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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1733
Date: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:47 AM

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There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Miles Per Gallon and Trip Computer
From: "Nick Kemp" <>

2. Re: Ignition system failure = faulty coil
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

3. Re: Suspension Options
From: Louie Golden <>

4. RE: Miles Per Gallon and Trip Computer
From: "Michael Fischer" <>

5. Re: Suspension Options for the DeLorean
From: "Toby Peterson" <>

6. Re: Suspension Options for the DeLorean
From: "deloreand" <>

7. Re: John H and Martin G's Factory Fresh DeLo's
From: "content22207" <>

8. Newbe here, Canadian cars for sale?

9. Re: what an outrage!!! / Clusters (combo reply)
From: "content22207" <>

10. Rusty Frame Again
From: "IM2WITTY" <>

11. Delorean Information and Assistance
From: Daniel Partridge <>

12. Re: Re: Clusters
From: "Rustproof" <>

13. A/C power drain
From: "thebrave65" <>

14. Dealing with Valeo.
From: "malevy_nj" <>

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:37:23 -0600
From: "Nick Kemp" <>
Subject: RE: Miles Per Gallon and Trip Computer

I've thought about this problem before.  Thoughts:
- If you measure the fuel leaving the fuel tank to the fuel distributor, you
must also measure the fuel returning to the fuel tank from the distributor.
With two fuel flow transducers, I suspect the cumulative error rate leaves a
lot to be desired.  BTW ... my 2001 Chevy trip computer is typically a least
a 1/2 mpg off actual which turns out to be about 5% error.
- You could use 6 fuel flow transducers, one for each injector.  The concern
here is the low flow rate to each injector and resultant error.
- If electrically actuated injectors were used, you could mathematically
determine the flow rate via injector open duration.  Since the D's injectors
are not electrically operated, this won't work.  One could map the fuel flow
to the mass air flow plate position and determine flow from its position.
Again, cumulative error will be the main problem as well as accurately
measuring the plate's position.

Just some thoughts,



Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:02:25 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Ignition system failure = faulty coil

--- In, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I had bought a "new" Accel SuperStock coil. When I opened the box, 
> the paint was a much lighter/worn out shade of yellow than I 
> expected. It had small ding in the bottom and some scratches. I 
> shrugged and put it in. I -should- have gone back to Pep Boys and 
> asked them "What the hell is this?!"

Stay as far away from ANY products that Accel makes! Their products 
are total crap. The wires have cheap shielding, that will easily 
crack in hot conditinos, and their coils are the weakest I've seen. I 
had the EXACT same problem as you, except after I jump started the 
car, it ran fine. And I didn't have a dead battery, the coil output 
is just that weak! And many other gear heads that I've spoken to have 
had the same problem with other makes of cars, where the Accel coils 
are not powerful enough to turn motors over. Accel Coils themselves 
do not seem to like extreme weather conditions, or engines that are 
even slightly out of tune. So to be fair, these can be contributing 
factors, yes. But I would prefer a part that works properly in ANY 

Granted it sounds like you got a used part, which shouldn't have 
happened. So technicly, who knows in what condition it was in. But as 
a rule of thumb, stay away from Accel products. When I comes to 
replacement components of the ignition system, you best bets are 
either OEM, BOSCH, or MSD. And in many cases, some manufacturers 
straight reccomend going to BOSCH anyways.

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:36:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Louie Golden <>
Subject: Re: Suspension Options

I've driven Bill Robertson's car which has cut springs, and I cannot tell a difference good or bad in the cars handling or ride. His car was probably lowered about 1.5" in the front, and his stance is pretty much identical to the PJ Grady lowering springs. 

I don't know what exactly you're after in your suspension swap, whether you just want a lowered stance, better handling, or a combination of both. I've driven cars that have been restored by DMC-Houston and PJ Grady, both outfitted with their suspension upgrade packages- including lowering springs and shocks. Both cars handle pretty much the same. They both have a softer than stock ride, but handle marginally better than stock too. I think either kit is worth the money after driving both. I personally like the stance of Grady's kit the best, because I don't think the rear of the DeLo needs to be lowered. But I've heard Rob has quit selling the shocks because of a price increase. So that may play into your final decision.

Now that I've put in a positive or at least neutral plug for spring cutting, I've got to put in a negative one as well. My car has the "chop and swap" method on it. The ride suffers from it, and the handling much more so. I don't feel confident throwing the car into a fast corner like I did my old DeLo. I LOVE the stance the car has though. It's probably about 3" lower than stock in front, and 1"-2" lower in the rear. It gives the car a really agressive look... but you pay the price for the look. I think the tires may rub while going over a sizeable bump while cornering as well. Just thought I'd share my experiences for those thinking about the chop & swap.

Louie Golden
VIN 5252

Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="" target="_blank">here!</a>


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:47:01 -0700
From: "Michael Fischer" <>
Subject: RE: Miles Per Gallon and Trip Computer

  Hey Doc,

	Sounds like an interesting project,  I'm gonna through my 2cents
into the ring.

	You intend to have this installed right in your D, correct ..
I'd be hesitant to go to a mini-ITX PC .. You'll have a number of issues
with power supply etc.  .. For about the same price as the 7" LCD
monitor, you can probably get a new Jornada (okay, they're called iPaq's

	The Jornada 680 uses the Hitachi SH3 processor and only runs as
133Mhz .. I have a iPaq 3760 which is at 266Mhz and my boss recently
bought a iPaq 1940 at 400Mhz

	That said, I think you could squeeze the required performance
from your Jornada, first RUN , don't walk, RUN, away from any flavor of
VB ... Your getting data from the Dataq via the Serial Port, you need a
lot lower level of access to it to get any level of performance.  Try
eMbedded VC++, you'll always probably want to take a look at your
sampling rate for this.

	Or .. You can combine the two ideas into one ... Ditch the vga
idean .. Hide the miniITX pc in the D and plumb it all correctly to the
Dataq, power etc. etc.  AND get a little BlueTooth receiver/transmitter
for it (and your Jornada), and voila, the PC does all the number
crunching, but transimits, cordlessly, the display data.

	Imagine a convoy of D's with this, open up the BlueTooth access,
and everyone could watch everyone else's stats!

	Sounds like a great project idea, good luck with it!

Michael G. Fischer,Senior Developer 
Tuboscope Pipeline Services
TIPS - Tuboscope Integrated Pipeline Solutions
Calgary, Alberta Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: [] 
Subject: [DML] Miles Per Gallon and Trip Computer

That question was asked my me,   Dave and 6530.  I have ben working on a
driving computer for my Delorean. 


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:32:18 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson" <>
Subject: Re: Suspension Options for the DeLorean

My car, Winged1, happens to have the very first prototype Carrera 
shocks on it.  I had worked with a performance shop in Kent, 
Washington on suspension upgrades (Horton Performance ... since gone 
out of business).  We had approached most of the well known 
manufacturers about making a shock for the DeLorean, but most of them 
didn't want to spend any money on a limited market.  Carrera was 
willing to front the costs, and also carry the part numbers for other 
owners. The shocks are three-way adjustable for both jounce and 
rebound, are chrome plated, and the rear shocks have a threaded 
adjustable spring perch for infinite height adjustment.  The rears 
also have a spherical bearing attachment at the bottom rather than a 
rubber bushing.  I put these on my car in 1991, together with 
custom-made springs, and have been very happy with them until very 
recently.  I have put about 60,000 rather hard miles on them since 
installation.  They started to leak a little, and I recently took them 
off so that I could send them back to Carrera for warranty work (they 
are guaranteed for life).  I will tell you that these shocks are 
somewhat expensive, but several PNDC members have installed them on 
their cars.  I will update the List on the results of sending them in 
for overhaul.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248

--- In, ttanaka504_at_dml_a... wrote:
> If there anyone in the list use Carrera shocks, please tell me how 
> do you think of their shocks. 


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:27:09 -0000
From: "deloreand" <>
Subject: Re: Suspension Options for the DeLorean

Hi Ben 

A other option for springs and suspention cane by found, on my web 
The springs lower the car 3 cm front and rear and are 20 % stronger 
like the oem.
The new suspention is 22 time's adjustabel and the back is also in 
height adjustebel.
You cane look under producten, to see the parts.

Thanks Ed Uding


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:33:56 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: John H and Martin G's Factory Fresh DeLo's

Problem is: if either of those cars met a Cadillac Fleetwood head on
they'd end up looking just like Louie G's much lower cost entry (#10115).

Speaking NOT of which (thank goodness): does anybody have fatality
statistics for DeLo's? Little cars seem to sacrifice themselves but
driver does at least walk away from accident.

Archive search w/ "fatality" and "fatalities" doesn't hit. Search with
"died" hits every mechanical component no longer functioning.

Bill Robertson

>--- In, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:

> This one effectively has Zero miles on it,


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:34:30 EST
Subject: Newbe here, Canadian cars for sale?

Hello list,

       I have been a lurker on this list for a year or two and figured I 
better make a post or two LOL. I have been looking for the right car to buy for 
quite a few years now, I have always had a passion for the Delorean... In fact I 
beleve I share my birthday with vin 500, Jan 21 1981. I am in Canada and 
really would like to find a good project car. I am open to a good running car if 
the price is right but really want a car to work on over the winter months, 
etc. I have always watched ebay, etc but I am a little weary of buying something 
so far away sight un-seen and getting burned. What are the chances of finding 
something like this in Canada? something I can see before I buy?. I have lived 
on the east coast pretty much all my life and have seen 1 delorean and it was 
for sale but the price was way too high for the condition. So the chances of 
finding on locally is pretty much out. If it comes to bringing one from the 
the US I will but I would prefer to stay away from customs and shipping if at 
all possible ( I have been through this once before and it is a pain ). Anyways 
I would really appreciate any help or advice on this.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:53:24 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: what an outrage!!! / Clusters (combo reply)

DeLorean in totally different class than Bricklin. Looks and feels
like a production automobile, not a prototype or a kit car -- factory
instrumentation in particular. Nothing at all like generic gauges
stuck in circular cutouts.

Of course digital vs analog is personal preference. But I think DeLo
design team deserves recognition even from people who opt to change.

Binnacle itself is another story...

Bill Robertson

>--- In, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> You can't really argue with the underdeveloped argument either, the car was only in production for 2 years with no earlier model to base on. Just imagine what the Delorean could have become in a couple of more years! It was already a great car, certainly not like a Bricklin, which was also a very limited
> production with no earlier model to base on.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757 


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:19:26 -0000
From: "IM2WITTY" <>
Subject: Rusty Frame Again

Hi all,

I recently aquired a Delorean frame in good shape.  The frame has 
the usual rusty spots, some rust through and (of course) "epoxy."  I 
will be replacing the frame on my car with this one.  Unfortunately, 
I live in the north and winter will soon be upon us.  Therefore, I 
must wait until springtime to begin the transplant.  I have scoured 
the archives and found many different ideas as to how best "restore 
a Delorean frame.  

I was hoping to find not just the best "idea," but why the "idea is 

Any suggestions?

Please let me know.

Many thanx,




Message: 11
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:11:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Daniel Partridge <>
Subject: Delorean Information and Assistance

Hello all of you addicted to a "D"!
I wanted to let all who didn't watch the episode of Monster Garage before last: 
The Challenge was to transform a Delorean into a hovercraft, needless to say there were a few setbacks. 
Any Delorean owners in Las Vegas? If anyone knows where I can purchase a Delorean, even a little bit of repair needed is fine, and where I can pay by a bi-weekly or monthly thing? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease help, I am desperate for one.
Thanks to anyone responding,

Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:26:28 -0500
From: "Rustproof" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Clusters

I once purchased a 300zx brand new from the dealer with the complete digital
package just so I could get the sound system that was only available with
that particular package. Then I had to purchase the analog gauge set
seperately and installed it myself. The point is...It just isn't a sports
car unless you see that analog swing. IMHO the delorean dash is great just
the way it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the digital dash looks great and
even compliments the cars style and futuristic gull wing doors, but nothing
gets the adrenalin going better than seeing that speedometer needle rise or
that sudden tach spike on the downshift....just my 2 cents.

> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, M. P. Olans wrote:
> >      How can you check your analog gauges without looking away from the
> > road?  You said, "People prefer to be able to tell things like engine
> > speed and vehicle speed to a first approximation without having to look
> > away from the road.  Digital gauges make this pretty difficult."


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:55:32 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <>
Subject: A/C power drain

I recently looked at an '82 model and noticed that when I turned on 
the A/C the power REALLY drained from the car.  I looked at the 
alternator, and at first, I didn't see it until I spotted it mounted 
almost under the car near the starter.

I don't know if it was a Ducey but I do know that I've not seen an 
alternator mounted like that.  I'm guessing that it is a low amp alt 
but I couldn't tell what brand it was.

Could the alternator be the problem?



Message: 14
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:43:02 -0000
From: "malevy_nj" <>
Subject: Dealing with Valeo.

I know a few of you (Darryl?) have dealt with valeo for custom clutch 
setups on conversions.

Could someone send me a contact at Valeo who can help me with this?  
I called the regular 888 number and spoke to someone who put me in 
touch with an engineer.  Gave him my details, and he said he would 
get back to me in a day or so.  that was over 2 weeks ago.



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