  I just 
> don't know what the mechanic did to get it running this bad.  I'm sure it 
> can't be anything major but I can't figure it out.  I'll check the timing 
> tomorrow but it idles around 1000 RPM's now which better,  but can't drive it.   
> Any Suggestions?

my car idled at 1000 RPM until, as described in my previous post yesterday, i 
had to recrimp the wiring to my idle speed switch (loose wire for ground) and 
i had to remove both set screws for the throttle and put them back in 
properly.  if a mechanic has no idea what he is doing, he/she would probably start 
playing with either the three big brass screws in the middle of the intake 
manifold above the water pump (all should be lightly seated) or they might try to 
play with the throttle stop screws.  perhaps your lower stop screw for the 
butterfly plates is down too far, causing the plates to be cracked and let too 
much air in.  since you didn't do the work yourself, i wouldn't doubt ANYTHING, 
and suspect EVERYTHING!

just keep your cool and check things out one at a time. you will get it!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:28:54 -0000
From: "Jeff Lawson" <>
Subject: Loss of coolant

I just recently picked up VIN 11475 as my first DeLorean.  On the way home a coolant 
hose came loose, while I was on the highway.  By the time I pulled over the temp 
gauge had just climbed to its highest position just in time for me to shut the engine 
off and wait for everything to cool down.  Luckily I had my cell phone and was only 
three miles from a friend with extra coolant on hand.  After I tightened the loose hose 
back on and refilled it with coolant (it took 2 gallons of water/coolant) everything was 
fine, I think.  It there anything that I should be concerned over (other than another 
loose coolant hose)?

Any advice is appreciated!  Thanks!



Message: 7
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:41:19 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: hard starting when cold?

The usual culprit causing your symptom is the feed to increase volts 
from the ignition resistor when starting. There is a relay mounted 
in the engine compartment on the firewall by the resistor. That 
relay is activated by the starter solenoid and feeds battery voltage 
to the split side of the resistor to provide increased volts to the 
coil during the start phase. Dirty connections and poor relay 
continuity can cause the volts to be too low. Put in a new relay and 
clean the connections. Clean the connections on the resistor too. 
Test the circuit to be sure it is working properly. You may have to 
clean the connection down by the starter too - it is a blue/yellow 
wire connection. It should now start like it was never turned off. 

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> List,
> I am getting very close to having my car tuned as well as it will 
ever be.  
> Now it is doing GREAT when idling, starts immediately when warm, 
in fact it is 
> ALMOST perfect... 
> the only 'problem' i have is that when the car is stone cold in 
the morning 
> (50 deg F), it seems to take a little too long to start the motor 
> cranking.  here is my procedure:
> 1. put the key in ignition
> 2. don't touch the gas at all, just push in the clutch
> 3. begin cranking.  
> 4. cranks for about 4 sec or so, starts to fire, then within 1/2 a 
second it 
> is running
> does it normally take this long for the car to start when cold?
> i checked all my fuel pressures and rest, primary, and control 
pressures are 
> all within specs.  if this isn't right, where else should i look?  
if you have 
> a suggestion, do you have a test to rule it out?  i'm guessing 
either a 
> problem with the CPR, cold start valve, or thermo-time switch, but 
i don't want to 
> start tearing things apart unless this isn't typical.
> not too terrible or pressing a problem, but i'm just making sure 
> is perfect.  
> Andy
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:44:25 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: NOT TUNED

Is the throttle linkage working the throttle? Was it reconnected 

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_y...> 
> Well looks like it is not just crossed wires or vacuum hoses 
although two of the hoses were not connected.  Doubt that would 
cause my D to idle fine but only go 1 mph when gas is applied.  I 
have tried checking the thermistor and it is connected and spark 
plug wires are on in correct firing order.  I just don't know what 
the mechanic did to get it running this bad.  I'm sure it can't be 
anything major but I can't figure it out.  I'll check the timing 
tomorrow but it idles around 1000 RPM's now which better,  but can't 
drive it.   Any Suggestions?
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:48:20 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: Intreior Lights

It is the white relay located in the relay compartment next to the 
cooling fan relay. Take it out to confirm.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, steve trimble <stevetrimble52_at_dml_y...> 
> Can anyone shed some light on the location of the
> device that gradually dims the interior lights.
> (Pardon the pun).
> Anyone on here from the Kentucky area?
> Thanks,
> Steve
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:53:15 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

Actually John, I agree with you, except for the billy club part.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_y...> 
> NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER! let anyone tamper with a bosch k jettronic 
mechanical fuel injection system if it is working!! If the car is 
acting funny chances are its something else.Mechanical fuel 
injection is very reliable nothing else on the car is. Check 
everything else before touching the mechanical injection 
system.There are practically no mechanics who know how to service 
these fuel systems.Anyone else who claims he can adjust or "tweak" 
it I advise you knock them out with a billy club and drag them a 
safe distance from your vehicle.Start collecting literature and 
service manuals on bosch systems thats your only hope now.Four 
months of sitting shouldnt have been that hard on it are you sure it 
wasnt longer?I am sure there will be plenty of rebuttals to this 
post but these are the same people who also posted previously "Tune 
up gone bad". So how much credibility can we really lend them?
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:55:34 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: NOx

It sounds like you didn't get the problem corrected????? By the way, 
are you using premium or regular fuel?

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, "George Ryerson" <TRyerson_at_dml_n...> 
> Hi All,
> I've been out of town lately ( again... )  and just wanted to say 
thanks to
> all, and the group, for the replies regarding my problems with 
> oxides in the Ohio emissions test.
> Regards,
> George Ryerson


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:04:01 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: Engine Mods

The best performance improvement I know of for the money is a good 
tune and one of the freer flowing exhaust kits from Grady or DMCH.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, "anaheim_21" <anaheim_21_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I would like to modify my engine to gain a liitle more perfomance 
> of it.  I do not have 5G's to send my car to Houston.
> I stumbled upon a website with a pic of a supercharged engine:
> g
> Does anyone anything about this engine or the car's owner?  Is 
> what the upgrade looks like from Houston???
> Greg
> 6598


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:09:37 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: Fuel questions

If you smell fuel you should be afraid, very afraid! Raw fuel is 
exposed to the atmosphere - find the source - follow your nose and 
keep one hand on the fire extinguisher.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List,
>   On my trip back home last night my trip was pretty uneventful. 
> Until I realized that my gas gauge was a little low. The only 
> was that it was too low for the distance that I had traveled. I 
> my trip meter to help measure the distance before I fill up again. 
> And usually I can go another 50 miles without any problem. I 
> be concerned but I was also smelling gasoline for most of the trip 
> back. Should I be concerned and if there is a problem. What should 
> do to fix it?
>     Thanks,
>        Kramer
>        ~#10610


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:15:42 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap-Out (Rice Burners)

--- In, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_j...> 
> I don't see how the rover v8 is the most logical engine 
> Considering that the Delorean has English electrics and suspension,
> german fuel injection, italian design, french/swedish engine, built 
> Ireland with an American Founder, I think the most logical engine is
> Japanese.

I'm not basing the engine choice on any type of "herritage", or 
anything like that. Imposing that kind of a restriction to either 
keep heritage, or to purposfuly be diverse is actually counter 
productive to the cause at hand.

I'm basing the choice on the fact that it's a commonly used motor in 
Europe for aftermarket engine swaps, and kit car building. Most 
notably, the Rover V8 is usually bolted up to the same Renault UN1 
transaxle that the DeLorean uses. So when it comes to tuning the 
engine, troubleshooting issues with the drivetrain (read: input 
shaft), and even unique/custom installations, a great deal of the 
footwork has already been done for the entire drive train, and not 
just the motor.

Japanese motors are fine, and they do indeed have their place in the 
automotive world. But they are not somthing that I would consider for 
an engine swap, or custom kit car. If I were going to need a I-4 
powerplant, I'd simply stick with a Volvo. Don't get me wrong, 
compact cars are nice. When fuel economy, and close city driving is 
concerned, I like compacts (although I am more partial to Korean 
cars, as opposed to Japanese). They are efficient, practical, and 
entirely foriegn to me. Sure they can be tuned, but why put all the 
extra effort into a 4-6 cylinder motor that offers virtually no after 
market support for custom installations both physicly, and for engine 
management (convert from OBD-II to some custom engine management 
system), and have helluva high costs when it comes to pricing out 
blocks and components (I prefer old fashioned type wrenching, and 
still visit the junkyards when looking for parts)? No thanks. Raw 
power and final output, balanced with installation compatability and 
cost are more important factors to me in a project like this, rather 
than achiving some ideal power=>displacement ratio.

While I was never that deep into it as many people in sport compact 
cars are now. I have been thru that "ricer" phase, and have realized 
just how damn goofy both my car looked, and how I did for doing that 
stupid stuff to it (wheel covers, amber foglights, neon license plate 
frame, fake cell phone antenna, steering wheel cover, windshield 
vinyl stickers, etc...). Now I know how my father felt when looking 
back on those checked pants, and leisure suits he wore back in the 

So yes, I've been there, and done that. So I can criticise. 
Fortunetly, my DeLorean somewhat "saved" me. When it came time to 
start "modifying" the exhaust, and the cold air intakes, I compared 
prices, and thought of saving my cash to buy a D sooner. Needless to 
say, the DeLorean won out.

So yes, I have respect for true tuners. The guys who truly do put 
their wrenches where their mouths are, and crease some true hell on 
wheels import dragsters. But dudes who simply stop at stickers and 
colored wiring harness sheaths? No, love there. Taking inspriation 
from the office "demotivational posters", my feelings can easily be 
summed up: "Incompetence: When You Earnestly Believe You Can 
Compensate For A Lack Of Skill By Doubling Your Efforts, There's No 
End To What You Can't Do."

No everyone is able to turn their Hondas into bad ass drag racers. 
And there isn't anything wrong with that. But atleast stop pretending 
that your car is somthing it isn't since it still has a stock motor.
vin 6585 "X"


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