From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1780
Date: Saturday, December 06, 2003 4:09 AM

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There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Door ajar indicator through rear vs front lever light
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. Houston's new ball joints
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

3. XXXL shirts
From: "geek123y" <service_at_dml_techno-concepts.com>

4. Re: Re: Door ajar indicator through rear vs front lever light
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Houston's new ball joints
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

6. RE: Leather Seat Covers
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com

7. Re: Houston's new ball joints
From: MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com

8. Re: Door ajar indicator through rear vs front lever light
From: Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>

9. New DeLorean Parts
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

10. DeLorean Transmission Gears
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com

11. Re: Grammar and details (was: Door ajar indicator)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

12. Re: DeLorean Transmission Gears
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

13. Re: Stand corrected: grounding door ajar indicator through lever light
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

14. DC Area Side Trip (Tucker Museum) Before Mid Atlantic Spring Social
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

15. Re: Grammar and details (was: Door ajar indicator)
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 05:16:45 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Door ajar indicator through rear vs front lever light

Your red line diagram indeed correct for REAR lever light, which is
not diode isolated.

Just re-read Patrick's original post: does NOT state which light he
was flipping. Assumed it was front, but could be rear.

If Patrick in fact flipping rear light, you are correct (would also
work with ground continuing through purple wire junction under console
to hood or engine compartment lights BTW).

If Patrick flipping front light I am correct (that's third diode right
above delay module in wiring diagram).

Re: electricity as diode -- if purple line into door lights was live
your red line diagram would never find a ground after them. This is
the same principle used by those of us with 4 way turn signal mod
(different circuit of course, but same idea).

Re: pulling fuse #12 when doors open -- car usually not energized. Key
could be in accessory position to play radio etc, but NOTE: then makes
no difference whether fuse #12 in place or not! Indicator light will
ground itself through door plungers as usual. Is only a problem if
fuse #12 out *AND* both doors closed *AND* you try to illuminate hood,
rear lever, or engine compartment light.

Re: "would be physically impossible to ground indicator through their
individual grounds WHEN FLIPPED IN THE OTHER DIRECTION" -- you
conveniently removed end of that sentence before replying... Takes
totally out of context! Please show me a 12v circuit that can
physically jump lever light gap when flipped away from its ground. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Here we go again...
> 
> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 06:03:41 -0000, Bill Robertson wrote:
> 
> > Actually pulling fuse #12 is my preferred method of disabling courtesy
> > & door lights whenever doors will be open for more than a couple of
> > minutes. Of course dash indicator doesn't illuminate. Didn't do it for
> > other owners at Mid Atlantic, or anyone at MD tech sessions either.
> 
> I know, I DID state that I had experience with this, didn't I???
> 
> > Dash indicator can't illuminate without juice from somewhere...
> 
> Indicator is fed from fuse #5 and it was
> never said the car was powered up or not.
> Fuse #5 is hot with ignition on.
> 
> > (electricity itself is diode backwards through door lights)
> 
> Read this agian and again... and again... and yet again...
> And still don't understand what you mean.
> How can electricity be a diode??? If you mean that no power can flow
> between two points at the same voltage you're right, but remember
> (read again) that it was specifically stated that #12 is out!
> So no power there!!!
> 
> > But Patrick explicitly stated indicator was responding to lever light:
> 
> If you take a good look at the wiring diagram which I know you have one,
> and you understand what you are looking at, you can clearly see that the
> indicator CAN light through the interior lights. It's simply in series
> with ALL the door-lights AND the light you flip on...
> 
> But because there's 6 lights in the doors in parralel AND a non-lit
> bulb has WAY less resistance, especially with higher wattage bulbs,
> only the low-power indicator lights and the rest does not.
> But is you pull them ALL the indicator will not light
> because the series is interrupted...
> 
> > Lever lights ARE isolated from indicator by a diode.
> 
> No they are not; the diode by the indicator and the diodes under
> the dash are in series, so current can flow there. And because of
> lack of #12 fuse the diodes do NOT block, but are open to current.
> 
> > Even if they weren't, would be physically impossible to ground
> > indicator through their individual grounds when flipped
> 
> Just admit it IS possible; it happens...
> 
> And to make sure you understand:
> <http://members.home.nl/delorean/doorajar.gif>
> 
> The red line shows the path the current takes.
> 
> JAN van de Wouw
> 
> Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
> 
> #05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
> --------------------------------




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:24:45 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Houston's new ball joints

You've all probably seen the notice from Houston regarding the
new, re-engineered lower ball joints. They are also only $25.00 This
comes at a great time because I may have to do mine. (I'm still 
investigating)

I asked James if I'd need the reinforcement collar with theirs. He
stated that I could still have a fit problem if the control arm
deforms. He also told me that Houston doesn't sell a collar kit
because it's a legal liability and a safety issue.

At this point I'm thinking "Why don't I just order a new control arm?"
Ahhhhhh....neither Houston, nor PJ Grady sell them. They -appear-
unavailable.

If I liberated one from a wrecked/parts car, I would likely face the
same issue of metal fatigue and a poor fit so what's the point?

This brings me back to the collar kit. Grady's site makes it seem
like a very simple install. Comes with instructions. How difficult is
it to install this collar? Is it really the big safety issue Houston
claims?

Thanks,

Rich
#5335




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 05:43:16 -0000
From: "geek123y" <service_at_dml_techno-concepts.com>
Subject: XXXL shirts

I was told by someone that I offended some people.

It was not my intention to offend anyone - just comment on
the size of the car, not the size of driver or passenger.

Myself not being a small person, wouldn't have much to say.

Ken






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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:40:24 -0500
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Door ajar indicator through rear vs front lever light

I was using the front light, NOT the rear.  Whatever was wrong had to be in the dash behind the gauges, because when the door ajar light kept going on and off a few days later a good hard bang on the binnacle fixed the problem.  Now the light ONLY comes on when a door is opened (at last!)  The glove box no longer turns on that light, nor does the front interior light.  When I get some time this weekend I plan on taking the binnacle off and seeing just what was making contact back there and was causing problems.  

Patrick
1880  



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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:26:24 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Houston's new ball joints

In a message dated 12/5/03 10:37:52 AM Central Standard Time, 
racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com writes:
At this point I'm thinking "Why don't I just order a new control arm?"
Ahhhhhh....neither Houston, nor PJ Grady sell them. They -appear-
unavailable.
Upper and Lower control arms are available in stainless steel from pearce 
design components.  spendy though!!

Another option would be to get the arms you have to a machine shop and have 
them evaluate the arms.  they could possibly fix it or reinforce it.  unless 
they are really messed up, i should think a good machine or suspension shop 
could give you economical choices, or at the very least tell you if they are 
beyond repair.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:19:11 -0500
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: RE: Leather Seat Covers

I purchased a set of Gray leathers from the guy over in England too. They are beautiful.

Sincerely,
Michael Pack


Tom Watkins <dmctom_at_dml_earthlink.net> wrote:

>List,
>
>The following EBAY auction for full set of seat covers is underway.   I 
>bought a set from these people and and VERY happy with the purchase. 
> They are fine upstanding folks who ship fast.  If you need covers grab 
>these!!  They also have black ones available.  If your hesitant about 
>the overseas shipping....don't be.  \



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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:45:56 -0600
From: MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com
Subject: Re: Houston's new ball joints

The control arms are available... better than NOS remanufactured control
arms are available from Pearce Design Components, see link below.

http://www.pearce-design.com/

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Soma576_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Houston's new ball joints


> In a message dated 12/5/03 10:37:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com writes:
> At this point I'm thinking "Why don't I just order a new control arm?"
> Ahhhhhh....neither Houston, nor PJ Grady sell them. They -appear-
> unavailable.
> Upper and Lower control arms are available in stainless steel from pearce
> design components.  spendy though!!



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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:09:37 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Door ajar indicator through rear vs front lever light

--- In dmcnews, Bill wrote:

> If Patrick flipping front light I am correct (that's third
> diode right above delay module in wiring diagram).

No you are NOT; This time with a green line...
<http://members.home.nl/delorean/doorajar_front.gif>

The purpose of the diode you mention is to keep the
door-lights separate from the interior lights,
so the delay only delays the interiors.
The diode is conected to BOTH lights, there's wiring
running "down" to the rear light past the delay,
the "loop" to its' left in the diagram.

> Re: electricity as diode -- if purple line into door lights was live
> your red line diagram would never find a ground after them.

Yes, correct, but this all started because of a missing #12 fuse,
so your argumentation holds no gound here... It was me who said
to put the #12 fuse back in to solve Patricks "problem".

He says he fixed it by banging the binnacle,
I wouldn't be surprised if the problem re-occurs soon.

> Re: "would be physically impossible to ground indicator through their
> individual grounds WHEN FLIPPED IN THE OTHER DIRECTION" --
> you conveniently removed end of that sentence before replying...
> Takes totally out of context!

Yes, I DID snip that out, just for the simple reason that
I could not undertand what you were talking about.

Please everyone, remember that there are many people on this list
that do NOT have English as their first language and reading
"blurbs" can make it VERY hard to understand what is being written...
My first language is Dutch, not English, but I dare say that my
English is above avarage for a Dutchman. Yet regularly have trouble
understanding what's written, especially when the propper grammar
isn't used. As Grammar in Dutch and several other languages work
totally different it can be VERY hard to understand English that's
not using the gramar you're used to see in this language...

I now understand what Bill meant and agree that with the lights
in "door-mode" this situation cannot occur through the interior
lights, however everything stays within context, because this
discussion started when someone asked why the indicator came on
when he FLIPPED the light it didn't say which direction at all...

I'm sure this thread will be closed after this post,
now at least the correct info is out there...

I rest my case, everyone have a nice weekend!

JAN van de Wouw
 
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
 
#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
--------------------------------




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:58:00 -0800
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: New DeLorean Parts

I was contacted by a fellow who is selling some new old stock DeLorean
parts. To be specific he has:

Two front and one rear wheel which are of the middle series style, light
silver with the spokes at the center raised higher than the later models.

One new front air dam, a grill, and various hoses and clamps.

I don't know him beyond the email correspondence but he did send pictures of
everything and they're obviously new old stock. If you have an interest his
email address is drkcoke(at)core.com.

Bruce Benson




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 19:27:00 -0500
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: DeLorean Transmission Gears


What is necessary for a rebuild of the DeLorean 5-speed transmission? 

I was given a 1989 Lotus Esprit 5-speed transmission. I would like to switch the DMC (renault) gears for the Lotus (renault) gears. The transmissions are identical, and both 5-speeds are from Renault.

Any input from all of you would help. Any thoughts on what the different gear ratios would do to the PRV, especially the Houston PRV?

Sincerely,
Michael Pack



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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 02:04:25 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Grammar and details (was: Door ajar indicator)

Jan makes an important point and I would like to elaborate a little on
Jan's point about written English grammar and lack of details in posts.
I will be the first to admit that I am not the best speller in the world,
however I do try to clarify my ideas and thoughts when I post them.

I regularly correspond via email with many DML members who do not
speak or write English as their first language and they appreciate the
extra effort I make to clarify topics and minimizing slang or blurbs, but
when I do use slang terms, I set off the terms with quotation marks.

I am not trying to slam anyone on their writing style, but it does get
confusing when people leave out words (for some reason), whether
it is to limit their typing or maybe this is just the way they would tell
someone their idea if they were speaking to them (not writing to them). 
This is not Western Union where you drop words so it costs less to
send the message, so please put necessary pronouns in the posts.

As for details, it really helps to think before you post and include as
many details as possible.  If you post a problem in which you may 
need hands on assistance, please list where you are located, since
many may be able to help, but if you are in the US on the east coast
and need help this weekend, it is best to at least let the DML know
you are located near Pigeon Forge, TN (example) so potential helpers
know in advance whether or not to post an offer to assist you.  I have
even seen this detail info left out of a lot of Delorean For Sale ads,
which I would consider very important when considering a purchase.
(remember to post your Delorean For Sale ads on DMCNews website)

The DML is still by far the best Internet resource for both the Delorean
owner and enthusiast to get accurate and helpful Delorean information.

Everyone keep up the good work.

Later,
Rich W.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_h...> wrote:

> Please everyone, remember that there are many people on this list
> that do NOT have English as their first language and reading
> "blurbs" can make it VERY hard to understand what is being written...
> My first language is Dutch, not English, but I dare say that my
> English is above avarage for a Dutchman. Yet regularly have trouble
> understanding what's written, especially when the propper grammar
> isn't used. As Grammar in Dutch and several other languages work
> totally different it can be VERY hard to understand English that's
> not using the gramar you're used to see in this language...
> 
> snip <
> 
> JAN van de Wouw
>  
> Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
>  
> #05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
> --------------------------------




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:47:53 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Transmission Gears

I've done several of them. A basic "rebuild" consists of opening it 
up, cleaning, and replacing seals. You may also need to replace one 
of the rollpins that move the shft forks. 

You need the two paper gaskets, o-rings for the side flanges and the 
input shaft tube, the input shaft tube seal, and a tube of anerobic 
sealant. And a gallon of gear oil. All this adds up to under $100. 
I've pulled a trans, "rebuilt" and re-installed in a long day with 
some help. These things are actually very strong. The bearings seem 
to hold up very well.  

The manual is very accurate on the process with one or two 
exceptions, the main one being that the illustrations show the ring 
gear installed backwards (5 speeds in reverse, anyone?). Best to take 
pictures. 

The only special tool you need is a rig to hold the transmission 
still (i.e. not rolling across the floor) and a couple of rather 
large sockets to loosen and the re-torque the large mainshaft nuts. 
One is 32 MM, the other is slightly smaller (the size escapes me at 
the moment). Torque on these is 125 pounds, and the breakaway torque 
is a lot more. I use my door adjusting cheater bar to undo the shaft 
nuts. It's also good to buy replacment nuts, sometimes they break 
where they are staked over the end. 

Now for the complex part. 

Is the Lotus case different enough that you can't just swap in the 
whole thing? If you are only trying to swap in the ring and pinion, 
things get a lot more complicated. To get the ring gear off the 
carrier you have to remove one of the bearings (hydraulic press). To 
get the gears off the pinion shaft, there's a complex process 
involving heating up the parts and using a press. 

Stock DeLorean axle ratio is 3.44:1. A 3:8 or so gear in this car 
would make a huge difference. A 4:10 gear would really be a neck-
snapper but would limit your cruising ability - 5th gear would be 
about like your original 4th gear so the car would be pretty noisy 
and inefficient in highway driving. 

A couple of benchmarks - stock is 2800 RPM at 70 mph in 5th. 3.8 
would be 3120, 4:10 would be 3700. Ouch. 

Dave S



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, MichaelRPack1_at_dml_c... wrote:
> 
> What is necessary for a rebuild of the DeLorean 5-speed 
transmission? 
> 
> I was given a 1989 Lotus Esprit 5-speed transmission. I would like 
to switch the DMC (renault) gears for the Lotus (renault) gears. The 
transmissions are identical, and both 5-speeds are from Renault.
> 
> Any input from all of you would help. Any thoughts on what the 
different gear ratios would do to the PRV, especially the Houston PRV?
> 
> Sincerely,
> Michael Pack




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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:43:18 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Stand corrected: grounding door ajar indicator through lever light

I stand corrected. Obviously if indicator can ground itself through
hood or engine compartment lights, can do so through front lever light
too. Don't know where brain was.

Doors will have to be closed, accessory relay will have to be
energized, and fuse 12 will have to be dead. Odd circumstances, but
definitely possible.

Of course lights themselves won't illuminate this way.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews, Bill wrote:
> 
> > If Patrick flipping front light I am correct (that's third
> > diode right above delay module in wiring diagram).
> 
> No you are NOT; This time with a green line...
> <http://members.home.nl/delorean/doorajar_front.gif>
> 
> The purpose of the diode you mention is to keep the
> door-lights separate from the interior lights,
> so the delay only delays the interiors.
> The diode is conected to BOTH lights, there's wiring
> running "down" to the rear light past the delay,
> the "loop" to its' left in the diagram.
>



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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:34:33 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: DC Area Side Trip (Tucker Museum) Before Mid Atlantic Spring Social

Plans taking shape among owners passing through DC on way to Mid
Atlantic Spring Social 2004 to add following side trip:

Is a Tucker museum in close DC suburb (Alexandria VA) with 3 restored
cars. We'd very much like to visit it while in the area.

Is all *VERY* tentative at this point, but early plan appears to be:

Thursday
-Carolina owners caravan to DC after work/school.
-Other out of state owners make way to DC if they want to join museum 
visit (Carolina caravan can move as far west as I-85 if that helps).
-Some owners ALREADY in DC area (lucky schmucks).

Friday
-Visit Tucker museum during day.
-Social at owner Mike Pack's house afterwards (has concours DeLo BTW)
-Are 1001 other things to do in Nation's Capital if people still have
energy...

Saturday
-People attending Mid Atlantic Spring Social caravan to Westwood NJ
(expected location) -- 250 more miles!

If anyone on List wants to join us for either Tucker museum visit or
caravan to Spring Social, please consider this an open invite (Mid
Atlantic owners could come down to DC then join caravan back to own
social). 

Of course actual date will be determined by whatever weekend Spring
Social is held.

*** Special thanks to Mike Pack, who knows Tucker owner personally,
for coordinating not only this side trip, but a DC area social too!
Needless to say:
-RSVP's are in order as April gets closer
-A hat should be passed to reimburse Mike for all expenses
-Some owners will already have 500 plus miles behind them at this
point -- let's keep Friday social INFORMAL

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:59:54 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Grammar and details (was: Door ajar indicator)

You bring up a very good point. Since most of us are in the US we tend
to forget that the audience is worldwide and international. Most of
our ramblings might not make sense to someone not familiar with all of
the terms and abreviations, and slang. The written word does not
convey enough information all the time to include the nuances most of
us take for granted especially when a non-native Engish speaker tries
to read it. This is compounded by a lack of knowledge of all the
proper terms by non-mechanics. I guess you just have to say we are all
doing the best we can and everyone should try to remember there are
people out there trying to understand this but it isn't in their
native language. Typos and mispelling only add to the confusion. Once
you hit "SEND" it is too late to fix it! 
 The Americans and British are two peoples separated by a common
language! If we can't understand each other it must be really hard for
everyone else! Of course if anyone doesn't understand a post they can
always ask for a clarifacation. Misinformation or incorrect
information is usually pointed out pretty quickly.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> Jan makes an important point and I would like to elaborate a little on
> Jan's point about written English grammar and lack of details in posts.
> I will be the first to admit that I am not the best speller in the
world,
> however I do try to clarify my ideas and thoughts when I post them.
> 
> I-----------------------




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