From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1923
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:23 PM

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: VIN 5326 started
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Re: Replacing exhaust manifold gasket
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. vin #717
From: "marc" <dafje33_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. steering rack questions
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

5. thickness of stainless skin
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>

6. Re: Cleaning Stainless
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. RE: Re: VIN 5326 started
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

8. Re: Cleaning Stainless
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: steering rack questions
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: Cleaning Stainless
From: KiwiDean_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: "Adjusting" a PRV
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

12. Re: Upcoming Car Show (St. Louis)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

13. Re: Brass Manifold Screws
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

14. Re: Re: Replacing exhaust manifold gasket-heat
From: My House <BePositive2000_at_dml_Yahoo.com>

15. Re: thickness of stainless skin
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. Looking for ex-Delorean employees
From: "Jelly Belly" <oneyogi2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:17:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: VIN 5326 started

You don't get the PRV running by "adjusting" things. If it is not
running right then it usually means you have to replace or clean
parts. "Ajusting" the O2 sensor (I assume you messed with the mixture
screw) only caused you to lose that adjustment. If it won't start than
you don't begin by messing with adjustments. Start with finding and
fixing vacuum leaks. Next have the fuel injectors cleaned and do a
tune-up replacing the spark plugs, ignition wires, cap, rotor, and air
filter. NOW you adjust the mixture screw on an engine analyzer. In
fact that is the only thing to adjust unless you also messed with the
3 brass screws and the tiny screws on the micro switchs by the
throttle spool. Timing generally is "right on" or close enough not to
need adjustment. You do have to make sure the mechanical advance and
the vacuum advance are working though. If it is smoking a lot pressure
test the cooling system to find any leaks and do a compression test on
the cylinders to see if it has been overheated.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "painintheass7565" <advantics_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Howdy all.Yup, if you can believe it, VIN 5326 will start but run 
> ruff after adjusting the O2. You have to give it gas to start it and 
> keep it running, and she smokes a lot.I remember someone saying that 
> I would have to adjust the frequency valve once I got it started, but 
> I don't know how to do that. I'm open to all suggestions. I just want 
> to thank everyone again for all your help.
> 
> John 5326 & 1383




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:29:35 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Replacing exhaust manifold gasket

Doing work on the exhaust system is among the hardest systems on any
car. After any length of time the hardware (the nuts and bolts) get so
rusted and corroded from the extreme heat and cool cycles that they
become near impossible to get loose without rounding the nuts,
stripping threads, and breaking bolts and studs. In my experience
using any type of penetrating oil isn't what gets things loose (on
exhaust systems). Look at how the professional shops (that do this
work for a living so they want to do it fast and not break every
fastener) get this stuff apart. They all use an oxyacetalyne torch to
heat the fasteners up to cherry red and unscrew it while it is still
hot! It works. The only drawbacks are the safety issue, preventing
heat damage to surrounding parts, and the possablity of stripping
threads (which would have stripped or broken anyway). Using
penetrating oil only makes it smelly and messy when you have to use
the heat anyway. Of course if you don't have a torch or know how to
use it you are left to try other methods. A propane torch can't get
things hot enough and it's heat isn't as concentrated so you have a
higher risk of collateral damage to wiring, hoses, etc.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Hi Pat
> 
> It's good to see my article is useful! The link only works with a 
> capital "T" BTW
> 





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:20:41 -0000
From: "marc" <dafje33_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: vin #717

Hi all,

I was looking at the photos and i saw the photos of vin #717 how is 
the car now?
Is the car cleaned and does it drive again?

Greetz 
marc





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:40:04 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: steering rack questions

List,

In a couple weeks I will be replacing my steering rack (with Grady's), tie 
rod ends, and intermediate shaft with U-joints (Darryl Tinnerstet's). 

i have two questions, to those of you whom have already done this:

1.  Is it advisable to replace the two mounts for the rack as well?  Rob told 
me that one of them is unavailable, however DMC Houston's website says both 
are in stock (the picture of one of them looks like a remanufactured part).  
Are the mounts almost always reusable, or should they be replaced too?  I am the 
kind of guy who wants to take no chances.

2.  when replacing the intermediate shaft too, what is the best way to make 
sure that my steering wheel to rack alignment stays the same?  Anyone have any 
good ways to make sure that my wheel won't be crooked when everything is back 
together?

somewhat related to that one, I also want to know how far the column should 
be inserted into the upper U-joint, and how far the lower joint should be on 
the rack itself.  Seems to me that if it isn't perfect, binding could occur if 
the total system was too long, while turning the wheel 360 degrees.  can it be 
too long or too short?  any experienced advice here is welcome.

Thanks!
Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:42:44 -0600
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>
Subject: thickness of stainless skin

/disengage lurk mode/

Hi gang,

I'm curious if anybody out there with a caliper and one of their panels 
off could tell me the thickness of the stainless steel.

Thanks!

Farrar Hudkins
New Orleans, LA

/engage lurk mode/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:51:12 +0000
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Stainless

An interesting tid-bit I ran across- From the 2004 Farmer's Almanac, P. 59:  
  Bar Keeper's Friend (since 1882) shines copper, brass, STAINLESS STEEL, 
tile, porcelain, fiberglass, & chrome.   I'll drink to that!    Who would've 
known?        Drive Stainless   Robert  VIN 6924

_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and 
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:52:11 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: VIN 5326 started

John,
Adjusting and compensating for wear is why they put screws one the area's
that need to be adjusted. If you want to pull the fuel system out and take
the intake off to get to the vacuum hoses while following someone's else
advice then please do so. But if you feel that is a little to much. Then
screws are made to be adjusted. You can also try it and if it doesn't work
then put it back with out having to a complete tune up. Trying to find
vacuum leaks is easy to say but not always easy to do. Even a tune up on our
cars is somewhat difficult. There is a screw for the 02 sensor adjustment
( fuel enrichment or lean ), idle speed, idle speed motor turn on. If you
have or even know someone that has an Ultrasonic cleaner that can clean and
test injectors then that is a good option. If you don't know someone then
you can pull them off and send them to me and I will clean them. 2 day's in
house and 2 day's ea coming and going, so you will be down for about 8 to 10
day's if that is an option.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: David Teitelbaum [mailto:jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: VIN 5326 started


You don't get the PRV running by "adjusting" things. If it is not
running right then it usually means you have to replace or clean
parts. "Ajusting" the O2 sensor (I assume you messed with the mixture
screw) only caused you to lose that adjustment. If it won't start than
you don't begin by messing with adjustments. Start with finding and
fixing vacuum leaks. Next have the fuel injectors cleaned and do a
tune-up replacing the spark plugs, ignition wires, cap, rotor, and air
filter. NOW you adjust the mixture screw on an engine analyzer. In
fact that is the only thing to adjust unless you also messed with the
3 brass screws and the tiny screws on the micro switchs by the
throttle spool. Timing generally is "right on" or close enough not to
need adjustment. You do have to make sure the mechanical advance and
the vacuum advance are working though. If it is smoking a lot pressure
test the cooling system to find any leaks and do a compression test on
the cylinders to see if it has been overheated.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "painintheass7565" <advantics_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Howdy all.Yup, if you can believe it, VIN 5326 will start but run
> ruff after adjusting the O2. You have to give it gas to start it and
> keep it running, and she smokes a lot.I remember someone saying that
> I would have to adjust the frequency valve once I got it started, but
> I don't know how to do that. I'm open to all suggestions. I just want
> to thank everyone again for all your help.
>
> John 5326 & 1383




To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:11:29 -0500
From: PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Stainless

At the hardware store the other day I found a chemical in an aerosol can called "Stainless Steel Magic".  It says it is for chrome and stainless steel appliances in the ktichen.  It also said it prevents water spots and finger prints.  I was sceptical at first, but I paid around $3 or $4 and bought it.  I sprayed it onto my clean D, and then wiped it off with a clean towel.  It turned a little white at first, but with constant rubbing the haziness dissapeared and left my steel spotless with a nice sheen.  It looks great, and gave me far better results than anything else I have used, including Windex.  It also gives the steel a very nice scent.  :)  

Patrick 
1880



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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:59:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: steering rack questions

Rob is correct.  I just bought my new rack and pinion, and Houston's site is incorrect; they do not have both mounts.  They have the square one but not the round one.  That's why I always call DMCH rather than order online; I don't like unexpected surprises.  I have not replaced my rack just yet, so that's all I can offer for now.  Heresay says Rob's rack is much more soundly built; others say Houston's are better built.  Just preference I guess.

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:of you whom have already done this:

1. Is it advisable to replace the two mounts for the rack as well? Rob told 
me that one of them is unavailable, however DMC Houston's website says both 
are in stock (the picture of one of them looks like a remanufactured part). 
Are the mounts almost always reusable, or should they be replaced too? 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:07:57 -0500
From: KiwiDean_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Stainless

I'll stick to my "sheila shine".

Dean



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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:40:52 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: "Adjusting" a PRV

I beg to differ: in it's original form a PRV is completely adjustable
(including the rocker arms). Later ECU driven systems grafted onto the
original design are indeed non-adjustable, but as those systems become
twitchy or fail altogether, you actually have two choices:
1) Disable systems and adjust manually
2) Return systems to original operation

My Renault Z7V (B27E) was *NEVER* intended for anything automatic
except the CPR, and even then its attendant fuel dampener (located
between the CPR and the fuel distributor) has an adjustment screw:
- Idle speed is adjusted manually 
- Fuel mixture is adjusted manually
- Ignition time is adjusted manually
Oh, original design auxiliary air valve closes automatically, but I'm
burning a manually operated solenoid version from whatever engine is
under the hood of a BMW 530.

Please note that these European spec engines -- every bit as much PRV
as their North American cousins -- don't even have places to attach
the sensors, microswitches, vacuum lines, etc that often cause so much
trouble for aging DeLo's.

That said, I fully concur that a proper tune up with all new
disposable parts is the *FIRST* step. Every new-to-me car is burned
through the engine compartment like General Sherman. All coolant hoses
are replaced (don't forget the thermostat). Remaining vacuum lines (I
de-emission at the same time) are replaced with better quality fuel
line hose. Entire ignition, including the coil upgraded to high
voltage, is replaced (only distributor body and module left
unchanged). Filters, including the oft neglected air filter, are
replaced. You get the idea. It costs $100-$200 up front, but you'll
never get a car to run reliably on someone else's tune up.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> You don't get the PRV running by "adjusting" things. If it is not
> running right then it usually means you have to replace or clean
> parts. "Ajusting" the O2 sensor (I assume you messed with the mixture
> screw) only caused you to lose that adjustment. If it won't start than
> you don't begin by messing with adjustments. Start with finding and
> fixing vacuum leaks. Next have the fuel injectors cleaned and do a
> tune-up replacing the spark plugs, ignition wires, cap, rotor, and air
> filter. NOW you adjust the mixture screw on an engine analyzer. In
> fact that is the only thing to adjust unless you also messed with the
> 3 brass screws and the tiny screws on the micro switchs by the
> throttle spool. Timing generally is "right on" or close enough not to
> need adjustment. You do have to make sure the mechanical advance and
> the vacuum advance are working though. If it is smoking a lot pressure
> test the cooling system to find any leaks and do a compression test on
> the cylinders to see if it has been overheated.
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "painintheass7565" <advantics_at_dml_a...>
wrote:
> > Howdy all.Yup, if you can believe it, VIN 5326 will start but run 
> > ruff after adjusting the O2. You have to give it gas to start it and 
> > keep it running, and she smokes a lot.I remember someone saying that 
> > I would have to adjust the frequency valve once I got it started, but 
> > I don't know how to do that. I'm open to all suggestions. I just want 
> > to thank everyone again for all your help.
> > 
> > John 5326 & 1383




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:27:52 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming Car Show (St. Louis)

List,

I know this is a little late notice, but there will be several
Deloreans and the Monster Garage Avenger GT40 Rock Crawler at
the World of Wheels car show this weekend, Friday thru Sunday
at the America's Center in St. Louis, MO, March 19-21, 2004.

Ron Wester's Screaming Yellow D will be displayed next to the
GT40RC to make one heck of a REALLY YELLOW display and they
will be along-side a couple more excellent examples of the
Delorean marque.  The weather should be great, so stop by.

If you live in the area or are within a few hours drive, it
should be a great time had by all.

See you in St. Louis.

Later,
Rich W.




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:02:16 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Brass Manifold Screws

Actually the brass screws are the idle speed system used before CIS.
They are used by *ALL* K Jetronic equipped PRV's from the mid 1970's
until the early 1980's. In the DeLo ap these screws weren't put on,
but rather were left behind. 

Volvo did decide that they shouldn't be messed with after CIS, so it
replaced the balancing screws with a "shear head" style, and
instructed mechanics to tighten them until the heads broke off. I've
re-uploaded to #5939's photo album a page from Volvo factory
literature documenting such.

Note that the threaded portion of all three screws is identical. If an
owner wants to reactivate the manual idle speed circuit, shear head
balancing screws can be replaced with air inlet screws. Don't forget
to replace the O rings at the same time.

Note also that Renault never adopted CIS -- it never used shear head
style balancing screws. 

Interestingly, last weekend I bought an upper air assembly from a 1989
B28F that, although CIS equipped, did NOT have shear head balancing
screws. Either Volvo itself or a previous owner had adopted John
Hervey's philosophy by the end of the decade.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> John,
> Adjusting and compensating for wear is why they put screws one the
area's
> that need to be adjusted. If you want to pull the fuel system out
and take
> the intake off to get to the vacuum hoses while following someone's else
> advice then please do so. But if you feel that is a little to much. Then
> screws are made to be adjusted. You can also try it and if it
doesn't work
> then put it back with out having to a complete tune up. Trying to find
> vacuum leaks is easy to say but not always easy to do. Even a tune
up on our
> cars is somewhat difficult. There is a screw for the 02 sensor
adjustment
> ( fuel enrichment or lean ), idle speed, idle speed motor turn on.
If you
> have or even know someone that has an Ultrasonic cleaner that can
clean and
> test injectors then that is a good option. If you don't know someone
then
> you can pull them off and send them to me and I will clean them. 2
day's in
> house and 2 day's ea coming and going, so you will be down for about
8 to 10
> day's if that is an option.
> John Hervey
> www.specialTauto.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Teitelbaum [mailto:jtrealty_at_dml_w...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Re: VIN 5326 started
> 
> 
> You don't get the PRV running by "adjusting" things. If it is not
> running right then it usually means you have to replace or clean
> parts. "Ajusting" the O2 sensor (I assume you messed with the mixture
> screw) only caused you to lose that adjustment. If it won't start than
> you don't begin by messing with adjustments. Start with finding and
> fixing vacuum leaks. Next have the fuel injectors cleaned and do a
> tune-up replacing the spark plugs, ignition wires, cap, rotor, and air
> filter. NOW you adjust the mixture screw on an engine analyzer. In
> fact that is the only thing to adjust unless you also messed with the
> 3 brass screws and the tiny screws on the micro switchs by the
> throttle spool. Timing generally is "right on" or close enough not to
> need adjustment. You do have to make sure the mechanical advance and
> the vacuum advance are working though. If it is smoking a lot pressure
> test the cooling system to find any leaks and do a compression test on
> the cylinders to see if it has been overheated.
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "painintheass7565" <advantics_at_dml_a...>
wrote:
> > Howdy all.Yup, if you can believe it, VIN 5326 will start but run
> > ruff after adjusting the O2. You have to give it gas to start it and
> > keep it running, and she smokes a lot.I remember someone saying that
> > I would have to adjust the frequency valve once I got it started, but
> > I don't know how to do that. I'm open to all suggestions. I just want
> > to thank everyone again for all your help.
> >
> > John 5326 & 1383
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_d...
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:17:59 -0800 (PST)
From: My House <BePositive2000_at_dml_Yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Replacing exhaust manifold gasket-heat

After reading Dave T's comments, I thought I should add some
clarification.


When removing studs or nuts on the exhaust, I use mape gas in a propane
style torch with a small tip because it concentrates the heat to a
small area (better than my oxyaceletene torch), gets hotter than
propane (enough to make the nut or stud red hot), is less likely to
overheat the nut (with an inexperienced user)  and for someone that
does not want to shell a few hundred dollars for a oxyaceletene torch,
a mape torch is cheap but effective alternative (about $30).  One does
have to use a tip that will take the higher temps of the mape gas; a
standard propane torch may melt.

There is no question that penetrating oils have their limitations, the
greatest one being time.  Commercial shops usually don't have time to
wait for it to work.  And, exhaust manifold studs are an exceptional
challenge.    Using a Dremmel tool to cut off a nut that has been
sprayed for several days with penetrant, the penetration of the oil is
apparent.

By the way, the Dremmel is another useful tool for cutting off the nuts
and the rusted end of the studs.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:26:32 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: thickness of stainless skin

I just measured a S/S panel with a micrometer. It is .054 which is
right in the midrange of 16 gauge. A far cry from what they put on
cars now which is 20-22 gauge, not much more than a soda can! 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> /disengage lurk mode/
> 
> Hi gang,
> 
> I'm curious if anybody out there with a caliper and one of their panels 
> off could tell me the thickness of the stainless steel.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Farrar Hudkins
> New Orleans, LA
> 
> /engage lurk mode/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:32:01 -0000
From: "Jelly Belly" <oneyogi2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking for ex-Delorean employees

I used to work at Delorean motor co qac center in Santa Ana, 
California 82-83 and I was wondering if anybody out there worked 
there when I did. Joe Black nicknamed me Flash when I was doing 
final QAC before we loaded them on the trucks. I also worked 
interior doors so if any one has any questions about how they work 
send me a note




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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