From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1843
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:04 PM

There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Continued: Cannot remove the front panel
From: ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: idle speed regulator
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

3. Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Fuel Counter Pressure on Bosch K-Jetronic
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. Re: mileage
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

6. under sealed at dmc?
From: "simonsays10002003" <simonsays10002003_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

7. Delorean Manuals
From: "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. newbie says hi
From: "bricki66" <Bricki_at_dml_web.de>

9. Re: '82 VINs moved to '83s?
From: "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. DW from DOA Bless them at the DOA!!!!
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com

11. Long Island - NY Check out DeLorean Mid-Atlantic
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com

12. Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Impulse Unit
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: idle speed regulator
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

15. Re: Mode switch vacuum hose routing?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. Re: under sealed at dmc?
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Delorean Manuals
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 03:01:34 EST
From: ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Continued: Cannot remove the front panel

Hello list


           I used three kind of screwdrivers and plastic spatula...however my 
panel
does not remove. When I try hard to push the panel, I hear braking sound from 
bottom of the A/C panel... 

          I will visit DMC in Japan for changing a clutch system, so I will 
ask them to 
remove  same time. Thank you very much anyone who helping and advising me.
I re-understand DML is really great source for Delorean owners.

Blacknight


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:23:30 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: idle speed regulator

CIS (Constant Idle Speed) system has been covered before (this is a
very good engine to search the archives):
http://www.dmcnews.com/search.html

But in a nutshell:

The idle speed motor serves the same purpose as variably cracking open
the throttle plates. This allows the engine to maintain a constant
idle speed through different conditions and loads.

There are actually five ways a PRV can breathe at idle:
1) Intact and properly functioning CIS system
2) Idle speed motor unplugged at an open valve position
3) Manual bypass circuit (brass screws in fuel mixture assembly)
4) Throttle plates cracked open with lower set screw
5) Vacuum leak(s)

You could have any or all of the above (except apparently #1). You
will simply have to diagnose.

My experience was a cantankerous CIS system: sometimes the idle speed
motor motor would stick wide open, other times it would stick fully
closed. I opted to remove the entire system from the vehicle --
including the ECU -- and idle with the manual bypass circuit instead,
which is how PRV's idled throughout the 1970's, before CIS was
developed as "bolt-on" addition. I also added an auxilliary air valve
for fast idle during engine warm up (pre-CIS PRV's had an auxilliary
air valve located in the same place as the idle speed motor, but I
re-located mine to the driver's pontoon for better access to the
ignition distributor and spark plug #4). Note that my PRV is NOT
factory original and is missing several sensors and switches from the
original CIS design (my idle speed motor was hard wired continuously
active).

If you ever want to try the same, please note that each brass screw
serves a different function. There is a specific procedure to set them:
http://f5.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kF4NQDgizdFF_GPGNCdooBMUIEMGgEADFkR43GWPi63sKuzYYLJ3DBDu3xTL6LGsO7m2GTOO8yd7mCcEF69194y6v0hKzxWY350/Idle.txt

(That's a VERY long URL -- if it doesn't click OK just eMail me off
List and I'll send you a copy).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc12hank" <henrik_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> Hi everybody!
> I have had my car for 3 years now, I realized this summer that the 
> idle speed regulator is disconnected. 
> Is this bad?



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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:26:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA

However, the car has not evolved that way.  Many of us
feel the DOA does not serve our needs, so we choose
not to participate.

The shame is that for the "Average Joe" who's first
exposure to the DeLorean Experience is though the DOA,
they are likely to be turned off by it.  This is my
only objection to the DOA, because they do try and
preset themselves as the official DeLorean group. 
(Much as some vendors try to present themselves as the
official source of parts and service).

If all of the average Joe DeLorean owners were to sell
today, and only to "Elite" types, you can watch the
price of your car fall to its stainless steel scrap
value.

The DOA should be thankful that the Internet has
become so active in keeping the dream alive, and has
allowed the "average Joe" to learn about the real
ownership experience.  Without it, I suspect REAL
values would be somewhat less than what they are now.

I note (Randal), your Email address is "MARTYDMC".  Is
this a BTTF reference?  I never saw Doc Brown as the
"Elite" type that you speak of.  I suspect most Elite
owners don't like BTTF references?  The evolution of
who owns DeLoreans (and why) NOW can be directly
linked to those of us that grew up with BTTF, and were
the first generation to enter the workforce and not be
afraid of computers (we embrace the Internet).


--- Randal Atamaniuk <martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP> 
> ... you're forgetting a very important element to
> the DeLorean and its 
> history.  This attitude taken, is what John
> DeLorean's original intention 
> and vision was.  How many times have we heard it,
> the DeLorean is a car for 
> the Bachelor who's made it.  The car went up against
> Covette, Mercedes, 
> Porsche and another elite vehicles.  This car wasn't
> intended for the 
> average Joe. 
> Randy Atamaniuk
> Vin #16353



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:45:28 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Counter Pressure on Bosch K-Jetronic

Actually counter pressure is controlled by the CPR. Bosch makes many
different CPR's that could bolt right up to the PRV, identified by the
last 3 digits in the part number (the ones stamped rather than cast
into the upper housing). Some exert more counter pressure than others,
or have a longer warm up curve. Not all have full throttle enrichment.
Check out John Hervey's CPR page (unfortunately no spec's):

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/warm-up-regulators.html

Another List member is currently running with my spare 038 series CPR
in lieu of his failing 066 series, no problems. It has lower final
counter pressure, and takes longer to warm up, giving him a generally
richer mixture (CO2 screw was leaned accordingly). Full throttle
enrichment is much less complicated than 066 series (one vacuum line
that simply tugs on the internal diaphragm at partial throttle).

I'd recommend finding a CPR with necessary specs.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> The idea that " boosts fuel pressure causing more fuel
> to be injected based on the same signals" may be
> correct on more modern MPFI systems, but I do NOT
> believe this to be true on our Bosch systems.
> 
> There is no "signal" for fuel.  The fuel is regulated
> by a mechanical valve which is controlled by air
> pushing down on a large disk. 



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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:10:23 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: mileage

Actually turning the CO2 screw clockwise (to the left) richens the
fuel mixture, and turning it counter clockwise (to the right) leans it.

What you're doing is raising or lowering the fuel metering piston
inside the fuel distributor relative to air sensor plate movement.

The CO2 screw has a 3mm hex allen head. You'll need a long pattern
wrench to reach it.

Remember that Lambda will counteract some effects of the CO2 screw
(engine warm, not full throttle).

Once (and only once) I saw with my own eyes properly functioning CIS
and Lambda systems compensate for a missing plug over the CO2 screw
acces hole! All other times it does indeed create a vacuum leak. Some
PRV's have a small metric bolt (4 or 5 mm) in this hole by design.

Without removing the cylinder heads, looking at your spark plugs is
indeed the only way to tell what's going on inside your cylinders.
Their condition can indicate improper fuel mixture, ignition timing
issues, vacuum leaks, ring wear, etc:
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-images/sparkpluglooks.jpg
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-images/sparkplugana.jpg

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Louie Golden <louie_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> My car gets roughly 20 city and 30 highway.......
> To lean the car out remove the airbox which houses the air filter.
  ........Anyways, after removing the plug you simply stick an allen
head wrench down into the hole and you will find the fuel adjustment
screw. I can't remember the size of it off the top of my head...
sorry. To lean the car turn the screw left, to richen the mixture turn
it right. 



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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:08:52 -0000
From: "simonsays10002003" <simonsays10002003_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: under sealed at dmc?

hi i have been looking at buying an 1983 delorean and have seen a 
couple now the one thing iv noticed is that the late cars seem to 
have a thin black underseal where as the early cars al most never do 
there still the gray por15 coating.is this just coincidence or were 
the later deloreans undersealed?




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:16:45 -0000
From: "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Delorean Manuals

Dear List,
  I am currently reading a book where a woman is restoring an old 
corvette and she is using a Haynes Automotive repair manual. I was 
wondering if there was anything like that for the DMC?
  I have the Delorean Workshop Manual. But did any other company come 
out with something like the Haynes?
  Just curious,
        Kramer
        ~10610




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:23:47 -0000
From: "bricki66" <Bricki_at_dml_web.de>
Subject: newbie says hi

Hi all,

I'd like to say "hi" to everyone of you guys. I'm a new, proud and 
for the first time owner of a DMC-12, VIN #4834.

I'm from germany, but bought the car from the Philadelphia area and 
imported it by myself to germany. Meanwhile the car has its 
registered plate and I've driven some miles so far.

Just yesterday I found a file on my computer from 1994, where I asked 
a DL seller to send me some pictures and further information! Whow! 
10 years ago.

Does anyone of you knows something about my VIN? As far as I know, 
the car was registered last time in 1996 in California, but it was 
sold mid of last year to the guy in Philadelphia where I found it.

Anything helps to complete the "cv" of my car.

By the way: The engine starts by only "showing" it the key, but when 
it's cold, I've to open the throttle a little bit for nearly a 
minute. Otherwise the engine dies in idle mode. When it's a little 
bit warmer after a minute, it's not a problem. Any idea?

with best regards

Peter "Bricki"
#4834








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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:09:35 -0000
From: "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: '82 VINs moved to '83s?

You guys must have a short memory, we had quite a disccusion on this 
one or two months ago...

>From what I understand, most of the 83's were 82 vin cars.  Some of 
these were already built when the factory went bust before 
Consolidation took over manufacture.  The idea was to re vin these 
cars so they could be 83 year models, thus making the cars newish, 
and not last years model.  Of course there may have been a few cars 
that didnt meet standards, and thus they were included in the 83 re-
vinning if they were brought up to snuff.

The easy way to tell is if your VIN plate has rivets in it.  If it 
does, good chance its an 81 or 82.  If it does not have the rivets, 
these plates have been 'glued' on after the old vin plate (with a 
much lower #) was taken off, or on some of the last manufactured 
cars, didnt even exist.  If you ever get the chance to take a VIN 
plate off for whatever reason, there should be holes underneath where 
the rivets would have went, if the old VINS were actual from 82.

All this, and I dont even own a DeLorean. But its coming soon...

Tom Porter
Maine, USA

(Please correct me if I am wrong...)



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_u...> 
wrote:
> Back in July 1999 there was a thread asking whether 
> there were some '82 Deloreans which were reclassed as '83 
Deloreans.



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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:38:41 -0500
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: DW from DOA Bless them at the DOA!!!!

"Randal Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>... you're forgetting a very important element to the DeLorean and its 
>history.  This attitude taken, is what John DeLorean's original intention 
>and vision was.  How many times have we heard it, the DeLorean is a car for 
>the Bachelor who's made it.  The car went up against Covette, Mercedes, 
>Porsche and another elite vehicles.  This car wasn't intended for the 
>average Joe.  Just because DeLoreans are more affordable today, than they 
>would have been in 1981, doesn't mean they should be treated that way.  It's 
>not a right to own a DeLorean, but a privelage.  And the DOA continues to 
>respect that ideaology.
>
>Randy Atamaniuk

Well done Randy! I wish them at the DOA & the all of the all the best. It would be nice to see if ALL of the memberships could combine efforts!!!!!!!!

Michael"senator"Pack



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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:38:49 -0500
From: MichaelRPack1_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Long Island - NY Check out DeLorean Mid-Atlantic

Hi,
That is a great idea for a DeLorean club. However there is a well-established Mid-Atlantic DeLorean club. The club has a strong membership, technical socials, the wonderful presence of Robert & Debbie Grady from PJ Grady Inc, enough DeLorean conversations to write a book, and lots of good people to socialize with!!!!

www.deloreanmidatlantic.com

Sincerely,
Michael "senator" Pack
VIN 20069





doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>Dear Fellow DeLorean Enthusiast,
>
>
>I am interested in starting a local Delorean club for the Long Island and
>New York area.



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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:42:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA

It's not that history has been forgotten it seems that the future history is
changing. And it's those kind of comments [both yours and the one you quoted]
that are revolutionizing the DeLorean community from an esoteric club to a more
accepting/open one which I call the Faded Asphalt Society. A place where the love
of the car is shared, not the status of the owners. The attendance shift from DOA
events to the DCS events is proof. Just because the initial intent of the
designer is not being represented in the owners doesn't mean that there is no
love and respect for the car. I know my D gets more TLC compared to my Civic,
Intrepid or Festiva. Who knows, maybe John DeLorean changed his mind. He sure
seemed to be enjoying himself amongst the average owners/enthusiasts in
Cleveland!

[average] 
Shannon Y [who feels privileged to own]
16506 [& treats it with respect]

---------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:03:44 -0700
   From: "Randal Atamaniuk" < martydmc12_at_dml_hotmail.com >
Subject: Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA

I've read many negative comments over the past few years on the mailing list 
and abroad about the DOA.  I have been a member myself for 10 years +, and 
have no intention of leaving, as many have done.  I think based on comments 
like this one here...

"Instead of this main audience, the DOA has chosen a TARGET AUDIENCE... 
those who are really more interested in a lifestyle than a car. They want to 
flaunt DeLorean ownership as an experience akin to being a member of an 
elite country club which has an exclusionary membership policy"

... you're forgetting a very important element to the DeLorean and its 
history.  This attitude taken, is what John DeLorean's original intention 
and vision was. 
  It's not a right to own a DeLorean, but a privelage.  And the DOA continues to respect that ideaology.

Randy Atamaniuk
Vin #16353 



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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:33:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Impulse Unit

Reference M:07:01-02 relay #32 (impulse unit) AKA Door Lock Relay. It
is best if you leave it disconnected as they have a high failure rate.
When it fails it will lock you in the car and burn out the door
solenoids and drain the battery flat. The downside of disconnecting it
is that the "Central Locking Feature" will no longer work. You will
have to lock and unlock each door manually either with a key or the
lever inside. If you wish to regain the function you are left with the
choice of either upgrading the "impulse unit" by rewiring it or
getting a Lockzilla from P. J. Grady. In any case leave the "impulse
unit" disconnected. You may want to go through the fuse box and clean
all the fuses, make sure that the correct size fuse is in the correct
spot, upgrade the cooling fan and blower circuit breakers, get rid of
the blue fan fail relay (#25) and if it is already gone then the
jumper harness that was meant to "temporarly" replace it should be
tossed also for a Fanzilla. Call any of the venders and they can talk
you through all the things you should do in the fuse box area.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "jdub" <doki_pen_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> 
>      I was looking through the fuse box on my D and noticed that the
> "impulse unit" was disconnected.  What is this thing? Do I need to
have it
> connected? Thanks!
> 
> Jon
> #3215




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:36:41 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: idle speed regulator

It can be a big deal to undo all the problems that are preventing the
idle motor from working properly. If you are happy with the way the
car is running then leave it for now. When you do a master water pump
service and have the engine apart on the top that will be the time to
try to get everything going correctly.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


> dmc12hank wrote:
> 
> >Hi everybody!
> >I have had my car for 3 years now, I realized this summer that the 
> >idle speed regulator is disconnected. 
> >Is this bad?



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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:45:50 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Mode switch vacuum hose routing?

Refer to Workshop Manual N:08:15 the upper table. It would be easy if
you have a Mighty Vac or other suitable vacuum source to see which
hose controls which actuator, then you wouldn't need the color codes.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Does anyone on the list know of the correct vaccuum hose routing for 
> the hoses for the Mode switch.  (which color goes where etc.)
> 
> Thanks
> Michael
> 2944




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:44:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: under sealed at dmc?

All of the DeLorean frames were coated with an epoxy. 
The later cars were also undercoated by conventional
means.

It is not a coincidence.

--- simonsays10002003 <simonsays10002003_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> hi i have been looking at buying an 1983 delorean
> and have seen a 
> couple now the one thing iv noticed is that the late
> cars seem to 
> have a thin black underseal where as the early cars
> al most never do 
> there still the gray por15 coating.is this just
> coincidence or were 
> the later deloreans undersealed?



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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 02:41:53 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Delorean Manuals

No, they sure didn't.  You should also invest in the 
parts manual - it is more helpful when you need to understand
how things come apart and go back together.

--
Mike


> Dear List,
>   I am currently reading a book where a woman is restoring an old 
> corvette and she is using a Haynes Automotive repair manual. I was 
> wondering if there was anything like that for the DMC?
>   I have the Delorean Workshop Manual. But did any other company come 
> out with something like the Haynes?
>   Just curious,
>         Kramer
>         ~10610



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