From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1741
Date: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:26 AM

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There are 9 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: New GTO Article
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

2. Re: Disputing the $25,0000 rule
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: Disputing the $25,0000 rule
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

4. Re: Re: Switched DeLo Grounds
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

5. Re: Failed emissions!!!
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

6. Re: Dealer Side Stripes
From: "Tom" <tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net>

7. Re: Failed emissions!!!
From: "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. Re: DeLorean mechanics in East TN
From: DeLorean5000_at_dml_comcast.net

9. Re: Re: Switched DeLo Grounds
From: Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:08:48 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: New GTO Article

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jake" <jkampho_at_dml_s...> wrote:
<SNIP> 
> Anybody planning on putting a new GTO next to the DeLorean in the
> arage??  --Looks pretty good at $33,000....

In comparison to the RX-8 in output of the motor, the higher-end 
Mustangs in price, and the Mercury Marauder in looks, the New GTO 
looks to be a better buy all around, and would be my first choice 
when it comes to all other sports cars on the market. And I'm not a 
GM person.

And even though JZD, and GM parted ways a long time ago, the New GTO 
still has allot of DeLorean in it, and I don't mean in just the 
muscle car way. In the past, I saw an interview with JZD (I think it 
was on deloreantime.com), in which he was asked what GM's strategy 
should be. And he responded that rather than simply badge engineering 
only domestic cars (ie: F & J body cars), they should look to import 
cars from their overseas marques, and introduce them to the US 
as "new" cars. So I guess that Bob Lutz practicly followed that 
advice to a "T" when he went down under to Holden. ;-)

Will I buy one? Not new, no. If I did, it would probably just sit in 
a carport somewhere, because I'd still be driving my D everywhere. It 
really is that fun to drive. I actually just plan to buy a GTO used 
in a few years, and restore it. New is nice, but restored is fun!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:25:57 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Disputing the $25,0000 rule

In a message dated 11/5/03 6:09:33 AM Central Standard Time, 
spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

> Are we to assume that the values a rising? because 
> I had a wicked car to start with and still spent real money.


I would definitely agree with you.
in my case, i paid about $15,000 for mine and i have put probably the same 
amount into it to get it 'just right' and i still have a little ways to go.  
when i bought mine, it was totally driveable with 41K miles, all updates, 9.5/10 
on exterior and 9/10 interior.  the brakes were rebuilt with new tires, 
fascias painted, as well as quite a few other misc things within the last year 
before i got it.  

however.......
i wound up rebuilding the entire fuel system by replacing pretty much every 
part except the distributor, doing a complete 30K mile service, new locks, 
window regulators, seat covers, total clutch and transmission service (all clutch 
and hydraulic parts replaced, tranny opened and cleaned), stainless brake 
lines and new master cylinder, numerous engine control switches, total cooling 
system overhaul with pump master kit, new fans, new radiator, hoses, etc..... the 
list goes on with all the little stuff.

the main thing that gets me is that when i find a problem with a part of a 
system, i wind up doing the whole works even if it doesn't need it, because i 
know that it will eventually and i'd rather get it done at the same time. for 
instance, i had one fan burned out and i was replacing my water hoses anyway so 
i did the whole thing while i was at it.  same with clutch.  i only needed a 
new roll pin in the tranny and a new clutchline (went to stainless), but i 
decided i might as well do EVERYTHING.  it runs you a lot more money but in the 
end it is worth it to know you took care of everything at once.  

i suppose i would be below $25,000 if i only replaced parts that needed to be 
replaced, but i'd also have a car that isn't so reliable and i might fear 
going from ND to TN next spring..... and i wouldn't take home so many trophies 
from shows!

to do it the way i do it, i would say $35,000 is more realistic.  

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:07:08 -0600
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Disputing the $25,0000 rule

I would think lowering the suspension and installing Zilla products makes it a Non
Concourse car because none of these upgrades are Delorean original. You just made a show
car out of a  Concourse car.

Mark
6683

Scott Mueller wrote:

> Your car may have been Concours worthy when you bought it.
>
> But, since you modified it, it now is just a clean low mileage DeLorean.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spaceace3113 [mailto:spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:35 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Disputing the $25,0000 rule
>
> Ive been meaning to post this for awhile now. Ive been looking for
> the "right" car for something like 3 years of actual active
> searching. I finally bought my car 3 months ago, its an August 81
> with a black interior, gas flap, grooves and a 5 speed with 89 miles
> and the original NCT's. I went through hell to get it, and it almost
> didnt happen. Anyway, my point....the seller was asking $32,000. I
> finally after much pleading bought the car for $25,000. I had it
> trailered to PJ Grady's (I live in NY) were i spent close to $5,000
> it making the car utterly flawless.All the updates, recalls,
> Zillas,lowered the suspension, tuneup, belts, wires, hoses
> etc...When i brought the car there he said it was very close to
> being concours worthy, after it left his shop Rob said it was
> definitely a contender and as close to a 10 as he has seen.




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:26:37 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Switched DeLo Grounds

The reason power is switched on American cars is because
there are gounds everywhere - the cars are steel bodied.
You switch power to simplify the wiring harness.

Grounds are switched on the DeLorean (and most other 
non-steel vehicles) in order to simplify and cost-reduce
the wiring harness.

--
Mike

> Courtesy lights, courtesy light timer, door lights, hood/engine
> compartment lights, fuel pump (inertia switch), parking brake
> indicator, just to name a FEW.
> 
> DeLo's American contemporaries were switching 12v side. 
> 
> Definitely wouldn't consider turn of decade Japanese import a
> "domestic car". Has been so much cross pollination since then don't
> know how to classify current manufactures. I lost interest in
> automobile industry early 1980's.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jan van de Wouw" <delorean_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > --- In dmcnews, Bill Robertson wrote:
> > 
> > > Note most circuits that are switched on the hot side
> > > in domestic cars are switched on the ground in DeLo.
> > 
> > You've said this for SO many times...
> > WHICH circuits do you mean???
> > 
> > I've currently been working on installing a Digital Dashboard
> > in my Nissan 100NX, so I've been researching its electrics
> > thouroughly for the past weeks and one thing I noticed is

> > how much circuits on that car are switched grounds too.
> > 
> > Then again, I don't think you'd see a little Japanese car 
> > as  "domestic". Would my previous Ford Escort count as 
> > domestic? It had a LOT of similar wiring to my Nissan;
> > I know, because I DO have wiring diagrams for that too...
> > 
> > Please explain,
> > 
> > JAN van de Wouw
> > Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> > Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
> > 
> > DMC-12 "Dagger" since Sep. 2000
> > 100NX "Saphire" since Nov. 2002
> > ------------------------------
> > BTW, for those interested in the Dash, it looks like this:
> > <http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/331000-331999/
> > 331578_12_full.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:26:14 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emissions!!!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> You can't always make a car pass emissions testing by making
> adjustments. Sometimes you have to replace worn parts.

Found the same thing out myself. But to add to it, sometimes, all you 
need to do is replace worn parts, rather than tuning. I failed 
emissions horribly last spring. Turned out to be a clogged injector. 
Replaced, and passed smog with no problem after that. Didn't need to 
tune a single thing, just replaced my injectors.

Before you go off tuning, and fiddling with the CO adjustments, you 
need to first insure that you engine is able to efficiently burn fuel 
it recieves, not if it has the correct air/fuel ratio. While your HC 
may have passed, you didn't say what they were. Check your spray 
pattern on all 6 injectors, and make sure that they are kicking out a 
good spray pattern. One fowled injector can kick HC up into the 
1,000's range on ppm.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:51:06 -0500
From: "Tom" <tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net>
Subject: Re: Dealer Side Stripes

James and everyone interested
I will soon have a reproduction dealer stripes for sale. They are made of
top quality 3M vinyl. The vinyl used is just amazing in quality and
features! It is what they call Black-reflective. That means that the vinyl
looks perfectly black during the day but reflects light like a road sign
when you shine light directly at it.
The kits are being made as we speak, so I should have them available very
soon.
Also, I can have a set made in any other color - regular black or any other.
Email me privatly at tomcio'AT'gtemail.net is interested

Tom Niemczewski
vin 6149 (5 speed - yes!)
tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net
Save the dream, so you can live the dream!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: [DML] Dealer Side Stripes


> Please, Please, PLEASE!!
>
> Anyone who can find a set of these, reproduction or otherwise,
> contact me. Or if you know of someone/someplace with the skills to
> custom make a set of vinyl stripes like them.
>
> I very much like the wide accent stripes, and want a set on my car,
> and would like to put them on while my fascias are off. BUT Houston
> never ended-up (re)producing them, and the place I bought my first
> reproduction set is no more. (It was called The Last Place You
> Looked.com).
>
> So if you have any leads on a set of wide accents dealer side stripes
> part #A2000010 please contact me. deloreandmcxii (at) excite.com
>
> Thanks you, thank you, THANK YOU!!
>
> James LaLonde 004009



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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 00:12:36 -0000
From: "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emissions!!!

I just did a full ignition tune-up about 6 months ago, all stock 
parts except for the plugs which I used bosch platinum+4. The 
catalytic converter was replaced by the previous owner in 1999. The 
air filter appears to be clean.  

Adam


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> You can't always make a car pass emissions testing by making
> adjustments. Sometimes you have to replace worn parts. How old are 
the
> spark plugs and wires? Worn plugs and bad wires will cause high HC. 
A
> bad catalytic converter can also do it. If the timming is off it can
> do it. Just getting the Lambda to work isn't always going to get you
> what you need. Even a dirty air filter can keep your HC up. You will
> hear a louder whine from the alternator as it makes more electric 
when
> the cooling fans kick in. You are figureing out you never get
> something for nothing, as you improve one emission you just balance 
it
> off to another. CO is hard to control, HC is the easiest, NOx is
> largely affected by the combustion chamber temperatures and pressure
> so you can't change it all that much but it does go up as the HC 
goes
> down, you are burning more HC so the combustion chamber temps and
> pressure go up causing the NOx to increase.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > My car is still failing emissions! However it is definately 
better 
> > than before. CO is in control, and HC failed by 0.2!! I dialed in 
the 
> > CO as best as I can get it with my dwell meter, its hovering 
right at 
> > 30, oscillating between 28~32. With my CO dialed in my car idles 
> > rougher, and is even worse during warm-up, which is why I 
enrichened 
> >




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 00:35:21 +0000
From: DeLorean5000_at_dml_comcast.net
Subject: Re: DeLorean mechanics in East TN

Make sure to visit etdoc.com to get more info on knoxville owners and club.  Perhaps there will be a D (or 2) for sale soon in knoxville?  Lots of great owners to talk with and maybe even a place to get your car worked on.  I am sure one of the guys there will contact you.

Regards, 
Darren Decker 
#5000
> Hello Group,
> 
> My name is Brian Pollard. I live in Knoxville, TN.
> 
> I have become very interested in becoming a DeLorean owner over the 
> past few months and have been reading everything I can get my hands 
> on to better educate myself on what to look for in these cars 
> (subscribing to this list seems to be the best idea so far!).
> 
> If everything falls in place for me financially, I should be ready 
> to buy this spring. I hope to be able to participate in the Pigeon 
> Forge meeting next summer.
> 
> My specific question is about recommended repair shops in the East 
> Tennessee area (I believe John Weaver lives in Knoxville - correct?).
> 
> I can do, and as a matter of fact enjoy doing, most minor repair 
> work to my cars (My last "fun" car was a Porsche 944, the DeLo would 
> be my next). However, when I comes to major work such as clutch 
> replacement, or when I get completely stumped on a problem, it would 
> be nice to go to someone locally to help me out.
> 

> Thanks in advance for your responses. This seems to be a great group.
> 
> Brian



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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 02:04:24 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Re: Switched DeLo Grounds

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:41:24 -0000, Bill Robertson wrote:

>>> Note most circuits that are switched on the hot side
>>> in domestic cars are switched on the ground in DeLo.
>> You've said this for SO many times...
>> WHICH circuits do you mean???
> Courtesy lights, courtesy light timer, door lights, hood/engine
> compartment lights, fuel pump (inertia switch), parking brake
> indicator, just to name a FEW.

Sha I name a few other ones? Others that I've found on both my
1987 Ford Escort as my 1992 Nissan 100NX, as well as on a 1979
Toyota Landcruiser and a whole lot more?

Oil-light, Oil-Gauge, Fuel-Gauge, Seatbelt-Light, ABS-Light,
CruiseControl-Light, EGR-Light, Check Engine-Light...

Switching ground isn't that stupid, it's a way of cutting costs;
use ground (car body) instead of yet ANOTHER wire back to the
item that has to be powered.

There's enough wires in a car anyways; just a SIMPLE Dashboard
allready needs over 30 wires to get every indicator and Gauge to work.

Just because you're not USED to something,
doesn't mean it's bad thing.

I'd be inclined to say RTFM, but I know you've got them AND use them...

JAN van de Wouw

Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
--------------------------------




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