From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1801
Date: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:47 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Grady or Houston?
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Re: Toby Tabs Rear Suspension
From: Samuel <samuel_yahoo_at_dml_lightspeed.cx>

3. Re: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

4. Re: Prototype (and other early Deloreans)
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>

5. Air Filter mod anyone?
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

6. Re: PRV oil distribution problems
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Engine Compartment paint
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

8. RE: Re: Toby Tabs Rear Suspension
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Kathryn DeLorean
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

10. Window switch stencil
From: Phil Peters <PhilPeters_at_dml_postmaster.co.uk>

11. Re: Grady or Houston?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

12. Re: Air Filter mod anyone?
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

13. Re: Re: Toby Tabs Rear Suspension
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

14. Battery cut-off switches?
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. winter storage question
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Rear Suspension (Last Post)
From: "Mike" <mquinto_at_dml_attbi.com>

17. Re: Grady or Houston?
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: PRV oil distribution problems
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>

19. Re: PRV oil distribution problems
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>

20. Prototypes, legend and lore
From: "Chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>

21. Re: Battery cut-off switches?
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

22. Re: Digest Number 1800
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com

23. Prototype Delorean AGAIN!
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

24. Pigeon Forge
From: "stevetrimble52" <stevetrimble52_at_dml_yahoo.com>

25. Re: Re: Prototype (and other early Deloreans)
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:09:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Grady or Houston?

My concern everyone is the amount of money I have available for repairs.  I would be looking at spending about $6000-$7000.  I want him to give me an realistic estimate and then just fix what is essential to have a car that can be driven about 2 days a week.  I have another driver, having this car completely perfected is not my goal.  I wanted to ask him to install a new water pump with all the clamps and hoses (1WPCKIT), a new fuel pump kit (111085G), 2 new brake rotors (111095G) , fix my tie rods on my steering, fix my spedometer, and install/"tighten up" my cooling system (111417G). My transmission has been completely rebuilt, my engine seems to be in good running and working order, the body is great, the interior is fine, my doors work just fine, wheels are fine, tires only have 400 miles.  
 
I do NOT need a complete restoration; I just want to fix the areas that I'm sure need some work.  I don't even know to be honest if I need ALL that I've listed earlier, but hey, while the car is apart might as well hit as much as possible.  Would Houston be a better alternative for that much work?  I can only afford about $7000 for repairs; does anyone have any experience with Houston?  Could they do THAT much work for $7000?  I know what most of you want to say "Well, call them up yourself and ask!"..I am going to do that, but while I wait this weekend thought I might as well ask.  Is it realistic to have all of those compnents replaced for around $7000, or am I just dreaming?



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:27:08 -0500
From: Samuel <samuel_yahoo_at_dml_lightspeed.cx>
Subject: Re: Re: Toby Tabs Rear Suspension

Walter does have bolts from the same batch that Martin sells. He's 
selling for $46 a pair (plus shipping, donate extra if you want). I've 
been trying to get him to find the paper showing strength of the bolts 
so we could put the info up for others to get. If you want more info, 
email me off list. Walter is a short drive from me so it is easy for me 
to get a pair and send out.

Samuel
#5096

content22207 wrote:

>For average owner, wouldn't it be simpler and easier just to change
>Inconel bolts periodically?
>
>For anyone who can't wait for Toby Peterson's next production run,
>Walt Coe (US distribution) and Martin Gutkowski (European
>distribution) had similar bolts -- yes, I know there are length and
>thread differences -- made from Inconel too:
>
>http://www.delorean.co.uk/DMUK/newparts1.html#tabs
>
>If I'm not mistaken, this is the same material that bolts holding jet
>engines to wings are made from.
>
>Bill Robertson
>#5939



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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:42:41 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Turn ignition key, and starter not activating

#1629-I just experienced this very problem-I would turn the key and my
starter would not activate-just click. In my case, the gear that
slides to mesh with the flywheel in the starter was ceased in the
starter. Take out the starter and test it-put battery negative cable
on starter housing, and positive on the post the positive cable
usually goes on. Then take a jumper wire and affix it to the positive
post and the other end put on the post where the white/red wire goes.
Watch to see if this gear slides out when it is activated. If not,
open up the starter and free it/lube it. I am not sure why my starter
wouldn't engage with the gear stuck-it should have just freewheeled
without meshing. But its still a good idea to test and check. -#5003




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:27:39 -0000
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Prototype (and other early Deloreans)

AHA !!
I am starting to see a pattern here,a lot of those cars (pre vin # 
649)were "sold" away from the American Market.(less likely for a 
lawsuit)As most of those early cars that I came across were NOT in 
the American market.

Claude
00570




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> > Also, note that some cars were "pulled" from the
> > production line
> > early on and at least some of these cars became
> > factory RHD cars
> > and were re-assigned later VIN's as they were
> > actually sold.
> This is very true.There is a very early car here in
> Sydney,VIN 510.This car is a Wooler Hodec converted
> car but kept its low VIN.Is an interesting car with a
> real mix of features.It has the early dark wheels but
> the later bonnet with no relief lines or gas flap.It
> was cool to see such an early car in the flesh.
> 
> Andrew
> Sydney,Australia
> VIN 2883
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> http://photos.yahoo.com/




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:46:11 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Air Filter mod anyone?

Hey #5003 here, I feel that the stock airbox in the DeLorean is very
air restrictive to the motor-even when I took off the flex hose from
the airbox to the therm-control, the motor was much more happy then
all hooked up. Does anyone have any kind of mod replacing the stock
airbox-or any ideas here? Thanks guys-#5003




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:12:52 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: PRV oil distribution problems

There are two reasons oil has to be changed. It either has too high a
content of particles, dirt and metal, or the additives are worn out,
broken down. Both reasons are dependant on the kind of usage. Better
oil can go for longer periods of time but oil is cheap so in general
it is always better to change often with cheaper oil. Not CHEAP oil,
just not the most expensive synthetic you can find, a good premium
brand oil. Always change the filter at every oil change too. NEVER
OVERFILL. Read the owner's manual for the correct specifacations
required of the oil, it matters. The wrong spec and you CAN wear out a
camshaft prematurely. I have seen cars go just fine with changing the
oil every 5,000 miles and I have seen motors worn out even with
changes every 2,000 miles. A lot has to do with the way you use the
car and the TYPE of oil used. In general I recomend changing the oil
in the Deloreans once a year. That is WAY over what is called for but
you have to consider that you cannot go by mileage when a car is not
regularly used. Most are used less than 2,500 because of insurance
reasons and many don't even get that. Considering the cost of
ownership doing 1 oil change a year is very reasonable. Just remember
that every other year you MUST also flush the brake fluid. Doing this
and yor PRV will last a very long time.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Some people claim Volvo "fixed" reported oil passage problems with
> B28, but one of my factory manuals covering both blocks -- which goes





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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:43:47 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Engine Compartment paint

I know this topic has made it to the list before, only I cannot find
this post on the list anywhere...I'm wondering what is used on the
fiberglass in the engine compartment-gloss black. Any special paint?-I
would like to refresh my compartment. Thanks-#5003




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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:21:01 -0600
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Toby Tabs Rear Suspension

This subject seems to be never ending!
I agree that the TAB's are a bad design, but is it really as big of a 
problem as everyone makes it out to be?
Does anyone know how many "catastrophic failures" have happened where a bolt 
actually
snapped and caused a wreck?
As far as I know this has only happened once according to one source.
I would love to know some real stats.

Also, does anyone know if anyone has ever died in a Delorean related crash?
Just curious on that one.

I think that the bolts are fine unless you feel some problems back there, or 
have recently
hit some major pot holes...etc.

No offence to Toby, I am sure his bolts are the best, but will a a set of 
$70 tab-bolts
make a difference?
You can get bolts from a guy like Hervey at SpecialTauto for $20.00 that are 
much
stronger than the OEM's, and my factory bolts with 26K on them are fine and 
I
ride my car hard.
Hell, I speed UP in a curve!
Besides,
If you smack a hole hard enough, the bolt will bend. Even Toby's.
If it is too hard it will just snap all together, but I would guess this 
would be instant
and the result of a very hard wack.
I don't care how many PSI of strength he says it has, it is no comparison to 
the G-Force
of a fully loaded car going 70 MPH hitting a hole.

This running post has people scared to death to drive their cars and 
everyone is
paranoid about it.

Unless your hobby is hitting parking lot bumps at 88 MPH, I would say 
everyone is fine.
Just do routine check up's of all your nuts and bolts,
(I learned how to do that while owning a Harley!)
....and "feel" your car when you drive.
Make sure your tires are properly aired up and if you feel any squiggles 
then check it out
immediately.
I have found you can get a good "feel" for your suspension system by doing a 
few
fishtails or burnouts on a wet road.
That will reveal any loose parts when you swing back.....
..but then again I learned how to drive watching "The Dukes Of Hazzard"!

Oh yeah, I was speeding down a long stretch of Texas highway last night.
I have no idea how fast I was going because the speedo only goes to 85, but 
the
pedal was floored and the RPM'S were holding steady at over 5500!
My car is tighter that a new NUN.

- Videobob
VIN# 5278




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:53:34 -0800
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: Kathryn DeLorean

We have some new pictures of Kathryn (Kat) DeLorean on the DeLorean Car Show
site. 

http://deloreancarshow.com/events-saturday.html#Kat 

Gary
IN2TIME




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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:17:33 +0000
From: Phil Peters <PhilPeters_at_dml_postmaster.co.uk>
Subject: Window switch stencil

Hi all,
        
Just wondering if anyone has a spare window switch stencil they might consider selling. They used to be sold at <www.mydelorean.com/main.html> but the supply has now run out.

If anyone has a couple of these stencils for sale, please e-mail me privately.

Many thanks,
-- 
Phil Peters
VIN #4400 LHJ 58W
DOC #84
Wolverhampton, UK


___________________________________________________ 
Web-based office space for rent. Free trial!

http://www.officemaster.net




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:14:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Grady or Houston?

No one can give you an exact estimate on what it will take to do your
car. In the course of working on it many other things WILL turn up and
need attention. We are talking about a 20 year old car that has not
been properly maintained. It is not far-fetched to have a $10,000
bill. If money is your main concern then I suggest you try to do as
much of the work yourself as you can. Try to find other Delorean
owners in your area who can help or offer advice. Use the DML for
support and technical information. All of the Delorean venders can do
the work you need but aside from how long it may take, I would guess
they would all charge about the same to actually do the work. It comes
down to waiting time and shipping costs. I also believe that you would
get the same high quality of work from all of them. If you can
concentrate on just the mechanical and electrical and leave the
cosmetic to do yourself then you can keep the bill lower. It is always
cheaper to buy a better (faster, cheaper) car than to try to turn a
neglected one into a beauty. It can be done but for every increase in
improvement it is an order of magnitude in dollars. That other
Delorean that was too expensive to buy WILL turn out to be cheaper in
the end. This is especially true if you have to pay others to do the
work. Don't come to the DML for cost estimates on the repairs you
need, the venders can give you that over the phone. Don't get in the
trap of the labor rate. A low rate will just take more time and in the
end cost more. The Delorean venders know how long it takes to do
things, it is just without seeing the car (and in some cases taking it
apart) they can't know exactly everthing YOUR car will need. For
example after replacing the tie rod ends and still having play you
might need the universal coupling, the rubber bushing and maybe a
rack! When they do the rotors they could find a caliper leaking, etc. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_y...>
wrote:
> My concern everyone is the amount of money I have available for
repairs.  I would be looking at spending about $6000-$7000.  I want
him to give me an realistic estimate and then just fix what is
essential to have a car that can be driven about 2 days a week.  I
have another oved]




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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:23:29 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Air Filter mod anyone?

John hervey from www.specialtauto.com is re-making casey's high flow SS 
air box. Casey will not make anymore but he still shows them on his web 
page  http://putschdesign.tripod.com/PPD/id2.html

Mark


On Saturday, December 20, 2003, at 10:46 PM, TalksToGod wrote:

> Hey #5003 here, I feel that the stock airbox in the DeLorean is very
> air restrictive to the motor-even when I took off the flex hose from
> the airbox to the therm-control, the motor was much more happy then
> all hooked up. Does anyone have any kind of mod replacing the stock
> airbox-or any ideas here? Thanks guys-#5003



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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:27:25 -0500
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Toby Tabs Rear Suspension

Not to be contrary, but I wasn't doing anything amazing or dangerous when
my TAB broke in two.  20mph in traffic down some suburban back-road.  The
first clunk let me know something was wrong, but seriously made the same
noise as running over a plastic bottle.  I just didn't see a plastic
bottle go under or come out from unde the car so I stopped to check.

I'm not sure what would happen at higher speeds; probably not much at
reasonable speeds.  3 wheels pointing in the right direction shoud be
enough to keep you car on the road.  At speeds over 80 or 100, you really
need all 4 tires pointing in the same direction to drive safely!

About people dying in crashes, check the archives.  I haven't heard of
any in TAB related crashes, but that doesn't mean that a good replacement
bolt is in order for any Delorean.

Considering the large amount of $$ that many Delorean could reasonably
consume in a year, $46 to $70 for upgraded bolts is really not very much.
 Hey, a tow to the mechanic costs that much, which is exactly what you'll
need when you're in west nowhere with a broken TAB.

It's never too late for preventative maintenance.

Jim
1537

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:21:01 -0600 "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
writes:
> This subject seems to be never ending!
> I agree that the TAB's are a bad design, but is it really as big of 
> a 
> problem as everyone makes it out to be?
> Does anyone know how many "catastrophic failures" have happened 
> where a bolt 
> actually
> snapped and caused a wreck?
...




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:20:03 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Battery cut-off switches?

Does anyone use them on their cars? If so what type and from where. 
I take my car out infrequently and almost always have to boost it. 




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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:26:52 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: winter storage question

Is there any kind of fuel additive that can be put into the gas tank 
to prevent any "sludging up" etc... ive retired my car to the garage 
until spring and am concerned about the fuel system....thanx guys




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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:51:50 -0000
From: "Mike" <mquinto_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: Rear Suspension (Last Post)

Hello List,
 Video Bob is right about this thread. I'm sorry if I'm scaring 
people about the rear suspension bolts. There are a small hand few 
of people that do worry about this issue or want improvements in 
this area. I was speaking more to them. These people are the ones 
who purchased the Toby bolts, or installed the Bauerle Bracket, and 
have or want the Pearce Chassis for RIDE improvements. I was also 
trying to make aware that people should not attempt to do certain 
mods like the Bauerle Bracket. But for those who want to do mods the 
ones that I suggested and what Pearce has designed are the safer 
ones.
But again I would not recommend to anyone attempt these.

  I'm aware of the other companies selling bolts. I neglected to 
mention them because I don't no the specification and the people on 
this list are more knowledgeable about Toby's bolts.
Bill Robertson is also correct in his post. Those of you that are 
worried about the bolts and price inspect them often or purchased an 
upgraded bolt from your favorite supplier. Anything is better then 
the original OEM.
  
  I never heard of any crash related accident caused by this bolt. I 
still have my OEM bolts installed and I'm sure they are bent. I 
figure if they have lasted this long they did what they were 
designed to do (even if it was a poor design). I never mention in my 
post that the OEM bolts were a safety hazard or will cause an 
accident. But for my taste a bent bolt is not a good thing to have. 
When I get time I will do mods to my suspension like I claimed in my 
previous post. 
For me this is an easy job because I'm a fabricator and I'm 
surrounded by people who can give me expert advice. But I will do it 
not because I'm afraid of the bolt snapping. It's for reducing the 
bending of the bolt and RIDE handling. 

Just like the LHS torsion bar or LHS fender. When people hear that 
supplies are low, panic mode starts. Or when people say on this list 
I'm doing a short run of something, this also causes the panic mode. 
Everyone be safe, don't worry, and Happy Holidays.

Regards,
Mike 





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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:56:49 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Grady or Houston?

I might be a good person to ask, since my car recently got back from 
Robs shop (about 2 months ago i think)>First off, Rob is a real nice 
guy, very knowledgable and helpful. When i had my car trailered 
there he was really busy, but he took my car anyway. After 5 weeks, 
maybe less it was ready, I had a major service done to it(atleast to 
my knowledge) 200 point inspection, complete tune-up all the 
recalls, afew Zillas, lowering of the suspension, miscellaneous 
powder coating etc...my car sat for several years in a garage in 
california before i bought it...maybe that helped things because i 
gave Rob the OK to fix anything and everything and it only cost me 
close to $5,000 keep in mind i requested some of the work that wasnt 
necessary....so I think 6-$7,000 is kinda high unless you need some 
big ticket items like fuel distributors etc..I have complete trust 
in Rob and and his service is excellent I live in NYC so my car was 
going there regardless, I cant say anything about DMC HOUSTON, 
because ive never had the pleasure of dealing with them as far as 
service on my car goes due to geographical limitations, but I dont 
think youll go wrong with either of the 2 shops I will say this 
though, there shouldnt be any questions on what Rob can or cant do, 
PJ Grady is as complete a Delorean repair shop as anyone else...you 
can contact me off the list if you want to know what was done on my 
car and for how much , i have a record of whats been done to the car 
somewhere.




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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:27:21 -0000
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>
Subject: Re: PRV oil distribution problems

The heads of later renditions of the Volvo version of the V6 
incorporated a cast "well" which held a pool of oil for the cam lobes 
to dip into. I believe even the later CIS (K-Jet) engines had this 
modification. Earlier versions relied solely on whatever oil squirted 
out from the cam bearings. Dopey. Another source of poor oiling to 
the valve gear came from worn timing chains and guides/tensioners. 
When the plunger on the hydraulic tensioners emerge far enough they 
uncover a hole in them which allows oil destined for the valve train 
to leak away straight back into the oil pan. Silly idea with no 
apparent purpose. And, as I've mentioned prior, I'm highly suspicious 
about the quality of the oil pump relief valve springs in the early 
engines. Not to mention these engines' tendancy for oil sludging. I 
scraped a pile of goo a good inch and half thick out the oil pan of 
mine. Sludge in the oil passageways tends to restrict oil movement, 
so resulting in even less oil to the valve train. Use good oil, 
change it frequently. I know the insides of my engine are spotless so 
I'll be using an engine cleaner/flusher compound every so often from 
now on. Not a good idea with old, sludgy engines though. The flusher 
will loosen the crud in the oil pan which will then block the oil 
pickup screen and starve the engine of oil. Bad.

Cheers
Steve Abbott 


 --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> Some people claim Volvo "fixed" reported oil passage problems with
> B28, but one of my factory manuals covering both blocks -- which 
goes
> into great detail of differences in pistons, valves, and camshafts -
-
> makes no mention of any difference in engine oiling system. I think
> passages are the same. I also think many people who experience
> lubrication problems simply failed to change their oil regularly.
> 
> Was recent discussion in another DeLo Group about oil changes. Some
> owners felt 7 quart capacity enabled longer than normal interval
> between changes. Others felt oil changes were only mileage 
dependent,
> not age dependent (can leave oil in sparsely driven car for years). 
I
> strongly disagree about both. Old oil, or heavily used oil, does not
> flow well, can become "clumpy", and is reportedly acidic. Not only 
is
> an oil change one of the cheapest and easiest procedures to perform,
> but I think is key to engine longevity.
> 
> My change interval on all cars is 2,500 miles BTW. Have none logging
> less than that at least every 9 months, so I don't worry about
> seasonal oil changes.
> 
> Am indeed very happy with my French PRV, but don't think Swedish
> rendition is as bad as that Brickboard quote made it seem. You'll
> notice on those Volvo bulletin boards that owners either love 
B27/B28
> and get hundreds of thousands of miles from them, or hate them and
> lament the day they bought a 60 series (no one noncommittal in the
> middle). I suspect difference is as simple as routine maintenance...
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, rbrogren_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > Volvo ended up screwing the oil system and therefore the Volvo PRV
> V6 which 
> > can be found in the DeLorean (it has a Renault transmission 
however)
> is not 
> > exactly the most durable thing around. How about the French 
versions
> then? They 
> > are the B20's of V6 engines, the blocks are virtually 
indestructible
> ( quarter 
> > million miles is no big deal for these, mine is approaching this
> mark ) and 
> > pack a quite nice punch. At 2.7L size, the Renault generates 144hp
> with K-Jet 
> > FI and Peugeot is right there with them. Not bad for something
> designed in the 
> > 70's.
> > 
> > Okay, so the HP ratings don't vary that much, but the diffrences 
in 
> > reliability are dramatical. True, similarities exists too, and
> costly repairs are just 
> > that. When this puppy blows it'll be the simplest choice to drive 
it
> off a 
> > bridge or something, also for the reason that anything that says
> 'Jaeger made in 
> > France' should be gutted out and thrown into the lake.
> > 
> > Allrightey.. all done with venting, thank you for all of those who
> managed to 
> > read all the way down here. Now hopefully you remember in the 
future
> that 
> > it's the Volvo PRV that has the reliability problems, not it's 
french 
> > counterparts.
> > 
> > 
> > -Matti Ronkko,
> > Finland
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:33:24 -0000
From: "Steve Abbott" <abbotts_at_dml_aardvark.net.au>
Subject: Re: PRV oil distribution problems

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
>> ... every other year you MUST also flush the brake fluid. Doing 
this
> and yor PRV will last a very long time.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757


David

Did you mean "flush the coolant"?   The PRV's seem to be particularly 
prone to rot if regular coolant changes are neglected. Flushing the 
brake fluid every couple of years is a darn good idea too though :) 
Cheers
Steve Abbott 




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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:56:50 -0000
From: "Chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Prototypes, legend and lore

 
 I have personally seen and or have the cars in the UK club:-
 
 Vin 510 BM Right hand Drive
 Vin 547 BA Still in Northern Ireland
 Vin 551 BA Originally sold to the far east, now back in UK.
 Vin 569 BM now in the final stages of being restored.
 Vin 731  In the Irish Republic
 Vin 737,752 RHD, 741,758 RHD, 780 ( RHD in Hong Kong) ,867 etc most in the
 UK.
 
 All the RHD cars with vins 12171-12181 were all re-vinned,  pre  500 cars
 ( Black Cars) Early cars are not uncommon in the UK.
 Indeed I have just fitted brand new "ex black car" engine, number 437 into
 one of my cars, it ran properly today for the first time in 21 years!
 
 
 Regards
 
 Chris Parnham  DOC UK





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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:19:13 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Battery cut-off switches?

I have one on my car, i bought it at www.specialtauto.com
I really dont have the need to use it i just installed it on my car for 
electrical emergencys or when i store the car.



Mark


On Sunday, December 21, 2003, at 01:20 PM, spaceace3113 wrote:

> Does anyone use them on their cars? If so what type and from where.
> I take my car out infrequently and almost always have to boost it.
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Come see all of my Photo's at my Website.
http://photos.yahoo.com/snextime




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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:29:32 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1800

In a message dated 12/21/2003 5:53:01 AM Central Standard Time, 
dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com (Bill Robertson) writes:
Some people claim Volvo "fixed" reported oil passage problems with
B28, but one of my factory manuals covering both blocks -- which goes
into great detail of differences in pistons, valves, and camshafts --
makes no mention of any difference in engine oiling system. I think
passages are the same. I also think many people who experience
lubrication problems simply failed to change their oil regularly.
I believe this is part right and part wrong.

After my first change of the camshafts the Volvo dealer service manager (a 
real pro, honest, but subsequently fired) told me that I HAD to change the oil 
every 3,000 miles -- in spite of the fact that the owners manual called for 
5,000 mile oil changes. I am sure it was coincidental, but the new camshafts 
lasted exactly 2984 miles before the cam lobes went out again. I still have the 
receipts to prove it! Both the dealer, the Volvo District Rep and their US HQ in 
Englewood, NJ refused to pay for the second replacement.

I refused to drive the car out of the dealership lot and as a result it sat 
there for 5 months. 
In the meantime, while I was on a trip to Sweden I called an old college 
buddy who had been the service manager at Volvo North America for 3-4 years. He 
gave me another name to call and after I had told that guy the story he told me n
ot to worry and gave me another name to call in NJ after I got back home. I 
did after I returned home and a few days later my PRV engine had new camshafts 
-- at no cost to me.  

During the discussions in Gothenburg I was told that there had been three 
changes since the introduction of the PRV engine: The heat treatment of the 
original camshafts had been too soft, the oil pump had been changed to one with a 
higher flow rate and some of the oil gelleys had been changed to better 
lubricate the cam lobes. This is all history and should be of no concern to a 
Delorean owner.

Imagine my chagrin when I was negotiating the purchase of my Delorean about 3 
years ago and saw a Volvo PRV engine under the hood! I was "stuck" on the car 
but sure as heck not on the engine, so I posted a message here about my 
concerns. I don't recall exactly how many responses I had, but everyone essentially 
said the same; that although they had heard about the early Volvo/PRV 
problems, they had been fixed before the first engines were delivered to DMC.

I bought it and have been happy with it ever since -- except for the damned 
water pump/distribution design, but that is another story!

Roger
# 1074


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:20:21 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Prototype Delorean AGAIN!

I was wondering if anyone acquired the big Delorean parts and car 
auction on EBay, i seen the seller closed the auction early.

Mark




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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:46:26 -0000
From: "stevetrimble52" <stevetrimble52_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Pigeon Forge

I guess all the snow and the talk about regestration for the Pigeon 
Forge show has me longing for summer. A few things about Pigeon 
Forge in the summer time. You better be prepared for long waits in 
traffic so having the cooling system in order would be imperative. 
Also the Smokies are not your average mountains and most roads have 
some very steep grades so braking will be important. The humidity 
will be starting im June so a/c will be a necessity. If you arrive 
on a weekday and can stay another day or two and leave on a week day 
the traffic out of town will be lighter. Even in "off" months the 
wait in traffic from I-40 to P.F. can be a hour. Oh by the way the 
county seat is Seiverville pronounced Severe-ville. Beautiful area 
of Tennesssee with hundreds of things to do and places to eat and 
you can get a drink in Gatlinburg. 
Steve T




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Message: 25
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:21:23 EST
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Prototype (and other early Deloreans)

In a message dated 12/21/2003 10:27:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
CBL302_at_dml_msn.com writes:

<< AHA !!
 I am starting to see a pattern here,a lot of those cars (pre vin # 
 649)were "sold" away from the American Market >>

The 80 DeLoreans that were sold in the middle east. I have a picture of three 
in a garage in Beruit. Several in UAE.
Does anyone have any VIN data on the middle east cars. I know that there were 
two dealerships in Saudia Arabia.

I would guess that DMC sold some these cars there.
Sincerely,
Michael



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