From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1786
Date: Friday, December 12, 2003 5:40 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

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To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Head gasket replacement article, new and improved!
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

2. RE: sandblasting coolant pipes
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com

3. DML problems
From: Holler <thehauntfactory_at_dml_att.net>

4. Re: DML problems
From: "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com>

5. Re: Re: HOLE
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: DML problems
From: "giesel" <marcus_at_dml_forsberg.se>

7. Re: sandblasting coolant pipes
From: Michael T Twigger <marktwigger_at_dml_juno.com>

8. Re: Squishy Brakes.
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

9. Re: Squishy Brakes.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: DML problems
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

11. RE: Squishy Brakes.
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>

12. No Power
From: John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Re: HOLE
From: Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

14. RE: sandblasting coolant pipes
From: "Nick Kemp" <nkemp_at_dml_bwig.net>

15. D Rex on WGN TV Chicago, Dec. 12, 2003
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

16. Re: Speedometer Recalibration - UPDATE - CONCLUSION
From: "videobob11" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

17. Re: No Power
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

18. Two schools of DeLo thought
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

19. Re: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

20. Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:31:56 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Head gasket replacement article, new and improved!

The revised article complete with sketches and photos is posted in 
the DML. Check it out!

Special thanks to Dave Swingle for fixing my HTML glitches and 
letting me contribute.

Rich A.




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:14:35 -0500
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: RE: sandblasting coolant pipes

I sandblasted my pipes and sent them to JET-HOT ceramic coatings in Arizona. 

www.jethot.com

Sincerely,
Michael Pack

kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>The pipes you saw on E-bay are mine and yes they are sandblasted.  The old 
>pipes usually look very discolored and as you all know I like nice shiny pieces. The pipes can be clear coated and that will make them last longer or if left they will eventually start to oxidize again.



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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:41:34 -0500
From: Holler <thehauntfactory_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: DML problems

Hey Mark and all,
I got a kick out of the pictures!  Thanks for posting it!  (I especially
liked the way you carefully cleared the snow away from the front emblem,
to verify that it IS a DeLorean under all that white stuff! :-)
If any other listers haven't checked out the link, please see it.  Nice
before and after snow pictures.
Don't let the turkeys get you down!
-If only personal 'imbalances' were as easy to correct as tires. . .
Oliver Holler
#10694


 Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: DML problems
>I just received an email from a fellow DML member calling me a !$_at_dml_HOLE 
for leaving my car outside to let some snow get on it.



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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:35:17 -0800
From: "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com>
Subject: Re: DML problems

I just want to say that this is truly sad and I'm sorry you were shown
disrespect when you so obviously love your DeLorean.  Now I'm a person who
loves my DeLorean to a somehwat obsessive state.  Yet she is also my daily
driver, meaning I'll take her out even in the worst Oregon rain.  Is this
considered abuse?  Does not the very fact that it was designed with
windshield wipers suggest the car was built to handle inclement weather?  I
don't believe that a couple days in the snow would ever do any damage to
your car.  Honestly I thought the pictures were kind of cool.  Sort of
beauty of machine meets splendor of nature.  I hope you won't consder this a
"DML problem" and see that it's just one person.  There are many people on
here who can see you truly care about your car.

payne




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:26:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: HOLE

Interesting.  My VIN is 02650 and I have the holes
behind the speakers.  I'd thought they were rather
odd, but never gave them much thought.  It's
interesting to hear that the holes were done away with
in later models.  Might be closing them up on mine
(for the noise/leak reason).  Thanks Dave.



=====
Steve

VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
www.projectdelorean.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:47:26 -0000
From: "giesel" <marcus_at_dml_forsberg.se>
Subject: Re: DML problems

 ( Moderators Note - With this reply we will end the thread concerning the "DML Problems" with private e-mail about leaving a D out in the snow. Marty, this weeks moderator) 






   Hello, I think Itīs cool that our cars are in use all year and itīs really
up to the owner to decide what to do with it. I would never drive my D in salt but as far as I know is snow quite much like water..... And I think our Deloreans can stand a little water ....  ;)

I know a guy here in Sweden who drives all year and of course there is so
much rust on it... But thats because we (sadly) use a lot of salt on our roads.

/Marcus
Vin 3044




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:43:20 -0500
From: Michael T Twigger <marktwigger_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: sandblasting coolant pipes

I just use Mothers metal polish works great and shines
for months

And on the subject of the SS clutch line. Thanks for pointing
that out. I took a look and it has rubbed the epoxy down
to bear metal. Other than where the line drops down and goes buy the
fuel tank is there any other ideas it could of effected?

Mark T



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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:45:22 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Squishy Brakes.

Could be air in the system and a quick bleed can verify that. 
However, all that braking probably wore the pads down and the 
pistons that would move slid out to the proper distance. There is 
probably one, or more, stuck or sticking pistons that are not moving 
out properly as the pads ware. Is there a pull to the brakes? Pop 
the wheels and check for pad wear. The one(s) with the least wear is 
your problem. You might try a panic stop push on the brake pedal 
(while parked of course) to see if the pistons will set themselves 
for a while - if they do the pedal will come up and be firm for a 
short while. If the calipers have never been rebuilt - then they are 
due.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> 
wrote:
> Last August, I replaced my Brake Master Cylinder, and also flushed 
the entire hydraulic system with Castrol GTLMA (as stated in a previous 
post). And everything has been fine since then.
> 
> Until last week...



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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:38:01 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Squishy Brakes.

My guess is that you didn't flush all of the old fluid out and there
is still some moisture (water) in the system. When you did that hard
stop you boiled it and when it boiled it created pressure in the
system that dragged the brakes. Now it is "squeshy" because of the
moisture and air in the system. Try flushing again. Remove at least a
pint from each caliper. Look at it and if it is not clear or there are
particles of dirt or air bubbles, keep flushing. Use the proper
bleeding procedure so you don't draw any air back into the system as
you flush and bleed. While flushing do a more though inspection of
each caliper. If you see any wetness then the piston seal is leaking
and that means the piston and caliper are corroded inside. The only
cure is to replace or rebuild. If any one caliper is corroded then you
should do ALL of them. You should also do the clutch system if you
have a 5-speed. The owner's manual says that the fluid is supposed to
be flushed out every 2 years. DOT 4 is a spec and for any brake fluid
to meet that spec it has to resist boiling to that temperature (I
don't know off-hand what the spec is). Chances are if this was the
first time in 20 years the system was flushed and you already had to
do the master cylinder you will need to do all 4 calipers. Don't skimp
on the brakes, this is one system, like steering, that you must be
able to trust.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757  


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> Last August, I replaced my Brake Master Cylinder, and also flushed
the entire 
> hydraulic system with Castrol GTLMA (as stated in a previous post).
And everything 
> has been fine since then.
> 
> Until last week...
> 





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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:16:22 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: DML problems

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
>  I just received an email from a fellow DML member calling me a !$_at_dml_HOLE 
> for leaving my car outside to let some snow get on it.
<SNIP>
> The fact is there is no reason to send harassing and name calling 
> emails to any of the DML members.
> 
> I would hate for this member to send you an email like the one i 
> received.
> 
> Thank you
> Mark and 6683

Hell, a little snow isn't going to really do any harm (although I have always 
wondered about the extra weight on the bonnet & louvers). And I've driven my 
DeLorean in worse: Snow, salt, rain, flood water, sand storms, grated roads, 
unmaintained rough roads,  sidewalk (long story), a chemical waste spill, and 
treated waste water at one point. And once I even gave someone a lawn job 
with my car by accident.

But before I get too sidetracked here... I wouldn't worry about it. A long time 
ago, Dave Stragand was mentioning somthing on the list here about how he 
was catching flack from someone that he was doing wrong by his car. And if 
you check out his message boards, you can see one such negative message.

In the end though, I wouldn't worry about it. It's probably just someone trolling 
you. Ignore them. Besides, if you really want to address a DML problem, it 
should be Yahoo's lousy coding of their text submission forms. Without failure, 
it will randomly refuse to perform Word Wrapping, and will screw up mine, and 
other people's posts. It breaks up both sentances, paragraphs, and 
ESPECIALLY URLs when posted. Very noticeable on the long ones, like 
eBay auctions for instance. That's more of a problem than a simple flamer 
trying to start an arguement. Which is pretty rare here anyways.

Don't sweat it, cause this type of person is definetly NOT a majority on the list.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:11:35 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: Squishy Brakes.

Try bleeding the brakes again.  Make sure that you flush all of the "old"
fluid out so that you are sure that there is not air, water or other
contaminates in the system.  I would try this first before I started
replacing any components.

-----Original Message-----
From: therealdmcvegas [mailto:DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com] 
Subject: [DML] Squishy Brakes.


Last August, I replaced my Brake Master Cylinder, and also flushed the
entire 
hydraulic system with Castrol GTLMA (as stated in a previous post). And
everything has been fine since then.

Until last week...



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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:42:22 -0800 (PST)
From: John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: No Power

Quick question, when my Delorean acellerates it dies and sputters but idles great around 950 R.P.M's. what could it be? Fuel dist. is working like it should and all new injectors have been installed, vacum is advancing and the and timing checks, fuel pressure is what it should be ecu is working fine to. 


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:39:04 -0600
From: Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: HOLE

This wasnt on my car this was a friend that did a frame off restoration 
on his in MD, i think his vin is in the 3000's.

Mark


On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 07:26 AM, Steve Stankiewicz wrote:

> Interesting.  My VIN is 02650 and I have the holes
> behind the speakers.  I'd thought they were rather
> odd, but never gave them much thought.



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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:00:20 -0600
From: "Nick Kemp" <nkemp_at_dml_bwig.net>
Subject: RE: sandblasting coolant pipes

Mark wrote:  "And on the subject of the SS clutch line. Thanks for pointing
that out. I took a look and it has rubbed the epoxy down
to bear metal. Other than where the line drops down and goes buy the
fuel tank is there any other ideas it could of effected?"

Thoughts:  I'd check anywhere the cable can touch the frame, even if it runs
in parallel to the frame.  For example if you zip-stripped the SS clutch
line to the frame or coolant pipes, the vibrations at those points can cause
abrasion.  Just because the SS line is pulled tight to something does not
mean that abrasion is not occurring.

Nick Kemp





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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:58:23 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: D Rex on WGN TV Chicago, Dec. 12, 2003

List,

I thought I would let everyone know that the D Rex
and the GT40 Rock Crawler build from Monster Garage
will be on WGN TV Chicago Morning News from 5:30 am
until 9:00 am tomorrow, Friday, December 12.  WGN is
promoting their Morning Show as the "Big Show" and
has been featuring all things BIG as the promo theme.

WGN used one of my Deloreans for a BTTF type skit in
April (which turned out pretty cool) and they said
they would fit the D Rex in another "bit" later this
year.  Well, later is here.  The D Rex and GT40 RC
will be on throughout the show during the weather
forecasts, several times per hour.

The folks at WGN will be supplied with a Delorean
fact sheet, in case they want to include some correct
information about Deloreans and the Delorean hobby,
so I can only hope that some of it will be included.
I will look for every opportunity to personally talk
about the positive aspects of Delorean ownership.

As with other TV shows that I have been involved in
this year, I do not have the ultimate control over
the content, but I do not anticipate any Deloreans
being harmed during the LIVE broadcast of the show.
Steve Stump from the GT40 RC build will be there
with me and you may see a few others from the build.

I also would like to remind everyone that the replay
of the Monster Garage - American Monsters will be on
December 27, 2003 at both 9pm Central and again three
hours later at 12am Central, technically December 28.
This is the GT40 RC build episode with the Delorean
Team.  No Deloreans harmed during this MG episode.

Later,
Rich W.






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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:48:55 -0000
From: "videobob11" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Speedometer Recalibration - UPDATE - CONCLUSION

OK everyone,
this is what I have learned about getting your speedometer recalibrated.
I know that several Delorean parts sellers sell a re-calibrated
speedometer that includes a new faceplace and requires you to either
exchange your speedo or send it in and wait several weeks.
They charge about $350 or more for this service.
I think that this is a little too much for me.

Now, if you wanted to get the D.A.R.T. Indiglo Dash kit upgrade,
they offer them in 85, 140 and 160.
If you don't already have an upgraded Speedo, this is a
great chance to do it without having to spend $350 on one!!

The speedo is a "GM" supplied, "AC Sparkplug Division" speedo.
I am posting some pictures under FILES in SPEEDO.

I have found a place in Dallas called "ZEPCO".
They can recalibrate the speedo if you send it to them along
with the dash you want to use.

They charge $65.00 per hour, and guess that this is about
a one hour job, + tax if applicable and shipping.

To have it done please contact:
mike_at_dml_zepco.com or 972-690-1052x26 - Mike

However, you be able to get this done at any speedo shop.
Check you local Yellow Pages and you should find a few shops 
in your area that can do this.

Just trying to help.
- Videobob
VIN#5278
 





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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:48:59 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: No Power

In a message dated 12/11/03 3:51:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:
Quick question, when my Delorean acellerates it dies and sputters but idles 
great around 950 R.P.M's. what could it be? Fuel dist. is working like it 
should and all new injectors have been installed, vacum is advancing and the and 
timing checks, fuel pressure is what it should be ecu is working fine to. 

Are the vacuum hoses to your CPR hooked up correctly? 
is the vacuum delay valve going in the right direction? 
are you sure you don't have any vacuum leaks?  
did you check both the primary and control pressure (check control pressure 
as car warms up from stone cold to make sure it increases properly).  
i assume the fuel filter is relatively new and there are no cracks in the 
pickup line (in the tank).  
for that matter, did you physically inspect your tank and it is not almost 
empty?  try filling it up and see if that fixes it.

a few points to ponder.
Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:38:58 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Two schools of DeLo thought

I know moderator declared topic closed, but replies to date haven't
addressed root cause of Snow Covered DeLo Controversy:

Are essentially two schools of DeLo thought:
1) Preserve the car
2) Use the car
Unfortunately two are exclusive of each other.

For example, I am a user. Preserve car best as I can, but ultimate
objective is to drive vehicle as often and as far as possible. Am
willing to sacrifice gradual disintegration (is a machine -- it WILL
wear out) in that pursuit.

Preservationists exact opposite. They drive cars as best they can, but
ultimate objective is to keep vehicles as close to factory condition
as possible. Are willing to sacrifice road time in their pursuit.

Of course owners fall all along this spectrum, but sentiments if
nothing else point towards one end or the other. 
Problem is: adherents of one philosophy sometimes not tolerant of
other. Am guilty of this myself (recently derided Tucker owners in
another group for not driving their vehicles "like I drive my DeLo").
Truth is: BOTH positions equally important. By the time #5939 is
literally "used up" will have logged tens or hundreds of thousands of
miles amongst motoring public, just as designers intended. But all
I'll have left is happy memories -- car itself will be
disintegrating/ed. At that same time preserved DeLoreans, denied their
miles (which is NOT what designers intended), will nonetheless remain
vivid and tangible links to an important chapter in automobile history
-- a role my car can no longer perform.

The more owners understand and appreciate others' approach to car, the
less likely problems like Snow Covered DeLo Controversy.

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:50:46 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Very basic question about SS clutch line replacement

In a message dated 12/10/03 1:57:12 PM Central Standard Time, 
delorean_at_dml_home.nl writes:
The clutch-line connects to a fitting on top of the tranny that
CAN be reached with every thing in place, it's just a bit of a 
hassle and  an "open box wrench" is IMHO most handy
to get the connection loose. 
By "open box wrench" I mean a box wrench with a slot in
it at the top, so you are able to slip it over a pipe, an open
wrench won't give you enough turning space under there.
Something like the bottom one in this pic:
<http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/MechanicalPropulsion/St
uffingBoxWrenches/adaptedWrenches.jpg>

Those wrenches are called flare nut wrenches, or sometimes line wrenches 
(slang).  I highly recommened investing in a complete set, both standard and 
metric, of these helpful tools.  They are very useful for removing nuts and fuel 
lines that are stripped so bad that an open end won't do it anymore.  you can 
even bang a standard size onto a stripped metric with a hammer to remove 
especially rusty or stripped parts.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:21:26 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Where to check for water leaks into the car?

I can personally attest to this.  Ever since I bought my car, I've 
occasionally found small glass fragments behind the rear shelf. 2 
years ago I applied "Window Resealant" to the rear window.  Cut down 
the noise drasticly and stopped the several water leaks that came 
into notice after a touchless car wash.  However this past year it 
got noisy again so while I had my quarter panels, louvers, and t-
panel removed last fall I pulled off the window; cleaned off ALL 
adheasive on both car and glass; and reglued it using a nice fresh, 
clean bead of 3M Winshield Adheasive all the way around.  Couldn't 
tell you the noise level deduction since my entire interior is still 
removed for my dynamat install, but hopefully when all back together 
next spring I'll have one super-quiet DeLorean.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
'81 DMC-6960
'96 Subaru SVX



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