From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1976
Date: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:06 PM

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Continued: Problems With Valeo Brand Clutch Discs?
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. Still getting the looks from other drivers....
From: KiwiDean_at_dml_aol.com

3. Things heard at car show
From: "vanisland03" <vjca_at_dml_telus.net>

4. Re: Funniest Things Heard
From: "pdmytrewycz" <pauld_at_dml_pauld.net>

5. Re: Bucking and Kicking
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Re: Funniest Things Heard
From: TrekkerLB_at_dml_Netzero.Com

7. Re: Continued: Problems With Valeo Brand Clutch Discs?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

8. Re: catalytic converter question
From: "rendycheng" <rendycheng_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: Re: Funniest Things Heard
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. RE: RE: Unused wires in door harness
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

11. Re: Gathering of DeLoreans (Yes)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

12. Re: Continued: Problems With Valeo Brand Clutch Discs?
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

13. Re: Funniest Things Heard
From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>

14. Southern D Owners
From: "Alex Wolf" <alex_at_dml_ancira.com>

15. Re: Re: catalytic converter question
From: "Tom" <tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:15:12 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Continued: Problems With Valeo Brand Clutch Discs?

Because the female splines on the input shaft are too big to slip
through the bellhousing, I have removed the bellhousing/input
shaft/throwout bearing/trapped pressure plate/stuck clutch disc as a
complete assembly. Tomorrow it'll be pressed off.

On close examination it appears the splines on my clutch disc are not
cut equally. Rather than matching angles on either side, it looks as
though one side is angled and the other is more vertical. I'll examine
it under magnification after removal.

Clutch manufacturing problems are not unheard of. A friend of mine got
one for his Volkswagon that wobbled like a wheel on a jalopy. Our
railroad got one for a truck that chattered unacceptably. If the
French are still mad at us for Iraq, I may have paid the price ("give
ze American a clutch from zat pile over zere").

Sorry to say I didn't test fit this disc on the input shaft. It was
freezing weather and I had a deadline (aborted 'Fridge Run). Since
I'll have to use the input shaft as an alignment tool -- only
purchased a replacement clutch disc, not a complete kit -- can
guarantee the new one will slide on (if my input shaft splines have
survived).

Addendum to the Workshop Manual: nowhere does it tell you to drain the
gear oil before removing the bellhousing. On a normal transmission,
the bellhousing does NOT form the front of the transmission itself.
The French had no such compunction. Will buy some kitty litter
tomorrow to clean up my mess.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I've installed a least a half dozen of them with no issues. 
> 
> BTW the "Centerforce" clutch is a re-painted Valeo. There is no 
> alternative available. Where did you buy it? There is a spline size 
> used by Toyota that looks identical but absolutely will not fit. I'm 
> not aware of a toyota clutch in the proper diameter though.
> 
> If there's a fit issue it's probably with your trans. Is the input 
> shaft twisted from all that power? Did you try sliding the disc onto 
> the input shaft prior to installation? What did you use for an 
> alignment tool? ( I use an old input shaft). 
> 
> Dave
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
> wrote:
> > My transmission is currently lying in the driveway with a Valeo 
> brand
> > clutch disc hopelessly stuck on the input shaft. Splines are lined 
> up.
> > Input shaft inserted into the disc effortlessly until the 
> bellhousing
> > was 1/4" or so from the block, then put up serious resistance. I
> > suspect that was the point at which the disc became stuck.
> > 
> > The old disc, also Valeo brand, was stuck on the input shaft too 
> (wore
> > the pressure plate side down to the rivets but barely touched the
> > flywheel side). At first I thought it was rusted from sitting up too
> > long, but now am beginning to wonder if the problem is really a fit
> > issue with Valeo clutch discs.
> > 
> > Has anybody else had problems with Valeo clutch discs? Are other
> > brands available? (If so, from what source?)
> > 
> > Thanks for the info,
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:56:26 -0400
From: KiwiDean_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Still getting the looks from other drivers....

Nice balm for the ego whenever I'm driving.  You'd think that these folk have never seen a DeLorean, though others have asked me if they could still buy one - preferably with the flux capacitor option!

Dean Thomas
VIN#16259
CA Plate OWTASYT



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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:32:31 -0000
From: "vanisland03" <vjca_at_dml_telus.net>
Subject: Things heard at car show

Two guys walked up to my D. The first guy says "they had to quit 
making these things" the other guy says "why ?" the first guy says 
because the stainless steel plate they used was so heavy that that 
little motor couldn't pull it out of a wet paper bag" second guy "is 
that right ?"  Little did he know that I was standing next to the car 
telling someone else about the pep the car had. I let him go away in 
his own dream world.
Vic
1794




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:01:38 -0000
From: "pdmytrewycz" <pauld_at_dml_pauld.net>
Subject: Re: Funniest Things Heard

Well, mine's not so much funny as just sad. I've been saving to buy a 
Delorean for about a year now. (I'll be the one in Pigeon Forge 
crossing his fingers while simultaneously rubbing a rabbit's foot 
when the raffle winner is drawn.) I told a good friend of mine about 
my dream, and he patted me on the back condescendingly. He said "glad 
to hear you're willing to contribute to the Colombian economy" (a not-
so-subtle allusion to cocaine). I informed him that his assumptions 
were based on myth and that the facts were that JZD was completely 
acquitted/exonerated. My friend rolled his eyes and said, "Paul, you 
know as well as I do that an acquittal does not necessarily mean you 
are innocent." I replied, "indeed, and an accusation does not 
necessarily mean you're guilty." I then offered him my copy of JZD's 
autobiography, which I believe gives a pretty thorough (if one-sided) 
description of the flaccidity (is that a word?) of the government's 
case against JZD. My friend has yet to read it.

Some people are just so set on believing the hype.

Paul D.
-no VIN :(




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:16:02 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Bucking and Kicking

It isn't that big a deal to siphon the fuel out. Loosen up the fuel
pump boots and slip a hose in. Siphon out as much as you can into a
gas can and scoop out the rest with a cup. Finish up with rags or
paper towels. Do this outdooors in the driveway with plenty of fresh
air, NO trouble lights or flashlights, and NO SMOKING.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "TalksToGod" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> Today the car drove just fine. So when the tank level gets lower I
> will take the pump out and inspect the lines. I would do it now I just
> don't want to get fuel all over the place doing it. I will let you
> know how it goes. Thanks for all your help guys! Dan Benedek #5003




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:49:40 GMT
From: TrekkerLB_at_dml_Netzero.Com
Subject: Re: Funniest Things Heard

When I first got my D, My son told all his friends which didn't believe him, so I took him to school one morning.  That's when one of the mom's told her kid that the car belonged to someone who she thinks is still in Jail - what a wonderful thing to tell a kid!

As for my son - he loved showing it off!

To Paul D.  In north jersey there is one in a used car dealership - I just saw it from outside the fence, but looked good from the body - asking 13K.  E-mail me off list if you want anything else.

Luis & 3723



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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:27:40 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Continued: Problems With Valeo Brand Clutch Discs?

After a "few" years of experience I have figured out by now that you
dry fit ALL parts before assembly. When the trans is up in the air it
is no time to find out you can't get the splined shaft to enter the
clutch plate. Besides, I usually find you have to "dress up" or polish
the shaft sometimes to get everything to slide nice. The old clutch
plate was riding in only one spot on the shaft so the rest tends to
get dirty, rusty, etc while the spot the plate rides on gets a little
loose. Sometimes you have to try different positions, some fit looser
than others. I once had a wrong pilot bearing and just could not get
the trans all the way on. (not on a Delorean but a BIG truck). After
trying to force the parts together we finally took it down and the
pilot bearing was a mess. Again the moral of this little story is to
check and dry-fit before final assembly. Draining the fluids also
comes with experience. 90W gear oil is sticky when it runs down your
sleeve, your neck, your hair, etc on a hot summer day.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Because the female splines on the input shaft are too big to slip
> through the bellhousing, I have removed the bellhousing/input
> shaft/throwout bearing/trapped pressure plate/stuck clutch disc as a
> complete assembly. Tomorrow it'll be pressed off.
> 





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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:37:16 -0000
From: "rendycheng" <rendycheng_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: catalytic converter question

David,

Thanks for such detail explanation.   I think the things I have not done are the valve 
adjustment, compression test, injector test.

thanks again.

rendy

> OK, here is a plan of attack:
> Have the fuel injectors tested and cleaned
> Replace the seals on them
> Go over ALL the vacuum hoses for ANY vacuum leaks
> Check the initial timing and the vacuum and mechanical advance
> Make sure the plug over the mixture screw is not leaking vacuum
> Wipe the venturi (throat) of the air sensor and plate and make sure it
>      moves freely and is centered
> Make sure the ignition wires are in GOOD condition and regap the spark
> plugs
> Shake the air filter and if it is dirty replace it
> Replace the O2 sensor, reset the Lambda counter and check the intake
> and exhaust valves for clearance.
> Mkae sure the Lambda system sysetm is functioning properly.
> Do a compression test, they should be within 5% of each other and over
> 100 psi
> Get rid of the 87 octane and put 91 or higher in for the test
> Drive it for a while to clear out the converter before you go for
> another test. If it hasn't been overheated from all the HC it should
> be alright. When a "D" is set up correctly you can pass even with a
> hollowed out converter in most States. You should also make sure the 3
> brass screws are closed and the motor is running on the idle system.
> This is a lot of work but I don't know if the previous work was done
> "right". For instance a 30,000 mile service is SUPPOSED TO include an
> O2 sensor and a valve adjustment. You might also need a distributer
> cap and rotor and a fuel filter. Maybe even an oil change and filter.
> Yes, it could affect the emmisions if it needs an oil change or is
> overfilled with oil. You should also make sure the cooling system is
> working right. If the thermostat is stuck open or the fans run all the
> time the motor could be running too cool which increases emissions.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "rendycheng" <rendycheng_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > ## This is from the original poster ##
> > 
> > Here is the complete info on my smog test:
> > 
> >  RPM=2292 (at 15mph)
> >  HC_MAX = 141 HC_GP=331 HC_MEAS = 161
> >  CO_MAX = 0.99 CO_GP=2.49 CO_MEAS=0.66
> >  NOX_MAX = 1148 NOX_GP = 2270 NOX_MEAS = 2211
> >




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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:59:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Funniest Things Heard

I stopped in a gas station in Utah last year and a
fellow there was telling me all about my DeLorean. 
They were assembled, you know, in Logan, Utah.  I told
him that was not correct.  Logan was the home of the
DeLorean snow grooming plant and, thus, there sure
might have been a couple of DelOreans parked out
there, but that was not where they were assembled.

His comment was that "you new owners always think you
know so much - BUT, they WERE assembled there".

I should have quit at that point but, dumb me, I
replied that I lived in a ski resort where we used
DeLorean snow groomers and, further, I had owned a
DeLorean since 1982.

He just shook his head and said, "SEE, that proves it.
 The dang things weren't even built 'til 1985!!"

Dick Ryan
 6530 from 1982 - 1997
16867 from 1997 - eternity!

--- dmcorlando2003 <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com> wrote:
> Best one I ever had was when I was out washing my
> car and an older 
> guy came up to me and said, "I had one just like
> that years ago when 
> I lived in Canada..." and he started to tell me how
> much he enjoyed 
> it.  So I thought he was just reliving some fond
> memories of his 
> delorean with me and then he says that he lived
> fairly close to the 
> factory there in Canada where they were built and
> proceeds to tell me 
> how he had to crawl out the back hatch of his car
> when the air tank 
> failed and asked if I have had to do the same
> !?!?!?!
> 
> ........had to explain to him that he owned a
> Briklin and not a 
> Delorean....
> 
> Michael 
> VIN#2944



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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:18:43 -0700
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Unused wires in door harness

If you replace your (three wire) door lock solenoids with (two-tire
relay-switched) door lock actuators, you will end up with a spare wire.

I did this to mine and used the spare wire for my Door Launcher setup.

Gary
IN2TIME




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:21 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Gathering of DeLoreans (Yes)

JAN,

Any time 30 Deloreans get together for an event is an official
Delorean gathering in my book and many others on the list.

Send some photos to DMCNews to put under "Gatherings" section
on the DMCNews website.  It's there to post Delorean Gatherings
such as the one you mentioned.  Make sure to include details 
about the event and any descriptions of photos, if necessary.

Thanks for reporting on it.

Later,
Rich W.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've just gotten back from our first
> local/national club meeting for this season.
> 
> I use the term local/national as our entire
> country is only about as large as the states
> of Vermont and New Hampshire put together...
> 
> We had a count of 30 DeLoreans there, which
> made me wonder what the average count of
> cars is on an OFFICIAL club meeting...
>
> snip <




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:45:49 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Continued: Problems With Valeo Brand Clutch Discs?

Bill,

I have an old clutch disc that looks just as you described.
I took it off of a car that I refurbished a few years ago,
but never took a really close look at it since I replaced
the whole clutch assembly (disc, pp, t/o and pilot bearings)

The disc is completely worn down to the rivits on one side
and looks almost new on the other side.

I'll bring it by Dave Swingle's palce this weekend and we
can try to determine the root cause.

Later,
Rich W.

> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> 
wrote:
> > I've installed a least a half dozen of them with no issues. 
> > 
> > BTW the "Centerforce" clutch is a re-painted Valeo. There is no 
> > alternative available. Where did you buy it? There is a spline 
size 
> > used by Toyota that looks identical but absolutely will not fit. 
I'm 
> > not aware of a toyota clutch in the proper diameter though.
> > 
> > If there's a fit issue it's probably with your trans. Is the 
input 
> > shaft twisted from all that power? Did you try sliding the disc 
onto 
> > the input shaft prior to installation? What did you use for an 
> > alignment tool? ( I use an old input shaft). 
> > 
> > Dave
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
> > wrote:
> > > My transmission is currently lying in the driveway with a 
Valeo 
> > brand
> > > clutch disc hopelessly stuck on the input shaft. Splines are 
lined 
> > up.
> > > Input shaft inserted into the disc effortlessly until the 
> > bellhousing
> > > was 1/4" or so from the block, then put up serious resistance. 
I
> > > suspect that was the point at which the disc became stuck.
> > > 
> > > The old disc, also Valeo brand, was stuck on the input shaft 
too 
> > (wore
> > > the pressure plate side down to the rivets but barely touched 
the
> > > flywheel side). At first I thought it was rusted from sitting 
up too
> > > long, but now am beginning to wonder if the problem is really 
a fit
> > > issue with Valeo clutch discs.
> > > 
> > > Has anybody else had problems with Valeo clutch discs? Are 
other
> > > brands available? (If so, from what source?)
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the info,
> > > 
> > > Bill Robertson
> > > #5939




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:54:05 -0400
From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>
Subject: Re: Funniest Things Heard

Hey Paul

You've taken your first step into a larger world of sarcasm and abuse.
Everybody gives me hell about my car, even if they're just poking fun at me.

They're jealous, of course... :)

Eric Itzel
vin 4433

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pdmytrewycz" <pauld_at_dml_pauld.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Funniest Things Heard


> Well, mine's not so much funny as just sad. I've been saving to buy a
> Delorean for about a year now. (I'll be the one in Pigeon Forge
> crossing his fingers while simultaneously rubbing a rabbit's foot
> when the raffle winner is drawn.) I told a good friend of mine about
> my dream, and he patted me on the back condescendingly. He said "glad
> to hear you're willing to contribute to the Colombian economy" (a not-
> so-subtle allusion to cocaine). I informed him that his assumptions
> were based on myth and that the facts were that JZD was completely
> acquitted/exonerated. My friend rolled his eyes and said, "Paul, you
> know as well as I do that an acquittal does not necessarily mean you
> are innocent." I replied, "indeed, and an accusation does not
> necessarily mean you're guilty." I then offered him my copy of JZD's
> autobiography, which I believe gives a pretty thorough (if one-sided)
> description of the flaccidity (is that a word?) of the government's
> case against JZD. My friend has yet to read it.
>
> Some people are just so set on believing the hype.
>
> Paul D.
> -no VIN :(



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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:51:28 -0500
From: "Alex Wolf" <alex_at_dml_ancira.com>
Subject: Southern D Owners

I would like to see if anyone in Texas has anything planned in the near
future, maybe a tech session type of thing? Preferably in south central
Texas. I keep seeing all these pics from past sessions, but they're all up
north!!! It would be cool to get some owners together, maybe in New
Braunfels? Just a shot in the dark.

Alex Wolf
#4608 
www.deloreanowners.com 

 




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:59:03 +0200
From: "Tom" <tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net>
Subject: Re: Re: catalytic converter question

Hello all

This question is IMPORTANT for all DeLorean owners even though it is
directed to David Teitelbaum.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>


<SNIP>
> Get rid of the 87 octane and put 91 or higher in for the test
<SNIP>

David, why do tell people to use 91 octane fuel? You are wrong! You are in
the USA and you have different method for determining the octane rating than
Europe. What is 91 in Europe is the same as 87 in the USA. This has been
discussed on the DML many times before but it seems that some people still
make that mistake. If you use higher octane gas it will cause the HC to go
UP!! Higher octane fuel burns slower and because our PRV is designed for 87
the gas doesn't have enough time to burn completly.

USE 87 OCTANE GAS IN YOUR DELOREAN!! It was designed for 87 and higher
octane rating fuel is doing more bad than good. So if you need to pass your
emissions test you should use LOWER rating gas, but not lower than the
engine was designed for.

Looking at the owner's manual for the DeLorean (PDF version) we find the
follwing:
Page 40
---------------
Fuel Requirements
U.S.A.
Your De Lorean is designed to operate at factory specifications at UNLEADED
GASOLINE only of at least 87 anti-knock index (R+M/2) (91 research octane
number)
---------------

For the interested: the difference in octane rating comes from different
methods used to determine the octane number. In Europe it is a RESEARCH
method. In the US the is R+M/2 (research + motor / 2) - you can find it on
every gas pump next to the octane rating. Because of the different methods
91 in Europe is THE SAME as 87 in the US.

Let's hope this will clear up this confusion... until the next time.

This of course applies to stock PRV engine. If your engine runs really bad
on 87 it means that there's something wrong with it.

Tom Niemczewski
tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net
VIN 6149
Save the dream so you can live the dream...




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