From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1811
Date: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:46 AM

There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. 4 x 10 - rear speaker replacement
From: "Robert Moseley" <>

2. Re: DeLorean snow plows and such
From: George DeLorean <>

3. Re: DeLorean snow plows and such
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

4. Re: 4 x 10 - rear speaker replacement

5. Supercharger is going to happen!
From: "mcookwwi" <>

6. just joined you Delorean Owners

7. Re: Lotus Esprit gearbox, same as the DMC
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

8. The new website is finally online.
From: jordan rubin <>

9. Howdy all
From: "wayofcain" <>

10. Re: What engine oil should I use?
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

11. The Great DeLorean Key Disaster
From: "cruznmd" <>

12. DMC Totaled - Need Insurance Value Help

13. Re: just joined you Delorean Owners

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:49:57 -0000
From: "Robert Moseley" <>
Subject: 4 x 10 - rear speaker replacement

Surely I am not the only one who thinks that the factory Craig
speakers SUCK. Maybe I am being a little harsh on these 22 year old
but they sound like crap and have zero bass.
Something HAD to be done.
I found a decent set of no-name replacements for $25.00.
I had a hard time finding any decent name brand versions of these
so I had to settle for the cheapies.

I checked my manual and it is very vaugue.
But basically it braks down like this:
I guess the folks at DeLorean figured no one would ever want to change
those fantastic Craig / Sparkomatic 25 WATT speakers so they sealed 
them in real good.
The rear panel is not only attached by a few screws, but the edges
are folded over the inside of the door trim and glued and held in 
by the actual door trim. The lower panels are RIVETED IN.
So, to completely remove the panel you would have to CUT it off,
and drill out the rivets.

For me this was not an option but I was determined to replace thos

So here is how I did it:

(1) First, pull out the rear carpet, back wall and the two wooden
electrical covers on each side, and pull off the door trim around
the entire top / rear of the inside of the door.
You will want to try to loosen as much of the panel wrapping
around the edge as you can.

(2) At the tops of each rear panel you will find a phillips screw 
and remove it. 

(3) Now simply pull off the covers over the seat belt loops.

(4) Use a wrench or a socket to remove the seat belt loop and 
set it aside. Take the bolts and spacers out so you don't loose them.

(5) Now it is down to simple muscle and destruction.
The rear panels are made of fiberboard and then wrapped in vinyl.
Basically, you will need to muscle them back away from the wall
and BREAK them in half - yes, I actually bent them back that way.
The board will bend or even snap, but the material covering it
will simply pull away a little, so when you push the board back
and smooth it out you can't even tell that anything ever happened.
You need to pull it back just enough to get to the speaker.

(6) The speaker is held in place by a clamp that is mounted
to the side of the car and cradles the speaker in a 3-prong holder.
The speaker attaches to that using a simple hose clamp around the
magnet. Use a STUBBY FLAT HEAD SCREW DRIVER to loosen the screw
and the speaker can be pulled right out.
There is plenty of cable to work with.

(7) Before putting everything back make sure to hook up your
new speakers and try them out and make sure it is working.
I used a pair of pliers to pinch the connections tight first.
Wrap the hose clamp loosely around the mount and set the speaker
in it and tighted the screw up.

(8) Push everything back into it's place. 

OK, ok, I know I will catch some flack about this one because
it is not the correct way to do this, and it does cause some damage
even if it can't be seen.
However it worked for me.
Be advised, if you pull to hard you could go to far and cause a 
rip in your material or etc... I am not responsible for your actions
so don't complain to me if you damage your panel.
This is just the method I used to do it and now I have new
speakers in the back.

So how does it sound?
It still sounds like crap.
4 inch speakers in the front, with 4x10's in the back... SUCKS.
There is no doubt that I will be pulling out the console and running
some power and audio cables to the rear where I will be building a 
custom made to fit speaker box.
More on that to come.

In the meantime, good luck with your speakers!

- Videobob
VIN# 5278


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:05:49 -0800 (PST)
From: George DeLorean <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean snow plows and such

To add on,
          there was a LMC manufacturing plant not too
far from here in Salt Lake in Logan, Utah. 
Interesting tidbit.

                     George DeLorean

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:14:39 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean snow plows and such

Aside from being in Utah, LMC wasn't sold until years after DMC collapsed. Although 
it did have a breif change of ownership in 1985 durring John and Christina's divorce 
(which the employees used to gain their only pay raise, I've been told).

If you're looking for an interesting chapter in the DeLorean saga, look elsewhere. 
Aside from being owned by JZD, and where a customer once traded in a DMC-12 as 
partial payment for a snow groomer (perhaps this is the car JZD mentions as being 
owned by him in his letter to Tamir), there is absolutely nothing of interest there. LMC 
was used by JZD over the years as his source of income, but he never visited the plant. 
In fact, the only one whom ever did visit on his behalf was Roy Nesseth.

Unless you've some facination with snow grooming equipment, like some do with 
tractors, you're gonna be pretty damn bored. It's just a company that built snow 
groomers & cats. That's all.

However, if you want a bit of useless trivia, know that LMC equipment is regarded as 
being well-made, easy to repair, and easy to find parts for, as it is universaly 
compatible wth many aftermarket components/parts.

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, BondAtomic_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Alright, well after a bit of reading, a rough story:
>     John bought a snow grooming company, and then renamed it Logan 
> Manufacturing Company, or LMC, after the city of the company's origin, Logan, 
Ohio. They 
> made LMC a branch of DMC, and when DMC was going under, John sold LMC. LMC 
> then went bankrupt around 2000. 
> A short story, but I try my best.
> John
> 4275
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:10:53 EST
Subject: Re: 4 x 10 - rear speaker replacement

In a message dated 12/28/03 10:43:28 AM Central Standard Time, writes:

So how does it sound?
It still sounds like crap.
4 inch speakers in the front, with 4x10's in the back... SUCKS.
There is no doubt that I will be pulling out the console and running
some power and audio cables to the rear where I will be building a 
custom made to fit speaker box.
More on that to come.

In the meantime, good luck with your speakers!

- Videobob
VIN# 5278

check out my solution to the stereo problem at my cardomain website:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:07:00 -0000
From: "mcookwwi" <>
Subject: Supercharger is going to happen!

I just purchased a Vortech V-1 A-Trim supercharger. So the project 
begins...if anyone has any input or suggestions of ANY kind for me 
before I get started, PLEASE let me know!

Thank you,


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:13:03 EST
Subject: just joined you Delorean Owners


I just purchased an '83 Delorean this morning and drove it home with no 
problems.  It took me 17 years, but I finally acheived my dream.

Dean Thomas

VIN # ************16259

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:41:53 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Lotus Esprit gearbox, same as the DMC

--- In, MichaelRPack1_at_dml_c... wrote:
> Dave,
> Have an 89 Lotus Esprit gearbox, same as the DMC. Renault called it the UN1 
> Here is a link that has some technical info about the Renault gearbox,

In my search for transaxle upgrades, I too have run across this page. Beefing up the 
input shaft is effective in it's goal, but probably isn't a good idea in the long run. Most 
likely, the reason that the input shaft is prone to breaking under heavy torque, is 
because it most likely was designed as a fusable link to prevent damage to the entire 
gearset under constant strains and jerks.

One car builder in the UK had a website up for a project car that he built in '97, and 
used the UN1/Rover V8 combination for his powerplant and drivetrain. Cranking out 
around 500bhp, he stated that he never had a problem at all with his input shaft, 5th 
gearset, nor any other associated components. I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager 
that his finaldrive had the proper gear ratio on the differential to handle what the 
motor was able to throw out to it. Which is the very problem that we have with our 

Allot of the information on the 'net available in English is quite limited. Infact, I've 
found that aside from someone's own journal entries about their personal experience, 
the same info found is constatnly copy/pasted from one web page to another. If you 
want to delve deeper into seeking more info, you gonna need to learn French and 

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:01:51 -0800 (PST)
From: jordan rubin <>
Subject: The new website is finally online.

Hello all:

    The 2004 website is now online along with all of
the delorean howto's.  Some of the links have changed
and may require you to update your bookmarks.  The
delorean area looks much like the old one as I havent
completed the new look to change it to, but wanted to
keep the content  available.

   I can now be reached over any H323 compatible
videophone program.  More information is available on
the page.

   Thanx for all of the feedback, alot of feedback
will be reflected in the changes of the new delorean

happy new year



Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:12:03 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <>
Subject: Howdy all

I just discovered this group last night. I own vin 002835. It's 
nothing special, just your average Delorean.

I was wondering if there are any other owners on here in my vicinity? 

I am in Springfield, MO. I have made a few friends on other Delorean 
forums but unfortunately no one is near me.



Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:12:45 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: What engine oil should I use?

--- In, "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> I just had this long discussion with John Hervey at SpecialTauto tonight....
> We were discussing the "best" oil filters, etc, (which may be revealed in 
> another post)
> but we both came to the conclusion that you should use what is recommended 
> in the manual
> which is 20/50.
> The lower grades are for very low climates, and last I checked Alabama does 
> not keep an
> average temperature of 14F and below, which is the temperature you would use 
> a 10W grade in.

What grade of oil one should use in an engine is determined by the engine's 
requirements, NOT the oils!

20w50 is good if you operate your DMC in low, triple diget temperaqtures, *and* you 
drive the car constantly hard. Otherwise, you'll start to notice more hard starting, 
longer warm-up times, and poor gas milage. In fact, the only time that I've NOT seen 
hard starting with 20w50 is when the temp stays within triple digets. Once it hits 90 
or lower, my car becomes more sluggish. Which is pretty much why this heavy of an 
oil is so far at the top of the scale. After all, it's not like your towing anything, and too 
heavy an oil can reduce cooling and lubrication properties.

A better choice that allows for more flexability is 15w40 for warmer climates, and 
10w40 for cooler/gentler driving. The engine will start MUCH easier, and will keep 
good gas milage. Depending upon how cold it gets in the winter, you may want/need 
to switch over to to 10w40 exclusivly. But that's a true YMMV thing.

Another great example of the engine dictating what oil to use is my mom's Ford 
Explorer. It's got the 4.0L OHV X motor. The manual dictates specificly that nothing 
other than 5w30 oil is to be used. Experimenting with 10w40 durring cold winter 
months, and hot summmer months, I can tell you that the thing performs bettter all 
around with the thinner oil. Better gas milage, and better performance on hills. So just 
as with any car, get the oil that the engine requires. If perhaps you need to place a 
vehicle onto a "Severe Duty" mantenance schedule, that's a better alternative. 
Comparing a 2-stroke motorcycle engine to a 4-stroke motor in a car doesn't even 
come close. Besides that, the Owner's Manual states that 10w40 is acceptable 
between 2-102F, not below 14F.

As for oil/gasoline additives, they're a total waste of money. Most of the time, rather 
than provide the miracles of car repair that they promise to perform, they just get 
caught in the oil filer, and get stuck there. Experimenting with CSL on a few cars to 
seal the nicks and groves in the cylinder walls did nothing more than part a fool from 
his money. No performance increse, no inproved gas milage, nothing. Take note that 
rather than a one-time repair that you could perform, these addatives demand that 
you become dependant upon their use...

Same thing with "Heavy Duty" oils. If you're really putting that much strain/continual 
use on your motor, it's time to switch to a "Severe Duty" maintenance schedule.

Besides that, if your motor is in such bad shape that it's lost compression with either 
the pistons, or the valves seating, it's time to either tear the motor down for a rebuild, 
get to the junkyard to get another engine one with less miles, or trade the car in.

As for oil filters, Purflux all the way. If you're in a bind, and need one in an 
emergency, you can use either a Mobil-1, or BOSCH filter. But sticking with what the 
manufacturer reccomends is your best bet.

Is the PRV a hot running engine because it's aluminum? I've never heard that one, but I 
doubt it. With a cooling system in good condition, it runs just fine. It can run even 
cooler if one installs a 3-layer radiator, but that's a cooling system thing, not an 
engine issue.

Trivial Note: I've found that with many people that own classic cars such as the 
DeLorean, they can tend to think that the motors are running too hot. Typicly this isn't 
an actual problem with their car, but one they percieve because their reading a gague. 
220 is OK, because antifreeze, and a closed system that prevents expansion changes 
the boiling properties. Modern cars also run at these same temperatures, but to quell 
unfounded concerns, you'll notice that the coolant temp gagues on modern cars no 
longer list the temperature. Hence why many people percive that cooling systems on 
newer cars are more "efficient".

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:24:33 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <>
Subject: The Great DeLorean Key Disaster

Once again, Ken Creason has pulled my chestnuts from the fire and is 
cutting and mailing me keys to my car. (by code)

I'll ask this question to everyone:

Has anyone had success getting copies made at their local hardware 
store by using original keys or does everyone get theirs cut by code?
I'm no locksmith but to me, this is just a plain, Ilco X29 blank key, 
also used in Volvos(?)

BEFORE I lost my key, I spent 3 weeks bouncing around the local 
stores (Home Despot, Lower than Lowe's, and No Value) Are the people 
in my area just retarded or are these keys special somehow?

I'm not stupid. I knew I was tempting fate by running around with one 
key, but no one could operate their little computerized key cutters! 
I gave them my blanks, I let them choose their own blanks, and 
nothing! Granted, the machine operators were pimple-faced brats who 
can't even -spell- DeLorean, let alone cut a key for one. I wish 
someone around here used the old manual trace cutters.

I have a DMC repro key from Houston that I want to cut. It just seems 
silly to mail it around but if that's the way it has to be...(now I 
find out they could have cut it for me. Duh.)

Thanks in advance,



Message: 12
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 01:34:18 -0000
Subject: DMC Totaled - Need Insurance Value Help

Hi, D Owners,

I am in desperate need of your help in establishing a pre-accident
fair value and salvage value for my DeLorean.

I recently totaled my car and the insurance company is trying to get
me to settle for a very low valuation. I am not expecting to get more
than the car was worth but I would like to get a fair shake from the
insurance co so I can purchase another similar D without having to
cough up a few thousand $.

If you have recently purchased a DeLorean or have had the same
misfortune of having your car totaled, I would very much appreciate an
e-mail outlining the condition of your car and the price you paid or
settlement you received.  Additionally, if you kept the car and know
the salvage $, I would appreciate knowing the post-accident condition
and salvage value, as well. 

The insurance company is using the condition of the seats and the 2
dash cracks as a basis for appraising the car at several thousand
below book value, despite the otherwise excellent condition of the
car.  Thus, it would be helpful to mention the condition of the
interior, exterior and drive train of your car (at time of purchase or
prior to being totaled).    Stating mechanical problems or
body/interior defects will actually be helpful to my case with the
insurance co.


FYI, the condition of my car before the accident is as follows:

Stainless  excellent
Front Fascia  above average
Rear Fascia  average (needs repainting
Underbody  excellent
Frame  above average
Glass - excellent

Dash  average
Headliners  excellent (recently replaced)
Seats  average for age (need recovered or repaired)
Door Side Panels  excellent
Carpet  excellent (almost new)
Stereo  new

Engine  Excellent (2-yr old fuel components, mostly new gaskets, new
stainless muffler, new rocker arms, rebuilt starter, alternator)
Cooling System  excellent (new water pump, hoses, radiator)
A/C  excellent
Transmission  excellent
Clutch  excellent (new Centerforce)
Suspension  excellent (new idler arms, rear wheel bearings)

There have also been numerous improvements that are typically required
on DeLoreans (window operators, door handles, etc.)


After the accident, the condition is as follows:

All body panels except 1 door were damaged, front end crushed on
passenger side (sure took the bridge abutment well, tho), radiator and
a/c coil ruptured, wheels & tires damaged.

After having survived an interstate speed crash with only a little
scratch and sprained wrist after hitting 2 bridges and ending up at
the bottom of an embankment, I am very much impressed with the
crashworthiness of the D an am looking to having another soon.


You can e-mail me directly at  With you
permission, I will use your info verbatum to help convince the
insurance co. of the true value.

Thanks so very, very much for your help.



Message: 13
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:03:41 EST
Subject: Re: just joined you Delorean Owners

Welcome to the dream. I think you will find owning a "D" to be at worst the 
happiest time you have ever spent in an automobile.
Bruce Battles
Vin # 06569

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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