From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1883
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:44 AM

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. 2 Questions...
From: "Gary Weaver II" <gw2tulsa_at_dml_cox.net>

2. RE: Re: Front rotor replacement
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

3. Re: Ignition key difficulty
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

4. Tab repair and a little info on #003299.
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: Re: Front rotor replacement
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: 2 Questions...
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Re: Engine Conversions -- Carbureted PRV (Robert)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. RE: Re: Cutting keys at the show?
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

9. RE: Re: Ignition key difficulty, rusty exhaust manifolds, trailing arm bolts, etc etc
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

10. RE: Ignition key difficulty
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

11. Re: Engine Conversions -- Carbureted PRV (Robert)
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

12. Re: More speedometer calibration nonsense & TAB status
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:46:58 -0000
From: "Gary Weaver II" <gw2tulsa_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: 2 Questions...

1. I always hear the same about getting a delorean that has been 
sitting for two or so years...

"clean the fuel system"

Is there some sort of Tech documentation to tell me just HOW to go 
about doing this? Is there something I can do quickly to make sure a 
sitting car will at least run smooth without tearing out and 
replacing the whole fuel system first?

2. What is the best method to remove paint from fenders? I'm not too 
worried about the Fascias, as I plan to replace them outright, but 
the fender are giving me fits...

Many thanks for any help you can give...

-Gary Weaver 





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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:03:02 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Front rotor replacement

The rotors I'm using are the regular OEM. When I was buying the a while back
John wouldn't split a set for me (I only needed fronts) so I got your plain
ones. I heard some grumbling from other folks about drilled rotors (noise,
extra cost, necessity, etc.) so I think I made the right choice. 

My fronts are warped and need replacement. I doubt I'll bleed the brakes
completely because that was done just recently thanks to a bad master
cylinder. New pads, shims, and springs are going on as well (and maybe some
others stuff now that I know what to keep an eye out for).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thebrave65 [mailto:johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:41 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Re: Front rotor replacement
> 
> Hi Travis.  The only other parts I can think of, are the pads,
> calipers, anti-squeal shims and dust sheilds.  Might as well bleed
> your brakes while you're in there if they haven't been.
> 
> Are you putting on the stock rotors or the vented ones from Mr.
> Hervey?  Just curious as I would like to do that myself.
> 
> Johnny
> 5518
> 
> 
> I'm getting ready to replace the rotors and I plan to go ahead and
> replace the wheel bearings while I'm in there. Are there any other
> parts I should consider replacing while I'm at it?
> 
> 
 



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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:26:04 -0500
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition key difficulty


Hi Matt,

  Just for the record, I have #1619 and a two key system - one "short" key for the doors, and a different (longer) key for the ignition and storage compartment.  I'd guess that somewhere along the line, your car was converted to a one-key system.

-Hank

----- Original Message ----- 
> My car is #1604, and while I thought the earlier cars had 2 key 
> systems, mine only uses one...well...sort of.  I can use the same 
> key for both doors, the ignition, and the gas cap.  When placing it 
> in the ignition though, it's very difficult to get it in, and 
> usually takes me about 10 seconds each time even after having the 
> car for 6 months now.  It does work, though.  What could I do about 
> this?  



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:42:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Tab repair and a little info on #003299.

  Rich, I'm going to tell you right off the bat that your story alone convinced me to check my TABS this week; I'm replacing them next week when I buy my new rack and pinion.  What happened to you was downright frightening; I'm glad the car is A-ok (and you ;) ).  I haven't even checked my TABs yet, but the guy I bought my car from had almost EVERYTHING original - alternator, fuel pump, oxygen sensor - heck - even the door struts were brand new.  So I'd be willing to bet even money that the TABs are original.  A quick $20.00 would be so worth avoiding this: http://dmcnews.com/Techsection/rollover.html.
 
For those of you who are interested, the following list is the repairs that have been completed so far.  As most of you know, I bought a "clunker" last November, which I thought was a "treasure for a song".  To say the least, the guy almost saw me in court considering a contract was written with specific details regarding the condition of the car.  Anyhoo, I learned several important lessons in life by buying this car, so in a respectful sense it's been a blessing to fix the car up.  To know I didn't just buy a "new" one, but I bought one that WAS headed to the scrap heap - it brings a real sense of accomplishment and dedication to this project.  I have thoroughly enjoyed bringing the car back to the road, and I have learned ALOT of patience when the car acts up, and we have to go in and figure out "WHY???".  Heh, I want to express my thanks to everyone for putting up with my questions.  From the respected to the ridiculous questions, alot of people here helped me - including the
 vendors.  Thank you all for your help, time, thought, and considerations - as well as those of you who have actually showed up at my door and took the time out to show and teach me, as well as help me put in parts, show me how tools work - and most importantly - help me get #003299 back on the road.  Anyhoo, here is the list - from Nov 18th 2003 - Feb 20, 2004:
 
1. Replaced oil filter 
2. Air filter 
3. Fuel filter 
4. Auto tranny filter 
5. Rotor cap 
6. Rotor distributor 
7. Spark plugs 
8. Spark plug wires 
9. Coil wire 
10. Ignition wires 
11. Alternator belt 
12. A/C belt 
13. Valve covers 
14. Oxygen sensor 
15. Control pressure regulator 
16. Frequency valve w/ss line 
17. Spinners are off tires 
18. Tranny completely rebuilt - specifically 1st gear, computer governor, torque converter, and vacuum modulator 
19. Rewired the otterstat 
20. Fixed the brown starter wires 
21. Cleaned numerous grounds 
22. Rewired the wiring around the microswitch 
23. Cleaned microswitch 
24. Added the SS coolant bottle with new radiator cap 
25. Fixed the idle control motor 
26. Replaced the battery with new MATCHING battery screws 
27. Fixed numerous, pathetic attempts at wiring in the electrical system 
28. Added a self-bleeding kit to the cooling system 
29. Replaced the shifter cable 
30. Had numerous sets of keys made and tumblers reset/cleaned 
31. New Alternator 
32. FanZilla 
33. New transmission mounts 
34. Fixed my turn signals 
35. Cleaned and retightened the ignition wiring 
36. Replaced all the fuses 
37. New front rotors 
38. New brake pads on front rotors 
39. Added a "lifetime" air filter 
40. Replaced the air hose directly underneath the coolant bottle 
41. Replaced some of the hosing on the coolant pipes 
42. New oil pressure sending unit 
43. Got my cargo net up (It was a tangled mess.)
44. Replaced my old otterstat
45. Replaced the thermotime switch
46. Caliberated the mixture screw correctly
47. Fixed numerous vacuum leaks
48. Replaced fuel pump
49. Installed the fuel baffle kit
50. Cleaned tires and the rims (They look SO good now.)
51. New Door Struts

I'm sure here and there I missed some things, but these were what have been discovered so far; and there's more to do.  I've noticed two things happen when you buy a DeLorean - 1.  The credit cards get maxed out ;) and 2.  Fix one thing and 8 more break.  SO, here is my list of what I'm working on before PF in June:
 
1.  Rack and Pinion
2.  Water Pump (It's not leaking, but I'm keeping my eye on it at ALL times.)
3.  TABs
4.  Wheel Bearings (bought - just need to get a hold of a wheel press)
5.  Rebuild the calipers (You were right, John!)
6.  A/C Motor
7.  Trunk Struts
8.  Engine Struts
9.  A/C Vent (1) needs to be replaced (The plastic flaps are loosely flopping around.)
10.  Headliners need to be refixed (on the sides)
11.  Wiper Blades (Yes...they are the originals)
12.  Louvers (Cracked)
13.  Windshield Washer Motor
14.  Tire Caps (They are unmatched right now.)
15.  Repaint Fascias
16.  Repair spedometer
 
*sigh of mixed relief* The list gets shorter...but...it keeps growing =/.  Well, I'd say 51-16 (fixed to unfixed) isn't so bad!  I hope everyone has enjoyed seeing this chronolology; I swear - I'm going to win the "Most work in the least amount of ownership time" award _at_dml_ PF!! (If there was one =) ).  See you all there!
 
Jeremiah
 
 



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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:47:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Front rotor replacement

I bought the stock front rotors from Mr. Hervey; they are fantastic.  I would have bought the vented ones, but with the list I printed in another message, I think you can understand why ;).
---------------------------
thebrave65 <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net> wrote:
Hi Travis. The only other parts I can think of, are the pads, 
calipers, anti-squeal shims and dust sheilds. Might as well bleed 
your brakes while you're in there if they haven't been.

Are you putting on the stock rotors or the vented ones from Mr. 
Hervey? Just curious as I would like to do that myself.

Johnny
5518


I'm getting ready to replace the rotors and I plan to go ahead and 
replace the wheel bearings while I'm in there. Are there any other 
parts I should consider replacing while I'm at it?




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:32:24 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: 2 Questions...

The best advice I can give on the fuel system is to drain the fuel
tank and wipe it out. This is best done before even trying to run the
motor. Inspect all of the internal parts and replace any that have
deteriorated or are missing. If the fuel isn't sludge then you should
be OK. Put in fresh fuel and replace the fuel filter after about 100
miles of driving. All you may need after that is to have the fuel
injectors cleaned and tested and maybe a new acccumulator. If the fuel
smells "dead" and there is sludge in the tank you can assume that you
have the same situation throughout the entire system. Now you will
have to dissassemble the entire fuel system and clean each and every
component.
 On a car that has been sitting the best way to go about restarting it
is to drain and replace ALL the fluid before trying to start it.
Expect the brake system (and clutch if a manual) to need a complete
rebuild as the brake fluid turns corrosive after many years.
 To remove paint from a painted S/S panel the easiest way is to mask
off and carefully use paint remover and a plastic squeegee. Just be
warned that you will also remove any body filler and the panel will in
all probability need to be regrained even if it is not damaged.
 You don't have to replace the facias, they can be refinished to look
like new. It is best to remove them to do it.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver II" <gw2tulsa_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> 1. I always hear the same about getting a delorean that has been 
> sitting for two or so years...
> 
> "clean the fuel system"
> 
> Is there some sort of Tech documentation to tell me just HOW to go 
> about doing this? Is there something I can do quickly to make sure a 
> sitting car will at least run smooth without tearing out and 
> replacing the whole fuel system first?
> 
> 2. What is the best method to remove paint from fenders? I'm not too 
> worried about the Fascias, as I plan to replace them outright, but 
> the fender are giving me fits...
> 
> Many thanks for any help you can give...
> 
> -Gary Weaver




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:58:31 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Conversions -- Carbureted PRV (Robert)

Ah yes, the Renault 6 pack. Imminently silly on a 171 inch engine.
I've uploaded a couple of pics to #5939's photo album if anyone wants
to see what they looked like.

Even the pedestrian R30 (early versions) used a funny dual carb setup
(a single barrel and a 2 barrel in series).

The engine I'm buying is a basic A series Volvo block. Don't know yet
if B27 or B28. Very simple single venturi, single plane manifold. Low
profile, which may be handy to clear a DeLo engine cover. I'm not
buying for performance. I'm buying because:
1) Engine is brand new, with all accessories except a gasoline carb
and A/C compressor, at a price that is WAY to good to pass up
2) Everything normally covered up or congested by a K-Jetronic
manifold is SO accessible

Why did you give up on the B280? I really desire one of those,
especially for the even fire sequence. Studied one at length in the
junkyard. If you decided against EFI, couldn't an elbow be rigged up
at the back of the manifold for a carb or a throttle body? Also seem
to remember air passed to a central point in the middle of the
manifold before splitting to the cylinders -- might be able to simply
drill a venturi and grind off a flat mounting platform there. I know
where you can find a complete engine for $150 to experiment with (1990
Volvo Bertone).

Someone on the list is running a B280 with generic EFI. 

A series manifold is MUCH lower profile than B280. Ports are surely
smaller too.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> wrote:
>
> I've thought about this too in the past, but I don't know how cost 
> prohibitive it would be to obtain the parts. Earlier versions of the 
> PRV used in the Alpines had two setups that I've seen: Either triple-
> deuce Webers (wouldn't that be interesting to have a tri-power 
> DeLorean!), or on some of their rally cars, I've seen six, single 
> barrel carbs installed (don't know if these were Webers, or Solex).
> 
> I thought about carburetion after my disappointing letdown with the 
> Eagle Premier motor. 



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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:14:18 -0600
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Cutting keys at the show?

I do code cut keys for the ignitions. But, alas, I was not planning for the show this year and won't make it. Sigh. Really starting to regret that decision already.

I charge a little more than Paine's locksmith because sometimes it takes a couple of tries to get it right (and this by postal, not walking out to the car); and sometimes, the codes in the door liner are just wrong.

I charge $25 to do a code-cut key (both sides) that can be used to drive or get copies made. I use plain old ilco blanks which aren't great, and frankly, are inferior metal to the replica blanks that DMCH sells. I highly recommend their blanks. I drove an ilco key for over a year, but eventually broke it off in the ignition. That's not a fun chore.

DMCH will cut their keys for you too, but I don't know if they will guarantee or keep cutting blanks if they don't work like I will. :-)
Once we figure out that I can cut a good blank for someone, then I will order and cut a DMCH blank to code. But that costs an extra $25, because I don't get a discount AND have to pay sales tax on the blank. And here you thought I was being a shill.

Dom? I think I gave you a misquote last week. 

Anyone, just email me off list if you are interested. 

-Kevin


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Paine [mailto:mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:53 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Cutting keys at the show?


A local locksmith here will do it for $20 and I will pass that price on 
to you - + shipping. I just need the code and I will ask them for 
confirmation that it can be done before I take payment.

You would get a 1 sided blank (code cut master) which would be used to 
tracecut the 2 sides of the complete key.

You would use the code cut 1 sided key to make all future keys and thus 
all be 1st gen keys.

regards,

Michael
vin 6067


 




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:30:08 -0600
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Ignition key difficulty, rusty exhaust manifolds, trailing arm bolts, etc etc

If those are your original keys-- stop using them! Especially in the
ignition.
More than likely those keys are worn, and by using a worn key, you are
slowly forcing the little components inside the locks to wear themselves
out. Eventually, you will be able to start the car with a screwdriver.
Get copies made, but not at a hardware store. Go to a locksmith and have
some made; if he's good, he can compensate for the wear. Best, get them cut
by code.
I can do ignition keys by code-- but the problem I've found so far is that
the 2-key cars don't have the ignition code written down and I have no
cross-reference of door-key code (which is usually written down) to ignition
code. Why doesn't every 2-key car owner send me your door-key code and one
of your ignition keys? I'll see if there is a way to make a cross-reference.
:-)
James- have you guys stumbled on anything like in the factory papers?

To find your code, pull down the driver's door headliner; the ignition codes
are 7,001X through 8,999X. Door codes are WR5xxx.

-Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: dmc001629 [mailto:dmc001629_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:34 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Ignition key difficulty, rusty exhaust manifolds,
trailing arm bolts, etc etc


Hey Matt:

I have car #1629, and started driving it as a daily driver in August of
2003.  Just for the record, my car came with (2) keys.  The ignition
key is a long key with a square, black plastic end.  I can use this key for








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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:37:36 -0600
From: "K. Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Ignition key difficulty

Lots of key discussions today.

Matt,
I missed the earlier message.
1604 definitely was a 2-key car at one time. It could have been altered to a
one key, it may be jacked up (parts ripped up or even out of the guts). Does
the key open the compartment behind the driver's seat?
Is it a non-stock key? if it is a duplicated key, what is the make and model
of the blank? That will help me determine if it is a door key or an ignition
key that you are using.


-----Original Message-----
From: Henry [mailto:henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:26 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Ignition key difficulty



Hi Matt,

  Just for the record, I have #1619 and a two key system - one "short" key
for the doors, and a different (longer) key for the ignition and storage
compartment.  I'd guess that somewhere along the line, your car was
converted to a one-key system.

-Hank






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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:35:54 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Conversions -- Carbureted PRV (Robert)

For those of you contemplating using the earlier incarnations of the
PRV engine, be aware of the potential problems they have with the
camshafts. All of the versions prior to the B28-F eventually have
problems with camshaft wear. Perhaps using a synthetic oil will help.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Ah yes, the Renault 6 pack. Imminently silly on a 171 inch engine.
> I've uploaded a couple of pics to #5939's photo album if anyone wants
> to see what they looked like.
> 
> Even the pedestrian R30 (early versions) used a funny dual carb setup
> (a single barrel and a 2 barrel in series).
> 
> The engine I'm buying is a basic A series Volvo block. Don't know yet
> if B27 or B28. Very simple single venturi, single plane manifold. Low





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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 03:10:08 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: More speedometer calibration nonsense & TAB status

I just thought I would mention one VERY IMPORTANT  point in replacing
the trailing arm bolts. YOU MUST TORQUE THE BOLTS WITH THE FULL WEIGHT
OF THE CAR ON THE SUSPENSION. Failure to do this will preload the
bushings resulting in early failure of the bushing. Refer to K:05:01
for proper procedure. BTW if you use a torch to remove a stubborn/bent
bolt you also risk damaging the bushing.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I finally purchased a replacement angle-drive and now have a working 
> speedometer.
> 
> Either it's out of calibration or I have really been speeding.
> 
> Like many others, I've been driving with the RPM/MPH conversion chart 





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