From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1950
Date: Sunday, April 04, 2004 1:29 PM

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Re: sudden death (Bad Battery Ground)
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

2. Re: Hit a pavement depression
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

3. Vibrating/Rubbing From Steering Column
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>

4. RE: Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

5. Re: Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. RE: Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jack_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>

7. Flooded Car, need advice...
From: "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: Vibrating/Rubbing From Steering Column
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

9. Re: Flooded Car, need advice...
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. RE: Re: sudden death (Bad Battery Ground)
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: clicking/squeek (speedo diagnosis)
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

12. engine tune-up
From: "delorean6584" <carburateur100gaz_at_dml_msn.com>

13. Front Brake Rotors
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>

14. Injection Lines
From: "Jason Rowe" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:21:04 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: sudden death (Bad Battery Ground)

Andy,
The fuel pump is grounded thru the inertia switch. Technical manual page 54.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:Soma576_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:27 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: sudden death (Bad Battery Ground)


List,

in my investigation of this problem, i need to know where exactly the fuel
pump ground is located, so i can check and clean it.  where do i find it?

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:07:49 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Hit a pavement depression

Check the front end frame extension, be sure that it didn't get bent
at all. The one on my car was weak and when I had to apply the brakes
suddenly it crumpled quite a bit. It drove pulling but then stopped-
the damage went weeks going un-noticed. Dan Benedek #5003




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:47:28 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Vibrating/Rubbing From Steering Column

Last night while driving around a bit, I noticed a funny vibrating or 
rubbing sensation in the steering wheel.  The sound is kind of like 
when you rub a latex balloon with your thumb and I can feel it in the 
wheel.  It's only when I turn the wheel and it's rather subtle.

Bushings need to be greased?

Johnny
5518




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:17:34 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem

Joe,
Your the second person that had a bad experience with an optima battery. The
other person burned up an alternator regulator because the new Optima
battery was shorted.
This is why when I sell an alternator and I explain how to check the battery
and they say it's a new battery I cringe. It could still be shorted, over
voltage or just bad. I have stated this before on the list but it's worth
repeating.
If you want to do a quick test on the battery condition ( OCV )Open circuit
voltage test on a new battery or old one, it won't take long and nothing to
unhook.
Here is what too do.
Charge the battery over night on a slow charger( 6 or 10amp ). Then the next
morning, unhook the charger and read the voltage across the battery
terminals with a DMM. If it's above 12.66 volts then turn on the lights for
a couple of minuets to bleed off the surface volts. Then read the voltage
again, it should be 12.66 volts to be fully charged and the condition good.
If the battery has a problem then here is what lower voltages show what the
battery condition will be.
12.66,,100% Good and holding a charge.
12.58,,90%
12.51,,80%
12.45,,70%
12.35,,60%
12.28,,50%
12.20,,40%
and so on.

Remember, Alternators are not made to charge the battery but to maintain it.
If you try to charge with the alternator you may burn up the regulator. Any
time you have a low voltage condition you need to charge the battery and do
the above test. If it turns out that your battery is below 100%, then the
alternator is always trying to charge and it will never get caught up. This
also why people have low voltage problems with the cars in lights dimming
and poor performance. Again, this is what keeps alternators rebuilders and
builders in business. Get a new battery, they aren't that expensive and
should be replaced every 2 to 3 years depending on the condition.
Instead of trying to track down all the places the drain could be. Install a
battery cut off switch and forget it. If you still want to track it down,
then you would have to look at the design of the parts and even down to the
inside of some relay's that have a resistor inside them.
Hope this helps.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com






-----Original Message-----
From: Palatinus, Joe [mailto:jopalatinus_at_dml_davidson.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:23 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem


Last Thanksgiving I installed an El-Glo dash kit (from Ryan on the list) and
a new optima battery from Pep Boys
 in my daily driver.  I started driving the car and after leaving it for 3-4
days at a time the car battery would be dead, and i could only start it with
a jump. I ran the car for a while to charge the battery, but this problem
kept repeating. I was convinced that the problem was I had miswired the dash
kit somehow and it was somehow draining the battery.  After I would run it
for a while it would start right up, so I was under the impression that the
battery was still good.  This problem persisted for several months, and I
finally decided to take the battery in for a test.  I took the battery to
Pep boys and they tested it and within 2 minutes their analyzer said battery
bad.  I hadn't even had this battery for a full year!  Luckily Pep Boys
exchanged the 130$ battery for free and I have had no problems starting
since then.
I have noticed however that my voltage seems to drop to exceedingly low
levels randomly (lower than the first red mark).  (The battery light remains
off, and the car still seems to operate fine, but I worry that this is due
to the battery being fresh and new.  I have one of 105 amp delco
alternators, so I wouldn't immediately suspect the alternator.  If the
battery light remains off the alternator should still be ok right?
Thanks
Joe P.
VIN 17167 6808



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:29:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem

It doesn't matter what kind of a battery you have, they do not live
long in a constant state of discharge. If it goes dead you are not
going to fully recharge it by running the motor. Repeatadly part
charging and then killing the battery is VERY BAD for it's service
life as you have just found out. The best thing to do is to recharge
it slowly like John says and then test the battery, the alternator,
and find the reason it goes dead. You can use a voltmeter to test it
but the "best" way is to load test it. The master switch is also a
good idea especally if you don't use the car often (like once a week).
Dirty connections can keep a battery from being fully charged and will
make it seem like it is not fully charged when you try to start the
car. John is also correct in saying that using the alternator to
"bring the battery back from the dead" is much harder on the
alternator than to just bring it back up to a full state of charge
after starting the motor. The theory here is that the alternator is
just supposed to "top off" the battery after starting the car. The car
and all it's accessories is "supposed" to be fed from the alternator.
This is not always the case, particularly when the car is idling so
the battery helps some (but not if it is bad or has dirty connections).
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> Joe,
> Your the second person that had a bad experience with an optima
battery. The
> other person burned up an alternator regulator because the new Optima
> battery was shorted.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:08:51 -0500
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jack_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>
Subject: RE: Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem

I must agree with John.  I had an Optima battery a while back, and after a
year it was bad.  I returned it and was given a replacement for free, but
the very next spring it too was dead.  That's when I went away from Optima.

I purchased his 150 amp alternator and installed it with a brand new
--CHARGED battery.  It sat for weeks in the garage alongside my Jaguar.  I
decided to start tem up and get the fluids flowing, and sure enough the Jag
was dead but the "D" started right up on first crank!!!

Jack Stiefel
www.fmtimemachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hervey [mailto:john_at_dml_specialtauto.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 2:18 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem

Joe,
Your the second person that had a bad experience with an optima battery. The
other person burned up an alternator regulator because the new Optima
battery was shorted.
This is why when I sell an alternator and I explain how to check the battery
and they say it's a new battery I cringe. It could still be shorted, over
voltage or just bad. I have stated this before on the list but it's worth
repeating.
If you want to do a quick test on the battery condition ( OCV )Open circuit
voltage test on a new battery or old one, it won't take long and nothing to
unhook.
Here is what too do.
Charge the battery over night on a slow charger( 6 or 10amp ). Then the next
morning, unhook the charger and read the voltage across the battery
terminals with a DMM. If it's above 12.66 volts then turn on the lights for
a couple of minuets to bleed off the surface volts. Then read the voltage
again, it should be 12.66 volts to be fully charged and the condition good.
If the battery has a problem then here is what lower voltages show what the
battery condition will be.
12.66,,100% Good and holding a charge.
12.58,,90%
12.51,,80%
12.45,,70%
12.35,,60%
12.28,,50%
12.20,,40%
and so on.

Remember, Alternators are not made to charge the battery but to maintain it.
If you try to charge with the alternator you may burn up the regulator. Any
time you have a low voltage condition you need to charge the battery and do
the above test. If it turns out that your battery is below 100%, then the
alternator is always trying to charge and it will never get caught up. This
also why people have low voltage problems with the cars in lights dimming
and poor performance. Again, this is what keeps alternators rebuilders and
builders in business. Get a new battery, they aren't that expensive and
should be replaced every 2 to 3 years depending on the condition.
Instead of trying to track down all the places the drain could be. Install a
battery cut off switch and forget it. If you still want to track it down,
then you would have to look at the design of the parts and even down to the
inside of some relay's that have a resistor inside them.
Hope this helps.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com






-----Original Message-----
From: Palatinus, Joe [mailto:jopalatinus_at_dml_davidson.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:23 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Questionable Optima Battery and voltage problem


Last Thanksgiving I installed an El-Glo dash kit (from Ryan on the list) and
a new optima battery from Pep Boys
 in my daily driver.  I started driving the car and after leaving it for 3-4
days at a time the car battery would be dead, and i could only start it with
a jump. I ran the car for a while to charge the battery, but this problem
kept repeating. I was convinced that the problem was I had miswired the dash
kit somehow and it was somehow draining the battery.  After I would run it
for a while it would start right up, so I was under the impression that the
battery was still good.  This problem persisted for several months, and I
finally decided to take the battery in for a test.  I took the battery to
Pep boys and they tested it and within 2 minutes their analyzer said battery
bad.  I hadn't even had this battery for a full year!  Luckily Pep Boys
exchanged the 130$ battery for free and I have had no problems starting
since then.
I have noticed however that my voltage seems to drop to exceedingly low
levels randomly (lower than the first red mark).  (The battery light remains
off, and the car still seems to operate fine, but I worry that this is due
to the battery being fresh and new.  I have one of 105 amp delco
alternators, so I wouldn't immediately suspect the alternator.  If the
battery light remains off the alternator should still be ok right?
Thanks
Joe P.
VIN 17167 6808



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

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Yahoo! Groups Links



 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:28:46 -0000
From: "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Flooded Car, need advice...

Hey Guys,

I'm stupid I know, its just this antzy feeling that spring has and my 
being without the car of my dreams for literaly years.  So I am going 
to ask a redundant question because I already know the answer.  I 
have found a really good deal on a car that runs great and looks 
fairly well inside and out.  However the car has been flooded in the 
recent past.

Now I want people to say that its a bad move because of the frame 
rust that has developed and that this kind of water damage (to the 
frame) is much worse than the salt buildup over the years.  I just 
want a couple of your oppinions.  I wont say anything good or bad 
about this particular car except to say that the price is almost too 
good to pass up, the car runs well, and it has been flooded in the 
last 2 years.

Replies to the list are pertainant in my humble oppinion, but private 
emails will help keep the bandwidth down a bit.  Thanks...

Tom Porter
Maine, USA




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:33:03 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Vibrating/Rubbing From Steering Column

Lubricate the bushing on the steering with some silicone spray. You
might be better off replacing it but try spraying it first. You can
also lube the tie rod ends and check the tire pressure in the front
tires. If the pressure is too low it increases the effort to steer.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Last night while driving around a bit, I noticed a funny vibrating or 
> rubbing sensation in the steering wheel.  The sound is kind of like 
> when you rub a latex balloon with your thumb and I can feel it in the 
> wheel.  It's only when I turn the wheel and it's rather subtle.
> 
> Bushings need to be greased?
> 
> Johnny
> 5518




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:22:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Flooded Car, need advice...

Flooding is not always so bad. A lot has to do with what kind of
water, how long it was wet, how high it got, and what was done
afterwards. You want to make sure there is no mold under the carpets,
all the fluids where replaced, the whole car was lubricated, the
wiring was cleaned up, etc. If the water didn't get too high, was not
saltwater, was dried out quickly, then the damage was minimal. On the
other hand......... Look for debri like leaves, twigs, dirt,
watermarks and stains, etc to try to establish how high the water got.
The C/V joints should be disassembled and relubed too along with the
steering rack. Expect a lot of trouble down the road as the fan motors
die, the horns stop working, bad electrical connections, etc.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> 
> I'm stupid I know, its just this antzy feeling that spring has and my 
> being without the car of my dreams for literaly years.  So I am going 
> to ask a redundant question because I already know the answer.  I 
> have found a really good deal on a car that runs great and looks 
> fairly well inside and out.  However the car has been flooded in the 
> recent past.
> 
> Now I want people to say that its a bad move because of the frame 
> rust that has developed and that this kind of water damage (to the 
> frame) is much worse than the salt buildup over the years.  I just 
> want a couple of your oppinions.  I wont say anything good or bad 
> about this particular car except to say that the price is almost too 
> good to pass up, the car runs well, and it has been flooded in the 
> last 2 years.
> 
> Replies to the list are pertainant in my humble oppinion, but private 
> emails will help keep the bandwidth down a bit.  Thanks...
> 
> Tom Porter
> Maine, USA




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:32:04 -0400
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: RE: Re: sudden death (Bad Battery Ground)

<<<<Andy,
  The fuel pump is grounded thru the inertia switch. Technical
  manual page 54.
  John
>>>

yes - but WHERE is the ground wire from the inertia switch bolted to the frame? THAT is what needs to be inspected.

Andy



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:39:10 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: clicking/squeek (speedo diagnosis)

In a message dated 4/2/04 10:40:54 AM Central Daylight Time, 
edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:


> Is this typical of a broken cable, connector falling off the back of the
> speedo, lubrication problem, comming hurricane, or something else?
> 
> Would appreciate some thoughts before I get the tools out and prove how
> "knowledgable" I am (not) this weekend.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> 10541
> 

Unfortunately, by the situation you describe, It looks like your speedo drive 
just bought the farm.  luckily for you it is sunday morning and i've got 
nothing to do (except work on my OWN car) so here's the scoop:

To test:
1. lift driver's side front wheel off of ground.
2. disconnect the lower speedo cable from the lambda counter (yellow box in 
driver's side foot well with a big cable going in (lower one) and a big one 
coming out (upper).  
3.  Have a friend spin the driver's side wheel as if you were driving and 
observe the square-shaped wire inside the lower cable.  If it spins inside the 
cable, the speedo drive is probably still good.  
4. if it doesn't, remove the left front wheel.  there will be a cream-colored 
plastic cap in the middle of the wheel.  pry it off with a screwdriver and 
check for damage on the other side of it.  there should be a square-shaped 
molding in the back side.  if the molding is rounded out or damaged, you need a new 
cap at the very least.
5.  now check the metal wire pointing at you thru the hole where the cable 
came off of.  is it all shredded up, or can you pull the wire out easily (don't 
pull if it doens't come out with little effort)?  If so, you need a new angle 
drive.
6.  if it isn't shredded or disconnected, turn the steering wheel all the way 
to the passenger side.  remove the lower cable from the back side of the 
angle drive by unscrewing it.   if you see that the cable is shredded you need a 
new angle drive.
7.  if the cable isn't shredded on either side or the wire shows no damage, 
and the dust cap is good, then put the cap back on the wheel, and remember to 
carefully line it up so the square ends fit together.  
8.  spin the wheel with one hand while observing the wire in the angle drive 
that goes to the lower speedo cable (with cable still disconnected).  
9.  if the wire spins smoothly, your angle drive and cap are almost certainly 
ok.  
10.  since the lower cable didn't spin freely where you disconnected it to 
the lambda counter, this is now your problem.  the cable can be pulled out of 
the car by pulling thru the firewall.  you can pull the wire out of the cable 
and attempt to clean it and flush out the cable with 90W gear oil.  put the wire 
back in the cable and push it in, pull it out, push it in, etc until it is 
well lubricated with oil.  by this point you should be able to spin the wire 
easily on one end and see it spin on the other side.  clean up your mess and 
screw it back onto the angle drive.  spin the wheel and see if the cable freely 
spins with it.  if not, you have a bad connection between the angle drive and 
the lower cable.  it would be wise to replace the whole system (lower cable with 
the new updated shorter one, a new hardcore series angle drive from PJ Grady, 
and a new dustcap).
11.  IF HOWEVER, the lower cable spun freely during your first test when 
removing it from the lambda counter, try removing the upper cable from the counter 
and seeing if the wire spins in the top of the counter.  if it spins there, 
but not at the lower cable, you need a new lambda counter (plastic gears = 
cheap anyway).
12.  if the counter spins, you need to remove your instrument cluster (6 tiny 
nuts hold it down - they have big washers on them except the two smaller ones 
on either side of the steering column) and remove the upper cable from the 
back of the speedometer.  spin the wheel - if it doesn't spin, the upper cable 
is bad.  if it does, the speedometer gauge itself is bad.

here is the order of failure likelihood:
mostly likely: 
1. angle drive failure due to lack of lubrication or ice in the housing - 
replace the dust cap at the same time
2. cracked or damaged dust cap from an angle drive on the verge of self 
destruction
3. too long of a lower speedo cable or seized up by dirt or debris (you 
should replace the lower cable with the new style either way).
4. lambda counter internal failure (usually due to another speedo problem)
5. upper cable damage (not likely)
6. speedometer in cluster damage (not likely)

while you are replacing parts, ask Rob Grady about the lower speedo cable 
guide bracket which goes on the brake caliper.  it helps keep the lower cable 
straight during hard cornering.  you must disconnect your driver's side front 
brack to install, however.  most angle drive problems can be identified by a 
shredded cable behind the cap, with a rounded out cap (angle drive stopped turning 
while wheel kept spinning)

by following these steps, you should be able to diagnose your problem and get 
only the parts you really need.

good luck!
Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:20:44 -0000
From: "delorean6584" <carburateur100gaz_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: engine tune-up

just take out the delorean for this summer so now its my daily 
driver, but the engine need a little tune-up because since i 
replaced some parts and clean up the engine bay now the engine 
misfire during driving, just like it was run out of fuel for a 
second it does it warm or cold and the acceleration is sluggish all 
time...so what are the parts i replaced this winter : distributor 
rotor/cap, spark plugs, wires, fuel accumulator, all hose clamps, 
belts, fuel filter, oil filter and oil

heres the test i have made : i checked the timing (13 degree without 
vacuum), i also adjusted the screw for throttle plates (now the idle 
is sitting at 750rpm and the microswitch is pressed when idling), i 
also play with the co level screw(allen bolt) i placed it to have 
the best engine sound/noise smells with 3-4 road tests, i also 
checked all vacuum hoses and spray wd40 where all hoses plugs in 
particular the big one under the fuel/air control unit, 

symptoms i see : when i start the car : the engine rpm is about 
2000rpm for 10sec and after it drop to 750 (a little higher when 
cold)

my idea is : i think the engine run too rich

if someone have a hints about it please help me because a delorean 
is better when the engine runs fine

thanks
yan




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:36:33 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>
Subject: Front Brake Rotors

Recently, someone posted information about Capri Rotors being
interchangeable with The DMC front rotors.
 
I have not been able to locate that post.
 
Would someone please repost that information.
 
Thanks
 
Scott


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:24:24 -0800
From: "Jason Rowe" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>
Subject: Injection Lines

     Hello List,
                  This may be a dumb question but why can't we just use regular
fuel injection hose instead of that thin hard line inside of the big bulky line?
Why not just use 1/4in or whatever it is with regular clamps? Is it like that
just for extra protection from the engine heat and elements or what? If I'm not
mistaken our systems are running about 75psi and some of the injection hose
I've seen are rated up to 125psi. I am really bosch/fuel injection in general 
illiterate so if this is in fact a dumb question please excuse my ignorance. 

            Also, what ever happened to the DeLorean on ebay a few weeks 
back that had less miles on the car than the odometer. I think they claimed
it was a 450 mile car or something. Just curious if anyone knew what 
happened with it. Feel free to email me off list if you like. Thanks in advance
for any input...................Jason #5903

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
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