From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1705
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2003 6:13 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

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There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Caravan to Fall Foliage from DC/Baltimore/Wilmington
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. Re: Re: a little more idle work needed
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: High Mileage
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>

4. Re: Delorean 800 # card
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Re: High Mileage
From: Twilightcall_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Re: High Mileage
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. RE: Re: a little more idle work needed
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

8. Brake Calipers
From: "anaheim_21" <anaheim_21_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: clutch slave rod travel?
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

10. Re: High Mileage
From: "Jason Rowe" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>

11. DCS Magazine...looking for suggestions!
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

12. Re: DCS Magazine...looking for suggestions!
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

13. ratting driver's side power window
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:10:22 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Caravan to Fall Foliage from DC/Baltimore/Wilmington

Am driving I-95 (or maybe the BW Parkway) from DC to Rendezvous #1
Saturday morning if any owners want to caravan from the south.

Contact me direct: brobertson(at)carolina.net

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:14:51 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: a little more idle work needed

In a message dated 10/9/03 10:34:51 PM Central Daylight Time, Soma576_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:

> Tonight after work i checked my ignition timing just for the heck of it.
> At idle with the car fully warm, it was advanced!!!
> I pulled the vac hose off the ignition advance and there was no vacuum!  
> Just 
> a popping kind of sound when i first removed it, but no sucking.  i put it 
> back on, checked the timing again, it was back to normal.  it seems like it 
> is 
> going back and forth on its own. the solenoid is new.
> 
> what gives?  i redid the wires on the idle speed switch and they aren't 
> loose 
> anymore.  what is going on here?
> 
> how do i hook up my multimeter so i can tell if the switch is operating 
> correctly? it is being engaged and disengaged when it should be.
> 
> i'm really confused now....
> Andy

OK List,

Another update.  with help from another DML'er on the instant messenger i 
started checking my idle speed switch.

Here is how it was wired up first.
from the wiring harness covered in black electrical tape, there were two 
wires, a black one and a black/green.  the black one went straight to the bottom 
connector on the idle speed switch.  the black/green went into a red splitter 
which turned into yellow and black/green.  the yellow one went to a noise 
eliminator on the base of the air meter while the black/green went to the top of 
the switch.

My dad and I looked at the wiring diagram and saw that it seemed like all 
three of those wires should be going to the same connector on the switch, while a 
4th wire went straight to engine ground.  my dad tested the switch and found 
that with an ohm meter's needles on each of the switch connectors, the switch 
made a circuit when the switch was depressed (at idle).  this would mean that 
at idle, the switch would make a ground as shown in the wiring diagram for the 
other wires on the other side.  In addition, when one needle was on either 
connector and the other needle was on the brass mount for the switch (or the 
screws that hold the switch to it), it never makes a complete circuit in any 
position - only when each needle is on each connector, which implies that the 
switch requires its own ground to work right.

So, this is what we did:
We took all three wires and crimped them together to the top tab of the 
switch.  we ran a wire to the block from the bottom tab.  When we put it all back 
together and started the car, the ignition advance had disappeared! i checked 
my base timing which was off about 4 degrees and corrected it.  when i remove 
the electrical connector from the advance solenoid, it goes into an advanced 
state.

Here is what i need to know now:
1. is what we did ok?  i don't have another car around here to check and see 
if this is how it should be. for all i know, the previous owner replaced the 
microswitch with a different one, rewired it, who knows what.  
2. if this isn't right, won't really work, goes around a different problem or 
whatever, how should it really be wired?  seems to work ok now though.
3. i think my only problem now is setting my CO.  i believe i have a vacuum 
leak in the A/C system somewhere because when i switch on the A/C, the car runs 
rougher.  how can i get the CO set while blocking off the vacuum lines up 
front, in case they are affecting idle quality?  
4. i bought a dwell meter and put one clip on the orange wire for the 
diagnostic plug and the other to my battery aux post.  the instructions for the meter 
don't say anything about this use for it, so i have no clue what i am doing 
except for info i found in the archives.  anyway, i set it for dwell, 6 cyl.  
when i put the green lead from the meter on the battery and the black lead on 
the orange wire (shop manual says this is the lambda readings), it makes the 
needle go to around 30 deg and doesn't move.  when i turn the CO screw, i 
replace the rubber cap and observe the meter.  after enough tweaking it goes to 
oscillating between 40-45 in a rhythm. however, the car seems to run somewhat 
rough and the exhaust smells rich.  also, when i give it some gas, i hear low 
thumping kind of sounds from the exhaust as it returns to a crappy idle. i have no 
idea how to use this thing or what i am doing. i think i need some real 
instructions.  it is actually running worse now that i started playing with the 
mixture screw than it did two days ago.

well this post is really long with a lot of information in it.  i know i have 
been posting a lot lately, but i really want to get this solved before winter 
storage.  where i live, in Fargo, ND, there are no places to take my car and 
no one has an exhaust analyzer like this anyway. closest one is 300 miles, 
which i am willing to visit but only once i have exhausted all my options.  i'm 
pretty much on my own and rely on the DML to get things running ok.

I hope there is someone out there patient enough to help me figure this out!

Thanks,
Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:49:07 -0000
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: High Mileage

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I would like to hear some opinons about high mileage Deloreans. 
I'm 
> considering purchasing one that has over 120K.  My main concern is 
> the mechanical part of the vehicle.  I can refurb an interior
later.  
> I know that a lot of you will say "It depends on how well the car
was 
> cared for", and that's fine.  However, I still would like to hear 
> from anyone who has owned/worked around one and has some
experiences 
> (good or bad) they would like to share.
> 
> Johnny

My D is a high-miler too. (120K).  Cosmetically, it sucks and those of
you who came out to Marvin Stein's London Canda meet last June can
attest to that... lol! The interior is a mess, the louvre is crappy
and so is the RH fender and door.  But, turn the key and she fires
right up.  I've only had one hard-start problem and that was, of
course, at Marvin's Canadian meet. Must be Murphy's Law!  You could
say that my DMC is a driveable restoration project, but I drive it
almost everyday during the summer months and it hasn't let me down. 

Now, I have done many updates to this car, such as the relays,
new alternator, S.S. clutch line, fuel pump, O2 sensor, etc. but
that's just common sense for any 22 year old car. With the recommended
upgrades, a Delorean can be an extremely reliable car, even with high
mileage. The PRV engine was extensively used in Europe for years and
proved to be very reliable.

It's my opinion that cars are built to be driven, not left sitting
idle in a garage, and Deloreans are no exception. In fact, long
periods of storage can be WORSE on a car then if it was being driven
all along.  Parts seize up and seals dry out from lack of use.

It all depends on what you want.  A low-miler, completely original
concourse Delorean will win at the car shows, but if it has only been
driven 1000 miles in the last 20+ years, I wouldn't trust it to get me
back home.    

Richard Rowe
5853




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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:40:48 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Delorean 800 # card

In a message dated 10/8/03 5:02:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
office_at_dml_philatelic.com writes:


> Has anyone ever seen one of these toll free number cards before?
> 
> Or for that matter, a dealer directory?
> 

Yep.  They turn up on ebay from time to time.  There is more than one version 
of the dealer directory folder, BTW.

Wayne A. Ernst
11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:27:14 EDT
From: Twilightcall_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: High Mileage

What is a fair price for a 100K + mileage car?



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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:49:34 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: High Mileage

This is very true. Our PRV guy said he has seen Renault 30's with 
300,000+ miles *still on the original clutch* (same as DeLorean). Just 
service them regularly, and keep driving them, the engine and (manual) 
tranny will do you proud.

At over 200,000 miles, you need to start thinking about changing the 
timing chains as the valves will get a little rattly, and in _extreme_ 
cases, they can snap.

Martin

Richard wrote:

>The PRV engine was extensively used in Europe for years and
>proved to be very reliable.
>  
>






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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:28:02 -0700
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: a little more idle work needed

Andy, It is strange that the vacuum would vary. You can tell if the idle
speed solenoid is working by touching it and tripping the Idle speed switch.
You will feel it switch.
You can also hear it.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:Soma576_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:15 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: a little more idle work needed


In a message dated 10/9/03 10:34:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
writes:

> Tonight after work i checked my ignition timing just for the heck of it.
> At idle with the car fully warm, it was advanced!!!
> I pulled the vac hose off the ignition advance and there was no vacuum!
> Just
> a popping kind of sound when i first removed it, but no sucking.  i put it
> back on, checked the timing again, it was back to normal.  it seems like
it
> is
> going back and forth on its own. the solenoid is new.
>
> what gives?  i redid the wires on the idle speed switch and they aren't
> loose
> anymore.  what is going on here?
>
> how do i hook up my multimeter so i can tell if the switch is operating
> correctly? it is being engaged and disengaged when it should be.
>
> i'm really confused now....
> Andy

OK List,

Another update.  with help from another DML'er on the instant messenger i
started checking my idle speed switch.

Here is how it was wired up first.
from the wiring harness covered in black electrical tape, there were two
wires, a black one and a black/green.  the black one went straight to the
bottom
connector on the idle speed switch.  the black/green went into a red
splitter
which turned into yellow and black/green.  the yellow one went to a noise
eliminator on the base of the air meter while the black/green went to the
top of
the switch.

My dad and I looked at the wiring diagram and saw that it seemed like all
three of those wires should be going to the same connector on the switch,
while a
4th wire went straight to engine ground.  my dad tested the switch and found
that with an ohm meter's needles on each of the switch connectors, the
switch
made a circuit when the switch was depressed (at idle).  this would mean
that
at idle, the switch would make a ground as shown in the wiring diagram for
the
other wires on the other side.  In addition, when one needle was on either
connector and the other needle was on the brass mount for the switch (or the
screws that hold the switch to it), it never makes a complete circuit in any
position - only when each needle is on each connector, which implies that
the
switch requires its own ground to work right.

So, this is what we did:
We took all three wires and crimped them together to the top tab of the
switch.  we ran a wire to the block from the bottom tab.  When we put it all
back
together and started the car, the ignition advance had disappeared! i
checked
my base timing which was off about 4 degrees and corrected it.  when i
remove
the electrical connector from the advance solenoid, it goes into an advanced
state.

Here is what i need to know now:
1. is what we did ok?  i don't have another car around here to check and see
if this is how it should be. for all i know, the previous owner replaced the
microswitch with a different one, rewired it, who knows what.
2. if this isn't right, won't really work, goes around a different problem
or
whatever, how should it really be wired?  seems to work ok now though.
3. i think my only problem now is setting my CO.  i believe i have a vacuum
leak in the A/C system somewhere because when i switch on the A/C, the car
runs
rougher.  how can i get the CO set while blocking off the vacuum lines up
front, in case they are affecting idle quality?
4. i bought a dwell meter and put one clip on the orange wire for the
diagnostic plug and the other to my battery aux post.  the instructions for
the meter
don't say anything about this use for it, so i have no clue what i am doing
except for info i found in the archives.  anyway, i set it for dwell, 6 cyl.
when i put the green lead from the meter on the battery and the black lead
on
the orange wire (shop manual says this is the lambda readings), it makes the
needle go to around 30 deg and doesn't move.  when i turn the CO screw, i
replace the rubber cap and observe the meter.  after enough tweaking it goes
to
oscillating between 40-45 in a rhythm. however, the car seems to run
somewhat
rough and the exhaust smells rich.  also, when i give it some gas, i hear
low
thumping kind of sounds from the exhaust as it returns to a crappy idle. i
have no
idea how to use this thing or what i am doing. i think i need some real
instructions.  it is actually running worse now that i started playing with
the
mixture screw than it did two days ago.

well this post is really long with a lot of information in it.  i know i
have
been posting a lot lately, but i really want to get this solved before
winter
storage.  where i live, in Fargo, ND, there are no places to take my car and
no one has an exhaust analyzer like this anyway. closest one is 300 miles,
which i am willing to visit but only once i have exhausted all my options.
i'm
pretty much on my own and rely on the DML to get things running ok.

I hope there is someone out there patient enough to help me figure this out!

Thanks,
Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:36:30 -0000
From: "anaheim_21" <anaheim_21_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Brake Calipers

I noticed on Dave Stragand's Prject Vixen site that he had purchased 
new brake calipers from Pep Boys back in '99.  Does anyone know what 
the make / model of these are?  

My calipers need to be re-worked and cleaned but the deal he got at 
Pep Boys seems great.

Thanks
Greg




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:02:52 -0400
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: clutch slave rod travel?

There are different types of slave cylinders.  I've seen ones that push
on the clutch fork and others that push directly on the throwwout
bearing.  In general, I would expect the slave cylinder "rod" to push the
clutch fork about an inch.  This will change with different clutch fork
lengths and different pressure plates.

The stock Delorean master cylinder should be good enough to disengage
just about anyone's clutch; my Delorean master has half the throw than in
stock form, and engages/disengages a porsche slave cylinder/pressure
plate.

What I would be more concerned about is the resistance pressure- how hard
you have to press on the clutch to get it to release.  I found that the
Delorean clutch pedal linkage has very little mechanical advantage.  Hm,
this is an interesting thought for the PRV upgraders like DMCH.  I bet
clutch slip will become a problem when upgrading the engines because I
don't think the Delorean pressure plate pushes very hard on the clutch.

Jim
1537



On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:39:39 -0500 "at88mph" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
writes:
> I was wondering if anyone knows how far out the rod in the slave 
> cylinder
> will travel with the clutch pushed in completely?  (ie 1/2 inch, 1 
> inch, 1
> 1/2 inch etc)  Thinking about it, does the slave cylinder even have 
> a rod or
> does it just push on the clutch fork?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Duke
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 
> address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:25:51 -0700
From: "Jason Rowe" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>
Subject: Re: High Mileage

    If I remember right, wasn't it dmcJoe that has over 500k on his car? 
If that's not a true testament to a cars reliability I don't know what is.

                                  Jason #5903

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:19:24 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: DCS Magazine...looking for suggestions!

Hey Gang,

Looking for ideas on how to improve the DeLorean Car Show magazine.  
Also putting together a "letters" section...submit a comment, and maybe 
you'll get to see your name in print!  Positive, negative, whatever, as 
long as it's constructive, we'll try and include everyone!

If you haven't already subscribed, you can do so at www.deloreancarshow.com

Thanks for your input and support!
Josh Haldeman
Assistant Editor/Parts Car Parts Broker (haha)
VIN 5102
VIN 15964
VIN 5609 (parts car)





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: DCS Magazine...looking for suggestions!

Yeah, I have the same suggestions that I have for every publication:

1. Fold-ins, like on the back of Mad magazines.

2. Popups, not the kind that you see online, but like children's popup
books.

3. Anaglyph 3D, with a pair of red/blue glasses included with the
magazine.

4. Scratch and Sniff, to go along with articles like "this is what a
concours interior smells like" and "your exhaust shouldn't smell like
this".

5. And finally, anything that's glow-in-the-dark is automatically cooler
than things that aren't.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm completely serious about this
list. It's a little uncommon, but isn't that what we're all about?

-Christian


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Josh Haldeman wrote:

> Hey Gang,
>
> Looking for ideas on how to improve the DeLorean Car Show magazine.
> Also putting together a "letters" section...submit a comment, and maybe
> you'll get to see your name in print!  Positive, negative, whatever, as
> long as it's constructive, we'll try and include everyone!
>
> If you haven't already subscribed, you can do so at www.deloreancarshow.com
>
> Thanks for your input and support!
> Josh Haldeman
> Assistant Editor/Parts Car Parts Broker (haha)
> VIN 5102
> VIN 15964
> VIN 5609 (parts car)
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:52:44 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: ratting driver's side power window

List,

My driver's side power window rattles back and forth.  today it became a 
problem when i rolled it down on the interstate which caused turbulence, and when 
i put it back up, it jammed on the inside of the trim around the outer glass.  
i removed my upper door trim (bought one of those fir-tree clip pullers - 
definitely worth the money!) and put the window back on the tracks.  it is still 
really loose and rattley though -

i checked the plastic guides - they aren't cracked and seem to be in good 
shape.  the metal guide rails are pretty stiff too, and by the way they are 
fastened to the door in the shop manual, i think they are ok.  only thing of note 
is that the part 106063 (Seal, Pwr Window, Inner) is almost totally 
disintegrated.  

if i replace this seal, does that provide the cushion that the window needs 
so it won't rattle around, or are there other adjustments possible?  obviously 
it should be replaced either way.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/