From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1740
Date: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:09 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: idle fluctuations
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

2. Re: Brown DeLo Wires
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>

3. Re: Failed emissions!!!
From: "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. headliner swap?
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

5. Disputing the $25,0000 rule
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Alternatives to 197 hp?
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Informal Carolina Club?
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

8. possible fuel pump failure?
From: Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_rocketmail.com>

9. Re: possible fuel pump failure?
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

10. Re: Alternatives to 197 hp?
From: "Me" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

11. Re: possible fuel pump failure?
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

12. RE: Disputing the $25,0000 rule
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>

13. Re: Re: idle fluctuations
From: tonilfhs98_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Alternatives to 197 hp?
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>

15. Re: Switched DeLo Grounds
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

16. Re: Disputing the $25,0000 rule
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

17. Re: :list of missing parts: Re: Parts missing/removed from my car at Jag Shop
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_comcast.net>

18. Re: Failed emissions!!!
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. Re: possible fuel pump failure?
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

20. DeLorean mechanics in East TN
From: "bkp944" <bk_pollard_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. RE: :list of missing parts: Re: Parts missing/removed from my car at Jag Shop
From: "michael townsley" <townfour_at_dml_mindspring.com>

22. Re: possible fuel pump failure?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

23. Re: Re: Failed emissions!!!
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

24. Dealer Side Stripes
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>

25. Re: Informal Carolina Club?
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:58:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: Re: idle fluctuations

Louie,

The butterfly valves in the throttle body may be sticking. Remove the 4
bolts that hold the horns (W shaped pipe at the back of the intake
manifold) in place and remove the horns. You can now see the butterfly
valves in the center of the engine. Use some carb cleaner on it and
re-assemble.

-Christian

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Louie Golden wrote:

> What do I do if my throttle arm isn't returning all the way? The spring is already on the second setting. I tried lubing the linkage... still the throttle will stick at about 1100-1400 rpm's after the car has been driven. I can revv the engine and it will get enough momentum to make the throttle arm return all the way. What should I do? Is a new throttle spool spring an option? Obviously I need more tension.
>
> Louie Golden
> VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC
>
> --- "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:
> A couple of quick things to check:
> a vacuum hose may have fallen off or developed a leak
> The plug for the mixture screw is missing
> bad ignition wires
> sticking throttle cable not allowing the idle micro to "set"
> Dirty, fouled spark plug
> leaking cold start valve
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:48:15 -0000
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Brown DeLo Wires

--- In dmcnews, Bill Robertson wrote:

> Note most circuits that are switched on the hot side
> in domestic cars are switched on the ground in DeLo.

You've said this for SO many times...
WHICH circuits do you mean???

I've currently been working on installing a Digital Dashboard
in my Nissan 100NX, so I've been researching its electrics
thouroughly for the past weeks and one thing I noticed is
how much circuits on that car are switched grounds too.

Then again, I don't think you'd see a little Japanese car 
as  "domestic". Would my previous Ford Escort count as 
domestic? It had a LOT of similar wiring to my Nissan;
I know, because I DO have wiring diagrams for that too...

Please explain,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

DMC-12 "Dagger" since Sep. 2000
100NX "Saphire" since Nov. 2002
------------------------------
BTW, for those interested in the Dash, it looks like this:
<http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/331000-331999/
331578_12_full.jpg>




________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:10:06 -0000
From: "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emissions!!!

My car is still failing emissions! However it is definately better 
than before. CO is in control, and HC failed by 0.2!! I dialed in the 
CO as best as I can get it with my dwell meter, its hovering right at 
30, oscillating between 28~32. With my CO dialed in my car idles 
rougher, and is even worse during warm-up, which is why I enrichened 
it in the first place. 

Here some things I have found: the dwell meter reading drops 
considerably when the cooling fans activate. The engine oscillation 
doesnt change, I am sure it just has something to do with voltage 
drops or something. 

Also when the cooling fans activate there is a whining sound from the 
engine somewhere, almost sounds like a vacuum leak, but only when the 
fans are on! 

And finally a question about emissions: Is NOx inversely proportional 
to the HC and CO. It seems that as I decrease CO and HC, the NOx is 
higher, and vice versa. 

Thanks everyone! adam

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Thanks Andy and Harold. I think you are right that I may not have 
> adjusted the mixture how I thought I did. I am going to do what 
Andy 
> said and get me a dwell meter!
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> Adam Price
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 10/21/2003 7:33:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> acprice1_at_dml_h... writes:
> > 
> > > My car failed emissions for THC and CO. It passed for NOx.  
> > > 
> >> 
> > Now that i finally understand the dwell meter use, let me try to 
> help you.
> ..> good luck - it took me 3 years and i'm only now getting my idle 
> straightened out the way it should be.  but it's worth it to know 
> everything is working AOK.
> > 
> > Andy




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:30:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: headliner swap?

I just posted this to the ads section of the DMC News site, but figured I'd go ahead and post it to the list as well. My new DeLo came with black headliners from PJ Grady and fiberglass backer boards. My car is a grey interior, so I don't like the look. If anyone wants to do an even trade for grey or dark grey headliners, let me know. I can supply detailed digital photos if needed, and am willing to trade down with someone who has their original backer boards still in place, if the headliners are nice enough.

The car also has some very nicely preserved ORIGINAL (not repro) black floormats. I'd love to have a pair of grey original/repro floormats... anyone who would be interested in a trade let me know. Thanks!

Louie Golden
Charlotte, NC VIN 5252

_____________________________________________________________
Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:34:32 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Disputing the $25,0000 rule

Ive been meaning to post this for awhile now. Ive been looking for 
the "right" car for something like 3 years of actual active 
searching. I finally bought my car 3 months ago, its an August 81 
with a black interior, gas flap, grooves and a 5 speed with 89 miles 
and the original NCT's. I went through hell to get it, and it almost 
didnt happen. Anyway, my point....the seller was asking $32,000. I 
finally after much pleading bought the car for $25,000. I had it 
trailered to PJ Grady's (I live in NY) were i spent close to $5,000 
it making the car utterly flawless.All the updates, recalls, 
Zillas,lowered the suspension, tuneup, belts, wires, hoses 
etc...When i brought the car there he said it was very close to 
being concours worthy, after it left his shop Rob said it was 
definitely a contender and as close to a 10 as he has seen. He also 
said that I paid a fair price for the car(the car belonged to an old 
man who bought it for his grandson as an investment towards his 
education,he passed away and his daughter needed the $$$ but was 
reluctant to giveaway her fathers prized possesion). Which brings me 
to the $25,000 rule...I find it hard to believe that a person would 
be likely to give away a car theyve been caring for, for the last 
20+++ years and all these cars do need some TLC especially after 
being "mothballed" for 2 decades, so how is the $25,000 rule 
(guideline) still accurate?? BTW, I really shopped around and am 
very mechanically inclined and knowledgeble and ive seen many 
$15,000 cars, in comparison to mine and other concours cars they are 
lightyears apart. Are we to assume that the values a rising? because 
I had a wicked car to start with and still spent real money.




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:46:34 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternatives to 197 hp?

I've been looking for another alternative to the PRV and found some 
Canadian speedshops that work on the PRV, more importantly there is 
a shop in Germany that stocks Alpine 310 engines and has the mods 
necessary to create full-blown a610 Delorean supercars....just 
thought i'd try to contribute to the group. the shop is called Simon-
auto...if i can figure out how to post the link I will. Ahh the 
possibilities...i'd love to toss this particular Viper a beating, 
and still have paid less and done it with the "beautiful relic" he's 
dubbed my car.




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:40:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Informal Carolina Club?

Hey Group!

I'm fielding interest in something I've been thinking about for a while now. It seems the Carolinas have a good number of DeLoreans in them, and it'd be neat if we had a better network between us all. Is there any interest in forming a VERY informal Carolina club? Basically it'd just be nice to have everyone's names and emails gathered together. We could also do a few informal get togethers a year. Nothing structured, nothing fancy... just a group of us DeLo geeks getting together and BS-ing. I've also been wanting to make a website now for years, so this would give me a perfect excuse. Everyone in the area please let me know what you think.

Louie Golden
Charlotte, NC VIN 5252

_____________________________________________________________
Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:44:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_rocketmail.com>
Subject: possible fuel pump failure?

Whilst driving home from work this evening my car
started to make a very load buzzing/humming sound that
started out quietly and got louder and louder till i
could easily hear it over the radio.I have since found
that the fuel pump is buzzing its little head off.The
reason I suspect the fuel pump is gone is because when
I was backing into my drive way the car stalled.It
started again no problem but then died again.It did
this several times again before i got it in the garage
and the pump was still buzzing loudly.
Do these symptoms sound like a fuel pump failure or
something else?
Thanks
Andrew
VIN 2883
Sydney,Aus.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree



________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:06:56 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: possible fuel pump failure?

Put some gas in the car.  When the tank gets low, the fuel 
pump on some cars resonates in the open space inside the 
tank.

--
Mike

> Whilst driving home from work this evening my car
> started to make a very load buzzing/humming sound that
> started out quietly and got louder and louder till i
> could easily hear it over the radio.I have since found
> that the fuel pump is buzzing its little head off.The
> reason I suspect the fuel pump is gone is because when
> I was backing into my drive way the car stalled.It
> started again no problem but then died again.It did
> this several times again before i got it in the garage
> and the pump was still buzzing loudly.
> Do these symptoms sound like a fuel pump failure or
> something else?
> Thanks
> Andrew
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Aus.
> 



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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:24:39 -0600
From: "Me" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Alternatives to 197 hp?

It won't matter if you could get 1000 rwhp out of a PRV.  Unless you swap
out the tranny, you will be throwing parts of the stock tranny left and
right.   There are alot of shops that can build up a PRV, however they are
EXTREMELY expensive and I'm not to sure of the reliability.  I don't know of
anyone that has rebuilt the stock tranny to hold over 300hp so even if you
pay $$$$ to have the engine built, it wouldn't do ya much good.    If you
wana give that Viper a beating, I think you might wana look at a Z06
instead. ;)


----- Original Message -----
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:46 PM
Subject: [DML] Alternatives to 197 hp?


>. Ahh the
> possibilities...i'd love to toss this particular Viper a beating,
> and still have paid less and done it with the "beautiful relic" he's
> dubbed my car.




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:04:24 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: possible fuel pump failure?

See message #30469.

When my system was stopped up accumulator moaned/hummed very loudly.
Very disturbing noise under right elbow. 

Remove and inspect EVERYTHING in fuel tank. Really only takes a few
minutes. Some of the best money you can spend on car is in the tank.
Highly recommend John Hervey's simplified baffle if factory
configuration, or connecting hose, is DOA.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> Whilst driving home from work this evening my car
> started to make a very load buzzing/humming sound that
> started out quietly and got louder and louder till i
> could easily hear it over the radio.I have since found
> that the fuel pump is buzzing its little head off.The
> reason I suspect the fuel pump is gone is because when
> I was backing into my drive way the car stalled.It
> started again no problem but then died again.It did
> this several times again before i got it in the garage
> and the pump was still buzzing loudly.
> Do these symptoms sound like a fuel pump failure or
> something else?
> Thanks
> Andrew
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Aus.
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:55:24 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: Disputing the $25,0000 rule

Your car may have been Concours worthy when you bought it.

But, since you modified it, it now is just a clean low mileage DeLorean.



-----Original Message-----
From: spaceace3113 [mailto:spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:35 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Disputing the $25,0000 rule


Ive been meaning to post this for awhile now. Ive been looking for 
the "right" car for something like 3 years of actual active 
searching. I finally bought my car 3 months ago, its an August 81 
with a black interior, gas flap, grooves and a 5 speed with 89 miles 
and the original NCT's. I went through hell to get it, and it almost 
didnt happen. Anyway, my point....the seller was asking $32,000. I 
finally after much pleading bought the car for $25,000. I had it 
trailered to PJ Grady's (I live in NY) were i spent close to $5,000 
it making the car utterly flawless.All the updates, recalls, 
Zillas,lowered the suspension, tuneup, belts, wires, hoses 
etc...When i brought the car there he said it was very close to 
being concours worthy, after it left his shop Rob said it was 
definitely a contender and as close to a 10 as he has seen. 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:43:33 EST
From: tonilfhs98_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: idle fluctuations

I had the similar problem some time ago and Dave Swingle help me locate the 
problem (Thanks Dave).  It was the ECU - the big one behind the driver's seat.  
Dave swaped in his good working one and the problem disappeared.  I replaced 
mine with a rebuilt unit from Grady.  If you can find someone with a good ECU, 
swap it in and see if that's the problem.
Bill K


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:17:48 -0000
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Alternatives to 197 hp?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I've been looking for another alternative to the PRV and found some 
> Canadian speedshops that work on the PRV, more importantly there is 
> a shop in Germany that stocks Alpine 310 engines and has the mods 
> necessary to create full-blown a610 Delorean supercars....just 
> thought i'd try to contribute to the group. the shop is called Simon-
> auto...if i can figure out how to post the link I will. Ahh the 
> possibilities...i'd love to toss this particular Viper a beating, 
> and still have paid less and done it with the "beautiful relic" he's 
> dubbed my car.


What are the names of the Canadian speedshops you found?  I live in
Canada (Ontario), and would like to check them out.  Thanks.

Richard
5853




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:41:24 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Switched DeLo Grounds

Courtesy lights, courtesy light timer, door lights, hood/engine
compartment lights, fuel pump (inertia switch), parking brake
indicator, just to name a FEW.

DeLo's American contemporaries were switching 12v side. 

Definitely wouldn't consider turn of decade Japanese import a
"domestic car". Has been so much cross pollination since then don't
know how to classify current manufactures. I lost interest in
automobile industry early 1980's.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jan van de Wouw" <delorean_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews, Bill Robertson wrote:
> 
> > Note most circuits that are switched on the hot side
> > in domestic cars are switched on the ground in DeLo.
> 
> You've said this for SO many times...
> WHICH circuits do you mean???
> 
> I've currently been working on installing a Digital Dashboard
> in my Nissan 100NX, so I've been researching its electrics
> thouroughly for the past weeks and one thing I noticed is
> how much circuits on that car are switched grounds too.
> 
> Then again, I don't think you'd see a little Japanese car 
> as  "domestic". Would my previous Ford Escort count as 
> domestic? It had a LOT of similar wiring to my Nissan;
> I know, because I DO have wiring diagrams for that too...
> 
> Please explain,
> 
> JAN van de Wouw
> Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
> 
> DMC-12 "Dagger" since Sep. 2000
> 100NX "Saphire" since Nov. 2002
> ------------------------------
> BTW, for those interested in the Dash, it looks like this:
> <http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/331000-331999/
> 331578_12_full.jpg>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:29:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Disputing the $25,0000 rule

I would argue your car is an exception. There just aren't 90 mile cars littering the market. There are however lots of $15k-$20k cars out there with around 30k miles, many/most of which need sizeable amounts of work done. I think the old Price of Car + Repairs = $20k is about to become obsolete, if it hasn't already. I looked at a variety of cars while shopping for VIN 10115's replacement. The market HAS changed in the 2 years since I bought mine. You pay more for less. I'd say on average asking prices have gone up about $3k or so on the cars in the last couple of years. Sometimes much more. I ended up buying my new VIN 5252 for $17.5k, and to make it "perfect" would probably require about $5k worth of tidying up on the undercarriage, and other odds and ends. So you can avoid spending $25k to have a top rate car. You just have to be a really smart shopper, look around, and know what the hell you're looking at/for. I agree though, it is become increasingly difficult to own these cars on a budget. 

On the other hand I've known quite a few people who bought their cars for under $10k, and have only spent a few thousand on them. I suppose when it comes down to it ownership is totally subjective. To say you have to invest $25k+ to own a DeLorean "properly" is pretty pompous (this is directed at no one... just the notion). Some desire concours perfect bullet proof cars, while others just want a fun car they can tinker with while on a budget. I guess it comes down to you only have to invest $25k+ if you *WANT TO*.

Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC

_____________________________________________________________
Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:33:58 -0500
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: :list of missing parts: Re: Parts missing/removed from my car at Jag Shop

You should be nominated for sainthood! 2 1/2 years? Are you kidding?  Seems
to me he was using your D as his personal parts car. If what you are saying
about this shop is true, I'd be looking to get his head on a stick. His
Florida Better Business Bureau report says he has ignored numerous inquiries
to customer complaints. Forget about slander and libel suits from this guy.
They're idle threats.(not to mention very expensive to bring to court) The
last place the Jag Shop wants to be is in court. Trust me on this.  Stop
addressing the matter in a public forum like the DML and get some proper
legal advice from competent counsel. I'm sure the owner of the Jag Shop
reads the DML (or at least he knows someone that does) and you are providing
him with the valuable information he will use against you. Remember the two
most important rules: Rule number one: Knowledge is Power.... The details
you provide on the DML will allow him to carefully formulate a defense
against you regardless of the truth. It's his word against yours.
Unfortunately you're allowing him the advantage of hearing your side first
so he can create a believable response in court. Rule number two: The Best
Word is the One Left Unsaid.... Never, EVER let the other guy know what your
thinking or planning. If you are going to take action against this guy, stop
talking about it and do it.  If your information is accurate, this man has
done you a serious injustice and you should pursue the matter through legal
channels.  Share the information with the DML only after the matter has been
adjudicated in a court of law. Believe what I am saying. I have been through
this before.  Good luck.
Rustproof
Vin 1559
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Siegel" <siegel_at_dml_technologist.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:24 PM
Subject: [DML] :list of missing parts: Re: Parts missing/removed from my car
at Jag Shop


> The car was in perfect mechanical condition when it was taken to the
Jagshop.  The car was there for body work.  I have photographs and video
footage of the car at the accident scene and after.  Lets not forget the
people who looked over the car at the repair facility and body shop.  These
people know what the condition was as the car was towed to the Jagshop from
the body shop.  The ONLY reason it went to the Jagshop was the promise of a
lower repair cost becasue Dave had spare cars to take body parts from.
>
> It took two and a half years and the Jagshop did not do any work to the
car.  I decided to pick it up and take it to another place.  It was raining
when I picked it up so I did not inspect the car till I arrived at the shop.
I was shocked at what was missing.  I called David at the Jagshop and he was
as nice and friendly as always.  Dave told me he must have forgotten to give
me the parts and he had them in a storage truck.  I said fine.  He told me
the car was not worth fixing and I should use it as a parts car.  ( I cant
even do that as someone took all the parts out of the car! )  I said I would
still rather fix it.  I spent the last 7 months attempting to get the parts
till David finally told me he had thrown away all the parts and just said
tuff luck.  He said he will not give me a thing and he will charge me 4
years of storage (car was there 2.5 years) if I tried anything and hung up
on me.  I have not been able to get in contact with him and when I do he
just hangs up
>  .
>
> I really wanted to keep this private and handle this in a good way.  I do
not want to damage his business.  This is after all how he lives.  But I
cannot allow this to slide by.  This has and may happen to other people.
Just take a look at what is missing from the car:
>
>
> PARTS MISSING:
>
> horn
> power window switch
> all relays and computers
> everything from the electrical bay
> transmission computer
> small piece of plastic for key lock in door
> hinge from engine cover
> alternator and bracket
> tool set
> spare tire
> luggage rack
> everything from trunk
> fuel pump and everything for it
> both window switches
> entire brake system
> back bracket/cover for torsion bar
> drivers side torsion bar
> glove box
> left and right turn signal lights from both sides of the front
> molding from driver fender (fender stripped clean??)
> passenger door handle
> ac control switch
> entire assembly for cooling fan and radiator
> radiator (I know it was damaged, but want it still)
> cooling fans
>
> The driver side mirror was damaged at the Jagshop
>
> plus what ever I may have missed....
> --
> __________________________________________________________
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>





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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:44:21 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Failed emissions!!!

You can't always make a car pass emissions testing by making
adjustments. Sometimes you have to replace worn parts. How old are the
spark plugs and wires? Worn plugs and bad wires will cause high HC. A
bad catalytic converter can also do it. If the timming is off it can
do it. Just getting the Lambda to work isn't always going to get you
what you need. Even a dirty air filter can keep your HC up. You will
hear a louder whine from the alternator as it makes more electric when
the cooling fans kick in. You are figureing out you never get
something for nothing, as you improve one emission you just balance it
off to another. CO is hard to control, HC is the easiest, NOx is
largely affected by the combustion chamber temperatures and pressure
so you can't change it all that much but it does go up as the HC goes
down, you are burning more HC so the combustion chamber temps and
pressure go up causing the NOx to increase.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> My car is still failing emissions! However it is definately better 
> than before. CO is in control, and HC failed by 0.2!! I dialed in the 
> CO as best as I can get it with my dwell meter, its hovering right at 
> 30, oscillating between 28~32. With my CO dialed in my car idles 
> rougher, and is even worse during warm-up, which is why I enrichened 
> 




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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:26:30 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: possible fuel pump failure?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> Whilst driving home from work this evening my car
> started to make a very load buzzing/humming sound that
> started out quietly and got louder and louder till i
> could easily hear it over the radio.I have since found
> that the fuel pump is buzzing its little head off.The
> reason I suspect the fuel pump is gone is because when
> I was backing into my drive way the car stalled.It
> started again no problem but then died again.It did
> this several times again before i got it in the garage
> and the pump was still buzzing loudly.
> Do these symptoms sound like a fuel pump failure or
> something else?
> Thanks
> Andrew
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Aus.

It *could* be a sign of a failing fuel pump. However, it may be a 
collapsed fuel pick-up hose.

Two questions:
1. How much fuel was in the tank at the time all this occured?
2. How hot is it outside?

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:06:11 -0000
From: "bkp944" <bk_pollard_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: DeLorean mechanics in East TN

Hello Group,

My name is Brian Pollard. I live in Knoxville, TN.

I have become very interested in becoming a DeLorean owner over the 
past few months and have been reading everything I can get my hands 
on to better educate myself on what to look for in these cars 
(subscribing to this list seems to be the best idea so far!).

If everything falls in place for me financially, I should be ready 
to buy this spring. I hope to be able to participate in the Pigeon 
Forge meeting next summer.

My specific question is about recommended repair shops in the East 
Tennessee area (I believe John Weaver lives in Knoxville - correct?).

I can do, and as a matter of fact enjoy doing, most minor repair 
work to my cars (My last "fun" car was a Porsche 944, the DeLo would 
be my next). However, when I comes to major work such as clutch 
replacement, or when I get completely stumped on a problem, it would 
be nice to go to someone locally to help me out.

Thanks in advance for your responses. This seems to be a great group.

Brian




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:38:55 -0500
From: "michael townsley" <townfour_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: :list of missing parts: Re: Parts missing/removed from my car at Jag Shop

Did you file a police report regarding the missing parts? Or, file an
insurance claim (either via comprehensive auto coverage or a home owner's
personal property loss coverage)?

Michael W. Townsley
 

[very long quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:48:38 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: possible fuel pump failure?

Before you condemn the pump make sure the pick-up hose isn't
collapsing or kinked or has a hole in it allowing air to get in. If it
is soft either put a spring inside it or replace it. If the pump is
still noisy then it probably is wearing out.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> Whilst driving home from work this evening my car
> started to make a very load buzzing/humming sound that
> started out quietly and got louder and louder till i
> could easily hear it over the radio.I have since found
> that the fuel pump is buzzing its little head off.The
> reason I suspect the fuel pump is gone is because when
> I was backing into my drive way the car stalled.It
> started again no problem but then died again.It did
> this several times again before i got it in the garage
> and the pump was still buzzing loudly.
> Do these symptoms sound like a fuel pump failure or
> something else?
> Thanks
> Andrew
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Aus.
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree




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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:42:46 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Failed emissions!!!

In a message dated 11/5/03 6:10:14 AM Central Standard Time, 
acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:

> Here some things I have found: the dwell meter reading drops 
> considerably when the cooling fans activate. The engine oscillation 
> doesnt change, I am sure it just has something to do with voltage 
> drops or something. 

While i'm not sure what that means, i do know that the dwell reading should 
NOT drop when the fans come on.  at least mine don't and i don't have fanzilla 
yet (next spring).

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:13:56 -0000
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Dealer Side Stripes

Please, Please, PLEASE!!

Anyone who can find a set of these, reproduction or otherwise, 
contact me. Or if you know of someone/someplace with the skills to 
custom make a set of vinyl stripes like them.

I very much like the wide accent stripes, and want a set on my car, 
and would like to put them on while my fascias are off. BUT Houston 
never ended-up (re)producing them, and the place I bought my first 
reproduction set is no more. (It was called The Last Place You 
Looked.com).

So if you have any leads on a set of wide accents dealer side stripes 
part #A2000010 please contact me. deloreandmcxii (at) excite.com

Thanks you, thank you, THANK YOU!!

James LaLonde 004009




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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:51:12 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Informal Carolina Club?

Didn't you see Monster Garage -- we're not "geeks", we're "dorks".

Count me in.

Remember to cast net wide for any gatherings. Mid Atlantic pulls from
several states away even without a tech session.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Hey Group!
> 
> I'm fielding interest in something I've been thinking about for a
while now. It seems the Carolinas have a good number of DeLoreans in
them, and it'd be neat if we had a better network between us all. Is
there any interest in forming a VERY informal Carolina club? Basically
it'd just be nice to have everyone's names and emails gathered
together. We could also do a few informal get togethers a year.
Nothing structured, nothing fancy... just a group of us DeLo geeks
getting together and BS-ing. I've also been wanting to make a website
now for years, so this would give me a perfect excuse. Everyone in the
area please let me know what you think.
> 
> Louie Golden
> Charlotte, NC VIN 5252
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel
Illusion" now! Details <a
href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>




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