From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1955
Date: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 6:56 PM

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Coolant Leak Problem HELP ME!
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

From: "Elvis Nocita" <>

3. RE: Re: Compatible Key blank
From: Dick Ryan <>

4. Re: Digest Number 1953, Coolant leak

5. Re: vin scedt26t8bd001601
From: Michael Paine <>

6. Re: Concours Judging For Options & Accessories
From: "Mr. Copies" <>

7. RE: Re: Lowering Springs
From: "Video Bob" <>

8. Re: Oakland DeLorean shop
From: "Roland Smith" <>

9. Re: Lowering Springs
From: Louie G <>

10. DeLorean Car Show Magazine

11. RE: Additional Thoughts Re: Water Pump Replacement
From: "PJ Grady" <>

12. Re: Ribbed radiator piping to water pump?
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

13. RE: Concours Judging For Options & Accessories
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>

14. Thoughts Re: PRV Intake Manifolds
From: "content22207" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:03:17 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Coolant Leak Problem HELP ME!

I had a simular situation, when one of my bypass hoses burst. Mine 
was the one on the passenger side, and was replaced w/o removing a 
thing. But was still far from being an easy task. In any case, you'll 
really want to put a cooling system pressure tester on the system 
(easily borrowed from most auto parts stores). When you crank up the 
pressue, you can then see/hear where the leak is comming from. 
Although, in this case, it sounds to me like a disconnected hose, 
rather than a ruptured one. Assuming in your description that you now 
experience the coolant pouring out with the engine off, and the 
system under no pressure.

If nothing else, you've learned a valuable lesson. If your engine 
begins to overheat, PULL OVER IMMEDIATELY!!! Unless you're in 
traffic, and have to drive agressivly to reach safety, pull over, and 
STOP! Side of the road, random parking lot, they'll all work just 
fine in letting your car park there while you let it cool down, or 
walk to the auto parts store for coolant, and fan belt, etc... 
Walking isn't any big deal, and just takes a little more time. If you 
MUST drive to the store, because your in the middle of "BFE", or 
elsewhere, then park the car, let it cool for a while, and then drive 
until it heats back up, pull over, and repeat the cooling process. 

Best case senario: You overheat, pull over, repair the issue (such as 
a belt, or low coolant), and continue down the road. Next worst case, 
you don't pull over in time, and puke out your coolant, and possibly 
damage a cooling hose. Worst Case: You continue down the road, trying 
to make it to a safe place, rather than stopping, and warp your Head 

I don't know what exactly has caused your problem here, but from the 
sound of it, something in your cooling system failed, and because the 
car was allowed to overheat, you then had a hose failure because the 
car overheated. The car didn't overheat because you had a hose fail. 
Otherwise, you would have seen steam first, and then the car would 
have overheated.

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, "thinkstainless" <stldrgn_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Hey guys, having overheating problems with my D. It was overheating 
> one day while I was driving and I was trying to make it to a 
> station when all this smoke plumed out of my engine compartment, 
> after pulling over, you could smell coolant everywhere and it was 
> over the compartment.


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:13:20 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>

Of course I meant it's a bad idea to run the car without battery !

> Very good idea to run the car without alternator.
> That's the worst case test that is done to any electronic device in a car.
> It's called Load dump !
> An alternator without battery will produce about 100V or more for a few
> seconds.
> Congratulations, you probably fried most of your electronic devices on
> your car !
> Why didn't you just measure the standby current drawn from your battery ?
> A cheap 10$ DMM is all you need.
> Elvis & 6548


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: RE: Re: Compatible Key blank

I, too, have had a key break off in the ignition.  Not
once, but twice.  Both keys were "aftermarket".  

In each case they broke at the narrowest spot; ie,
where there is a significant cut on both sides of the
key.  So I not only now have a sturdier blank, but
also had the lock tumblers reset so as to avoid such
an obvious weak spot. 

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:30:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1953, Coolant leak

In a message dated 4/6/2004 8:15:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
I was able to remove the rear facia, and now 
have a good angle at the pump, can I simply remove the pump without 
unbolting the intake? Or am I in for a massive project?                       
               Mr. T.
You are in for an interesting learning experience! 
Yes, it is a massive project.
No, you can not remove the pump and replace the hose without removing the 
intake manifold. Some of the more experienced people on the list can do it, but I 
would not recommend it for a first timer! Once you get in there you will 
I had the same problem last year and replaced the water pump, 2 water hoses, 
3 vacuum hoses and one of the sensors -- all under the intake. Plus a bunch of 
other parts. 

My recommendation: 
1. Make sure that you have the parts manual so you can identify the many 
parts you will be 
2. There are two excellent "how to" articles in the archives on the subject. 
Print them out, you will be needing them! DO NOT NEGLECT THIS STEP!
3. Order a new water pump WITH the pulley.
4. Order the repair kit with the required hoses from PJ Grady. (Look up the 
reason on their web site.) 
5. Order the vacuum hoses from John Hervey (PJ's recommendation!)
6. While you are in the ordering process, get a couple of 7mm bolts for 
"just-in case". (I broke one and they are impossible to find anywhere!)
7. Get a box of small white marking tabs (with a string loop attached) from 
Office Max and mark every single piece you remove! On some of the parts (hoses 
for example), mark each end! 
8. While you are in there and unless they were changed less than 5 years ago, 
replace the spark plug wires also. Same for the rest of the coolant hoses all 
along the system!
9. If you have a digital camera, take lots of pictures as you go along!

- In all probability you will end up calling your favorite DMC vendor at 
least once. 
- Don't expect to get it done in a day or two! 
- If you don't like the idea to do it yourself, a qualified Volvo dealer will 
charge about $1500 for the job! 
- Have fun!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:09:53 -0400
From: Michael Paine <>
Subject: Re: vin scedt26t8bd001601

Welcome to the group!!

First, get yourself a set of the 3 Delorean books - Workshop Manual, Parts
Manual, Service bulletins.

ALso the major vendors off the top of my head (forgive me if I forget you):

PJ Grady (NY)
SpecialTAuto (TX)
Delorean Parts North-West(WA)
Delorean Automotive (AZ)
Delorean 1 (CA)

Also of note: 

DMC News

Regarding your fuel pump: I do not know a cross refrence but any of the Delorean
vendors should have it.

Regarding your heads: The workshop manual mentions what to do about your head
torquing - here is a synopsis (by Jordan Rubin) taken from the following URL:

Section 7 - Re-Start and Re-tightening procedure

After ensuring that everything is re-installed and hooked up properly, fill the
engine with critical fluids (coolant, oil, fuel). I recommend having a friend
bypass the RPM relay for just a couple of seconds to prime the fuel system and
check for leaks at your fuel distributor while you watch in the engine
compartment. The bypass procedure is in the "Fuel, Emissions & Exhaust" section
of the manual. As much as you'd like to be the one to turn the key at such a
proud moment, it's best to have a friend do it while you adjust the distributor
if necessary to get the engine running. Once started, IMMEDIATELY verify oil
pressure is within normal operating range, then begin an aggressive leak check.
Run the engine for 30 minutes to heat everything up, Ensure the engine fans kick
on. Ensure engine temperature does NOT exceed 210 degrees for more than 5
minutes. If the fans don't engage, but they did work before you dismantled the
engine, then the cooling system needs to be bled. Open the bleed screw on the
thermostat cap on the waterpump. If necessary, there is also a bleed point on
the high point of the radiator on the front, passenger side. Shut down the engine.

Using a socket swivel, loosen the four intake bolts. Remove the valve covers
(including the A/C compressor and other interference) Retighten the head bolts
as called out in the manual, condensed here:

As you did when installing the heads, loosen each bolt to 15 ft/lbs, then
retorqe to 115 degrees if you have the disk, or whatever ft/lbs you decided you
could live with (65, 80, 90). Do this one at a time as recommended before, do
not loosen them all at once and then tighten them down.

The final seating of the head gaskets is important to prevent leaks. You may be
tempted to skip it to avoid tearing up the engine again. I recommend completing
the procedure to the bloody, bitter end. I'm certain there's a reason for the
retightening procedure. 


Michael Paine
vin 6067

Quoting grooveshack26 <>:

> hi i just purchased an 1981 DeLorean, there is no fuel pump just the 
> hole where it goes in tank and the rubber boot that holds it, is this 
> the same set up a volvo uses or is it special too this make, and 
> where is a good place too purchase these parts, also the shop that i 
> purchased this vehicle from replaced heads they had there first 
> tourque set, now when i get it running and warm up they will need too 
> have the second tourque do you know what that setting tightness 
> should be, thanks for your help . rod


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:28:11 -0400
From: "Mr. Copies" <>
Subject: Re: Concours Judging For Options & Accessories

Hi Gang,

The problem with the concours rules (as I understand them) is the bonus
"dealer option" points are weighted equal to everything else.

Under the rules as they stand you could.....take a hammer to every stainless
panel on your car - lose the maximum 6 allotted points for stainless finish
and make them up completely with dealer options, theoretically winning a
concours with a car in that condition.

There needs to be a revision made.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick Ryan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Concours Judging For Options & Accessories

> Though I am not a contender for any concours judging,
> I firmly believe that "dealer options" are just that -
> options!  As such, they are nice, but not to be
> considered in concours judging.  They should neither
> add nor detract from the scoring.
> I'm not even in favor of using them to break a tie.
> If there is a legitimate tie, so be it!!
> Dick Ryan
> VIN 16867
> __________________________________
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:53:30 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <>
Subject: RE: Re: Lowering Springs

My car was lowered by the previous owner, I think by DMCH.
It looks fantastic and drives perfect.
I have only scraped it once, and it was not the front spoiler but a part 
under the car....
when pulling out of a very steep driveway onto the road to quickly, it 
didn't do any damage though.

To me, the car looks just plain goofy without being lowered.
It sticks up in the front like it is in a solid state of thrust, or like a 
low rider when it is popped up.
The slight lowering makes a big difference in the way it looks, and is not 
as noticeable as when you see two cars side by side with the difference.
The gap between the fender and wheel is correct.

The "lowering" is nothing more than a restoration of the car's intended 
In case you are someone reading this and were not aware, the raising of the 
car in 1981
had to do with a new bumper height safety regulation that DMC was trying to 
meet after
production, and added the larger springs to compensate for the design.

I think the lowering is a good investment, and as far as scraping goes, 
don't hop any
curbs and you should be fine.
Hey, it's a sports car....they ALL scrape!
- Videobob

>From: "content22207" <>
>Subject: [DML] Re: Lowering Springs
>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:05:03 -0000
>That's the only front end adjustment you can make on a DeLorean...


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:56:09 -0700
From: "Roland Smith" <>
Subject: Re: Oakland DeLorean shop

Hello Ryan:

The automobile service I used with great results in the East Bay is The
Autohouse located at 565 20th Street, Oakland.  The owner is Tony Fung and
the phone number is 510-893-5123.

He likes my DeLorean and would like to solve problems on others.

Not only did he solve a fuel system problem, he solved a few minor
electrical problems.

Best regards,
Roland Smith
VIN 6667
Oakland, California
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan McCaffrey" <>
To: "Roland Smith" <>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Oakland DeLorean shop

> Hey Roland,
> Can you please e-mail me the name, address, phone number, and contact
> for the shop you've taken your car to in Oakland? It was something like
> 's Auto House, if I remember right.
> Thanks,
> Ryan McCaffrey
> #10014


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:24:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie G <>
Subject: Re: Lowering Springs

I just wanted to say that you don't "have" to install new adjustable lower control arms when you lower a DeLorean, but it's certainly not a bad idea. Remember folks you only get the adjustable lower control arm if you're lowering the rear of the car. Yes the adjustable control arms ensure the rear tires sit flat on the pavement, but as much as most DeLorean owners out there drive their cars, I'm not sure this modification is really all that necessary for all. There's just so much dogma in the DeLorean community I thought it would be a good idea to clear this up for newbies.

My car was lowered by DeLorean Motor Center too, and while I really like the look of it being lowered on all 4 wheels, that's about all I like about it. The ride is very darty and choppy, and it seems I bottom out constantly even with very careful driving. I have the adjustable control arms on the rear of my car because I drive the car every day. Bill Robertson cut his front springs down on his car with a dremel tool, and I agree with what he says. You really can't tell a difference positive or negative in regards to handling or ride. I think it's because he only chopped off about an inch from his springs. Anyone who has seen my car knows it's drastically lower.

Regarding Grady versus DMC-Houston's springs, it comes down to what you cosmetically prefer IMO. I've driven cars with both their systems, and they're both light years ahead of the stock car in both ride and handling. You'll be very pleased with whatever you decide to go with.

Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC

--- "thebrave65" <> wrote:
Along with the addtional things David mentioned, you will also have 
to get a set of adjustable lower control arms too.  They're designed 
to set your tires parallel, otherwise, you'll have a few more 
problems to contend with.  I know Matthew Olans had his car 
completely lowered and had to get those installed.


Buy and sell stocks in NFL teams! Get paid dividends every time your team wins! Free limited-time trial at


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:49:55 EDT
Subject: DeLorean Car Show Magazine

If you want a preview of  Volume 1 Issue 4 that is to be released later this 
week you can check it out on Ebay.  All four issues are posted there.  We are 
auctioning off the first magazine to come off the press.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:49:49 -0400
From: "PJ Grady" <>
Subject: RE: Additional Thoughts Re: Water Pump Replacement


We don't currently have stainless 7mm Hex bolts available and never claimed
to. We do however offer an intake manifold bolt kit (#1IMBKIT...$24.65) that
we use in the shop when pulling the manifold/water pump. If you apply a dab
of hi-temp anti-seize to the threads I think you'll find that, say ten years
down the road in my experience, that all the bolts will still loosen easily.
Stainless is not necessary nor financially viable in this application.

The exhaust manifold is a different animal and we found it very beneficial
to have these 7mm STUDS made from hardened stainless (#102167GS...$7.50
each). Again applying anti-seize to the head mounted portion of the threads
will IMO keep "galvanic corrosion" from causing any problems. It is neither
necessary nor desirable to anti-seize the nut side of the thread as it will
interfere with torqueing the nut and make proper retention difficult.

 Stainless on stainless can cause galling problems if the fastener is over
tightened which is why we still use steel nuts with these studs. Back in the
eighties I could get copper plated all metal 7mm locknuts which would be
ideal if I could convince the manufacturer in Germany to make some more. In
the meantime I believe our exhaust service kit (#112259GS...$149.95) creates
a new standard in DeLorean exhaust repair and serviceability. 

All of our products are "shop tested" BEFORE we offer them for sale which
cannot be said for some venders who have no repair center, and the inherent
expense, in which to test their products. This is why I believe Delorean
owners should patronize (at least some of the time) venders that have
invested in a shop to properly service their customers. If these venders are
to survive ten years from now some people will have to resist the tendency
to shop for the lowest price at all costs. OK, that said, I'll get down off
my soapbox!   

-----Original Message-----
From: content22207 [] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: [DML] Additional Thoughts Re: Water Pump Replacement

Add to Martin G's and David T's recommendations:
- Have extra copper banjo washers on hand (some always fall and get
lost when removing/reinstalling fuel system)
- Replace O rings for coolant distribution pipe
- Replace or eliminate steel pipe in the heater core return line
- Replace vacuum lines while so accessible

I'd also consider replacing 7mm bolts on the coolant distribution pipe
with stainless studs and nuts from Rob Grady. Bolts that hold the pump
are very common 8x1.25, if you want to replace them with studs as
well. Steel and aluminum weld themselves together in the presence of
moisture (leaking coolant). Stainless on stainless however remains
easily removeable. Doesn't matter if studs weld themselves to the
block -- all you care about is turning the nuts.

Bill Robertson


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:19:20 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Ribbed radiator piping to water pump?

You can get the hoses _at_dml_ any auto parts store. It's just a universal 
hose, that comes with a spring inside. However, the fittings on the 
waterpump are larger than those on the pipes. So you'd then need an 
adaptor. Hervey over _at_dml_ SpecialTAuto sells one. I made one myself from 
another length of small hose, but it still dribbles no matter how 
tight I've applied the hose clamps (will be changed out soon).

Your best best is to just stick with stock, and only use the 
universal hose in an emergency situation.

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, "jmlaux83" <jmlaux83_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I know this is not a stock item is it to another similar volvo 
> engine? I need to change these out on my car and I prefer the 
> look over the smooth. If I can get these at any auto parts store 
> should I ask for, or Where can I go to get these?
> Thanks
> Jason
> 2256


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:06:33 -0700
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>
Subject: RE: Concours Judging For Options & Accessories

   This issue is being dealt with. We're not totally sure on how we'll
handle the accessories but I can assure you the Concours will center on
and be totally about the car itself.

I've also been given lots of feedback about 'updates', but you have to
draw the line somewhere.  The idea behind Concours is to have a car that
would reflect the perfectly built car rolling out of the factory for
that day.

Knut Grimsrud is the leader on updates to the Judging Handbook. If you
have areas of concern, please email him directly
[knut.s.grimsrud((AT)))]. We are on a very short timeline to
get the updates completed so let him know soon.

For anyone out there with a car that they think could compete, I
encourage you to sign up. You'll learn a lot about your car, even if you
don't take one of the top prizes.

And... I'm looking for several assistants. This will speed the judging
and train new people to be future judges.

(Head Judge for Pigeon Forge)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mr. Copies [] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 5:28 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DML] Concours Judging For Options & Accessories
> Hi Gang,
> The problem with the concours rules (as I understand them) is 
> the bonus
> "dealer option" points are weighted equal to everything else.
> Under the rules as they stand you could.....take a hammer to 
> every stainless
> panel on your car - lose the maximum 6 allotted points for 
> stainless finish
> and make them up completely with dealer options, 
> theoretically winning a
> concours with a car in that condition.
> There needs to be a revision made.
> mike
> VIN#17089


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:28:19 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Thoughts Re: PRV Intake Manifolds

Re: Recent messages about removing the intake manifold, and its
attendent fuel mixture assembly, to access coolant lines, vacuum
lines, sensors, etc etc etc underneath:

At first glance burying all that stuff in the "valley of death"
appears to be a major design flaw from the French/Swedes. I think it's
important to remember that original design PRV intake manifolds were
easily removed. Everything underneath was merely 4 bolts away. I've
removed a carbureted manifold in slightly more than a minute (albeit
with no fuel or vacuum lines attached). Even early model fuel
injection manifolds were removed much more easily than our's. 

Doesn't help *OUR* situation I know, but original PRV designers
shouldn't be faulted for the manifold it was later addled with. They
really did design a surprisingly nice core block.

Note also that the B280/3.0 redesign returned to a single piece intake
manifold very reminiscent of 1970 models.

Bill Robertson



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