From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1749
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:14 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Gullwing Option on New Lotus Elise...Can this work?
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

2. Shaking during braking
From: "Toby Peterson" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

3. Re: eyebrows
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

4. Re: Rear Louver Needed
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Re: MORE 'D' BLUES
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Re: MORE 'D' BLUES
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

7. Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

8. Engine overhauling
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>

9. Re: Auction for Louie's wrecked D
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

10. Re: Auction for Louie's wrecked D
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

11. Re: Neverending Ignition Controversy
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

12. DeLorean Car Show Magazine
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

13. Porsche Boxer H6 engine
From: "minox8x11" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

14. Re: Gullwing Option on New Lotus Elise...Can this work?
From: "Jennifer Tipton" <Jtipton_at_dml_iglou.com>

15. RE: Re: Neverending Ignition Controversy
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

16. Re: Rear Louver Needed
From: jimbo0946_at_dml_aol.com

17. RE: Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

18. Re: Porsche Boxer H6 engine
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

19. Re: Engine overhauling
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: Re: Porsche Boxer H6 engine
From: "Michael Paine" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

21. Re: Engine overhauling
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>

22. Request for feedback
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

23. Stubborn Vehicle
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:31:04 -0500
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: Gullwing Option on New Lotus Elise...Can this work?

I know this is slightly off subject, but I am sure there are DMC owners
who can shed some technical light on the subject.
A friend of mine recently put a deposit on the new Lotus Elise car that
is set to ship to the US in spring of 2004.  While drooling over the
thought of his future car, he started to research hard top options for
the car.  As it turns out, there is a company in britan who is offering
an aftermarket "Gullwing" option for the car.
 
After viewing pictures, I am wondering how this can possibly
work...maybe someone on this board can shed some light on the subject
either by mechanical knowledge or maybe you have seen this design
before.
 
First:
 - Pictures:  http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/
<http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/gallery/solutions/t_bar/pages/soluti
ons_t_bar_011.html>  <http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/> 
 - Write Up: http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/news/index.html
 
Second:  Note that this is not a TRUE gullwing design.  Only the roof
panels are lifted.
 
OK...Here is what is getting me stumped:  Notice how the lift pistons
are positioned in the CENTER of the roof panels?  How could it possibly
close down all the way if the pistons are mounted there?   My guess is
that perhaps the top part (skinnier insert) of the piston is somehow
mounted to the roof panel in a fashon so that it slide to the center of
the T-Panel as it closes.  Even more strange is that this whole setup is
made to be taken off the car when you want so that it can be driven as a
T-Top.  Wouldnt this require some tools to undo all the hardware in a
clean looking fashion?
 
Anyone know or have any ideas exactly how the strut could possibly be in
the middle like that and still function?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:29:37 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Shaking during braking

Elvis - I noticed the little note at the end of your message to Bill ... you might want to check out the rubber bushings that attach the 
front sway bar to the lower control arms on each side.  Pay particular attention to the aft bushings, as they react nearly all braking 
loads in the front suspension.  You may find the rubber cracked and peeling away from the steel sleeves.  This condition can cause 
the front wheels to go into a "toe out" condition during braking, which can set up some interesting shaking and shimmying.

In regards to the entire dialog on coils ... can't we all just get along?  A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> wrote:
 >just my steering is still shaking when braking
> and nobody could tel me yet why ?!?!?!(new rotors installed!!!!!))
> 
> Elvis & 6548





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:16:36 -0600
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: eyebrows

Headlights have nothing to do with this because they warp over the High Beams and who
drives all of the time with High Beams on?

It is just a myth. Maybe we could send it into Mythbusters and have them bust the myth
about "Headlights Making Eyebrows on Deloreans". Mythbusters is on Fridays.

Mark
6683


Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>
> >From what i understand, the headlights make the bumper warm up, and
> permanantly warps the fascia.   It can be repaired by removing the fascia, heating it
> up, and reinforcing the fascia while it is still hot.  I have no experience
> doing this, but that's what i have been told.
>
> i'll find out next summer probably....
>
> Andy




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 03:54:39 +0000
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Louver Needed

Being composed of fiberglass, perhaps a good 'Vette repair shop could 
restore it?       Drive Stainless (& unbroken)     Robert VIN 6924


From: jimbo0946_at_dml_aol.com
Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Rear Louver Needed
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:39:58 -0500

Well I am sad to say that some people just don't have respect for our cars.  
I had mine parked on a side street and some _at_dml_sshole decided to try and walk 
over it.  I came back with a foot print on my front bumper, hood, top, and a 
foot through the rear louver.  That son of a b!tch.  Anyway, I was wondering 
if anyone here has one for sale or knows of where I can find one.

Thanks,
Jim
VIN#15880


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

_________________________________________________________________
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead?  Your old favorites are always 
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! 
http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:18:17 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: MORE 'D' BLUES

As you are probably aware oil in the coolant is "NOT A GOOD THING".
This is commonly caused by overheating the engine and damaging the
head gasket. If you are "lucky" all you have to do is replace ther
head gaskets. If you are less than "lucky" you may have a warped or
cracked cylinder head. You will know when you remove the heads and
examine them and the gaskets.********SPECIAL NOTE******* If you have
an automatic transmission the cooler could go bad and put oil into the
cooling system. If you are not sure if it is motor oil or trans fluid
have the cooler tested.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Lance Haslewood <lanceh_at_dml_z...> wrote:
> Thinking that I now have the DeLorean running well following the fuel 
> distributor issue, I'm faced with yet another problem.  Yesterday I
decided 
> to change the oil and coolant and noticed the odd small particle of 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:00:48 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: MORE 'D' BLUES

Either a head gasket, cylinder bottom seal(s), or warped block/heads.
Usually water flows into oil (under constant pressure). Milky white
foam in the crankcase is traditional indicator. Check for it on
dipstick. Look for steam in exhaust from warm engine. Can also
pressure test coolant system.

If you opt to remove heads yourself note PRV has special technique.
Don't simply lift straight off block -- can disturb cylinders/bottom
seals. You slide head (can't remember if towards engine center or away
from it. Martin?) then move up & off in an arc. Or so my Volvo
literature explains.

Both Rich A and Travis G have done own head work within past year for
first hand info.

Bill Robertson
#5939

> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Lance Haslewood <lanceh_at_dml_z...> wrote:
> Thinking that I now have the DeLorean running well following the fuel 
> distributor issue, I'm faced with yet another problem.  Yesterday I
decided 
> to change the oil and coolant and noticed the odd small particle of
oil in 
> the coolant.  So I changed the oil and filter, flushed the cooling
system 
> and refilled it with a fresh glycol mix.  I also replaced the oil
pressure 
> switch with a new one as the existing switch had been weeping oil
around 
> its seal.   Anyway, I took the car for a short drive and returned
home to 
> bled the system and was surprised to see oil throughout the cooling 
> system.  Not just small particles, but a complete mixture of oil and 
> glycol.  In fact, the glycol was a grey colour and frothing in the
header 
> bottle.  When I released the bleed screw, oil and water mixture went 
> everywhere.  I'm hoping that the problem is just a head gasket and
nothing 
> more serious.  Knowing my current run of bad luck, it will be more
serious.
> 
> Lance H
> Australia




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:47:05 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel

Getting technical now there is a property called "saturation". Simply
stated you can only put so much energy into a coil, any more and it
won't give you anymore output. Using a coil with a higher ratio of
turns in it may give you more output voltage but only up to the
saturation point. That point is reached as the RPM's increase. Think
of it as turning the coil on and off fast. The faster you turn it on
and off the less you will get out of it. So that high performance coil
may give you more voltage at 2,500 rpm but as you get up to 4,000 it
may not have enough oomph left in it. There is a reverse efffect, and
that is as the RPM's increase the combustion pressures increase
requiring higher and higher voltages to jump the gap on the spark
plugs. This is just when that oversaturated coil is not able to keep
up. You really have to think of these things as SYSTEMS. By changing
one part in the secondary ignition system you will not gain much. The
difference you may notice is only because the coil you replaced was 20
+ years old and wasn't doing enough in the first place. You could have
replaced it with a new, stock coil and probably noticed the same
improvement. The problem with that is most people will also change the
spark plugs and wires too (at the same time) and give all the credit
in improved performance to the new, performance coil. This is part of
the logic behind the move on the newest cars to put a coil on each
spark plug. Now the coil only has to fire once for it's own cylinder
so you don't have to turn it on and off so fast and you never get to
the point of oversaturation. You can go to much higher voltages and
not worry about the ignition wires because the coil fits right on the
plug. This is how they can get the motors up into the 6-8000 RPM
range. In these applications they will now use a crankshaft trigger to
keep the timming as accurate as possible and do completely away with
the distributer because at these speeds and voltages it can't keep up
either. You get crossover inside and inductive coupling from the
wires, the spark will actually induce voltages in the other wires
alongside and cause crossfire if the sparks don't jump inside the
distributer cap and rotor. Once you start down this path it just gets
more and more expensive and complicated. The moral here is the stock
system is more than adequate for most of the people driving normaly on
city streets.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> 
> Bill, you'r wrong again ;-)
> I will agree with you in some points, but not in the way you
> try to explain it or think it is working. If you're interested
> I can scan you some pictures of some books I have and that explain
> the ignition system very good. With some simple physical laws
> you will understand why there's never a higher voltage than about





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 05:23:34 -0000
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>
Subject: Engine overhauling

Hi folks

I came across this list while searching for info on rebulding a PRV 
V6 and, noticing that there is a huuuge number of members here, I'm 
hoping someone might be able to help or at least point me in the 
direction of a source of help. 

I'm in the process of a full rebuild on a 2.8litre V6 out of a '86 
Volvo 760. I realise that the car isn't even close to a DeLorean, but 
I gather that the engines are virtually identical. 

I'm at the point of choosing the correct thickness of seals for the 
base of the cylinder sleeves. Seals are available in various 
thicknesses in order to set the correct sleeve protusion height above 
the block. Without seals fitted the top of each sleeve is absolutely 
level with the top of the block. According to the repair manual I own 
the recommended protrusion above the block is 0.16 to 0.23mm (0.0063 
to 0.0091 inch), preferably going for the higher value. The problem 
is that the thickest seal available is listed as "0.130 to 0.165 mm 
(0.0051 to 0.0065 inch)". That's barely thick enough to meet even the 
minimum height requirement. 

So now I'm wondering whether the height is so critical (so long as 
all the sleeves on each bank are equal), or whether its ok to use two 
thinner seals on each sleeve to achieve the correct dimension (the 
manual states that this is a no-no). Volvo dealers have been no help 
at all (surprise, surprise) and I haven't yet been able to find 
anyone else who has knowledge of these engines. Anybody come across 
this situation before? Any and all advice will be gratefully 
received. Help!

Cheers

Steve Abbott
(Tasmania, Australia)




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:10:19 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Auction for Louie's wrecked D

Since you knew #10115, wouldn't you have felt little bit like a cannibal? 

Did rear fascia go with the car? Was my old one on loan for SEDOC trip
that poor #10115 never made. Really wasn't that great before Cadillac
launched several hundred feet down pavement. Bet it's REALLY not great
now. Would've been nice to keep stainless letters for spares however.
Hopefully adhesive on my new set hangs tight...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Palatinus, Joe" <jopalatinus_at_dml_d...>
wrote:
> 
> Joe P.
> jopalatinus_at_dml_d...
> 
> 
> Hello List, I just finished one hellofa day, I went to become a Coparts
> buyer so that I could bid on the wrecked Delorean (Louie G's old D) in
> China Grove NC.  I went and paid my 200 dollars for the right to bid,
> but they neglected to file all of my information before the auction, so
> when I came home to try to bid on the delorean (online) it didn't work.
> I called them before the car came up, but it was too late to get the
> paper work done, and that wrecked Delorean fell thorough my hands and
> was sold for $2950 to some lucky bidder.  I will be getting my $200
> back, but no parts car for me. Did anyone on the list get it? That would
> at least make me feel somewhat satisfied.  Anyway, If the bidder is
> online let me know if you might like to sell the hood and front fascia,
> I might be interested!
> 
> Joe P.
> VIN 17167 6808




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:28:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Auction for Louie's wrecked D

The car went to a body shop called, "Get It Together" in China Grove, NC. Their phone number is 704-856-0111. There were only 2 bids for the car. I plan on getting in contact with them, and following what happens to the car. I'll keep the list updated. 

Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC

--- "Palatinus, Joe" <jopalatinus_at_dml_davidson.edu> wrote:

Joe P.
jopalatinus_at_dml_davidson.edu


Hello List, I just finished one hellofa day, I went to become a Coparts
buyer so that I could bid on the wrecked Delorean (Louie G's old D) in
China Grove NC.  I went and paid my 200 dollars for the right to bid,
but they neglected to file all of my information before the auction, so
when I came home to try to bid on the delorean (online) it didn't work.
I called them before the car came up, but it was too late to get the
paper work done, and that wrecked Delorean fell thorough my hands and
was sold for $2950 to some lucky bidder.  I will be getting my $200
back, but no parts car for me. Did anyone on the list get it? That would
at least make me feel somewhat satisfied.  Anyway, If the bidder is
online let me know if you might like to sell the hood and front fascia,
I might be interested!

Joe P.
VIN 17167 6808

_____________________________________________________________
Pre-order the updated second edition of  "DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion" now! Details <a href="http://www.stainless-steel-illusion.com" target="_blank">here!</a>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:52:09 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Neverending Ignition Controversy

Hopefully moderator will let this this reply through because, even
though we'd agree'd to disagree, you posted yet another message on the
topic. I then humbly suggest that until some startling new info
emerges we move on to other topics.

To answer your question first: yes, bridging DeLo resistors WILL
increase spark voltage. In fact DMC factory design starting relay does
that every time you turn the key. (That's what the relay next to them
is for). 

Now my question: Why does my simple $30 ignition coil continue to
bother you so?

Are many *OTHER* DeLo owners reporting improved performance from
higher voltage coils. Why don't you ever flame them?

MSD, Pertronix, Mallory, Jacobs, and even Accel have built quite an
industry out of nothing but "nice high numbers on boxes" BTW.

Could point you towards just as many websites (vs books) that say I'm
right and you're wrong, but what would that accomplish -- we'd end up
right back here in original disagreement.

Let's agree one more time to disagree, then not waste any more bandwidth.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> 
> Bill, you'r wrong again ;-)
> I will agree with you in some points, but not in the way you
> try to explain it or think it is working. If you're interested
> I can scan you some pictures of some books I have and that explain
> the ignition system very good. With some simple physical laws
> you will understand why there's never a higher voltage than about
> 20k volt on the ignition - as long as each part is ok.
> 
> If your coil stores more energy than the stock unit, then you may
> get some advantage of it. If only the ratio between primary and
secondary
> winding is higher than stock - you won't gain anything.(but you will get
> some nice and very high numbers on the box of the coil...that only
> tell that it is the max voltage if no spark can occure...)
> 
> I see you know and understand a lot about cars, fuel and stuff, why not
> try to understand the ignition, too ? that's something our car
> mechanics learn at school and with the analyzer (oszilloscope) they
> can tell you which part of the system has problems or not...(I learned
> a lot the last days while reading this stuff)
> 
> If stock iginition is set up too weak, then I should feel a difference
> by bridging one of the two resistors, right ? (for a few minutes
only, there
> won't be a problem with overheating or something.)
> If this makes a difference, the next step would be to find out which
coil
> would fit our cars without damaging the ECU or something. Maybe we
can get
> some informations from BOSCH...because Coil may be cheap, the ECU is
not.
> (by the way, my filters are clean, the fluids ok, the oil will be
changed
> before the winter - just my steering is still shaking when braking
> and nobody could tel me yet why ?!?!?!(new rotors installed!!!!!))
> 
> Elvis & 6548
> 
> ....
> Should be obvious by now that you and I will never agree on this
> issue. Humbly suggest you not get so worked up about it. Even if
> higher voltage coils had no benefit at all:
> 1) are my cars to configure as I wish
> 2) ignition coil usually costs less than any other item on engine
> 3) are 1001 other things you should be asking me about but never do:
> condition of filters, time since last fluid changes, etc
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:21:09 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DeLorean Car Show Magazine

Well the third issue of the magazine is at the binders and we should have it 
back this week.
If all goes well it will be in the mail Saturday.

October appears to be a busy month so we apologize for getting it out a bit 
later than we thought but I think waiting for the October events were worth the 
wait.

In the magazine this time we have mor articles than we have ever had

they include

A different view of the Tilley Project
Curtis and an article on his interior
Riverfest Evansville
General update on a number of events 
Pigeon Forge update
El Glow (Illuminated dash)
Mode switch repair
Project vixen update
Monster garage article by Don Steger
A look at the smokie mountains and the Dragon run
An article from one of the cast of BTTF who will be joining us at Pigeon Forge
George Crane and his look on the DMC Factory in Ireland
The Fall Foliage tour
DeLorean in the alps
A special article by Kevin Abato
New adds and new suppliers
And much much more including information on a NEW DELOREAN MOVIE (EXCLUSIVE)

you can order by going to www.deloreancarshow.com and yes we will take paypal
contact Jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net to order by paypal.  It will be on the web page 
shortly.

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:40 -0000
From: "minox8x11" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Porsche Boxer H6 engine

What would I need to look out for when considering putting a Flat 6
240HP Boxer engine in a Delorean?? Do you suppose it would work out?

spec:

Type: 	6-cylinder horizontally-opposed (boxer) for low center of
gravity and reduced vibration

Construction: 	Die-cast aluminum ally block, cast aluminum alloy heads
with 4 valves per cylinder and centrally located spark plugs

Valve Train: 	24-valve, with dual overhead camshafts (DOHC) and
hydraulic valve lash adjusters

Displacement: 	3.3 liter / 3318 cc / 202.5 cubic inches

Bore and Stroke: 	96.9 mm x 75 mm / 3.815 inches x 2.95 inches

Compression Ratio: 	10.0:1

Horsepower: 	230 _at_dml_ 5,400 rpm

Torque: 	228 _at_dml_ 4,400 rpm

Maximum Engine Speed: 	7,000 rpm

Engine Management: 	Integrated fuel and ignition systems. Engine
Control Unit (ECU) computer with learning and aging controls,
self-diagnosis and limp-home features. Twin knock sensors and oxygen
sensors provide separate control of each cylinder bank.

Fuel System: 	Multi-port electronic fuel injection with dual-spray
fuel injectors

Fuel Required: 	Unleaded 91 octane

Ignition System: 	Distributorless electronic crank-angle-dependent
direct-fire ignition with individual spark/coil units at each
platinum-tipped spark plug

Exhaust System: 	Twin downtube headers and dual catalytic converters
for reduced back pressure 

Michael
vin 6067




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:27:30 -0500
From: "Jennifer Tipton" <Jtipton_at_dml_iglou.com>
Subject: Re: Gullwing Option on New Lotus Elise...Can this work?

Its simply a gullwing top to ease ingress and egress. Its not supposed to be
a gullwing door design.


The strut compresses most of the way, then folds down.

Yes there is hardware, the same as the standard elise hardtop.

This is basically a standard elise hardtop with the small gulls in order to
give precious more room for tall people to lean in as they get in and out.

If you have further questions you can always email Tigga ( tigga , yes thats
his name,owns autostyle solutions)


Cheers
Jennifer
Lotus Elise Deposit holder #5 and #12 at Lotus of Atlanta
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 7:31 PM
Subject: [DML] Gullwing Option on New Lotus Elise...Can this work?


> I know this is slightly off subject, but I am sure there are DMC owners
> who can shed some technical light on the subject.
> A friend of mine recently put a deposit on the new Lotus Elise car that
> is set to ship to the US in spring of 2004.  While drooling over the
> thought of his future car, he started to research hard top options for
> the car.  As it turns out, there is a company in britan who is offering
> an aftermarket "Gullwing" option for the car.
>
> After viewing pictures, I am wondering how this can possibly
> work...maybe someone on this board can shed some light on the subject
> either by mechanical knowledge or maybe you have seen this design
> before.
>
> First:
>  - Pictures:  http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/
> <http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/gallery/solutions/t_bar/pages/soluti
> ons_t_bar_011.html>  <http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/>
>  - Write Up: http://www.autostyle-solutions.com/news/index.html
>
> Second:  Note that this is not a TRUE gullwing design.  Only the roof
> panels are lifted.
>
> OK...Here is what is getting me stumped:  Notice how the lift pistons
> are positioned in the CENTER of the roof panels?  How could it possibly
> close down all the way if the pistons are mounted there?   My guess is
> that perhaps the top part (skinnier insert) of the piston is somehow
> mounted to the roof panel in a fashon so that it slide to the center of
> the T-Panel as it closes.  Even more strange is that this whole setup is
> made to be taken off the car when you want so that it can be driven as a
> T-Top.  Wouldnt this require some tools to undo all the hardware in a
> clean looking fashion?
>
> Anyone know or have any ideas exactly how the strut could possibly be in
> the middle like that and still function?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:57:42 -0800
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Neverending Ignition Controversy

Bill, As you know the blue / yellow wire coming from the solenoid is only
working when the solenoid is engaged. This eliminates only 1/2 of the
resistor. If you want to eliminate the resistor you can move the white wire
on top right to bottom right and the resistor is eliminated. Couple that
with the Pertronix coil at 1.5 ohm and your in business. Even the Blaster 2
at .7 ohms should be ok, but it was really made to work with their
electronics unit.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: content22207 [mailto:brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:52 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Neverending Ignition Controversy


To answer your question first: yes, bridging DeLo resistors WILL
increase spark voltage. In fact DMC factory design starting relay does
that every time you turn the key. (That's what the relay next to them
is for).

Now my question: Why does my simple $30 ignition coil continue to
bother you so?

Are many *OTHER* DeLo owners reporting improved performance from
higher voltage coils. Why don't you ever flame them?

MSD, Pertronix, Mallory, Jacobs, and even Accel have built quite an
industry out of nothing but "nice high numbers on boxes" BTW.

Could point you towards just as many websites (vs books) that say I'm
right and you're wrong, but what would that accomplish -- we'd end up
right back here in original disagreement.

Let's agree one more time to disagree, then not waste any more bandwidth.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> Bill, you'r wrong again ;-)
> I will agree with you in some points, but not in the way you
> try to explain it or think it is working. If you're interested
> I can scan you some pictures of some books I have and that explain
> the ignition system very good. With some simple physical laws
> you will understand why there's never a higher voltage than about
> 20k volt on the ignition - as long as each part is ok.
>
> If your coil stores more energy than the stock unit, then you may
> get some advantage of it. If only the ratio between primary and
secondary
> winding is higher than stock - you won't gain anything.(but you will get
> some nice and very high numbers on the box of the coil...that only
> tell that it is the max voltage if no spark can occure...)
>
> I see you know and understand a lot about cars, fuel and stuff, why not
> try to understand the ignition, too ? that's something our car
> mechanics learn at school and with the analyzer (oszilloscope) they
> can tell you which part of the system has problems or not...(I learned
> a lot the last days while reading this stuff)
>
> If stock iginition is set up too weak, then I should feel a difference
> by bridging one of the two resistors, right ? (for a few minutes
only, there
> won't be a problem with overheating or something.)
> If this makes a difference, the next step would be to find out which
coil
> would fit our cars without damaging the ECU or something. Maybe we
can get
> some informations from BOSCH...because Coil may be cheap, the ECU is
not.
> (by the way, my filters are clean, the fluids ok, the oil will be
changed
> before the winter - just my steering is still shaking when braking
> and nobody could tel me yet why ?!?!?!(new rotors installed!!!!!))
>
> Elvis & 6548
>
> ....
> Should be obvious by now that you and I will never agree on this
> issue. Humbly suggest you not get so worked up about it. Even if
> higher voltage coils had no benefit at all:
> 1) are my cars to configure as I wish
> 2) ignition coil usually costs less than any other item on engine
> 3) are 1001 other things you should be asking me about but never do:
> condition of filters, time since last fluid changes, etc
>
> Bill Robertson
> #5939



To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:08:03 -0500
From: jimbo0946_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear Louver Needed

Thanks for your condolences.  The damage actually isn't all that bad.  Only one of the louvers is damaged and it is only the edge of it that has splintered from where they guy stood.  It happened in New Brunswick, New Jersey. It should be repairable.

Jim



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:48:15 -0800
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel

Sorry,
But the HP coils such as the Blaster and others are designed for 10,000
RPM's and deliver 7.5 amps of current at 180MJ( Stored energy ). Normal
secondary operating voltage is 36 to 42KVA depending on input voltage. They
were build for performance. There is no reverse effect. Unless you get up or
close to the maxed out rating of the coil which I don't think we have
anything to worry about. Couple that with low ohmage wires which are also
made for maximum performance to the plugs and you get a strong spark backed
up with the current it needs. The reverse affect is a better running car and
smoother idle and stronger pick up.
John Hervey
   http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-images/performance-package.jpg

-----Original Message-----
From: David Teitelbaum [mailto:jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 8:47 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel


Getting technical now there is a property called "saturation". Simply
stated you can only put so much energy into a coil, any more and it
won't give you anymore output. Using a coil with a higher ratio of
turns in it may give you more output voltage but only up to the
saturation point. That point is reached as the RPM's increase. Think
of it as turning the coil on and off fast. The faster you turn it on
and off the less you will get out of it. So that high performance coil
may give you more voltage at 2,500 rpm but as you get up to 4,000 it
may not have enough oomph left in it. There is a reverse efffect, and
that is as the RPM's increase the combustion pressures increase
requiring higher and higher voltages to jump the gap on the spark
plugs. This is just when that oversaturated coil is not able to keep
up. You really have to think of these things as SYSTEMS. By changing
one part in the secondary ignition system you will not gain much. The
difference you may notice is only because the coil you replaced was 20
+ years old and wasn't doing enough in the first place. You could have
replaced it with a new, stock coil and probably noticed the same
improvement. The problem with that is most people will also change the
spark plugs and wires too (at the same time) and give all the credit
in improved performance to the new, performance coil. This is part of
the logic behind the move on the newest cars to put a coil on each
spark plug. Now the coil only has to fire once for it's own cylinder
so you don't have to turn it on and off so fast and you never get to
the point of oversaturation. You can go to much higher voltages and
not worry about the ignition wires because the coil fits right on the
plug. This is how they can get the motors up into the 6-8000 RPM
range. In these applications they will now use a crankshaft trigger to
keep the timming as accurate as possible and do completely away with
the distributer because at these speeds and voltages it can't keep up
either. You get crossover inside and inductive coupling from the
wires, the spark will actually induce voltages in the other wires
alongside and cause crossfire if the sparks don't jump inside the
distributer cap and rotor. Once you start down this path it just gets
more and more expensive and complicated. The moral here is the stock
system is more than adequate for most of the people driving normaly on
city streets.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> Bill, you'r wrong again ;-)
> I will agree with you in some points, but not in the way you
> try to explain it or think it is working. If you're interested
> I can scan you some pictures of some books I have and that explain
> the ignition system very good. With some simple physical laws
> you will understand why there's never a higher voltage than about




To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:28:41 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Porsche Boxer H6 engine

Room, for starters. Looking at the DMC frame design, a Flat 6 
probably won't fit in between the frame members (it's a close fit on 
the original V-6). Have you measured either the car or the engine? V-
engines are probably the only way to go. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "minox8x11" <mpaine_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> What would I need to look out for when considering putting a Flat 6
> 240HP Boxer engine in a Delorean?? Do you suppose it would work out?





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:26:42 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Engine overhauling

I have not rebuilt the PRV engine yet so what I am giving you is out
of the DMC Workshop manual. You are basically correct with the
dimensions you have given. In the DMC manual it does not have any
specific cautions against using more than 1 seal (it just assumes that
1 will do it). The difference in protrusions between any two ajacent
liners should not exceed .04mm (.0016"). Differences must be "stepped
among the cylinders in a bank. (Don't go up-down-up). I would continue
to try Volvo dealers. Talk to the service manager and get him to help.
There might be a spacer ring that you can order to get you "into the
ballpark" so that you can finish up with a selective liner base seal
that will get you closer to the high end of the protrusion
specifacation or they may tell you it is perfectly OK to use more than
one seal. The use of more than one seal may allow more "crush" so you
may have to exceed the high end spec and instead of .23mm protrusion
.25-.26mm may be alright. The engine in a Delorean is very close to a
Volvo 760. The core (which is what you are doing now) is identical so
the assembly specs are the same. BTW you are supposed to use a "Thrust
Plate Bracket" on the liner and a dial indicator (clock gauge) to
actually measure the protusion accuratly . You are dealing with very
small measurements here so take your time and try to be as accurate as
you can be. You should be able to do this with a flat plate and feeler
gauges. The manual says to measure in 2 places being opposite each
other and use the larger one for measurement purposes. Eveb if you
reassemble with the protrusion .147mm the difference from that to
.23mm is VERY small.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Hi folks
> 
> I came across this list while searching for info on rebulding a PRV 
> V6 and, noticing that there is a huuuge number of members here, I'm 
> hoping someone might be able to help or at least point me in the 
> direction of a source of help. 
> 
> I'm in the process of a full rebuild on a 2.8litre V6 out of a '86 
> Volvo 760. I realise that the car isn't even close to a DeLorean, but 
> I gather that the engines are virtually identical. 
> 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:41:35 EST (-0500)
From: "Michael Paine" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Porsche Boxer H6 engine

not yet I can get the engine fairly cheap and figured I would get one 
and see if it fit if not resell it

I don't have access to an engine unless I buy it - I can measure my car 
though :-) Would be a neat conversion no? 240HP DMC non-turbo

> Room, for starters. Looking at the DMC frame design, a Flat 6 
> probably won't fit in between the frame members (it's a close fit on 
> the original V-6). Have you measured either the car or the engine? V-
> engines are probably the only way to go. 
> 
> Dave S
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "minox8x11" <mpaine_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> > What would I need to look out for when considering putting a Flat 6
> > 240HP Boxer engine in a Delorean?? Do you suppose it would work 
> > out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://
> groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
> terms/ 
> 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:46:12 -0000
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>
Subject: Re: Engine overhauling

Thanks for the help David.
I've spoken to our local Volvo service people and they don't have 
much of a clue. They have never had a V6 apart, would you believe! 
The parts department wasn't much help either. They're not even sure 
they can get hold of the seals. The best they could do was suggest I 
work out what I need, order the bits, then pray they turn up. Yike! 
Spoke to a French car specialist who has worked on the 
Peugeot/Renault versions of the V6, and he advised to just pick the 
thickest seal available and slap it all back together and not worry 
about it so much. Double yike. 
Coming from a background of ocassionally working on Goggomobil 
engines where some minimum tolerances are given as 0.00000 inches 
(!),  I have some fancy measuring gear and have been meticulous in 
using it. Still end up with much the same result as using a flat 
ground bar and feeler gauges though :)

Cheers
Steve Abbott
 

   --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> I have not rebuilt the PRV engine yet so what I am giving you is out
> of the DMC Workshop manual. You are basically correct with the
> dimensions you have given. In the DMC manual it does not have any
> specific cautions against using more than 1 seal (it just assumes 
that
> 1 will do it). The difference in protrusions between any two ajacent
> liners should not exceed .04mm (.0016"). Differences must 
be "stepped
> among the cylinders in a bank. (Don't go up-down-up). I would 
continue
> to try Volvo dealers. Talk to the service manager and get him to 
help.
> There might be a spacer ring that you can order to get you "into the
> ballpark" so that you can finish up with a selective liner base seal
> that will get you closer to the high end of the protrusion
> specifacation or they may tell you it is perfectly OK to use more 
than
> one seal. The use of more than one seal may allow more "crush" so 
you
> may have to exceed the high end spec and instead of .23mm protrusion
> .25-.26mm may be alright. The engine in a Delorean is very close to 
a
> Volvo 760. The core (which is what you are doing now) is identical 
so
> the assembly specs are the same. BTW you are supposed to use 
a "Thrust
> Plate Bracket" on the liner and a dial indicator (clock gauge) to
> actually measure the protusion accuratly . You are dealing with very
> small measurements here so take your time and try to be as accurate 
as
> you can be. You should be able to do this with a flat plate and 
feeler
> gauges. The manual says to measure in 2 places being opposite each
> other and use the larger one for measurement purposes. Eveb if you
> reassemble with the protrusion .147mm the difference from that to
> .23mm is VERY small.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:33:55 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Request for feedback

I've been getting phone calls and reading posts about folks replacing
their head gaskets or discovering blown head gaskets.

Some of you have used, or are using my article in the tech section of
DMCnews.com on head gasket replacement.

Basically, what I'm after here is feedback on how useful the article
was to you, what you found wrong with it and such.

I am glad to make this contribution to the community and I want to
make sure the the procedure -works-. I don't want to be the
proliferator of mis-information.

Please email me offline if you've used it and let me know how it
worked for you and any updates you think might help others. You can
rate it if you like:

1. Very sorry
2. Sorta sorry
3. Useful
4. Very Useful
5. Couldn't have done it without ya.

I'd make a poll but you can't put suggestions in a poll.

Thanks,

Rich A.
#5335




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:03:57 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Stubborn Vehicle

Yessir.

#5335 is the most stubborn car I have ever owned. It's enough to make
grown man cry. After all that care over the weekend with the guys, I
have yet another show-stopper (sort of).

Problem: The frequency valve is no longer working.

Please read carefully. There's a lot of info here. :)

Tests: 
1. Fuses 1 & 7 are good.
2. RPM relay is working. (pulled cover off and observed both contacts
closed when engine runs)
3. Lambda relay is working. Provides power to ECU correctly as noted
by voltage on green/yellow wire to ECU. ECU is grounded (cleaned &
checked)
4. Jumpered 87b to 30 on RPM relay to power lambda system. Valve does
not buzz.
5. 12Vdc is present on red/purp wire to freq valve. (grounded to block)
6. 12Vdc is NOT present across valve wires (red/purp & red/brn) The
ECU provides ground on red/brn. No ground appears present at any
time.(problem here?)
7. CO screw adjusted to encourage different behavior from ECU/freq
valve. No effect.
8. Valve does not buzz when WOT switch is closed (fixed ratio)
9. Valve does not buzz when engine is cold before O2 sensor kicks in
(fixed ratio)
10. Valve does not buzz when AA battery is applied to sensor lead.
11. I CAN open and close valve manually by providing ground from valve
(-) terminal to block since ground is missing from the ECU. Valve
operates. (I pretend to be the ECU this way by applying ground)
12. Dwell meter indicates no signal from ECU, reads zero. Tested IAW
the manual.
13. Lastly, cleaned and checked the lambda ground on the intake, and 
 performed a continuity check on freq valve ground wire (red/brown)
from the ECU plug, to the freq valve. Wire is unbroken.

I'm always told the ECU's never fail. I have done everything I can to
avoid blaming the ECU. I have tried to eliminated the ECU as the
cause. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but that's where this
seems to be leading. I believe the ECU switches ground on and off very
rapidly to make the valve buzz. The ground wire (red/brown) is intact
but the power circuit for the valve reads as an open when the system
is powered up. Again, the RED/PURPLE to the freq valve reads 12vdc, so
there is power. The ECU doesn't seem to be applying ground.

Am I crazy? Has ANYONE here ever had the ECU fail?

Thanks,

Rich A. &
The Stainless Steel Mule (#5335)




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/