From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1964
Date: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 5:16 PM

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Fan trouble
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

2. Re: Steering column upper U-joint
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

3. Re: angle drive snapped (I think)
From: "thebrave65" <>

4. Re: news from 717 !
From: "thebrave65" <>

5. DMC Console Clock Wanted
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>

6. Re: direct wire Lockzilla?
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

7. Continued: Lowering Advice
From: "content22207" <>

8. Re: news from 717 !
From: DMCVIN6683 <>

9. Re: Steering column upper U-joint

10. Questions on Houstons engine
From: "spaceace3113" <>

11. Re: Re: Weird Idle
From: kevin creason <>

12. Electrical problem, please help...
From: "TalksToGod" <>

13. Vacuum cap?
From: "eremhcel" <>

14. Wiring legand? Anyone?
From: "TalksToGod" <>

15. Re: Inlet air manifold

16. Grey Paint for Front Bumber ??
From: "John" <>

17. Inch/mm conversion (Was Re: angle drive snapped (I think))

18. Ebay Item #2473329595
From: "Alex Wolf" <>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:35 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Fan trouble

The temp gauge isn't 100% accurate, but is there to give you a good 
idea of what is going on with your cooling system. So it may be 
possible that that gague isn't properly calibrated, and you're not 
letting the car warm up enough to catch. So this is one possibility. 
You may wish to let the car heat up to 220F, and shut the car off
the needle begins to go past the 220 mark. Right around there is when 
my fans typicly turn on.

->Side note: water cut with antifreeze raises the boiling point of 
water, and the coolant being isolated in a sealed system that 
restricts it's expansion, will increase it's boiling point temp even 
further. So 220F is a safe operating temp for a car. Take notice 
that to avoid this kind of customer concern, auto manufacturers no 
longer put numbers on their temp gagues, just designations 
between "Hot" and "Cold".

Looking at your VIN #, and somewhat from your description, it sounds 
as though you've got the later style pipe assembly, where the 
otterstat is insterted into a hole on the bottom of the pipe. So air 
bubbles collecting around the otterstat shouldn't be a problem here.

However, you did write that you have both bled the system manually, 
and that you now have a self bleeder installed. In either case, it 
still sounds to me as though you've still not bled the car entirely. 
Manually bleeding is a time consuming task. To do it properly, you've 
got to disconnect the hoses on the front, to bleed out the air in the 
front part of the system. Doing this entirely thru the bleeder screw 
on the back can take upwards of an hour. Plus, you're not just 
bleeding out air. As you bleed off air, you're also bleeding out 
coolant. And the problem with this is that when the level gets too 
low, cooling efficiency is dropped, and what little air is in the 
system will become scattered, and you'll end up with vaptor lock. 
When bleeding with this method, you can only take so much coolant out 
at a time, and then you must pause, and wait for the car to cool, and 
then refill the drained coolant back into the surge tank. Any time 
that you bleed off too much coolant and cause this senario, you've 
got to start over from the very begining!

Passive bleeding with the bleeder kit is much easier, but you really 
need to pressurize the system to evacuate everything. And you'd need 
to do this by driving the car. Heat the system up, drive it, and see 
how stable it becomes. Park, and let cool down, then crack open the 
surge tank to vent any excess air, and to top off the coolant, if 
nessisary. And while it may run warm at first, it should quickly run 
cooler as you heat & cool the system.

Don't bother draining your cooling system to start over 
from "scratch". It's not as though the water has "failed", and needs 
to be replaced. But, since you're already this involved in the 
cooling system, it really wouldn't hurt for you to perform a pressure 
test next time you've got it filled up.

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, Jim Hodgson <jhodgson11_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> Dave,
> The  guage will get as high as 220 if I let it. I would shut it 
down at that point for fear of overheating it.


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:28:28 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Steering column upper U-joint

Try and find an engineering firm who rebuilds drivershafts. Look on 
google for "universal joint repair"

Best Wishes


Phil Priestley wrote:

>After pulling out the steering rack thinking that was what was causing 
>the very sticky steering, I decided to pull out the lower column shaft 
>to clean and lube it. I discovered that the upper half of the the upper 
>U-joint was seized up.


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:53:22 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <>
Subject: Re: angle drive snapped (I think)

That's excatly what I had to do just this weekend.  Whack it with a 
hammer to get it off the nut.  The snap ring was totally corroded and 
the angle drive was seized to the nut.  One vise clamping and a few 
dozen good smashings later, it popped out.  Before I get flammed for 
my technique, I can assure everyone that it was the only way.

I used a 1.25" open-end wrench to get the nut off and a 32mm socket 
for the hub.  They are essensially the same size and I purchased both 
at Checker Auto.

BTW:  This was my first part replacement that I have ever done on my 
DeLorean since I've had it in January.  I did it solo and it was not 
that hard and DMCH was very helpful over the phone.  (So was a local 
member of our AZ club - THANK YOU MATT)!



Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:11:29 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <>
Subject: Re: news from 717 !

Wow, it's looking better.  717 has an interesting history and I'm 
sure there's more stories to be told.  Looks like another is saved 
from the scrap pile!


Hi !
 VIN 717 finally found a new owner here in France, a friend of mine. 
 I added some new pics in the photo section, after cleaning 10 years 
 of dust.


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:35:32 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>
Subject: DMC Console Clock Wanted

I'd like to buy a working DMC Console Clock. I would also be interested in a non-working one should there be no offers on a working one.

E-mail me your price privately.

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland

VIN # 06759

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:22:14 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: Re: direct wire Lockzilla?

Why would you want to do this? Seems to me if the battery is 
diconnected it's because you've stored the car. Why would you still 
need a remote to function then? 

You could just run a fused link right to the battery on the other 
side of the cutoff switch. Run it from the breaker that the LZ plugs 
into. Disconnect the wiring that goes into the harness so you don't 
reverse-feed that circuit. 

Dave S

--- In, "Henry" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> After I installed my battery cut-off switch this weekend, I now 
have entirely disabled my Lockzilla Remote (it's obvious, I know - 
but I didn't realize this before - duh!).  
> Anyway, how would people recommend I direct power Lockzilla and the 
door locks (but nothing else) so that I can still use the Remote?
> thanks,
> -Hank #1619


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:27:53 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Continued: Lowering Advice

We had better get the good from this thread before the moderator pulls
its plug...

You can slice through OEM DeLo springs like a knife through butter (no
joke -- try it on an old one) using a mere hobby tool. They aren't
exactly the strongest component on the car. I've had rivnuts put up
more resistance!

The whole reason I rotated mine was to match the "perch" (LCA spring
cradle). OEM springs are actually cocked funny because their naturally
flat bottom is forced into an installed angle. 

Merely lowering the front end an inch or so isn't going to have any
more effect than driving a stock car with an empty trunk and fuel tank
vs driving it fully loaded.

For the curious: I travel with a trunk full of tools, 3 ton floor
jack, jack stands, wheel blocks, etc (my luggage rides in the seat
next to me). My front end sits just as level as it does empty.

Bill Robertson

>--- In, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> On the subject of cutting springs to lower them at least cuting
> them with a cutting wheel is better than a torch. You aren't softening
> them up. The problem is as you shorten the spring you really should
> change the spring "rate". If you don't the car will bottom out easier,
> there is less spring and it is too soft. If when you cut the spring
> and you do not get the angle right then it won't sit right in the
> perch. This can cause the perch to wear or the end of the spring to
> bend or break. Now that you can buy the "correct" springs to lower the
> car most everyone is in agreement that it is a bad idea to cut the
> springs if you insist on lowering.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757 


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:20:34 -0500
From: DMCVIN6683 <>
Subject: Re: news from 717 !

Can you post a picture of the rims on VIN#717 because they look 

Mark V

On Monday, April 12, 2004, at 10:46  AM, ferdaniraphael wrote:

> Hi !
> VIN 717 finally found a new owner here in France, a friend of mine.
> I added some new pics in the photo section, after cleaning 10 years
> of dust.


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:28:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Steering column upper U-joint

In a message dated 4/12/04 3:47:09 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> Does anyone have any ideas on getting this back to the way it should 
> be. I can't see any way to pull the joint apart to really clean and 
> lube it and I hate the thought of having to spend $364 for a new 
> shaft/u-joint .
> Phil Priestley
> Vin#2105


Rob Grady once told me that they have had success in somewhat-restoring the U 
joints by putting them in a pan with 90 weight gear oil in it and heating it 
up really hot until the oil gets worked into the joint (by submerging the 
joint for a period of time).  you should call him up and ask him what his thoughts 
are nowadays.  this was like 4 years ago and i might not even have the 
procedure correct.

another (better but more expensive) solution is to contact Toby Peterson of 
DeLorean Parts Northwest to see how long it will be to get the whole shaft with 
both U-joints which he sells/will be selling.  I bought the last one from the 
Tinnerstet inventory, and Toby is now in control.  the website says they are 
out of stock.  This intermediate shaft comes complete with new U-joints (ball 
bearing, no less) and is a lot cheaper than replacing the whole thing with OEM 
parts.  the quality of the shaft i bought from Darryl T indicates many many 
years of smooth steering (plus the ball bearings will be better than OEM).  I 
plan to install it in a couple weeks (when Grady has rebuilt racks in stock 
again).  At any rate, talk to Rob and see if he can tell you how to get things 
moving smoothly again.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:02:30 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <>
Subject: Questions on Houstons engine

How good is DMCH's engine anyway? while i understand that their 
engine produces almost double the power over the stock engine, it 
does this at a higher RPM for both torque and hp. I'm not putting 
their engine down, not at all actually, but im really curious as to 
why their aspirations peaked where they did. Are the heads milled 
down? or ported and polished? has the engine been roller-ized? their 
description seems kinda vague. while the additional power is great, 
how much of that can be credited to the free- flow exhaust? Im sure 
they a running hotter cams but, Im under the impression that the PRV 
isnt such a limited engine, even with the low compression and odd- 
fire sequence. I dont know, but while Im thrilled to know that there 
are suppliers out there to keep our cars running and restored I wish 
there was some more diversity in the performance options....This is 
in no way a criticism of DMCH's engine just speaking my mind.


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: kevin creason <>
Subject: Re: Re: Weird Idle

Hey Alex-
I'd had this idle problem for a while too. It can
happen when the throttle spool plate shifts and
doesn't close the butterfly valves or your switches
don't make contact right. Another possibility is there
are vacuum leaks.
Anyway, my last problem like this was fixed
(inadvertantly, after months of fiddling and just
putting up with it) when I was in at DMCH getting
TAB's fixed/aligned. I mentioned something to Bill and
he whipped out a wrench and fixed it in about thirty
seconds. He dropped one end of the linkage rod and
shortened it a turn or two. It was just too long and
wasn't letting the butterfly valves seat all the way
Doh! I felt silly. But apparently, it is something he
sees all the time.
What a guy.


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:14:28 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <>
Subject: Electrical problem, please help...

I just got my car all back together and today I was ready to start it.
I tried to start it yesterday only my battery was junk. So I got a
brand new battery for it and installed it. When I turned the key, that
4 second or however long buzzing and clicking took place like usual I
hope you know which sound I'm talking about it comes from the relay
compartment I think. Also the idle motor was buzzing showing that it
was working- everything was working normally. Then I went to start the
car and the starter cranked for about 6 seconds and then suddenly
everything shut down. I disconnected/reconnected the battery and
everything came back on, but this time there was no buzzing from the
idle motor,and I can't get that period of buzzing again from the relay
compartment. I examined everything and here is what I found: Fuses
fine. My resistor wires were hooked up backwards/wrong. On the starter
I have 2 fat red wires also brown wires hooked up-the brown ones
crackle like a son of a gun when I move them-like its shorting out
kind of. There is a soft hum coming from the alternator unless I
unhook the fat cluster of wires running to the post on back. If I
unhook the wires from the back of the alternator my whole electrical
system is dead like the battery is unhooked, is this supposed to be?
Maybe I have some wiring in the wrong spots? The resistor is ice cold
even with the ignition on I believe it is supposed to get really hot.
I can still crank the engine but the fuel pump must be off since there
is no fuel smell, I poured some fuel in the engine and cranked it
doesn't come alive I forgot to check the spark I don't think there is
one though. I am running the stock resistor, the MSD coil and 8mm
wires. Someone please help, I was really looking forward to putting
the car
back on the road but I can't figure out what the problem is for the
life of me. Did I burn something out? Do you think I have something
hooked up wrong? Thanks for your past and future responses everyone.
Dan Benedek #5003.


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:28:13 -0000
From: "eremhcel" <>
Subject: Vacuum cap?

I was getting ready to put my manifold back on tonight when I noticed 
what looks like a vacuum cap sitting in one of the valleys of the 
engine block. It wasn't there on Saturday but it was there tonight. 
It's about an inch long by half-inch in diameter. Where did it come 
from? Could it have been covering the bleed screw for the clutch 
slave cylinder? Does it go somewhere to block off something? I'd hate 
to go and put everything back together and find out that part was 
causing a vacuum leak somewhere. Thanks for any help on this.


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:54:45 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <>
Subject: Wiring legand? Anyone?

I'm sorry I should have included this with my last post but does
anyone have the legand that goes with the wiring diagram? Mine has
gotten lost somehow. Thanks Dan Benedek #5003


Message: 15
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:10:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Inlet air manifold

Mr T
I bet you broke off the small and hard hose from the heater control. From 
behind the engine it goes into the left pontoon, right? Same thing happened to me 
and I haven't fixed it yet!

It appears that you didn't follow my advice to download and print the two 
articles from the Archives! There is an o-ring in the hole where the tube you 
mention goes through the lower air casing. In all probability you have nicked the 
0-ring and good luck fishing out the old one and replacing it with a new! 
Vin 1074

In a message dated 4/12/2004 3:38:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
I found one 
vacum line in the back, alittle one and I cant find where It goes, 
but I dont think just that little thing could be causing me all 
these problems.

Mr. T.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:33:13 -0000
From: "John" <>
Subject: Grey Paint for Front Bumber ??

Hi All,

   Can anyone point me in the direction of where to get some grey
   spray paint to match the original grey paint on the bumber ??

   I have repaired a slight knock on the front but need to get the 
   top coat to match in with the original colour.




Message: 17
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:25:28 EDT
Subject: Inch/mm conversion (Was Re: angle drive snapped (I think))

A simple conversion of inches to mm will give you 1.25 inch = 31.75mm
Sure, both a 1 1/4 and a 32 mm wrench will work.
VIN 1074

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:22:21 -0500
From: "Alex Wolf" <>
Subject: Ebay Item #2473329595

FYI Ebay item #2473329595 is not as nice as he claims it to be. Notice,
he says he needs the money for his new house, but he also says he will
take trades. I saw this car before I purchased mine, and it runs VERY
rough, the dash is cracked, and the dents are not as small as he says.
Straps are torn, a bunch of little things wrong. He swore to me up and
down that it was in perfect shape. Just looking out :)

Alex Wolf


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