From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1965
Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:17 AM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Questions on Houstons engine
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

2. Re: news from 717 !
From: "ferdaniraphael" <raf40_at_dml_wanadoo.fr>

3. Re: Questions on Houstons engine
From: Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

4. Re: Heater Core Shutoff Valve Vacuum Line
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. Re: Wiring legand? Anyone?
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

6. Re: Questions on Houstons engine
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. Re: Electrical problem, please help...
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. 7mm Cap Screws
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

9. Torsion Bar
From: "Michael M" <kenshin_at_dml_otaku-wired.net>

10. Re: Questions on Houstons engine
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

11. Found Radio Wire Harness
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>

12. Re: Electrical problem, please help...
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

13. Re: Questions on Houstons engine
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. ICI vinyl?
From: "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

15. three screws....
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

16. Re: news from 717 !
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

17. Re: Torsion Bar
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

18. Re: Torsion Bar
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

19. ED - YOU NEED A LIFE - YOUR'S IS BROKEN !
From: "maddog6198_2000" <maddog6198_at_dml_aol.com>

20. Continued: Electrical problem, please help...
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

21. Re: three screws....
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

22. Continued: Questions on Houstons engine
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

23. Re: 7mm Cap Screws
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

24. Looking for DeLorean near SW Missouri to rent for prom
From: "steckerelectronix" <steckerelectronix_at_dml_yahoo.com>

25. RE: 7mm Cap Screws
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:41:06 -0400
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on Houstons engine

You certainly seem scared of coming off as criticizing their engine/them... I
think people need to criticize a bit or how else do we know what's really true
or what's said due to fear of rubbing people the wrong way.

On the other hand, I agree with you in regards to the lack of performance
options. Our cars are not the only ones that have this engine... I find it odd.

Regards,

Michael
vin 6067



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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:19:04 -0000
From: "ferdaniraphael" <raf40_at_dml_wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: news from 717 !

Right, the rims are aftermarket.( Gotti wheels I guess...)
I don't have a close-up but will post as soon as I can.
It appears the car was actually thoroughly inspected by drug 
inspectors, as the owner found lots of missing or loose screws ( 
pump access panel, fascias, rearlights and so on....)
very funny !
Raphael
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> Can you post a picture of the rims on VIN#717 because they look 
> aftermarket.
> 
> Mark V





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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on Houstons engine

This topic has been beaten to death. All they've told us is they change the cam, put in their free flow exhaust, and do a port and polish. I highly doubt they would mill heads as it's not something you can really reverse without buying new heads. They made this system to be nearly invisable and easily reversible. They system doesn't make twice as much power, but it does make about 50% MORE power than the stock engine. Not bad for keeping the car naturally aspirated. Their stage 1 engines (formerly called stage II) are rated at 197 hp and 193 ft-lb torque. They also have an electronic fuel injection system in the works that will provide about 30 hp. There is also a nitrous system in the works, and they also recently started selling performance ignition parts. If you want the graphs charting their new performance numbers, and how it changed the power band, just go here:
http://www.delorean.com/performance.asp
Or better yet, give them a call and actually ask THEM! :-) 

I have only driven their automatic stage 1 car, so I can't comment on performance "feel," but almost everyone I know who has driven their manual transmission stage 1 car was thrilled by the added performance, and how the extra power kicked in where the stock DeLo would normally start dying out. There is diversity in hopping our engines up, have you not been paying attention? You can still buy the Island Twin Turbo kit, there are people out there who are making performance air filters, air boxes, cold air intakes, ignition components, suspension systems, etc etc etc. Just dig around some and you might be surprised at what you find. :-)


Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:35:01 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Heater Core Shutoff Valve Vacuum Line

You may discover that line broken under the console as well. Ages
about as well as all other hard plastic DeLo lines.

Vacuum is only routed through it at Max A/C, so you won't have a
vacuum leak otherwise.

I ran an entirely new line of rubber from the Tee by the mode switch
to my valve. Windshield washer hose is the proper inside diameter. Bit
of a tight fit through the pontoon grommet, but with lubricant it will
slide through. Be sure to route it away from hot items in the engine
compartment.

Mr T's problems are indeed probably caused by the leaking idle speed
motor supply tube. That's a 3/4" vacuum leak -- much too large to
meter any fuel.

Could he not replace its O ring by simply loosening and raising the
back of the upper air assembly above the driver intake rail?

Bill Robertson
#5939



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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:39:42 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring legand? Anyone?

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/wiringlegend.jpg

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> I'm sorry I should have included this with my last post but does
> anyone have the legand that goes with the wiring diagram? Mine has
> gotten lost somehow. Thanks Dan Benedek #5003




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:41:25 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Questions on Houstons engine

I can tell you that the top end limit for this engine is around 220,
normally aspirated (they shouldn't be turbo'd). However, DMCH are
limited by having to retain the lambda system. European versions are
capable of more because you can do away with it.

My own _personal_ experience of Houston's engine is that it lacks
low-end torque compared to a stock DeLorean engine with catalytic
converter removed. It still shines near the red-line though. Removing 
the cat and lambda are luxuries we can play with over here in Europe! My 
own car has the cat removed and ignition and fuelling from a
Volvo B28E. It's a lot of fun to drive.

Best Wishes

Martin



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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:56:42 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical problem, please help...

Sounds like a dead short. Your previous battery may have been OK but
drained by the short (it'll happen within minutes). Even if you got
the engine running, the short would have killed ignition shortly
thereafter.

Ensure none of the wires joined on the back of the starter motor are
grounding. There are so many, and they are so inflexible (with odd
shaped terminals no less), it is easy to do. I made a short little
pigtail to move my junction into mid air, leaving only one wire to
connect to the starter motor. I also added a second nut to the
solenoid stud to move my pigtail farther away.

The brown and red wires come BEFORE the fuse block. There's no
protection for a short down there.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> I just got my car all back together and today I was ready to start it.
> I tried to start it yesterday only my battery was junk. So I got a
> brand new battery for it and installed it. When I turned the key, that
> 4 second or however long buzzing and clicking took place like usual I
> hope you know which sound I'm talking about it comes from the relay
> compartment I think. Also the idle motor was buzzing showing that it
> was working- everything was working normally. Then I went to start the
> car and the starter cranked for about 6 seconds and then suddenly
> everything shut down........ Did I burn something out? Do you think I have something hooked up wrong? Thanks for your past and future responses everyone.
> Dan Benedek #5003.




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:26:42 -0400
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: 7mm Cap Screws

I forget who it was (besides me) that was mentioning the need for the 7mm Cap
Screws that go into the back of the water pump. I am working on securing a
supply of these and will let you all know when I have completed that. Once
secured, I will let you know pricing and which vendor/s I will sell through - if
not myself.

regards,

Michael
vin 6067



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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:00:05 -0400
From: "Michael M" <kenshin_at_dml_otaku-wired.net>
Subject: Torsion Bar

Hi, I have gotten into a bind.  I have the car about ready to move now so
that the rest of the work that needs to be done can be done but the LH
torsion bar is broken.  I have contacted DMCH and they don't have any but
are trying to make some but said things are going slow, and Delorean One
will not sell me one of theirs because I am not an existing customer.  I
have had the car since November and it came with the torsion bar broken but
I have got everything else back working in it, now need to move it to a
place where it can be lifted and all, but with the drivers door unable to
open I can't get it tagged and ready to go.  Does anyone here on the list
know where I may be able to get a torsion bar for the car?

 

Mike M



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:35:56 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Questions on Houstons engine

You've already answered your own question: "it does this at a higher
RPM". HP is calculated: Torque x RPM / 5252. In an engine so capable,
increasing RPM will increase HP -- it's a mathematical certainty. Note
however that every engine has a point of maximum power output, after
which increasing RPM only produces more noise (HP and torque will
actually go down, sometimes precipitously). This is the engine's power
curve.

People get all strung out over HP, yet a HP number by itself (without
the RPM's at which it was calculated) tells you very little. A high
torque engine operating in a fairly narrow power band may post low HP
numbers, but is actually more powerful than a low torque, high rev'ing
engine with higher HP numbers. That's one reason you never see a
sports car towing a boat trailer. Note also that such an engine is
useless until it rev's up to its power band -- if you can't get there,
you have nothing. Standing still, that 300 HP sports car hooked to a
boat trailer would either stall, or burn up its clutch/clutch discs,
trying to move.

Back to your original question: Houston has obviously raised both
torque and the PRV power curve. I suspect the former is achieved with
increased compression (doesn't displacement remain 2.8L?). The latter
is probably a result of higher/shorter duration cams, perhaps bigger
valves, and ignition timing. Houston's engine is still normally
aspirated -- freer flowing intake/exhaust will help, but not 60 HP
worth. Nor will lower friction components alone.

Bill Robertson
#5939



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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:57:37 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Found Radio Wire Harness

For those of you that are looking for the nine-pin radio wire harness 
adapter, www.allelectronics.com has a bunch real cheap.  Catalog 
number CON-90 in the search field will bring them up.

Johnny
5518






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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:06:06 -0000
From: "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical problem, please help...

For an update: I do not have any spark I tested it today, my fuel pump
reads 3.16 volts on both posts of the pump, is this correct? RPM relay
seems to be feeding the resistor blue/yellow wire with 12 volts, and
on the other side of the resistor I have 12 volts still. The
microswitch for the idle speed motor is not faulty, but the motor
still doesn't work. Could my problem be the RPM relay? The resistor?
Also I cannot find a reference on which side to hook up the wires on
the coil, I have the correct wiring combo, but 2 wires to the + side,
and 1 to the -. Is it supposed to be the other way around? lastly, I
noticed my oil light glowing very very dim with the ignition off. This
is driving me nuts! Dan Benedek #5003




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:53:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on Houstons engine

When this engine first came out, I asked the same
question.

The response I got was that the heads were milled to
increase compression (I imagine this is minimal due to
the timing chain length).  Most of the performance
gain came from the free-flow exhaust and hot cams. 
IMHO, the free flow exhaust probably accounts for at
least half of the performance gain.

You can do a lot with the PRV to get more power out of
it.  However, I think 190 is about the max you could
do without MAJOR engine modification or forced
induction. I investigated a number of options, but
found them to all be very expensive.

How do you figure it is double?  I thought it went
from 130 to 190? That is like 65% increase, right?

After considering the DMCH engine as well as other
options to increase performance, I opted to TRY and do
my own conversion.  My feeling was that engine
technology had been improved so much in the past 25
years that it was silly to spend money on the PRV...
Of course, at the rate I am going there will be a new
and better engine by the time I am done!  :)


--- spaceace3113 <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
> How good is DMCH's engine anyway? while i understand
<SNIP>


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:50:39 -0000
From: "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: ICI vinyl?

Has anyone located a source to get ICI black vinyl, or rather, a 
near-exact match?  I am needing it to recover my a-pillar trim pieces.

Matt
#1604




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:22:10 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: three screws....

List,

I was searching the archive for the post that another member (was it you, 
Bill Robertson?) sent up a few months ago relating to the use of the 'three brass 
screws' in the Renault manuals.  i was thinking of trying what the writer 
suggested about using them to balance out both banks.  i finally have my car 
running 100% according to the DMC manuals and am now a little interested in 
experimenting.  just thought i would check it out and see how i like it.  

if someone could repost the information, i would be grateful!

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:43:47 -0400
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: news from 717 !

> It appears the car was actually thoroughly inspected by drug 
> inspectors, as the owner found lots of missing or loose screws ( 


So maybe the old "cocaine in the seats/wheels" joke isn't a joke afterall!!   :)

-Hank



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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:47:13 -0400
From: "Henry" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar

>  Does anyone here on the list
> know where I may be able to get a torsion bar for the car?

There's a LH torsion bar on ebay now: item# 2472659507

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2472659507

-Hank



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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:43:24 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar

I have a LH torsion bar on ebay right now.  The auction ends on 
Thursday.  Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=10076&item=2472659507&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT

Cheers,
Josh



Michael M wrote:

>Hi, I have gotten into a bind.  I have the car about ready to move now so
>that the rest of the work that needs to be done can be done but the LH
>torsion bar is broken......  Does anyone here on the list
>know where I may be able to get a torsion bar for the car?



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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:09:10 -0000
From: "maddog6198_2000" <maddog6198_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: ED - YOU NEED A LIFE - YOUR'S IS BROKEN !

I was totally blown away when I called Delorean One and asked to 
buy some valve stems for my D.
 
Because I wrote on the DML 3 years ago that Dave Bauerle is a nice 
guy and a good repair facility, Ed refused to sell me valve stems. 
 
He also knew what tires I put on my car in order to save my NCT's. 
 
He also stated to me that he is taking appointments up to August 
and not selling me valve stems will in no way effect his business. 

It is apparent he is into mind games and tracks all of the DML 
posts by VIN number and saves them on his computer.

For the record,   Ed, I chose not to listen to the hear say that 
you were unprofessional and in need of Prozac, however, you have 
lived up to your reputation. 

BE SURE AND ADD THIS ONE TO YOUR FILE !
 
  
Sincerely,
 
John Curry
83 - 15943




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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:45:01 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Continued: Electrical problem, please help...

You're shooting juice backwards through the ground side of your
electrical system. If your new battery isn't dead yet, it soon will
be. Disconnect it, then trace your short.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> For an update: I do not have any spark I tested it today, my fuel pump
> reads 3.16 volts on both posts of the pump, is this correct? RPM relay
> seems to be feeding the resistor blue/yellow wire with 12 volts, and
> on the other side of the resistor I have 12 volts still. The
> microswitch for the idle speed motor is not faulty, but the motor
> still doesn't work. Could my problem be the RPM relay? The resistor?
> Also I cannot find a reference on which side to hook up the wires on
> the coil, I have the correct wiring combo, but 2 wires to the + side,
> and 1 to the -. Is it supposed to be the other way around? lastly, I
> noticed my oil light glowing very very dim with the ignition off. This
> is driving me nuts! Dan Benedek #5003




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:23:09 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: three screws....

Ah, the forbidden brass screws...

Volvo literature claims that shear heads were used for US emissions
law. I've uploaded a page to #5939's photo album documenting such.
They're the same size screw as the air inlet screw -- for $10 or so
you can replace them with a fully functional set. Note that European
PRV's didn't use them.

I've uploaded an ASCII file (IDLE.TXT) to the Files section explaining
how to set them in lieu of the idle speed motor. Can't tell you the
number of times people have told me a PRV won't run without CIS.
Nonsense. Not only do I have no idle speed motor, I don't even have
the ECU in my car anymore! And what do these people think Dourvin was
doing for 10 years before CIS was invented?

Bill Robertson
#5939



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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:53:22 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Continued: Questions on Houstons engine

I'm willing to bet they swap the pistons for European spec (E series).
Like you, I originally thought increased PRV compression was done in
the heads, as contemporary Americans did. Turns out Dourvin left the
heads alone and increased piston height. Connecting rods may be longer
too.

Houston's engine *MUST* have higher compression to yield those numbers
without forced induction. Plus there was a thread last fall from a new
owner with one who was having terrible pre-detonation problems,
probably from running too low octane.

Could someone on List with a Houston block do a compression test and
post the results? Stock E series is 160-170 PSI.

Bill Robertson
#5939



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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:40:07 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: 7mm Cap Screws

I get my cap screws from Patriot screws 
They are pretty standard in zinc and black oxide

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:03:40 -0000
From: "steckerelectronix" <steckerelectronix_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking for DeLorean near SW Missouri to rent for prom

Hello 'Yall

     I am looking for a DeLorean to rent somewhere near Southwest 
Missouri, for the Aurora High School Prom.  My name is Robert 
Stecker, and I can be reached at (417)-678-6429.  Must have the car 
by Noon on Saturday, April 17 2004, but would be nice if i could get 
by that friday afternoon.  I am fully insured (full coverage on 
anything I drive) through Shelter Mutual Insurance Company (policy 
number available upon demand).  I will not be able to take the car 
very far to deliver it back to the owner, so I am asking that the car 
be in a three-hour drive time radius from Springfield mo, or Aurora 
mo (65605 zip).  IF you have a car with a reasonable deposit and rent 
price, please contact me ASAP at (417)-678-6429, FAX (417)-678-6022, 
or e-mail me crazycitroenperson_at_dml_yahoo.com , or 
theposlebaron_at_dml_delorean.com *.  Thanks,
Robert Stecker
"d" less at the moment.
1989 Toyota X-Cab lifted mud truck shtbed Rarity - "Toter on Crack"

*useage of a DeLorean.com e-mail address is not meant to appear that 
I am affilliated with DeLorean motor company in any way.  In fact, I 
am not.  These e-mail addresses are free access, open to all.  Check 
them out at http://www.delorean.com.




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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:14:27 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: 7mm Cap Screws

I have plenty of 7mm cap screws for the back of the water pump. I am  also
have them plated Zinc Yellow Chromate if needed.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Paine [mailto:mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com]
Subject: [DML] 7mm Cap Screws


I forget who it was (besides me) that was mentioning the need for the 7mm
Cap Screws that go into the back of the water pump. I am working on securing a
supply of these and will let you all know when I have completed that. Once
secured, I will let you know pricing and which vendor/s I will sell
through - if
not myself.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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