From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1796
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2003 10:35 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Toby Tabs
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

2. Re: Idle speed motor
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

3. Re: New problems on #3299
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. Re: Prototype
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

5. Re: Rear Sway Bar
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

6. Re: History of PRV
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

7. Re: DMC Quality Assured Sticker
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Prototypes, legend and lore
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

9. Re: "French PRV"
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>

10. Re: Rear Sway Bar
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

11. Re: DMC Quality Assured Sticker
From: Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

12. Re: Euro Headlights
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

13. QAC label with DMC logo
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

14. DeLorean Related Magazines
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>

15. Re: Re: Prototype
From: "Donald L. Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>

16. Re: New problems on #3299
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

17. Re: Toby Tabs
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

19. Re: DeLorean Performance Ignition Kit
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Re: QAC label with DMC logo
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. Re: QAC label with DMC logo
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

22. looking for John Baxter
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <webmaster_at_dml_88-mph.com>

23. Stainless Steel Illusions, Errata Pt2?
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <webmaster_at_dml_88-mph.com>

24. Re: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

25. RE: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:40:10 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Toby Tabs

While I agree with your ultimate conclusion, my limted knowledge tells 
me this section is not quite correct. My basis in experience comes from 
spur gears - when you buy a spur gear, you specify the mod rating which 
tells you an amount of torque you can put through a gear of that rating 
before accellerated wear occurs. Below that point, and wear will be 
negligible. Toby's bolts also exhibit a strange strength curve relative 
to deformation - ie they get stronger as they start to bend.

Toby's tabs won't definitely bend, as long as they're kept tight (and in 
his own example, it was pointed out that the failure was in the washers, 
not the bolts, causing them to become loose). I believe as long as 
they're kept tight, they'll survive without bending, indefinitely.

It's also great to have my layman's suspicions concerning restricting 
the movement of the bolt end confirmed. Thanks!

Martin

mquinto_at_dml_attbi.com wrote:

>The Toby Tab:
>  This bolt is a higher tensile strength replacement of the original 
>OEM Bolt. They believe for example: instead of 10,000 cycles you 
>might get 100,000 cycles. 
>Meaning the Toby tab will bend over time like the originals but will 
>last longer.
>  
>





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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:40:13 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Idle speed motor

If there was, it is wrong. The idlespeed valve (that's what it is, after 
all) will freeze in whatever position it was unplugged - this may be a 
position that will cause the engine to stall, but usually, the engine 
carrys on at a fixed speed

Anyone who's ever been into radio controlled modelling will know what a 
servo motor is - that's what the idlespeed "motor" is, controlling a 
variable air valve.

Martin

doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>Did I recently read a post that said if you disconnect the wires going to the 
>idle speed "motor" the engine should stall? Why is that?
>
>Mine certainly does not.
>
>Dave & 6530
>
>  
>





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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:41:04 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: New problems on #3299

Contact me off list (brobertson(at)carolina.net) to discuss my
experience with failing Constant Idle Speed system. Had similar
symptoms, except motor once stuck CLOSED.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Enid/Jeremiah
<hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hey there everyone.
>  
>   I have been working alot on #3299 that I bought Nov 11th. 
Replaced the governor, vacuum modulator, applied the major tuneup kit
for automatics, flushed the fuel lines, and replaced the control
pressure regulator.  Now I have two new symptoms, everyone - give me
your best ideas.
>  
> 1.  The cooling fans are not coming on.  This is extremely vague as
is; I have not tested to see if they ARE coming on when turning on the
A/C.  I will let everyone know as soon as I can if they are coming on
when flipping on the A/C.  The car dumped ALOT of coolant with light
smoke coming out the very back rear-end. (This is after the car has
been driven for 25+ minutes)
>  
> 2.  The car is idling very high.  When I first got it, it idle'd
around 900-1100 rpm.  Now it's idling around 1500rpm-2400rpm.  It gets
progressively worse; the car doesn't idle anywhere near that high when
first turned on.  It goes from low rpms to high rpms as the car warms up.
>  
> I've tried to describe the problems to the best of my ability.  If
anyone has any ideas what the problems might be, please let me know. 
I just today got the workshop manual, so please excuse me if I sound
completely naive; I haven't even been able to look at the manual yet.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:45:48 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Prototype

We had vin 551 in for work a while ago and it's in pretty poor shape, 
partly due to abuse in the past 20 years and partly due to build 
quality. One of the strangest prototype pieces was welded steel headliners.

I can give more details if anyone wants to mail me off list

Martin





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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:52:11 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Sway Bar

Since the DeLorean tends toward pretty severe understeer (at least 
until the tires let go and the rear breaks completely loose) it would 
imply that a rear bar would be a Bad Thing. . is that what you are 
trying to imply? 

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> Contrary to popular belief, adding sway bars to one 
> end of a car affects the handling at the other end 
> of the car.  Stiffening the rear end will promote
> understeer, stiffening the front end will promote
> oversteer.  
> 





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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:56:50 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: History of PRV

See:

http://members.fortunecity.com/perttim/therenault30file/id20.html

Douvrin produced nearly 1 million PRV's. Production spanned quarter
century. Engine definitely has quirks and honest to goodness
weaknesses, but reputation undeserved. See related discussions in:

http://www.swedishbricks.com
http://www.brickboard.com

My DeLorean burns a Renault PRV BTW (European equivalent of B27 in
your Volvo). Original owner melted factory block.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, rbrogren_at_dml_a... wrote:
> 
> I had a Volvo with the PRV engine back in the late 70's and if I
remember 
> right it had close to 150,000 miles on it (including replacement of
the camshafts 
> twice) before I got rid of it. I was stopped once in my -87 Volvo
(probaly in 
> 1991or so) by a friendly "Smokie" in Montana who told me had had a
Volvo/PRV 
> since new and it had 800,000 miles, including several rebuilds by
himself, 
> before he junked it because the body and frame had completely rusted
out beyond 
> repair.  Must have been a glutton for punishment, or maybe he had
been smoking 
> something funny? 
> 
> Does anybody know the design history of the PRV?   
> 
> Roger
> VIN 1074
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:13:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Quality Assured Sticker

Hey Patrick,
Just a small warning...
Casey & Videobob received a "nasty-gram" from DMCH when they thought about
making/re-producing something with a "logo" on it.

Videobobs automatic shifter decal
http://www.dfwdmc.com/store.html

Casey's shift knobs
http://putschdesign.tripod.com/PPD/id6.html

Shannon Y
16506

--------------


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:42:23 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DMC Quality Assured Sticker

In a message dated 12/17/2003 9:07:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com writes:
If this truly is the case and no more are left, I am surprised nobody has 
made any out of that "static cling" material that uses no adhesive.   Its a 
fairly simple design and I bet someone on the list is capable of remaking 
them. 


Well Patrick how about making this a project and seeing what it takes to make 
it for us
Try Mr Label in Cincinnati.

Good luck

Ken

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/



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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:39:59 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Prototypes, legend and lore

I've extensively researched the history of prototypes and know a fair 
amount about them as well as the pre-production cars. Here goes...the 
first prototype with the Citroen 4 cylinder engine is in a private 
collection in Nevada. It is the subject of a feature article in an 
upcoming issue of "deloreans". The owner is proud of the car, but 
very protective. I don't expect we will see the car publicly 
displayed in the near future. But I'm working on him. :-)

The second prototype was sent off to Lotus for "evaluation". This car 
never returned to the states and I went to Lotus last year (at their 
invitation on another matter) and spoke to several people about it. 
Everyone was in agreement that it was destroyed in the late 1990's. 
Photos of that era show it seemingly abandoned and in VERY poor 
condition.

Dozens of prototypes were built at built at Lotus (cars with 
fiberglass bodies) and destroyed or disassembled according to sources 
at Lotus. I believe all the pre-production cars were built at 
Dunmurry (in the late months of 1980 as production loomed). They were 
numbered, a prefixed with a "D". One would imagine they started 
at "D01", but no documentation has surfaced to prove that. There is 
documentation (dated 12/31/81) of the existence of cars numbered D19, 
D20, D21, and D28. These are referred to on different documents 
as "pilot builds" or "engineering mules".  Two or three of these pre-
production cars have survived - the one on the DMC-News web site 
which I believe is D28 (current whereabouts unknown) and Sascha 
Skucek's car (sorry if I spelled your name wrong). I think we 
determined that Sascha's car is D20. Based on the dates of that 
document, I am inclined to think that only those four pre-production 
cars came to the states, the rest having stayed in Dunmurry. 

Between late Jan 1981 and April 1981, several hundred (the actual 
number is unknown at this time) of what's come to be called 
the "black cars" were built. Exactly what became of these cars is 
unknown as well.

Regular production started at VIN #500, though the first 60 were not 
intended for retail sale, and a document exists saying that there was 
to be no warranty coverage on those cars. SSI says production started 
in April, but several cars exist with build dates of March. 

The earliest documented retail sale VIN is 635, the first known 
public sale was June 17, 1981 in Beverly Hills, CA (VIN 910). I doubt 
any cars were sold retail prior to that date, as cars didn't arrive 
in the US until early June of 1981. We all know there are lower VIN's 
in private hands now, though most (if not all) can be established as 
having previously been company cars originally, and were only sold 
later as company finances deteriorated and they were forced to sell 
those cars. Those cars were sold through a company called "Chestnut 
Fleet Leasing" and these cars are sometimes referred to as 
the "Chestnut Fleet" cars.

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
http://www.delorean.com





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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:09:29 -0000
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>
Subject: Re: "French PRV"

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, rbrogren_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Does anybody know the design history of the PRV?   
> 
> Roger
> VIN 1074

Apparently it was originally intended to be  V8. The fuel "crisis" of 
the '70's put an end to that idea, so 2 cylinders were lopped off to 
make a V6. Hence the odd firing sequence. I wonder if there are any 
prototypes of the origianl V8 lying around somewhere? 

Steve Abbott




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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:32:28 -0800
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Sway Bar

A certain amount of understeer was designed into the DeLorean to counter the
rear engine. I'd guess that besides increasing the understeer, a rear sway bar
would make the line between under and over steer a lot straighter and over
steer would come on quicker and with less warning.

Bruce Benson


> Since the DeLorean tends toward pretty severe understeer (at least
> until the tires let go and the rear breaks completely loose) it would
> imply that a rear bar would be a Bad Thing. . is that what you are
> trying to imply?
>
> Dave
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> > Contrary to popular belief, adding sway bars to one
> > end of a car affects the handling at the other end
> > of the car.  Stiffening the rear end will promote
> > understeer, stiffening the front end will promote
> > oversteer.





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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:52:39 -0600
From: Mark Valuch <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Quality Assured Sticker

I imagine it is a copyrighted by everything that DMCH ownes from the 
factory and drawings.

Mark
On Wednesday, December 17, 2003, at 07:50 PM, PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> If this truly is the case and no more are left, I am surprised nobody 
> has
> made any out of that "static cling" material that uses no adhesive.   
> Its a
> fairly simple design and I bet someone on the list is capable of 
> remaking them.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Come see all of my Photo's at my Website.
http://photos.yahoo.com/snextime




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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:04:27 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Euro Headlights

As was explained to me, the conversion looks totally great, but is 
utterly useless. The problem is that the composite housing is 
designed for mounting into a car with an engine compartment to access 
them from the rear. To install, you of course need to remove the 
sealed beams, and the light cans. To mount the units, I was told that 
the owner of this car had to "glue" them in with non-shrinking 
silicone. That way when he needed to replace a bulb, he could just 
tear the housings out.

The real problem is that there is no way to aim the beams, since they 
are not mounted into any cans. So you will end up driving with the 
beams pointing up into the air, and you can't see the road that well.

If you're looking into a sealed beam conversion, I'd reccomend 
somthing else. GM started using a composite headlamp set on their 
cars that used the standard 4-beam system. I don't know the year 
ranges, but I believe that you can find them on late 80's-early 90's 
Cadillacs, and Chevy Caprices (the old boxy design, before the 
switched to the aero-dynamic platform shared by the Impala). 
Admittedly, it's a bastard design. To make a single sealed beam, it's 
like GM just glued two standard sized sealed beam units togeter. So 
the unit appears to actually require 4 capsule blubs! However, the 
front lense is a seamless, single piece, and appears to have the 
exact same dimentions as two regular sealed beam units.

Plus, if you used these units, you should only need to modify the 
existing DeLorean and/or GM cans & bezels to mount/remove and aim 
them just like stock.

http://www.layitlow.com/members/Rhidin2low/

On a personal note, these would be my preference for a conversion 
based upon astetics. With the GM units, they would take up the exact 
space that your current sealed beams use. But if you look at the 
Maxima units in the picture, they appear to be quite slopply. Because 
they're so far forward, they look to me like they're spilling out of 
the facias. And in addition, I can't tell if the owner had to cut the 
sides of the facia, and the grill insert to make it fit.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <doki_pen_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hey again everyone.  I think one of the slickest mods I've seen to 
the
> delorean are the Euro Headlights like on this page.
> 
> http://www.entermyworld.com/custom/modica1x1.jpg
<SNIP>




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:22:12 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: QAC label with DMC logo

Don't believe everything you read on the DML. :-)

I send emails, nasty-grams come from lawyers. Neither Casey nor Bob got a
nasty-gram.

Persons interested in licensing the use of the DMC logo for aftermarket or
reproduction parts should send a written request for information to:

Licensing Request
DeLorean Motor Company, Inc.
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA

Current licensees of the logo include Sony, Namco, Sunstar, Welly, and
Minichamps, among others.

There is a pretty significant minimum for a license to use the logo in a
part or accessory. Because of that, most low-volume sales things, like the
labels you mentioned, aren't cost-effective to do.

James




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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:30:55 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>
Subject: DeLorean Related Magazines

This month, I have received all of the DeLorean related magazines that I
subscribe to.
 
I had a crazy thought.
 
Why don't all of you magazine publishers figure out a way to stager your
publications so that they are delivered during different months.
 
I would like to get a magazine every month rather than all of them within
the same week.
 
What do the rest of you think?
 
Scott Mueller
002981
RNDOLA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:54:50 -0800
From: "Donald L. Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Prototype



Dear David, or anyone:

I am going on ancient memory here, but I remember that temporary body 
stamping tooling was made from Kirksite metal for an initial run of 
Stainless sheetmetal parts. As I remember the story, there was a 
despirate need for outer sheetmetal for parading the cars out in the 
world and the production stamping tools were behind schedule. I think I 
remember the production dies coming from Porsche Works. I have a very 
early production car and have suspected it could have some of these 
Kirksite parts as the finish detail looks different and hand worked in 
places. I also seem to remember a reference stating that the Kirksite 
tools were made in the USA and the resultant parts were much better than 
expected, to the point that it was questioned if they could be made to 
last quite a long time. I seem to remember the statement that " if we 
had known how good the Kirksite tools were we could have saved the money 
of expensive production tooling until maybe 10,000 units." As remote as 
it likely is, could these temporary tools still exist? Did any of these 
parts end up in the production cars, or even lots of these parts? Could 
changeover in styling of the hoods equate to changeover in basic 
tooling? Could the original manufacturer of them tool up for left front 
fenders on an economic basis? Maybe a question for James Esprey to explore?

Thanks in advance for any info,
Don Ekhoff





David Teitelbaum wrote:

>These "black" cars where probably assembled and disassembled several
>times for the workforce to learn on and for the designers to check fit
>and clearances. I would guess that most of the cars where finally
>disassembled and the parts were used in the first production cars.
>That is except for the plastic (or fiberglass?) body panels. Those
>panels seem to have disappeared into history. It would be great if
>someone could find a set of them!!!!!! Other parts that have
>disappeared forever are the foam blocks and other protective shipping
>that was put on the cars when they where sent to America. In that
>sense you could say the first cars were prototypes, they have the
>parts from the first 500 in them! IMHO that won't make them any more
>valuable, any car with a vin after 500 is a production car. Now even
>saying that, many of the early cars were never intended for the
>public. Just look at the vin chronology and you will see many cars
>were set aside for engineering, sales, promotion, executives, etc. You
>could argue that a particular car that was built for a particular
>person (especially a high profile person) may be worth more that one
>made for sale to the general public.
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757
>
>  
>






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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:50:47 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: New problems on #3299

2.  The car is idling very high.  When I first got it, it idle'd around 
900-1100 rpm.  Now it's idling around 1500rpm-2400rpm.  It gets progressively 
worse; the car doesn't idle anywhere near that high when first turned on.  It goes 
from low rpms to high rpms as the car warms up

I think you may have a problem with a simple solution 
it sounds like you are fuel rich 
it dumps gas into the oil and when the oil warms up the vapors make the fuel 
mix rich thus increasing the rpm

Sounds dumb but I had the same problem and changing the oil fixed it 
But you have to get the fuel mix correct if not you will be right back in it 
withn a few days.

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:02:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Toby Tabs

Thanks for the info..

Do they have an opinion on the Pearce Design
modification to this area??

http://www.pearce-design.com/PFImprovements.html

The photos of how it mounts to the frame on there.. :(
 and I am too dumb to explain what I saw in Memphis.. 
maybe someone has photos of it?

--- mquinto_at_dml_attbi.com wrote:
> Hello List,
>   I have been following this thread for a few days
> now. And I have 
> an opinion on the issue. I just want to give some
> background info 
><SNIP>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 01:07:20 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating

What you describe is a classical connection problem at a major 
junction/connection like the battery ground or other major 
junction/connection or, a battery that has no capacity left because 
of internal battery issues.

There are so many potential areas for connections being loose I 
would suggest starting at the most common and working to the least 
common.

First make sure the battery is OK. Then, check the ground wire going 
to the frame from the battery - this is not that easy to check but 
it is probably the most common point of ground/electrical issues. 
Check the ground strap from the frame to the engine at the motor 
mount then the starter connections, etc.

Be sure to disconnect the battery BEFORE you go messing around with 
any electrical connections. Reconnect carefully, etc.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc001629" <dmc001629_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List:
> 
> I am a month long DeLorean owner of #1629.  Driving my car daily, 
I 
> am encountering the "typical" small agitations that 22 year old 
> sports car owners encounter ... so I am working out the bugs.  The 
> most recent is one that I would like some advice on.
> 
> I am sure it is something not that this will not be complicated to 
> repair, but reading some of the past responses in the message 
files 
> on ignition and starting issues, I know that it could not hurt to 
ask 
> all of you about the connection between the ignition switch and 
the 
> starter.
> 
> Here is what is happening.  I insert the key, turn to first 
position, 
> and everything activates as normal... Dashboard indicators come on 
> (seat belt indicator light, oil light, and battery light come on), 
I 
> hear the fuel pump and other things clicking on, and the consol 
> lights up ... all normal.
> 
> Now, I turn the key to activate the starter, and the consol lights 
GO 
> OUT COMPLETELY, and I hear a discernable "CLICK", and the starter 
> does NOT activate.
> 
> When I return the key to the run position, I hear the "click" 
again.
> 
> Ken in Cincinnati informed me of the #1 and #7 fuse ... making 
> certain that there is a connection, and that power is going to 
them.  
> He mentioned a "bypass fix" that I will investigate.
> 
> Is there anything in the steering column around the ignition 
switch 
> that I must pay attention to?
> 
> I will be investing in an owner's manual. At the moment, I am 
working 
> on my own visual observation.
> 
> I am very satisfied with my car .. and willing to learn about it 
as I 
> continue to drive it.  Please let me know your thoughts.
> 
> Thank you,
> Ramon




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:49:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Performance Ignition Kit

I was not questioning the DMCH work load.  I also dont
know why you need to chalange my capabilities when it
is not me who is evaluating the system.  If you would
like, I'd be happy to evaluate it for you on my Legend
Twin Turbo and/or stock car. 

It would seem to me that if a improvement is expected
with this system installed (is it?), it would be a
priority to have data to back it up for potential
customers.  

Has this system even been tested on a DeLorean?  I
would hope so.  Why are there no measurements
published on the improvements (if any) on the cars
this system was tested on?

Being familar with the company who DMCH sourced it
from does not give us much information on how well
this system will work on a DeLorean.

While I am in the mood to be nit-picking, I was on the
DMCH web site looking for any information on this new
ignition system (I did not find any), but do see where
there is a claim that the DMCH spring kit will "return
to DeLorean to the engineers intended ride height". 
Do you have data to back this up?  I clearly remember
being told on our trip to Belfast by the man who
worked on it (forgot his name) that the ride hight was
never changed.

Marc

--- James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com> wrote:
> Our mechanics do it in less than three hours. Of
> course, how long it would
> you or someone else to do it is entirely dependent
> on their skill-level. So,
> in this case, it's not a matter of complexity (can
> you change the plugs and
> wires in your car, Marc?), more a matter of deciding
> which customer's car is
> going to get put aside while one of the mechanics
> does the work.
> 
> Out of the 32 cars in the shop at the moment, 17 are
> "in process" (somewhere
> between the initial checkout and final delivery).
> Four of them are due to
> leave before the end of the year. When it comes to
> delivering a client's car
> or putting on a $320 performance ignition for
> testing purposes, we'll
> deliver a client's car anytime - isn't that the way
> you would want it to be
> if it were your car?
> 
> Several of the kits have already sold, people who
> have read the Nology web
> site or are already familiar with the company and
> it's products.
> 
> James
> 
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:05:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: QAC label with DMC logo

According to the United States Patent and Trademark
Office, DMCH owns registration number 2491848 which is
in fact a DMC logo.

However, the DMC logo that most people try to use (as
seen on the front of the car itself) is number 113096
and listed as "DEAD".  According to an attorney friend
who deals whit this sort of thing, that essentially
means it is public domain.

I don't know which logo the QAC label used.

You don't have to believe what I am saying on the DML,
but you can look it up yourself at
http://www.uspto.gov/

The real trick is, a hobbyist making a few labels (or
models, or keys, or whatever) will probably not have
the means to enter a legal battle with DMCH..  One of
the downfalls of the US legal system, IMHO.  I have
not heard of anyone challenging DMCH on ownership of
the logo.  Anyone with a legitimate business reason to
do so is likely to not want to do anything to upset
DMCH (because they have a monopoly on many of the
parts required to continue doing business).

On a sad note, It looks like JZD's new car project may
not be doing so well, his registration for "DeLorean"
(number 76165416) in the font we all know is also dead
as of March 18, 2003.  Looks like they did not care
enough to renew it...  This by the way is the
lettering found on the back bumper of our cars, and
the hood emblem on 1982 cars.

Marc

--- James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com> wrote:
> Don't believe everything you read on the DML. :-)
> 
> I send emails, nasty-grams come from lawyers.
> Neither Casey nor Bob got a
> nasty-gram.
> 
> Persons interested in licensing the use of the DMC
> logo for aftermarket or
> reproduction parts should send a written request for
> information to:
><SNIP>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:15:00 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: QAC label with DMC logo

I've got a question on that topic...what if the low-volume sales item 
were to be exclusively sold to DMCH? 

Licensing fees can't then still be a requirement, right...or wrong?

Not trying to become a lawyer or anything, just curious,
Josh
VIN 5102
VIN 15964
VIN nuts and bolts
VIN Just miraculously appeared in my driveway the other day (3951)


James Espey wrote:

>There is a pretty significant minimum for a license to use the logo in a
>part or accessory. Because of that, most low-volume sales things, like the
>labels you mentioned, aren't cost-effective to do.
>
>James
>
>  
>





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:15:21 -0500
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <webmaster_at_dml_88-mph.com>
Subject: looking for John Baxter

vin 2030 in Honolulu, HI. please contact me off list.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:24:36 -0500
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <webmaster_at_dml_88-mph.com>
Subject: Stainless Steel Illusions, Errata Pt2?

P. 134 "Faceoff At The QAC"

2nd paragraph, 1st sentence. Refers to the East Coast QAC as being in Bridgewater, Connecticut. Now, there is indeed, a Bridgewater, CT. but I could have sworn up and down (sometimes i do!) that it's supposed to be Bridgwater, NJ?

-Jeff Chabotte
Norwich, CT
Webmaster, http://www.88-mph.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:49:01 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating

Check ALL the big wire connections between the battery and the frame,
starter, and alternator. Have the battery load tested. There is an
update on the wiring in the starter circuit for very early cars. It
may apply to yours.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc001629" <dmc001629_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List:
> 
> I am a month long DeLorean owner of #1629.  Driving my car daily, I 
> am encountering the "typical" small agitations that 22 year old 
> sports car owners encounter ... so I am working out the bugs.  The 
> most recent is one that I would like some advice on.
> 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:50:57 -0800
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating

Ramon, Has the update been done for the start inhibit relay for your low vin
car. If not that may also be the problem.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: dmc001629 [mailto:dmc001629_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 9:15 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Turn ignition key, and starter not activating


Dear List:

I am a month long DeLorean owner of #1629.  Driving my car daily, I
am encountering the "typical" small agitations that 22 year old
sports car owners encounter ... so I am working out the bugs.  The
most recent is one that I would like some advice on.

I am sure it is something not that this will not be complicated to
repair, but reading some of the past responses in the message files
on ignition and starting issues, I know that it could not hurt to ask
all of you about the connection between the ignition switch and the
starter.

Here is what is happening.  I insert the key, turn to first position,
and everything activates as normal... Dashboard indicators come on
(seat belt indicator light, oil light, and battery light come on), I
hear the fuel pump and other things clicking on, and the consol
lights up ... all normal.

Now, I turn the key to activate the starter, and the consol lights GO
OUT COMPLETELY, and I hear a discernable "CLICK", and the starter
does NOT activate.

When I return the key to the run position, I hear the "click" again.

Ken in Cincinnati informed me of the #1 and #7 fuse ... making
certain that there is a connection, and that power is going to them.
He mentioned a "bypass fix" that I will investigate.

Is there anything in the steering column around the ignition switch
that I must pay attention to?

I will be investing in an owner's manual. At the moment, I am working
on my own visual observation.

I am very satisfied with my car .. and willing to learn about it as I
continue to drive it.  Please let me know your thoughts.

Thank you,
Ramon




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moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

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To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

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