From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1849
Date: Sunday, January 25, 2004 2:39 PM

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: need help - reliable denver mechanic
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>

2. Re: Re: won't start
From: advantics_at_dml_aol.com

3. Open Message Re: Flame Mail Off List
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. Re: Hub nut size
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

5. Re: Re: Hub nut size
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

6. RE: won't start
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

7. Re: Re: Replace fuse block with circuit breakers?
From: "Andrei Cular" <acular_at_dml_tampabay.rr.com>

8. Re: won't start
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: Frame Cleaning in winter
From: "anaheim_21" <anaheim_21_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

11. D in game (FYI)
From: "Nun Yah" <joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. RE: Re: won't start
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

13. Re: won't start
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

15. RE: Re: New Photos! BTTF-3 DeLorean
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jack_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>

16. DVD on eBay
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>

17. Re: Re: won't start
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>

18. Gas Flap Hood For Sale?
From: "Robert Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:49:52 -0000
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: need help - reliable denver mechanic

Hi there,

For a good Denver Mechanic, I was talking to Richard Cutter via email around
1999 who is based in Denver Colorado.  He bought a DeLorean and installed a
Northstar V8.  I cannot find the website and address but he runs his own
garage doing engine and conversion work mainly on Pontiac Fiero's.  I am
sure he knows his way around the DeLorean having changed the engine.  DMC
Houston's website say that he is a client so they may be able to give you
the contact details.

Good luck

Regards

Chris Hawes

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "colleenkissinger" <middlsis1_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: [DML] need help - reliable denver mechanic


>   Hello,
>    I'm trying to help my step-mom find a reliable mechanic for her
> DL. Could someone on this list refer us to a good mechanic in Denver/Aurora Colorado?



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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:11:18 EST
From: advantics_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: won't start

The pump is running and I am getting spark. I have fuel going to the fuel 
distributor, but when I pulled an injector, I had no fuel. Thinking the injector 
may be plugged, it removed it from the hose and had no fuel there either. 
Could it be a bad distributor, since fuel is getting to it but not coming out?

John 
5326 & 1383


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:12:56 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Open Message Re: Flame Mail Off List

Moderators may not realize this, but there is a significant amount of
flame mail sent directly to members off list. I receive at least one
per week. My recent CIS post generated 3.

These messages really aren't worth reading, but I do anyway. Doing so,
I've noticed several universal characteristics among them, no matter
the sender:
- The tone is stunningly negative. Some are written in all caps.
Exclamation points are by far the most popular punctuation symbol.
- They depend exclusively on ad homimem character attacks vs reasoned
logic, empirical evidence, etc.
- The sender ALWAYS claims to be writing on behalf of either the
entire DML, or the entire DeLo owning community.
- They usually conclude with an admonition to either never post to the
DML again, or sell the car.

I've also noticed that the frequency of such messages is increasing,
and worry this is symptomatic of a general shift towards negativity
pervading our entire culture.

I would like to remind all flame mail senders of the following:
- Every message to the DML is approved by a moderator. If you feel a
message was allowed in error, the moderator is the person to complain
to. Obviously the poster meant for it to be posted.
- Attacking a person's character is only useful if his or her
character is the focus of your argument. A person's character has
absolutely no effect on metal objects, electrical circuits,
lubricating fluids, etc.
- The best way to speak on behalf of the DML would be a survey open to
all members. I have no idea how to speak on behalf of the entire
global DeLorean owning community.
- In the end, a person's car is his or her own property to use as he
or she wishes. Your right to dictate usage ends where his or her hood
begins.

The CIS vs CI thread was closed just as I found a flat bed scanner in
town to upload some factory manual pages! I am going to upload them to
#5939's photo album anyway for these other historically interesting
reasons:
- A 1979 CI page clearly shows that Lamda was not used at that time,
even on North American imports.
- A 1983 CIS page explains the funny "shear head" balancing screws
used on later intake manifolds.
- I will upload a page showing the auxilliary air valve used for fast
idle before CIS was developed.
Look for them later tonight.

There's an old saying down South: you catch more flies with honey than
you do with vinegar. It means: you are more persuasive with a
tastefully executed argument than a bitter one. Something to remember
the next time a flame mailer wishes to respond to a DML post. If the
response is tasteful enough, the moderator may even let if through for
everyone to see.

Bill Robertson
#5939







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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:29:28 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hub nut size

32mm

Kramer wrote:

>Dear List,
>  I need to know the socket size for the hub nut.



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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:31:36 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Hub nut size

I would suggest turning to the right and working from the rear - this 
way you are working down and when the thing lets go, you wont end up 
smacking the wheel arch with whatever bar you've used to extend your 
wrench with.

Strange this - the DOC list is full of angle drive discussions at the 
moment too!

Martin

content22207 wrote:

>Angle drive is removed from the rear. Takes a 1.25" or 32mm open end
>wrench. Will be torque'd pretty tight (I used a hydraulic floor jack
>to lift the wrench). Turn the wheel to the left for better access.
>





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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:50:28 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: won't start

John, Unplug the cold start and try to start the car. If it doesn't start
then take out a plug and see if it has gas on it and the condition. If there
is gas then check for 600 + or - on the pulse coil. If that's there and you
say you have fire to the plugs then call me.
There pictures on the web site reference as to where to check or under
engine parts.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com
Tech help from am till 9 am till 9pm 7 days a week.




-----Original Message-----
From: painintheass7565 [mailto:advantics_at_dml_aol.com]
Subject: [DML] won't start


Everything was going great with VIN 5326 and yesterday it would not
start after not having any problems. It almost seems like its not
getting any fuel,



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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:35:34 -0500
From: "Andrei Cular" <acular_at_dml_tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Replace fuse block with circuit breakers?

It really is not that difficult to replace fuses with breakers.  Since the
factory already did all that work and put in the correct fuse.  All you need
to do is pull out the fuse and replace it with the same size breaker.  The
only thing you need to determine is Fast, Normal, or Slow Blow.  And based
on my car all the fuses in the block are normal.

If anyone wants more info or help finding the correct breakers contact me
off the list.  I can put you in touch with one of our reps.


Andrei




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: [DML] Re: Replace fuse block with circuit breakers?


> If you are planning to replace the fuses with circuit breakers you
> must calculate the correct size breaker to replace the fuse which
> involves considering the current carrying capacity of the wiring, the
> size and type of load, and whether it is an intermittant load or a
> continuos load.



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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:15:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: won't start

Check your electrical area behind the passenger seat.  I had a crazy problem where my brown starter cable kept disconnecting.  We stripped the wiring, placed a new head on it, hooked it back up, and I never had a problem since *knocks on stainless*.  I had the same symptoms: lights would come on, turn key, and just a "click"..no crank whatsoever.  Maybe your starter wire is loose?


painintheass7565 <advantics_at_dml_aol.com> wrote:
   Everything was going great with VIN 5326 and yesterday it would not 
start after not having any problems.



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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:48:38 -0000
From: "anaheim_21" <anaheim_21_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning in winter

Ramon:

Where did you get your frame sandblasted?  What is the process and 
how much did it cost?

--Greg




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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:35:13 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Randal Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_h...>
wrote:
> I've read many negative comments over the past few years on the
mailing list 
> and abroad about the DOA.  I have been a member myself for 10 years
+, and 
> have no intention of leaving, as many have done.  I think based on
comments 
> like this one here...
> 
> "Instead of this main audience, the DOA has chosen a TARGET
AUDIENCE... 
> those who are really more interested in a lifestyle than a car. They
want to 
> flaunt DeLorean ownership as an experience akin to being a member
of an 
> elite country club which has an exclusionary membership policy"
> 
> ... you're forgetting a very important element to the DeLorean and
its 
> history.  This attitude taken, is what John DeLorean's original
intention 
> and vision was.  How many times have we heard it, the DeLorean is a
car for 
> the Bachelor who's made it.  The car went up against Covette,
Mercedes, 
> Porsche and another elite vehicles.  This car wasn't intended for
the 
> average Joe.  Just because DeLoreans are more affordable today, than
they 
> would have been in 1981, doesn't mean they should be treated that
way.  It's 
> not a right to own a DeLorean, but a privelage.  And the DOA
continues to 
> respect that ideaology.
> 
> Randy Atamaniuk
> Vin #16353

WRONG! None of this is correct! The idea that the DeLorean was a car
for, "...the horny bachelor who's made it." did NOT come from John De
Lorean! This was an off-color comment that was made by Lotus engineers
that were working on the DMC-12 project. And the idea that the
DeLorean is/was intended to be a car for the elite members of society
is complete bunk. Intended production rates for the DMC-12 were
scheduled to be around 30,000+ units per year, EVERY year. Those are
hardly figures that indicate a car manufacturer intends for a vehicle
to be of a limited production. This isn't Ferrari. DMC's intention was
to sell a vehicle to anyone, and everyone who could buy one, not
whomever they deemed "worthy" of ownership.

The real, if not only "vision" that JZD had for people whom owned one
of his cars was that they build an aftermarket communications network
for both information distribution, and social interactions in order to
make  ownership more fufilling, and purchasing a car more inticing to
potential customers. And the only "idea" that was in place to
establish membership eleigibility was really just
ownership/enthusiasim, not someone's individual social/financial
status. Infact, it's been stated by DeLorean that he hated the idea
even back in the 60's that only old men with money could afford to buy
higher end cars, while young people whom would actually be the ones to
enjoy, and really appriciate the cars, were barrred from owning them
because of the high prices they couldn't afford.

Was the car intended for the "Average Joe"? I'd say so. A simplified
building process, utilizing a majority of commonly available,
universal parts and components, vs. more exotic cars while use
components that are mostly hand-tooled. And then there's reliability.
An intended 7 year bumper to bumper warrranty was planned, along with
a 25 year anti perforation guarantee on body pannels, AND an intended
SS chassis on the way. Versus other cars which require tune-ups that
cost $1,000s of dollars, require overly frequent maintenance, and
had/have warranties that don't exceed 24 months. Judging by this, the
DeLorean was most definatly a car that was built for the long term car
owner who wants to get the most bang for their buck. Someone whom
isn't easily duped into thinking that the higher the maintenance costs
on a car become, the more of a "status symbol" it becomes.

And what the hell do you mean by, " Just because DeLoreans are more
affordable today, than they would have been in 1981, doesn't mean they
should be treated that way."? Exactly what are you getting at? I am
genuinly curious.

I know that you're not a designated spokesperson for the DOA, so I'm
not going to hold your words against them. But if you are correct in
stating that this is what they not only stand for, but wish to
preserve this kind of descrimination against current, and potential
owners, then I will truly be very sorry to hear that...

In any case, you've got to realize that other than a strong desire to
be different, there is no possible way to classify what a DeLorean
owner is, or isn't. We come from all walks of life, we all vary in
age. We're engineers, entertainers, bankers, entrepreneurs, service
industry workers, police officers, students, good 'ol boys (& girls),
and even occasionally a criminal. We're somebodies, and nobodies. But
one thing remains: We're all DeLorean owners.

The only thing that will ever determine our "privilege" to own our
cars, shall be our ability to physicly posses one. Nothing, and most
cetainly, no one else.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:20:39 -0000
From: "Nun Yah" <joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: D in game (FYI)

 I was just playing Resident Evil 3:Nemises, and came across a fairly 
good detailed DeLorean in one of the sences, it even had the DMC logo 
on the grill for a split second, but sadly it blew up.
                        Josh




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:52:16 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: won't start

John,
If you have a Vacuum leak or the 02 setting is adjusted to lean the air flow
meter won't go down far enough to raise the control plunger in the fuel
distributor to allow fuel to go to the injectors.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: advantics_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:advantics_at_dml_aol.com]
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: won't start


The pump is running and I am getting spark.

John
5326 & 1383



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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:40:00 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: won't start

It sounds like you are not developing enough fuel pressure. Go inside
the fuel tank and see if the fuel pick-up hose is collapsing or if it
is kinked or maybe it is split. If the fuel pump is not getting enough
fuel or if it sucks air you will not have enough fuel pressure. This
sort of problem is usually made worse when the fuel tank is not full,
the lower level of fuel makes the pump work harder and if there is a
hole in the hose it is covered by fuel until it gets low.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, advantics_at_dml_a... wrote:
> The pump is running and I am getting spark. I have fuel going to the
fuel 
> distributor, but when I pulled an injector, I had no fuel. Thinking
the injector 
> may be plugged, it removed it from the hose and had no fuel there
either. 
> Could it be a bad distributor, since fuel is getting to it but not
coming out?
> 
> John 
> 5326 & 1383
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:51:26 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: The Latest Issue of DW from DOA

As I remember it the Delorean was supposed to be the "ethical, safety
car". Early on Allstate was working with JZD on the Delorean to make
it safer. JZD also touted the fact that the car would never rust so it
would last a long time and not be "disposable" like many of the other
cars made in the same period. Couple that with the fact that it has
very good fuel economy for the period it was made and it appealed to
the masses. JZD was (IMHO) aiming at the people who would buy a
Corvette, not a Porsch. Unfortunatly the selling price got a little
too high for him to compete head to head with the Corvette. He did not
have the advantage of many divisions to spread the price of parts,
advertising, dealerships, etc. He had to price his car to make money
as it was the only model he had. He also had to amortize the huge
investment in the manufacturing plant and all the R+D that he had to
spend up front. Add the huge debt load and the recession and he got
caught in the timing. Just my Humble Opinion
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Randal Atamaniuk" <martydmc12_at_dml_h...>
> wrote:
> > I've read many negative comments over the past few years on the
> mailing list 
> > and abroad about the DOA.  I have been a member myself for 10 years
> +, and 
> > have no intention of leaving, as many have done.  I think based on





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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:24:48 -0500
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jack_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>
Subject: RE: Re: New Photos! BTTF-3 DeLorean

I have some props off that car I won off eBay.  It is interesting to see the
current condition of the car.  FWIW I have the overhead console with
switches and lights as well as the lighted part next to the Flux Capacitor.
And yes they are  right off that car, I have had them authenticated by a
BTTF prop collector.  They are neat props to have and be able to see them on
screen. The console can be seen best during the Indian chase scene.

Pix can be seen at www.sacketmansion.com/delorean and somewhere is the link
for the props.

Jack Stiefel
www.fmtimemachine.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Louie Golden [mailto:louie_at_dml_delorean.com] 
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: New Photos! BTTF-3 DeLorean

Universal still owns the white wall tire BTTF 3 DeLorean... it's rotting
away in their back lot. I wish they'd sell their BTTF DeLoreans to someone
who would really appreciate and take care of them.



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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:00:03 -0000
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: DVD on eBay

I was wondering if anyone has seen the DVD on eBay being sold by RCM?

Is it worth buying?

Thanks,

Dave & 6530

ps an update on the LINY~DMC:  Out of the 52 letters I sent, I have 
one "response" so far.  It was a "return to sender" from the post 
office!




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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:22:56 -0500
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Re: won't start

A $100 investment in a Bosch CIS fuel pressure gauge kit will solve your
problem.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <advantics_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: won't start


> The pump is running and I am getting spark. I have fuel going to the fuel
> distributor, but when I pulled an injector, I had no fuel. Thinking the
injector
> may be plugged, it removed it from the hose and had no fuel there either.
> Could it be a bad distributor, since fuel is getting to it but not coming
out?
>
> John
> 5326 & 1383



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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:25:31 -0000
From: "Robert Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Gas Flap Hood For Sale?

Does anyone know if there is a nice gas flap hood (with lines)
for sale anywhere, at any price?
Is there anyone who is willing to trade + (extra) for my a plain hood
with lines?
Let me know.
I want to buy.
- Videobob
VIN# 5278




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