From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1859
Date: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:10 PM

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: lost power
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Re: overheating
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: delorean rear anti roll bar
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

4. RE: Re: Brake Bleeder
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

5. Re: Re: Refurbished Fascias
From: "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>

6. Re: Fascia color?
From: "kenndeal" <kenndeal_at_dml_attbi.com>

7. Re: overheating
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. Battery and Strap
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

9. Re: Battery and Strap
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

10. RE: Re: Battery and Strap
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>

11. Re: DeLorean steering-Alignment
From: "simonsays10002003" <simonsays10002003_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

12. RE: Re: lost power
From: "PJ Grady" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

13. Re: Re: DeLorean steering
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

14. Locked out of car!! Keys inside. Anyway to get in???
From: "joeyoseppi" <joeyoseppi_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. DELOREAN STEERING
From: John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: DeLorean steering-Alignment
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 05:02:43 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: lost power

What do you have for the fan fail relay? Is it the origional blue one
or do you have a wire bypass? Have the 2 circuit breakers (one for the
cooling fans and one for the heater) been uprated? The origionals
should be replaced with higher capacity ones. ALL connections must be
clean and tight, not loose and overheated. From the overheat you
should check every vacuum hose for hardness and leaks. The electrical
problem at idle could be a bad battery, dirty/loose connections, loose
belt on the alternator, or a bad alternator. You should inspect for
the recalls and do them and the updates as you can afford. Because of
the electrical problems you may have a failing shift computer. It is
repairable inexpensively. Again I suggest you do ALL the external
on-car adjustments for the trans including fluid level checks both for
the transmission AND the final drive.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Darryl Givens <mydmc5898_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I called PJ Grady awhile ago close to two years when I first bought
my D. From what I was told by the previous owner is that the garage I
currently take the car to is the one in which the trans was put back
in. But PJ Grady's apprenelty only rebuilt it. I called and gave them
two names but they didn't have anything. The trans never gave me a
problem until a little while age. 
> The deal with the lock up was that these other guys who
worked/messed up my car allowed the car to run, when I told them the
cooling fans were not coming on all the time. They turned the car on
for some diagonostics and walked away only to come back 20min later to
find the car smoking and turned off. I didn't find this out until I
paid 1,181 for the bill. (needless to say we are suing them) My garage
that it goes to got the car back up and running. But that was back in
March I 




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 05:12:22 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: overheating

Pressure test the cooling system. Replace the circuit breaker for the
cooling fans. Bleed the system of air. Make sure you have a 50/50
mixture of anti-freeze and it is not over 2 years old. Also pressure
test the radiator (header bottle) cap. The overflow bottle is a good
idea so leave it in. I recomend a Fanzilla to make the electrical part
of the cooling system more reliable. You may have to change the
ottterstadt switch to work better with the Fanzilla. Some switches
sold by some venders run the cooling system hotter. Others run cooler.
Best to get a new one when you order the Fanzilla. To further
bullet-proof the cooling system replace the radiator and every hose if
they are over 10 years old. The air bleed fix is not really necessary
if you have a "tight" cooling system. It is useful only if you have
leaks and air gets in. A tight system, once bled, doesn't need it.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "funkstuf" <funkstuf_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Hi Group.
> Couple questions about this overheating business.
> My car has several items on it including the air bleeder hose fix.
> In addition, I've noticed that it doesn't have a stock antifreeze 
> tank, though it appears quite similar, and strangely, it has a 
> secondary antifreeze tank.  That is, the overflow hose from the 
> antifreeze tank goes to a second smaller antifreeze tank on the left 
> side of the trunk.  that second one then has a vented hose.
> apparentely someone had their own idea of how to solve the over 
> heating problem.
> Anyway,  The other day I drove the Delorean, then let it sit and run 
> a bit.  the car first heated to the middle (220, still in the white)
> previously the fans would kick on around this point.. No fans...and 
> engine continued to heat to the point it was going to overheat and 
> still NO FANS.. so.. I LET IT GET COMPLETELY COLD.  Then, as per the 
> advice of Mr. Hervey, I took the cap off of the antifreeze tank and 
> started the car and let it run for awhile.. I could see the 
> antifreeze circulating.  I then drove the car a bit and let it sit 
> and it begin heating up..
> It then heated up to 220 (Right in the middle) and when it went above 
> this, the fans kicked on and cooled it down to just below that center 
> point..  so what gives?  I thought if it had air the airbleeder hose 
> would bleed the air?  Any ideas besides air.. and also, is it normal 
> that fans should kick on right when it goes above the center line?
> If not, where should they turn on?
> No, I do not see any antifreeze in the exhaust, plus, I've got new 
> head gaskets and the oil appears very clean so I don't suspect a leak 
> there.
> 
> Thanks
> Dale Funk
> #4984




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 05:32:26 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: delorean rear anti roll bar

Simon - The DeLorean was produced without a rear sway bar.  Any that 
you see out there are after market installations, probably made by 
Addco Suspension Systems.  I have an Addco rear bar on Winged1, and 
the difference is astounding in terms of cornering ability and 
traction.  I must add that the standard Addco bar and attachment 
hardware doesn't fit very well, so I have made a number of 
modifications that have resulted in a very good installation.

Toby Peterson
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "simonsays10002003" 
<simonsays10002003_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> hi iv just been on ebay .com and noticed on a photo of a deloreans 
> rear end chassis and suspension etc it had a rear anti roll 
bar.the 
> thing is mine does not have this bar that goes from the one 
> suspension leg down and across the very bottom of the chassis 
below 
> the engine to the other side.is it supposed to thanks simon




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:14:12 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Brake Bleeder

I won't chime in but only to say I have the Motive Brake bleeder in stock.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/brakes-rotors.html




-----Original Message-----
From: v_davidj [mailto:v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:57 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Brake Bleeder


( It's been mentioned here before but there are instructions to build a
pressure bleeder at: www.bmwe34.net/e34main/upgrade/pressurebleed.asp.
moderator )


I have used these on a different car, and they are ok.  They
certainly make it easier to bleed your brakes if you don't have
anyone to assist you.  I would, IMHO, recommend the Motive Brake
Bleeder instead.
http://www.motiveproducts.com

(At the risk of sounding like an advertisement...)

I think it's much easier to use and helps to prevent you from running
your brake reservoir dry.  I also think that you can bleed your
brakes faster with the motive bleeder than with most anything else.
Another advantage is, you can use it on more than ONE car (given that
you have an adapter kit).

I know that a few of our excellent DeLorean vendors carry the Motive
bleeders.  I am guessing they will chime in.

My $0.02
Thanks!
Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, steve trimble <stevetrimble52_at_dml_y...>
wrote:
> Anyone know what size the brake bleeder valves are?
> Has anyone ever used a speed bleeder in their place?
> See www.speedbleeder.com. Seems like this would make
> brake maintenance a bit easier.
> Steve Trimble
> vin 3121
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/



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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:15:14 +0800
From: "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Refurbished Fascias

Just got back from California. Received my refurbed facias from Josh and
they look good. They are now on a Ship with the rest of my HongKong Project
rhd car on the way to Britain.

Cheers,         IAN
****************





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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 06:28:33 -0000
From: "kenndeal" <kenndeal_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Fascia color?

Check out this link I got from DMC News: 
http://personal.picusnet.com/dsontos/painting.html


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "jmlaux83" <jmlaux83_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> What color matches the original grey for the front and rear 
fascia? I 
> have the rear off so I might as well re-paint it.






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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:40:09 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: overheating

What most people call the "overflow" tank on a DeLo is actually an
"expansion" tank -- it is located on the pressurized side of the cap.
Sounds like your PO rigged up a secondary true overflow bottle. Note
that this bottle is useless without a different style cap (won't be
able to suck the coolant back through). Stock DeLo simply spits excess
coolant onto the pavement.

Re: cooling fans -- the otterstat does not energize the fans directly.
It sends a trigger signal to Relay #24, which then routes fan current
through a circuit breaker and the imfamous "fan fail module", before
going to the fans. After the fans the circuit is grounded to the frame.

Diagnose in that order -- with the car energized:
- Check for voltage after Fuse #5 (otterstat)
- Jump the otterstat. The fans should come on immediately. If they
don't, check for voltage to the otterstat. While you're down there
ensure the otterstat is mounted upside down. Apparently on some cars
that coolant pipe is rotated with the otterstat on top, which
reportedly allows an air bubble to get trapped underneath.
- If the otterstat has voltage but fans still don't spin, check for
voltage at Relay #24 (row closest to passenger seat, 2nd from
outside). Terminal closest to the seat is the big power line in.
Terminal closest to outside of the car is the trigger line in. If
these lines have voltage, run a single jumper from the power line to
the terminal closest to the rear of the car. Fans should come on
immediately (if the otterstat is still jumped).
- The cooling fans are protected by a circuit breaker located between
the relay banks and the fuse block (the other is for the blower
motor). You can either jump this breaker BRIEFLY to see if the fans
will spin, or simply unplug the blower motor leads and use that
breaker to test.
- Adjacent to Relay #24, closest to the outside, is the imfamous "fan
fail module". The original is blue in color. If you still have it,
that may well be your problem. The traditional fix is simply to
replace the module with a 3 way jumper. This fix generates a lot of
controversy, but you'll notice that DMC itself recommended doing the same!
http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/ST-06-9.82.html
- After the fan fail socket, the circuit splits into two lines, one
for each fan. At least one fan should now be spinning (all other
jumpers still in place). If you've got voltage to a dead fan's outside
terminal of the fan fail socket (rotated 90 degrees from the line in),
check for voltage at the fan itself, especially on the ground side.
The fans are grounded to the crumple tube, exposed to the worst road
elements. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "funkstuf" <funkstuf_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Hi Group.
> Couple questions about this overheating business.
> My car has several items on it including the air bleeder hose fix.
> In addition, I've noticed that it doesn't have a stock antifreeze 
> tank, though it appears quite similar, and strangely, it has a 
> secondary antifreeze tank.  That is, the overflow hose from the 
> antifreeze tank goes to a second smaller antifreeze tank on the left 
> side of the trunk.  that second one then has a vented hose.
> apparentely someone had their own idea of how to solve the over 
> heating problem.
> Anyway,  The other day I drove the Delorean, then let it sit and run 
> a bit.  the car first heated to the middle (220, still in the white)
> previously the fans would kick on around this point.. No fans...and 
> engine continued to heat to the point it was going to overheat and 
> still NO FANS.. so.. I LET IT GET COMPLETELY COLD.  Then, as per the 
> advice of Mr. Hervey, I took the cap off of the antifreeze tank and 
> started the car and let it run for awhile.. I could see the 
> antifreeze circulating.  I then drove the car a bit and let it sit 
> and it begin heating up..
> It then heated up to 220 (Right in the middle) and when it went above 
> this, the fans kicked on and cooled it down to just below that center 
> point..  so what gives?  I thought if it had air the airbleeder hose 
> would bleed the air?  Any ideas besides air.. and also, is it normal 
> that fans should kick on right when it goes above the center line?
> If not, where should they turn on?
> No, I do not see any antifreeze in the exhaust, plus, I've got new 
> head gaskets and the oil appears very clean so I don't suspect a leak 
> there.
> 
> Thanks
> Dale Funk
> #4984




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:38:09 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Battery and Strap

Hello all, I am looking through some autoparts store webpages and I
can't seem to find a direct replacement for the battery-so I ask,
which is recommended the best replacement to get? I know I can just
bring the battery in and have them pull the same one off the shelf,
but I'm just wondering which is the best. Also, I once noticed online
somewhere that there were notes and maybe a diagram on how the battery
is correctly strapped inside the compartment, only now I have
forgotten where online this was-does anyone know where I am talking
about? Thanks guys




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:46:54 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Battery and Strap

Interstate number is MT78. This is a VERY common side-terminal 
battery. For some reason 1978 Monte Carlo sticks in my mind, but 
there are a lot of cars that use this battery.

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> Hello all, I am looking through some autoparts store webpages and I
> can't seem to find a direct replacement for the battery-so I ask,
> which is recommended the best replacement to get? 




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:40:11 -0800
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Battery and Strap

ask for a group 78 battery, group codes are standardized

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Swingle [mailto:swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com]
Sent: February 4, 2004 8:47 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Battery and Strap


Interstate number is MT78. This is a VERY common side-terminal
battery. For some reason 1978 Monte Carlo sticks in my mind, but
there are a lot of cars that use this battery.

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> Hello all, I am looking through some autoparts store webpages and I
> can't seem to find a direct replacement for the battery-so I ask,
> which is recommended the best replacement to get?



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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:16:59 -0000
From: "simonsays10002003" <simonsays10002003_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: DeLorean steering-Alignment

hi dave you said at the end of your message that you should not have 
more than 5 washers on the trailing arm bolt mine has 3 on the one 
side and 6 or even 7 im not sure but its one or the other on the 
other side of the car,iv checked my rear wheels for alighnment with a 
very long straight bar both wheels match one another.just wondering 
whats happening hear if its a possible problem or not.

thanks simon




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:29:12 -0500
From: "PJ Grady" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Re: lost power

Hello Darryl,

If I recall correctly we have no record of working on this car or the
transmission. I'm wondering why our name was mentioned in your post since
the previous owners claim is unsubstantiated. This is typically how ugly
rumors start on the DML. BTW your problem sounds like a misadjusted or
damaged shifter cable which could probably be traced to the installer of
this "rebuilt" transmission. I hope this helps.


Sincerely,

Robert Grady


-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Givens [mailto:mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:10 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: lost power

I called PJ Grady awhile ago close to two years when I first bought my D.
>From what I was told by the previous owner is that the garage I currently
take the car to is the one in which the trans was put back in. But PJ
Grady's apprenelty only rebuilt it. I called and gave them two names but
they didn't have anything. The trans never gave me a problem until a little
while age. 
The deal with the lock up was that these other guys who worked/messed up my
car allowed the car to run, when I told them the cooling fans were not
coming on all the time. They turned the car on for some diagonostics and
walked away only to come back 20min later to find the car smoking and turned
off. I didn't find this out until I paid 1,181 for the bill. (needless to
say we are suing them) My garage that it goes to got the car back up and
running. But that was back in March I haven't drivin it that much we are
still tring to fix everything they touched. But could the engin now be
giving me trouble form this. I only put about 300 miles or so since I got it
back. I did have the cooling problem solved, new thermo switch, water pump,
and all new hoses for the cooling system but some of the hoses in the car
are the originals form 1981. I haven't had the time (school and work)  nor
funds (school and my Ford Tarus) to change them yet, but each part is
slowley being replaced that is out
 dated or dead. 
I also noticed that when the car was idleing in my driveway it seemed every
now and then that it was about to shut off, the lights (all of them) would
shut off for less then a second then flip back on, the cd player would skip
and shut off then return to working. So I assume that there is some power
loss. I have some records of the work down on the car since 1997, but I
can't find if there are any updates/recalls done to the car.
 
Thanks,
Darryl
5898


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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:39:43 -0500
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean steering

The only times I have seen threaded rods on a car, it was to control toe
or caster.
I've seen camber be adjustable by shims placed between the upper ball
joint and the hub.  

Jim

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:13:45 -0000 "content22207"
<brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net> writes:

...
> (cars with
> adjustable camber usually have threaded vertical rods between the
> lower control arms and other suspension components).


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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 02:16:10 -0000
From: "joeyoseppi" <joeyoseppi_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Locked out of car!! Keys inside. Anyway to get in???

I was selling one of my deloreans and the shipping company that is 
shipping it made the biggest mistake you could make. They locked the 
keys in the car accidentally. I told them to be sure to take the 
kays out as it was the only set. There is no battery in the car as 
it was being transported as non-running. But they accidentally 
pushed the lock button while fumbling with the door handle. The door 
isn't fully closed, just caught on the safety latches. So now they 
can't move my car, and they have actually said they might half to 
return it to me and just refund my money. Basically returning me a 
locked car with the keys inside saying they don't want to "mess with 
a vehicle of this caliber" Man I am getting seriously screwed here. 
Is there any way to get in safely or to get a door key cut from a 
VIN Number? If not I am SO screwed. If anyone has any miracle answer 
please let me know. Thanks oh so much.

Joe




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:01:41 -0800 (PST)
From: John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DELOREAN STEERING

Tires rub on front sway bar they are relatively new so are tie rod ends also installed new rack and pinion.  Size is correct P195/60R14 so what gives?????  I do need to get the alignment done but I doubt that could be the cause could it?????



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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 02:01:12 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean steering-Alignment

The alignment specs allow for only a maximum of 5 (1/16 inch each)
washers. Any more than that and it would indicate something bent. The
total # of washers can be more than 5 if some are less than 1/16 inch.
The main point is that the total correction cannot exceed 5/16 inch on
either side. There is also the limit on the length of the trailing arm
bolt. You won't have enough thread left for the nut to hold securely
if you stick too many washers on it. You do not have to have the same
# of washers on each side. Each side can have anywhere from none to 5.
After alignment I would use a magic marker and write the # of washers
on the frame next to the bolt on each side. This way if you ever
dissasemble the trailing arm bolt you have a record of what to put
back. You cannot accurately measure the thrust angle with a bar. You
really do need to use a 4 wheel alignment rack to get it right. Spend
the $80-$100 for a proper alignment. It is cheap insurance so you
don't burn up a set of tires and it will give you a better handling
car with a nicer ride. If you never had it done you should also have
the tires spin balanced off the car. An out-of-balance tire or a bent
rim will give you a very bad ride and it is bad for all the nearby
mechanical parts, it wears them out faster. A symptom of an out of
alignment thrust angle would be that under acceleration in a turn you
could experience severe oversteer besides uneven wear on the rear tires.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "simonsays10002003"
<simonsays10002003_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> hi dave you said at the end of your message that you should not have 
> more than 5 washers on the trailing arm bolt mine has 3 on the one 
> side and 6 or even 7 im not sure but its one or the other on the 
> other side of the car,iv checked my rear wheels for alighnment with a 
> very long straight bar both wheels match one another.just wondering 
> whats happening hear if its a possible problem or not.
> 
> thanks simon




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