From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1785
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:23 AM

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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

2. Re: Holiday cards
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

3. Re: sandblasting
From: "Stephen Card" <stephen_at_dml_procomroofing.com>

4. Re: sandblasting coolant pipes
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. Re: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: sandblasting
From: "jamesrguk" <James_rg_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?
From: "Jerry Harry" <jlharry_at_dml_mcloudteleco.com>

9. Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>

10. Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

11. Speedo cable already sold
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>

12. Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

13. Squishy Brakes.
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

14. Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>

15. A thought about SS clutch line replacement
From: "Nick Kemp" <nkemp_at_dml_bwig.net>

16. Re: HOLE
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

17. Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

18. sandblasting coolant pipes
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

19. Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

20. DML problems
From: Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

21. RE: Squishy Brakes.
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:13:00 -0500
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement

> So here goes...  It was my understanding that the clutch line 
> connects from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder, and that 
> the slave cylinder can only be accessed while the transaxle is out.  

Not true at all.... I replaced both my master and slave cylinders without
removing the transaxle.

> On a related note, the drain plug bolt on the bottom driver-side of 
> my transaxle looks 'moist.'  There is no puddle formed, even after 
> sitting in the same place for 4 months, but it has a wet look to 
> it.  What could this mean?  The liquid feels oily and clear color.  

personal guess is there is a weeping leak - enough to make it wet but not enough
to drip... I would get something and clean it off really well and see if the
moisture returns.

just my $.02

regards,

Michael
vin 6067



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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:16:49 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Holiday cards

The remaining cards have been shipped (today). Some went first class, 
some priority depending on how many there were in the order. I went 
for cheap since at this price there really wansn't much margin. If 
you contacted me and never heard back something went wrong. There are 
a couple sets left but it would be hard to get them out in time for 
Christmas at this point. If you did contact me, heard back, and 
haven't paid yet, please do. Or Bad Things Will Happen. 

Dave (swingle(AT)dmcnews.com)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, James Espey <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> The correct size envelope cards for the holiday cards is an A7 
(5.25 x 
> 7.25) - usually can be found from a "printer's supply" company like 




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:34:19 -0000
From: "Stephen Card" <stephen_at_dml_procomroofing.com>
Subject: Re: sandblasting

Check out www.tptools.com, they have alot of items (multiple blast 
cabinets, blast media, as well as POR 15)that could be 
helpful in keeping the cars in great shape.  Just be careful with 
the type of blast media you use on the aluminum. The wrong kind can 
quickly ruin what you may be trying to save.
Stephen
Vin 3601

Is there a tool or sandblasting system you can buy retail to do this 
yourself? As part of our ongoing  restorations of these cars it 
would be nice to clean and sandblast parts as we need to make 
repairs...
> 
> Mike C




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:42:35 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: sandblasting coolant pipes

Another alternative is 1.25" stainless steel tubing mandrel bent at a
muffler shop. Otterstat bung and coolant expansion tee would have to
be welded on. Instead of hose barbs would probably end up with flared
or expanded ends -- equally effective seal. Advantage would be ability
to replace multiple factory sections with contiguous pipe, especially
eliminating junction under closing plate.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, billsfanmd_at_dml_a... wrote:
> After seeing a few of the coolant pipes on ebay that have been
sandblasted I was wondering how much is involved to actually do this
yourself? Is there a tool or sandblasting system you can buy retail to
do this yourself? As part of our ongoing  restorations of these cars
it would be nice to clean and sandblast parts as we need to make
repairs...
> 
> Mike C




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:20:30 EST
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?

Shannon W. pointed me to the Water Leak service bulletin on DMCNews.com.   It 
looks extremely helpful.   By the way, I took the carpets out and dried them 
for a few days and even used a hair dryer to make sure they were totally dry 
before I put them back in.   My project next weekend is to caulk in the spaces 
the Service Bulletin suggests.   Does anyone else have any tips on what to 
caulk that is not mentioned in the service bulletin?   Any personal experiences?

Patrick
1880


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:48:53 -0000
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?

It's actually Service Bulletin ST-33-12/81 and it's available in PDF
format on the DMCNews tech page (see the Frame/Body section).

Aaron
#1506


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> There was a service bulletin issued by DMC on sealing body leaks. You
> can buy it from the Delorean venders.



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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:27:33 -0000
From: "jamesrguk" <James_rg_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: sandblasting

Mike,

Often on eBay you can actually get what looks like a spray gun 
attachment with a ceramic nozzle and instead of paint in the pot, 
yep you guessed it, it's sand.

I've never used one but I did think about getting one, as they're 
quite cheap.

See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=2365513159&category=22664

But it you haven't already got a compressor you might as well send 
them somewhere to have them done, it would probably be cheaper. 

Aslo if you put in some elbow grease, wet'n'dry sandpaper will bring 
those pipes up nicely, then I suppose you have to lacquer them.

James RG 
UK

> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, billsfanmd_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > After seeing a few of the coolant pipes on ebay that have been
> sandblasted I was wondering how much is involved to actually do 
this
> yourself? Is there a tool or sandblasting system you can buy 
retail to
> do this yourself? As part of our ongoing  restorations of these 
cars
> it would be nice to clean and sandblast parts as we need to make
> repairs...
> > 
> > Mike C




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:49:15 -0600
From: "Jerry Harry" <jlharry_at_dml_mcloudteleco.com>
Subject: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?

Patrick;
Just a reminder, park it level ! If either side is high then the water will
not run off the outer side of  the high side door, it will run to the center
on the high side, over come the ridge  and run into the car. It hits just
about on the center console.  That ridge is only about one inch high so it
doesn't have to be very tilted to change the direction that the water runs.
The water comes in around the top door seals and run out just fine as long
as the car is level.
Another thing to do for sure is to clean out the fresh air inlet on the
rider side outside at the windshield.  This is a large hole that has a small
drain hole in the bottom which can get plugged very easy. One leaf will do
it. If this hold does not drain it will fill fast in a rain and let water
come into the passages side of the car.  I have placed a screen wire over
the top of this hole under the leaf guard to protect this hole. It just must
not get plugged again, my carpet can not stand another wetting.
Good luck
Yours in the hobby
JL Harry
vin: 4890





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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:50:24 -0000
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement

--- Matt wrote:

> So here goes...  It was my understanding that the
> clutch line  connects from the master cylinder to
> the slave cylinder, and that  the slave cylinder can
> only be accessed while the transaxle is out.
> Does this mean to replace the old plastic clutch
> line, the transaxle  must come out??? 

I swapped my clutch a few months ago and as far 
as I can remember this is not nessecary... If you want 
to swap out the slave it would be handy to be able to 
reach everything, but even then I don't think it's a "must do".

The clutch-line connects to a fitting on top of the tranny that
CAN be reached with every thing in place, it's just a bit of a 
hassle and  an "open box wrench" is IMHO most handy
to get the connection loose. 
By "open box wrench" I mean a box wrench with a slot in
it at the top, so you are able to slip it over a pipe, an open
wrench won't give you enough turning space under there.
Something like the bottom one in this pic:
<http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/MechanicalPropulsion/St
uffingBoxWrenches/adaptedWrenches.jpg>

If you feel you can't reach in there enough, you COULD 
diconnect the forward tranny mounts, but then you'd have 
to have a jack under the car to support the tranny.
And the jack would then be in your way...

Good luck,

Jan van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
--------------------------------






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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:59:41 -0500
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement

In a message dated 12/9/2003 3:16:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu writes:

> 
> So here goes...  It was my understanding that the clutch line 
> connects from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder, and that 
> the slave cylinder can only be accessed while the transaxle is out.  
> Does this mean to replace the old plastic clutch line, the transaxle 
> must come out???  The slave cylinder on my car was replaced just 
> prior to my ownership so I'm not concerned about it at this 
> time.


Not at all. the clutch line is easily removed all by itself.

Andy



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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:53:24 -0000
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Speedo cable already sold


The upper speedo cable has just been sold for 8 to a friend who needs it
for his Red DeLorean.  Only 23 other items left of which 6 are DeLorean
related.

For a total list of the 23 items follow:-
http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=chris-von-bron&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

Chris Hawes
UK
vin 5255




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:07:16 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?

Water leaks in the D are a problem once in a while. However, that 
rear window is probably a bad replacement problem. A door adjustment 
gone bad (didn't use the correct tool) is a common cause of rear 
window breakage. It is unlikely that the original rear window came 
loose from the bottom. The rear window was probably replaced and not 
done correctly. All this means is - the rear window should be check 
and a professional install done. Push out from inside the car on the 
top of the rear window while someone outside supports the window - I 
would bet it comes loose and falls out.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, PRC1216_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hey All.
> I took my D on its first long trip over Thanksgiving (longest trip 
since I have owned it).  It rained for a full day on the car in the 
parking lot, and when I went out to check on it after 10 hours of 
constant drizzle, I reached and felt under the carpet where your 
feet go and it was SOAKED underneath.



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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:55:24 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Squishy Brakes.

Last August, I replaced my Brake Master Cylinder, and also flushed the entire 
hydraulic system with Castrol GTLMA (as stated in a previous post). And everything 
has been fine since then.

Until last week...

I was going about 90mph or so, and had to slow down rather quickly to almost a 
stop. I didn't "slam" the pedal at all, but did press a bit firmer than normal to slow 
quicker than normal, in a shorter distance. Car slowed down fine, and performed 
great. However, when I got out, I could smell that the brakes had overheated a bit, 
from the stench of burning asbestos. Ever since then though, my brakes have been 
"squishy". The pedal doesn't catch until it's about 2/3's of the way down. But if I 
double-pump the pedal rapidly, it will catch about a quarter of the way down. A quick 
inspection shows no leaks in the system, and the fluid level in the reservoir is fine, 
being only slightly down from when I last topped it off in August, as I would expect 
(although the cap itself appeared to be wet on top).

I'm at a loss here as to what may have happened, except that perhaps I've boiled the 
fluid, and made it compressable, or something has happened to the Brake M/C, 
although it is less than 5 months fresh in the car. And I wouldn't think this to be an 
issue with the brake booster, because it's not as though the pedal has become 
harder. And while Castrol says that GTLMA is supposed to have a higher boiling point 
than "regular brake fluids", they don't say what it is on their web site. Plus I doubt 
that the fuild is that "wet", since it's exposure was kept to a minimal durring 18% 
humidity in the air. But even with 20 year old DOT 4 in the system, the brakes were 
NEVER this bad, and especially so sudddenly.

Ideas?

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:03:50 -0000
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_p...>
wrote:
> I recently purchased the SS clutch line and while reading through 
> the archives I thought of something. 
> Does this mean to replace the old plastic clutch line, the
transaxle must come out??? 



   Nope, don't worry about it.  When you get your car home, put it up on
jack-stands, crawl under there and you will see that installing the
SS clutch line is a lot easier than you thought.  It's true that the
slave is not the easiest part to reach, but that doesn't matter
because  you don't have to.  Unless the P.O. (previous owner) screwed
around with it, there will be a tube connecting the slave cylinder to
a fitting mounted below and forward of the slave where you can easily
reach.  This is where the other end of the SS line connects to, not
the slave itself.  You will know what I'm talking about when you see
it.  Hope this helps.

Richard Rowe
vin5853




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:36:48 -0600
From: "Nick Kemp" <nkemp_at_dml_bwig.net>
Subject: A thought about SS clutch line replacement

The SS braided clutch line is relatively abrasive.  As the car vibrates from
normal operation, the SS clutch line could machine its way through the epoxy
coating.  Once through rust WILL follow.

My recommendation is to either:
- Sleeve the clutch line before installation
- Sleeve it as required at points where it could wear through

Just some thoughts...

Nick Kemp




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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:37:41 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: HOLE

Is that a particularly early car? I'd heard that some cars actually 
had hole around there to make the ventilation system work but it was 
eliminated later due to potential for water leaks (and noise). Since 
you're in there I'd probably seal it up w/ fiberglass. What you see 
thru the hole is the back of your speaker....

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> what is this hole for?
> 
> Look in the photo album for the folder called "hole".
> 
> Mark




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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:35:33 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement

>From under the car (or from above if you know where to look and/or 
take the engine cover off) find the slave cylinder. On the end of it 
that faces toward the front of the car there's a rubber boot that the 
pin for the clutch fork comes through. 

Peel back the rubber boot slightly from the body of the slave 
cylinder. If any fluid runs out you need to replce the cylinder. It 
can leak quite a bit (about a tablespoon) into the boot before it 
runs out on the floor (and removes the epoxy from the frame under the 
bellhousing).

Regarding the drain plug - that drip can either be clutch fluid 
(brake fluid) OR can be transmission oil. Careful with that drain 
plug, it is fairly easy to strip the threads in the aluminum housing. 
It's holding in about a gallon of 90-wt oil.  

Slave clyinder can be changed with the trans in the car from 
underneath. Pain in the neck, easier on a lift but not manadatory.

Dave S <--about 3 threads left on the trans drain plug hole - 
helicoil at the next service....

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> > So here goes...  It was my understanding that the clutch line 
> > connects from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder, and that 
> > the slave cylinder can only be accessed while the transaxle is 
out.  
> 
> Not true at all.... I replaced both my master and slave cylinders 
without
> removing the transaxle.
> 
> > On a related note, the drain plug bolt on the bottom driver-side 
of 
> > my transaxle looks 'moist.'  There is no puddle formed, even 
after 
> > sitting in the same place for 4 months, but it has a wet look to 
> > it.  What could this mean?  The liquid feels oily and clear 
color.  
> 
> personal guess is there is a weeping leak - enough to make it wet 
but not enough
> to drip... I would get something and clean it off really well and 
see if the
> moisture returns.




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:11:42 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: sandblasting coolant pipes

The pipes you saw on E-bay are mine and yes they are sandblasted.  The old 
pipes usually look very discolored and as you all know I like nice shiny pieces. 
 The pipes can be clear coated and that will make them last longer or if left 
they will eventually start to oxidize again.  A silicone spray does hold them 
but I doubt anyone will want to do that to often.

I do much of my own sandblasting but these were done in a bulk batch.

They really look nice and as you noted are on sale on e-bay at this point.

I only have the one set for sale so when they are gone they are gone.

This was written to answer all the e-mails I got on it asking if I was the 
one that did the sandblasting.

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:22:51 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?

On the contrary, if it is a very early early car, say under VIN 2000, 
it is highly LIKELY that the rear window was never sealed properly. 
We see it quite frequently that an early car will seem to have a lot 
of engine noise in the passenger compartment, and in nearly 100% of 
the cases, it is a result of a rear window that was never properly 
installed at the factory. Gently push at the bottom of the rear 
window from the inside and you can feel it move/hear the noise louder.

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
Get the new DeLorean t-shirt for your wife...
http://www.delorean.com/12Days/Day2.asp

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> 
wrote:
> It is unlikely that the original rear window came 
> loose from the bottom. The rear window was probably replaced and 
not 
> done correctly. All this means is - the rear window should be check 
> and a professional install done. 




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:42:23 -0600
From: Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: DML problems


 I just received an email from a fellow DML member calling me a !$_at_dml_HOLE 
for leaving my car outside to let some snow get on it.

I have a picture on my Yahoo photo website if you would like to see my 
car covered in snow.

I know there are other members on this list and other lists that also 
drive there car in the snow, mud, salt, sand and put there car through 
much more severe conditions i let my car sit out for two days in the 
snow. The reason my car was outside for two days was i needed the 
garage for repairing my winter beater, it snowed so i snapped a picture 
of it.

The fact is there is no reason to send harassing and name calling 
emails to any of the DML members.

I would hate for this member to send you an email like the one i 
received.

Thank you
Mark and 6683

Come see all of my Photo's at my Website.
http://photos.yahoo.com/snextime




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:11:55 -0800
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Squishy Brakes.

Robert,
Now that Special T is rebuilding brake calipers were learning more about
them. If the system is full of fluid and all the air is out,  then the only
place the fluid can go is between the outer seal that attaches to the
piston. It won't hold very much but if the seal is tight and the clip ring
is in place, then fluid can go there. Then the other thing that could happen
is the old rubber lines are swelling and not as stable as the new Stainless
Steel Teflon lines. Then you have the fluid that passes buy the plunger in
the master cylinder like the clutch when you step on the brakes.
Most of those are a real mess. You might want to check it. You should be
able to step on the brakes and the pedal hold.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: therealdmcvegas [mailto:DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com]
Subject: [DML] Squishy Brakes.


Last August, I replaced my Brake Master Cylinder, and also flushed the
entire hydraulic system with Castrol GTLMA (as stated in a previous post). And
everything has been fine since then.

Until last week...

 Car slowed down fine, and performed great. However, when I got out, I could smell that the brakes had overheated a bit, from the stench of burning asbestos. Ever since then though, my brakes have been "squishy". The pedal doesn't catch until it's about 2/3's of the way down.



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