From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1752
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:49 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel
From: Paul Gress <pgress_at_dml_pb.net>

2. Re: eyebrows
From: Paul Gress <pgress_at_dml_pb.net>

3. Re: Re: 1983 Delorean Vin Numbers
From: "Randy Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. MORE 'D' BLUES
From: Lance Haslewood <lanceh_at_dml_zeta.org.au>

5. George Barris
From: "Randy Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com>

6. Re: Does anyone have an active carfax account?
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

7. Re: Re: Cup Holder - ADVANCED
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. Re: Re: Cup Holder - ADVANCED
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Re: Starter Failed
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

10. Re: Re: Fiberglass front fascia
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

11. Re: New DeLorean owner; first technical question
From: "Dan RC30" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Delorean in Magazine
From: mroboto_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: George Barris
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

14. Gullwing Magazine/2004 Calendar answers...
From: gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com

15. RE: Starter Failed
From: "Michael Fischer" <Michael.Fischer_at_dml_dittybase.com>

16. Re: hot start no start
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>

17. Re: NEC show this weekend past
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

18. Re: New DeLorean owner; first technical question
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. Re: Rotten Engine Top Casting
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: Re: Cup Holder - ADVANCED
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

21. Re: New DeLorean owner; first technical question
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

22. Re: Re: NEC show this weekend past
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

23. RE: idle flux / stall / pickup line?
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

24. Re: hot start no start
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

25. cup holder
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:01:10 -0500
From: Paul Gress <pgress_at_dml_pb.net>
Subject: Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel

On 12 Nov 2003 12:14:38 -0000, <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I've been reading this section now for a while.  There are a couple of 
points I need to make.  The voltage of the ignition is regulated by the 
"spark gap".  This happens to be the spark plug.  The voltage will only 
build up until a spark can avalanche across the spark plug electrodes.  
It usually requires the most voltage at times of peak compression, which 
is during full throttle.  To take advantage of being capable of 
generating greater voltage, you have to widen the spark gap.  If you 
don't do that all your really buying is longer lasting spark plugs.  The 
next topic is the ignition coil.  When you apply a voltage across its 
primary coil, the voltage on the output begins to build up.  As the 
voltage is building up, the current being drawn by the primary coil is 
inductive, and the ferrite (magnetic) core is still charging greater.  
Once the current or voltage has been there for a short period of time, 
the ferrite core will be fully magnetized.  After this point, the 
current draw will not be inductive, but will turn to resistive.  This is 
the saturation point.  Now the coil will start increasing the amount of 
current its drawing, because at approximately 1 ohm, its almost a short 
circuit.  This is the reason for the ballast resistor, to limit current 
so you don't burn up the primary coil windings.  Usually ignition coils 
with different magnetic cores tuned for higher frequencies (RPM's) will 
saturate at a higher rpm and may require greater resistance (ballast 
resistors) to prevent overheating or burning up the primary circuit at 
lower rpm's.

Paul Gress
vin 10193
 >
 >    Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:47:05 -0000
 >    From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
 > Subject: Re: High Voltage Coils, High Octane Fuel
 >
 > Getting technical now there is a property called "saturation". Simply
 > stated you can only put so much energy into a coil, any more and it
 > won't give you anymore output. Using a coil with a higher ratio of
 > turns in it may give you more output voltage but only up to the
 > saturation point. That point is reached as the RPM's increase. 

[moderator snip}



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:25:47 -0500
From: Paul Gress <pgress_at_dml_pb.net>
Subject: Re: eyebrows

I believe it was during the manufacturing of the part.  I had my front 
fascia replaced around 1986 or 1988, the new parts weren't that old yet, 
and it came from Kpac that way.  Before it was installed It bonded a 
flat aluminum bar (approx 1" x 1/4" x16") under each eyebrow to 
straighten it out.  It's now been good for 15 years.

Paul
vin 10193


 >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:04:20 -0000
 >From: "videobob11" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
 >Subject: Re: eyebrows
 > >I am willing to believe the warping is from heat, but I doubt it is
 >from the headlights, it is more likely from sitting in the sun next to
 >a hot radiator under it, with sun beaming on it slowly warping it over
 >time. I have considered taking one of these front peices and making
 >a hard fiberglass version.
 >Has anyone else ever thought of that?
 >Would anyone be interested in buying one if I made them?
 >I will look into it,....
- VB




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:47:28 -0700
From: "Randy Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: 1983 Delorean Vin Numbers

Not sure if this will help in regards to VIN numbers, but my Vin#16353 was 
built in the factory,
and then sent to Long Beach.  Therefore, it's not a Canadian DMC.

If I know my DeLorean history correct, later VIN numbered cars were 
assembled at KAPAC.
Whether or not the Canadian ones were built there as well, is not to my 
knowledge.

Hope this helps in some way.

Randy Atamaniuk
Vin #16353



>I am in the process of purchasing a Canadian 1983 (Vin 17084). The
>original owner told me a Cadillac dealership in Oakville Ontario was
>buying as many Canadian models as they could from KAPAC.  He and 2 of
>his friends drove down and each purchased one.
>
>The strange thing is that I have been told, and have read, there were
>only between 80 and 100 made for the Canadian market (stickers,
>speedo, etc) but the range of Vin #'s I have been able to find seem
>to indicate over 200.
>
>When I complete the purchase I intend on documenting as much of the
>car as I can and will post a link (probably along with lots of
>questions!)
>
>
>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, MichaelRPack1_at_dml_c... wrote:
> >
> > Hi List,
> >
> > I have been off of the list for a long time. It is great to be
>welcomed back by so many of you. Thank you and please keep in touch.
> >
> > I recently purchased a 1983 Vin 20069. I was told that the car is
>the fifth from the last made. Is this true?
> > The last DMC ever made isn't that far from us here in Maryland. I
>think that we should organize a DMC trip to visit Carl!
> >
> > There were some questions raised about the Vin numbers, parts used
>& options that the later 20000 VIN 1983 cars had that other lower VIN
>1983's did not have.
> >
> > The car is 100% like it was from KAPAC. The car was driven from
>Columbus in 09-1984 to Maryland and stored. The car doesn’t have
>chrome muffler exhaust tips, however it has gray leather, and smooth
>hood with emblem. The car was stored in the basement of the original
>owners house. The car still has the original oil, air and belts from
>Renault.
> > The chassis is not sprayed with tar undercoating as some 1983 cars
>were at the docks in New Jersey.
> >
> > This car was hand picked by the original owner because it was
>parked near the last DMC made, the Gold car.
> >
> > The original owner remembers that sales were brisk and steady
>during the two days that he was there to pick up his car back in
>1984. The car was discounted by KAPAC for $22,500 in 1984. The
>sticker price was in the 30’s. That was an expensive car back then.
> >
> > Please comment about your knowledge of 1983 DMC's
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Michael Pack
> > Severna Park Maryland
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:59:42 +1100
From: Lance Haslewood <lanceh_at_dml_zeta.org.au>
Subject: MORE 'D' BLUES

John & Group,

John, thank you for your input and advice.  My problem is not 'water in the 
oil', but 'oil in the water'.  The sump is completely free of water or 
condensation.  I do not live in an area which experiences freezing 
conditions, so I guess I can rule-out freezing.  I've had a few days to 
sleep on the matter and think of the possible causes.  One of the 
possibilities I'm dreading is that the problem may be associated with 
corrosion.  I dread the thought.  I guess I'm hoping that a fault lies with 
the head/s gasket which should not be all that difficult to replace.  Which 
ever way I go, I think that the heads are going to have to come off.

My DeLorean has low miles and sat in a museum for some years before I 
purchased it.  I know for a fact that preventative maintenance on the car 
was basically non-existent while it was 'incarcerated'.  Who knows how long 
the coolant sat unchanged in the engine during those museum years.  I've 
owned the 'D' for about six years and have changed the coolant yearly, as I 
do with my other car.  I have this gut-busting feeling that I'm in for a 
torrid and probably expensive time ahead.

Oh, since I've owned the car, I've used a filter sock in the cooling system 
and have been amased at the gunk it has trapped ..... another reason why I 
think it may be corrosion.

Lance.



Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:56:58 -0800
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: MORE 'D' BLUES

Lance and Group, I got called over to a shop here in Dallas that an 81 was
getting water in the oil and the car had an oily smell. After a couple of
hours looking, we found the block was cracked in the square pockets below
the internal water pipe. After it was all cleaned up, it was welded and
everything is ok. Big scare for the customer but cost under $100.00 to have
an aluminum welder come over. My question or statement is, did water fill up
the holes or pockets and freeze and that was what cracked the block.
Would it be prudent to fill the holes with silicone or something to prevent
water from standing.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com








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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:04:17 -0700
From: "Randy Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: George Barris

Maxim Magazine currently has a special Movie Edition out, called MAXIM GOES 
TO THE MOVIES (www.maximmovies.com).

About half-way through the magazine, there is a two-page article regarding 
Hollywood Star Cars,
featuring George Barris (www.barris.com).  And in this article, along with 
the General Lee, K.I.T.T.,
Ecto-1 and many other star cars, the Back to the Future DeLorean is 
featured.

A small blurb under the photo of the DeLorean, Barris, states that he worked 
with John DeLorean in helping design the original DMC-12, and later worked 
on the Back to the Future DeLorean.

Both statements are completely FALSE!  Many of you know very well, that 
George Barris had absolutely
nothing to do with the DMC-12.  And as for the BTTF DMC, all film-used cars 
are property of Universal Studios, and no BTTF DMC has been made available 
for public ownership.  Yet, Barris claims he has an actual film used car.  
Again, FALSE.

I have seen Barris' BTTF DMC up-close, and let me tell you, it is absolutley 
nothing like the Kevin Pike designed car.  Far from it!  The fact that 
Barris goes around making these statements is absurd, and yet I cannot see 
why Universal hasn't yet stopped him from using this as his promotional 
tool, when it's simply not true.

As for the story of him now working with J.Z.D. on the factory car, what can 
I say.  What can anyone say?

Randy Atamaniuk
Vin #16353 - Randy_at_dml_BTTF.com

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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:31:20 -0500
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Does anyone have an active carfax account?

How clever of them..

go here and find the magic link in the page.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/7oys/110903_7oys_odometer.html

sorry.
Jim


On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:41:28 EST NJP548_at_dml_aol.com writes:
> yeah and this was the message i got:
> 
> We're sorry. An unauthorized user or referring site sent you to this 
> link, 
> and it cannot be processed.
> 
>     
> thanks anyway


________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:36:17 -0600
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Cup Holder - ADVANCED

The problem with all of these clip on drink holders is that they take up 
space on the passenger side.
Where will my wife put her knees?
I guess we will have to take the cup holder while she holds my drink!

Back to the idea of cutting into the frame, I was going to do it rather 
advaned.
There would not simply be a hole, I would fabricate and weld together a 
"CUP" and
weld it into place, and cover it in matching vinyl.

The design of the cup holder in my Taurus is deep, it will easily hold most 
"large" cups
from the fast food places, and easily swallow a can or a bottle.
The thing that makes it special is that it is deep and snug.
These clip on drink holders have no strength.
One quick stop or turn and SPLASH!
I have never spilled a drink in my Taurus.

My D is to be a daily driver.
I live in my car....and damnit, on those long-stuck-in-traffic days to 
Dallas I need a
large cup of sweet tea - sip it all day.
I guess it's the country boy in me.
I don't smoke, drink or take drugs - damnit let me have my tea!!!!!!

SO one way or another I will figure out how to put a useable drink holder in 
my D,
even if it means cutting the friggin frame in HALF!

- VB


>
[moderator snip]
>
>On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:18:50 -0000, videobob11 wrote:
>
> > We have all seen that clip on cup holder for sale, ....
>[snip]
> > I have an idea but I am not sure if it will fly.
>[snip]
> > My idea is to remove the top of the console and ashtray,
> > and custom build a new one. The idea is to either drill
> > into the actual frame with a hole saw and recess the cup
> > holder down into it with a matching base.
>
>I wouldn't do this... Sawing into the backbone of the frame
>is a BAD idea and just cutting into the fiberglass body under
>the console would probably not give you enough clearance
>AND it will let a LOT of road noise through into the cabin,
>ask Martin G.!
>
[moderator snip]



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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:42:01 -0600
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Cup Holder - ADVANCED

I do kind of like that configuration of the picture you sent me, looks tough 
to reach way over there though. I considered putting the holder on the 
console BEHIND the ashtray to be out of the way.
Of couse this is a little twist to get to, but at least it's secure.
Picture a race car driver.... as he twists and tunrs, shifting gears, he 
snatches a sip in the
straight away.... that's me.
I gotta have my tea.
- VB


[moderator snip]
>
>Bob,
>Take a look at this cup holder:
>http://205.133.7.130/images/cupholder.jpg
>(don't know who's car it is, just saw it and liked it)
>More simple & practical than frame cut'n. Your beverage can sweat and drip
>without fear of electrical wiring. Just a wet leg of the passenger ;-) I 
>think
>its better and cheeper than the "clip on" version.
>
>I use the area between the seat and carpeted body of the car. Screw on 
>20oz-ers
>are the best. Have to drive extra carefull when driving if a typical
>lided-choke-n-chew cup is used.
>
>You don't rest your arm on the console & ashtray area while driving?
>
>Shannon Y
>16506
>
>
[moderator snip]



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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:44:25 -0600
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Failed

Yo EJ, I called that guy, and he says he won't part with the starter - it 
goes with the extra engine.
But he also said you can use any old Volvo V-6 starter?
He suggested getting one from a junkyard for about $20.00, he said they last 
forever.
...all except for yours of course!
Maybe someone can clarify the cross-reference?
- VB


[moderator snip]
>
>Hello All:
>
>My starter recently failed. Was able to get this confirmed when I
>pulled it out and took it down to Autozone and they verified this
>with their testing equipment.
>
>Now I am in need of a replacement. I didnt know where the best place
>I could find a replacement would be. Ironically DeLoreans are not in
>Autozone's database. I wasnt sure if there was a cross reference part
>for the starter of would be best to order one from a parts dealer?
>
>Has anyone been through this situation and had to replace the
>starter? I know the starter is supposed to be a reliable part that
>does not break, but when it rains it pours it seems.
>
>Thanks in advance for any responses.
>E.j.
>Vin 4475



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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:47:30 -0600
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Fiberglass front fascia

Rich, you have more chopped and modified Delorean's than anyone!
Keeping the car "original"?
When did a convertable, hovering 4x4 become original? HA HA HA - LOL
- VB


[moderator snip]
>
>VB and List,
>
>As the owner of the original CodeOne full-size fiberglass Delorean body,
>I can convey some of the pro's and con's of the fiberglass front fascia.
>
>The pro's include having a non-warping nose due to any type of heat and
>the ability to mount almost anything to the fascia (such as BTTF parts).
>
>However, there are many more con's beyond the obvious no longer stock
>or OEM, with regards to keeping a Delorean all original.  

[moderator snip]



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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:06:35 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New DeLorean owner; first technical question

Why not ask the shop you took the car to for an estimate???

---Dan



My main question:
When she fires up, and she fires RIGHT up, if we put any pressure on her
accelerator she will die immediately.  Repeat this process about 5-7 times 
and
she will finally run stable.  Is this a sign of bad fuel and the need to 
clean
the fuel system?  I'm going to instruct them to take out and clean the fuel
tank, and inspect and clean the rest of the fuel system.  What kind of bill 
am I
looking at from a garage who KNOWS what they're doing.  Their rate is $60 
per
hour.  They have the manuals; they know exactly how to take care of the fuel
system; I have complete trust in them.  Can anyone give me a "guesstimate" 
of a
bill I may be looking at?  Thank you all for your input; I have owned her 
for 24
hours now to almost the exact minute, and I'm trying to get her roadworthy.
Hopefully, this will be the step that gets her on the road.

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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:17:55 EST
From: mroboto_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Delorean in Magazine


There is a DeLorean in an article about Gullwinged cars in the December issue 
of "Modified Mag" page 65. It speaks well of the car pictured. However, the 
details in the article are largely incorrect.
At least there are no references to mechanical issues or drugs. It mentions 
the car's status as a pop icon that was "way ahead of it's time".
But then again, those of us who own them, already knew that..........

Daniel Deutsch (Orlando)
3356 & 15779


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:34:29 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: George Barris

Randy,

I have had a run in with George Barris last year..  He tried to rent my 
car and claim that it was the original BTTF car.  Supposedly, he claims 
he bought one of Jay Orbergs original cars and it caught fire and was 
destroyed. When I told him that I would not participate in fraud, he 
threatened to tell Universal studios about my car.  I told him, go 
ahead, they already know about my car!  He hung up at that point.

Virtually, all of the cars Barris claims he has are actually other 
peoples cars.  e.g.. the Ghost Buster car is owned by a guy in upstate 
NY.   The Monkey, was built by a guy in Penn.  the new bat mobile is 
owned by a guy in OK.  His "General Lee" car at Volo has no interior and 
is a fake.

George gets away with doing this because he buys licenses from the movie 
studies for $20,000 per year to advertise their movie cars.  The studios 
don't really care where the cars come from or even if they are original, 
it is publicity they want and Barris does the advertising. This is why 
Barris gets away making the claims that he does.

However, his fakery recently caught up with him in Florida.  A car 
museum closed in Orlando and sold off the cars that were there.  One of 
them was a "Barris -original Batmobile"   A guy bought the car for 
$110,000 thinking is was the original   Turned out to have a 1972 Torino 
frame underneath so it could not have been the original car from the 
1966 series.  He sued the auction house, the car museum owner and Barris.  

Barris gave the guy his money back and the guy even got to keep the car. 
Barris claims that he never said it was the original Batmobile - just a 
Batmobile.  However, the advertisements at the Car museum claimed it was 
the original batmobile.  

  97 Delorean Time Machine - Not the Back to the Future Original Movie Car.!






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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:35:41 -0600
From: gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com
Subject: Gullwing Magazine/2004 Calendar answers...

For everyone that's been asking, or anticipating when the next magazine
issue will be out, we've been keeping with the quarterly schedule...
February, May, August, so the next one will be out this month!

Actually, we'll be ready to print this weekend, and they should all be
shipped during the week.  I'd expect delivery around Thanksgiving or
sooner, depending on where you live.

The 2004 DeLorean calendar will be available soon.  They'll be printed
and shipped right after all Gullwing Magazine orders go out this month. 
We'll post the order information just as soon as we know what the cost
will be for the finished product.

Please keep Gullwing merchandise in mind, gift subscriptions, and the
2004 DeLorean calendar for everyone on your Holiday shopping lists!

(see subscription info below)

Thank you,
Ron and Cheryl Wester

To subscribe to GULLWING Magazine, send check or money order to:

GULLWING Magazine
P.O. Box 991
St. Peters, MO  63376
USA

or electronic fund transfers available using checking account or credit
card via www.PayPal.com to gullwingmagazine(at)juno.com.

The cost for the magazine is $48 US, $54 Canada, $66 Foreign.

This will get you a one year subscription of four issues starting with
the current issue #4.
(Back issues are available at the back issue price of $16.75 US, $18.25
Canada, $20.00 Foreign.)

Sincerely,

Ron & Cheryl Wester
gullwingmagazine(at)juno.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:40:03 -0700
From: "Michael Fischer" <Michael.Fischer_at_dml_dittybase.com>
Subject: RE: Starter Failed

Hi EJ,
	When my starter went 2 years ago, I just took it to a local
starter/alternator/electrical shop;  he guy took one look at it and said
"is this from a renault or a volvo?  And a 5 speed right?"  Wow, he had
it right on the money, well mine was shot because of clutch dust & dust
build up in it; a common problem he said, and even worse for us since
the start sits backwards , lots of wind to help blow the dust in.
	Anyway they were able to rebuilt the starter in a day, cost my
$100 Canadian (so like $70 US) including a new solenoid and drive gear.
No muss, no fuss, and I have my "original" parts still in it.

	Autozone and the like are grocery stores for auto parts,  never
hurts to go the the specialty markets for quality.

Mike
Vin 17106




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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:28:25 -0500
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: hot start no start

I have what I thought to be a hot start problem.  Replaced the accumulator
that didn't solve it.  Replaced the fuel distributor and that didn't solve
it.  Checked out the fuel pump and it needed a new boot but that did not
make a difference.  Tried the push button relay to activate cold start valve
and that did not allow the car to start (but did get a big gas smell so the
relay must have worked).  Asked for help in this forum and basically got
(not that I am complaining) no other advice.

Symptoms are car starts fine after sitting a while.  Once hot it MAY not
want to start after sitting for 10 minutes or so.  Weird thing is if I am
having this version of a "hot start" problem, I can depress the accelerator
to the floor and it will start fine.  If I don't either let the car sit for
a long time or use the accelerator depression method discussed above I can
count on draining the battery and still not starting the car.

Doesn't make sense to me but it works so it may be worth a try in your case
too.

Ed
10541

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "armac.rm" <armac_at_dml_rocketmail.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:21 PM
Subject: [DML] hot start no start


> 81 model with 11k on the clock. I have replaced every part of the
> fuel system except the fuel pump and RPM relay. I am going to perform
> the intake hose and baffle update but was wondering if I should go
> ahead and replace the fuel pump while I had it out. The pump makes a
> very light hum like most pumps do and that is all. I hate not driving
> the car because of the fact that I know ot will not start back up
> once the engine has been running with out alot of trouble. I could
> jump the hot start relay socket and get it to start but after
> replacement of the fuel accumaltor, that little trick does not seem
> to work any more.
>
>
> VIN# 5745



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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:12:21 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: NEC show this weekend past

Like any other car make you will find Deloreans in all sorts of
condition. After many years some are in disrepair from age and
incompetant mechanics who use "wrong" parts. Others are just neglected
and stored outside. When a "new' owner gets one they generally try to
improve the condition. Many times they find they are "getting in over
their head" in time and expense so they stop. Here in the US you see
the whole gamut from pristine trailer queens to the ones that you
wonder why they are still running. It gets expensive to get and keep
one in really nice shape. With enough patience and money you can make
even the worst looking one very nice but it is ALWAYS faster and
cheaper to buy the best one you can and then fix it up. Of course it
helps if you are handy and can do much of the labor yourself but not
every owner can do that.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "grimsby_paul" <grimsby_paul_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I went to the show in Birmingham this past weekend to see my first 
> DeLorean in person - while it was a thrill to see 3 of them in one 
> place, I was a little disappointed in their presentation. One had a 
> shattered back window, all the cars had dents and dings all over 
> them, and tatty interiors. Not outstanding examples of the marque by 
> any stretch of the imagination! Is that all that we've got here? I 
> spoke with one youngish person selling parts from the "boot" of a 
> DeLorean there and was led to believe that these were fine examples 

> 
> 




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:27:10 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: New DeLorean owner; first technical question

Here's a list of things to check
Clean the fuel injectors and replace the seals
Fix EVERY vacuum leak
Make sure the Lambda system is working
Check the temerature sensitive valves in the vacuum advance system and
the hose routing 
Check the cold start system
Check the Control Pressure Regulator
You should find the problem after checking these systems
Cleaning the fuel tank is a good idea along with inspecting the parts
inside. Change the fuel filter soon after (like after running a tank
of gas through). It won't fix the problem but it is a good idea
anyway. Even though you are saying the rate is $60/hr they might get
you on the hours (you aren't standing over them watching, right?) For
a problem you are troubleshooting for there is no set time. To clean
the fuel tank should take 2-3 hours if you are inexperienced on
Deloreans. Twenty minutes is what it really should take. BTW the tank
doesn't have to be removed to be cleaned. Even with manuals, without
the injector tester they can't clean and test them.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_y...>
wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>  
>   After a couple months absence, I just bought my DeLorean
yesterday.  She is vin # 3299, and she is in quite the immaculate
condition.  She already has had new fans, belts, hoses, electrical
updates, factory recalls, new control pressure regulator, door struts,
and air filter put on her (thank you DMC93n99 for doing all of that
for me).
>  
> I have alot more things to do to her which I'm going to trust to the
garage I have serviced with for 13 years now.  They will be adding the
rest of the main service kit that I purchased.  The new parts they
will put on her will be the oil filter, fuel filter, lambda sensor,
sparkplugs, and other items from service kit 111143GC (PJ Grady's). 
My main question:
>  
> When she fires up, and she fires RIGHT up, if we put any pressure on
her accelerator she will die immediately.  Repeat this process about 




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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:34:24 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Rotten Engine Top Casting

I though of another possability, oil once got into the coolant system
and there are still pockets of it trapped inside. Before you tear the
heads off you might try flushing the system with a cleaner to
break-down and remove any pockets of oil. If after that you still find
oil in the coolant then the heads will have to come off. On the
subject of the holes in the top of the motor, they aren't from cracks,
when the distribution pipe leaks, or any of the hoses on top, the
coolant sits in those recesses and ROTS the top of the motor. When
working in that area a Shop Vac cleans it right out.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Has been discussion about this in the past. General consensus then was
> casting acts like a heat sink. Best solution was to keep the recesses
> clean. Is no problem to spray water UNDER intake manifold every time





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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:57:27 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Cup Holder - ADVANCED

In a message dated 11/13/03 7:50:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:


> One quick stop or turn and SPLASH!
> I have never spilled a drink in my Taurus.

Must be different than the drink holder in our Taurus wagon, "for soft cups 
only." Hit a bump and the flimsy little loop hiccups and drops a can thru to 
the floor. In my D, I lift out the ashtray and just twist it in. No probs so 
far.
Wayne 
11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:04:56 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: New DeLorean owner; first technical question

In a message dated 11/12/03 8:38:03 PM Central Standard Time, 
hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

> Can anyone give me a "guesstimate" of a bill I may be looking at?  Thank 
> you all for your input; I have owned her for 24 hours now to almost the exact 
> minute, and I'm trying to get her roadworthy.  Hopefully, this will be the 
> step that gets her on the road.

You would be much much much better off doing the work yourself by reading the 
manuals and doing appropriate system tests.  I am writing a two-part article 
in Gullwing Magazine about explaining the entire fuel and idle systems, the 
first article is in the next issue to be mailed - not only that, but the shop 
manual explains everything pretty clearly.

why should you do it yourself?
1. you will not save time (well, probably won't) but you WILL save money
2. you will gain important experience and first-hand knowledge of how the car 
works
3. you won't have to worry about your so-far-good shop cutting corners just 
to get it running and out of the bay if they wind up NOT knowing what is wrong.

to service the fuel system, all you need is a fuel system pressure tester 
($90), a multimeter with ohm and DC test, a decent metric tool set with wrenches 
size 8mm - 19mm, similar size sockets w/ 3" and 6" extensions, a 4-6 piece 
screwdriver set, and a set of metric allen wrenches.  a dwell meter ($30) comes 
in handy too, as well as a timing light with advance. 

with all these tools, you should be able to fix whatever is the problem 
yourself.  right away i would check for vacuum leaks and test your fuel system 
pressures.  from there, possibly a problem with the CPR (not hooked up properly) 
or fuel routing.  when you hit the gas, you are either flooding it or choking 
it.  

we are here to help.  you will be much more pleased if you get to the bottom 
of this yourself.  perhaps now that winter is on us, you can decommission the 
car for the season and go through everything yourself?

Andy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:21:21 -0000
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Re: NEC show this weekend past

In a bit of defence of the cars.... I was also there as well and I think
you've over cooked your descriptions.

1. There was actually 4 Deloreans at the show.
2. The Back to the future Car is by far not in bad repair and is a fine
example of the car
3. One the cars had a broken rear screen due to a small accident at the show
and the new screen was put in on Sunday (AT THE SHOW ON SITE)
4 Another of the cars had just come out of a museum and has probable the
best frame and underside I have ever seen,200ish mile and very tidy.
The final car was a "Restoration in Progress" car that if you had seen it
when it first came over from US you would know the vast improvement that ahs
taken place with that car....

You clearly do not fine cars when you see them, An thinking they will be
better just because they are coming from The US you might be very
surprised......

These cars are 22 years old show me a 22 year old ford with no dings or
general ware and tear!!!!!

getting of my soap box now cause its totally out of character for me........

Cheers
Paul
#6463

www.dmc12.tk


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 13 November 2003 18:12
Subject: [DML] Re: NEC show this weekend past


Like any other car make you will find Deloreans in all sorts of
condition. After many years some are in disrepair from age and
incompetant mechanics who use "wrong" parts. Others are just neglected
and stored outside. When a "new' owner gets one they generally try to
improve the condition. Many times they find they are "getting in over
their head" in time and expense so they stop. Here in the US you see
the whole gamut from pristine trailer queens to the ones that you
wonder why they are still running. It gets expensive to get and keep
one in really nice shape. With enough patience and money you can make
even the worst looking one very nice but it is ALWAYS faster and
cheaper to buy the best one you can and then fix it up. Of course it
helps if you are handy and can do much of the labor yourself but not
every owner can do that.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "grimsby_paul" <grimsby_paul_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I went to the show in Birmingham this past weekend to see my first
> DeLorean in person - while it was a thrill to see 3 of them in one
> place, I was a little disappointed in their presentation. One had a
> shattered back window, all the cars had dents and dings all over
> them, and tatty interiors. Not outstanding examples of the marque by
> any stretch of the imagination! Is that all that we've got here? I
> spoke with one youngish person selling parts from the "boot" of a
> DeLorean there and was led to believe that these were fine examples

>
>



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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:33:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: idle flux / stall / pickup line?

No battery light unless it actually stalls. Mostly it just does the
drop/rev/flicker bit.

I still havent installed your new fuel tank baffle assemby. I guess that's next
on  my list of "to-dos" unless my problem is something else besides a faulty
pickup line.

Shannon Y
16506

------


Message: 21
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:29:51 -0800
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: idle flux / stall / pickup line?

Shannon, What is happening to the electrical side when this happens. The
fuel pump is an electric motor. When Your idling and the voltage drops the
fuel pump will slow down and your fuel pressure will drop and go down also.
It may look like a pump/fuel problem, but you said it was ok when you race
up the engine a little. Then voltage also goes up from the alternator and
your ok. Is the battery light coming on. If so then the voltage is dropping
so low the car thinks you have shut it off.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com

>>snip<<

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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:45:46 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: hot start no start

Ed,

THe accelerator depression you are talking about mirrors the carburetor 
flooding problem of older cars.  In order to start a flooded car you had 
to press the gas pedal to the flood to provide a lot of diluting air to 
evaporate the extra gasoline.  

THe question becomes is there something that leaks gas into the intake 
manifold?  






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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:32:39 -0500
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: cup holder

 I have seen several DeLoreans with a marine  / rv folding cup holder attached to the door sill on both passenger and driver sides. Cost $7.95 each. I installed 2 in my car. Easy - 2 screws. A little awkward getting in and out with a tall bottle / can in it. May move them to the side of the centre console. 
Marv.
# 17077
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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