From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1984
Date: Monday, April 26, 2004 7:19 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Removing Angle Drive Circular Spring
From: "Bob Hlavacek" <>

2. RE: Mid atlntic a PJ Grady's
From: "" <>

3. Auto Tranny Dip Stick

4. Re: DeLorean ownership; an ego trip & funniest thing ever heard Cont'd...
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

5. Vapor System Problem
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

6. Bob Dewey
From: "Brian McCool" <>

7. Funniest thing ever heard
From: "Michael Paine" <>

8. First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED
From: "Roland Smith" <>

9. automatic transmission governor computer research
From: "sweitzel_2000" <>

10. Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...
From: "Dave Stragand" <>

11. Re: A couple questions about Pigeon Forge

12. Clutch Installation Questions
From: "content22207" <>

13. RE: How to deal with smart alecks
From: "Joe Thome" <>

14. Delorean Game Money
From: "Charlie G" <>

15. RE: Power loss resolved?
From: "John Hervey" <>

16. Re: won't stay running
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

17. Re: Power loss resolved?

18. Advantages of 28 spline clutch discs?
From: "content22207" <>

19. michelin pilot

20. A little help in Indianapolis
From: "aaron_t_graham" <>

21. Re: Re: Funniest Things Heard
From: Gus Schlachter <>

22. Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))
From: "ryanpwright" <>

23. Re: Removing Angle Drive Circular Spring
From: "thebrave65" <>

24. Re: First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

25. Fuel system revisited
From: "cruznmd" <>

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:00:47 -0400
From: "Bob Hlavacek" <>
Subject: Removing Angle Drive Circular Spring

Does anyone know how to remove the circular spring from the old angle drive
so you can retrieve the large nut?  The instructions say compress the spring
with two small screwdrivers, but I don't find that possible.

Thanks for your help!

Bob Hlavacek


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:52:30 -0400
From: "" <>
Subject: RE: Mid atlntic a PJ Grady's

Any other people attending mid Atlantic social who are from out of town and
want to meet on Friday Night for dinner send me a E-Mail private
-----Original Message-----
From: spaceace3113 [] 
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 12:47 PM
Subject: [DML] Mid atlntic a PJ Grady's

  Are any of you guys going? I live in NYC so its no big deal for me...just
wanted to know so I could meet you guys and thank you personally for all
your help over the years, as Im not going to Pigeon forge. Not to mention
I'd love to get some pics of 502.



Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:03:57 EDT
Subject: Auto Tranny Dip Stick


Thank you for that measurement.  Mine is 26 and 3/8 inches from the edge of 
the red plastic handle that seats on the fill tube to the tip of the "wire".  
There are no marking on my stick and it is made out of a coiled metal material 
like the outside metal sheath of a release cable of some sort.  The coils of 
the stick make it more difficult to see the level of the oil and the oil 
quickly dissipates into the groves of the coil making a reading even more difficult.

Is yours a standard flat metal strip?

If we are measuring from the same reference point then mine must be too short.

What do you think?

Dave & 6530

Message: 19
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:38:02 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: Auto Tranny Dip Stick

This will be a great exercise. I have often thought the auto dip 
stick was probably not accurate.

Mine is 26 3/4 inches from the red plastic handle to the full-hot 
line. I use that line as the full-cold line. Years ago when I 
believed the full hot line the trans would sometimes slip when cold 
and show air bubbles in the fluid.

Harold McElraft - 3354

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:35:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean ownership; an ego trip & funniest thing ever heard Cont'd...

>From my experience many of the young children haven't even seen Back
To The Future. Teenagers have heard of it but many of the younger ones
either don't remember it or haven't seen it. The adults do remember it
but vaguely and they seem to be pretty sure that JZD is still in jail
(and if he isn't he should be). Once the media trashes your reputation
it is impossible to to get it back. Does anyone remember Richard
Jewel? The FBI thought he was the bomber at the Olympics. They since
have cleared him but he will always have the stigma attached to
himself that he will have to explain. When I show the Delorean at car
shows and cruise nights I like to stand away from the car and listen
to the "expert" in a group start to tell (impress) his friends with
his "vast" car knowledge. It is useless to try to correct him in front
of the group, I usually try to get him alone and explain the actual
facts so he can go on to inform and impress with the correct facts. If
you are tactful they generally are happy to get the "right" facts so
they can go on to further impress people with their extensive
knowledge. Some "Know-it-Alls" won't want to be corrected, happy in
their ignorance and sure of their "facts".
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> For some reason people love to put someone up on a pedestal, and
then knock
> them off of it. I really don't understand this either. I can see
where some
> people in England may feel they were taken advantage of, rightly or
> but the sheer hatred that some people seem to have for the man or
the car


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:44:22 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Vapor System Problem

I was checking the filter on the carbon canister and I noticed the
plastic nipple where the vent hose connects was full of mud. I cleaned
it out and checked the hose. It too was blocked by mud. I have to
guess that some kind of insect must have made it's home in there and
plugged it up. On really hot days if I would leave the car in the sun,
like at a car show, I would notice a slight fuel smell. It had to be
because the vent hose was plugged up. I will blame the previous owner
who must have parked the car outside because since I have had the car
I have never left it outdoors (well except for those overnights with
the Delorean club). BTW the filter was clean, no surprise, with the
vent hose being plugged up! My advice is the next time you have the
vapor canister out, like when you are servicing the antennae, check
the filter and hose on the vapor system. The round center portion on
the bottom snaps off and the filter is right there. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:49:52 -0500
From: "Brian McCool" <>
Subject: Bob Dewey

Just came across this in one of the Vixen Owners Association newsletters. 

Robert Dewey, former General motors financial executive, CFO of the Delorean Motor Company, and co-founder of the Vixen Motor Company died May 20, 2003.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 02:49:34 -0400 EDT
From: "Michael Paine" <>
Subject: Funniest thing ever heard

Someone told me once that their "friends mother" used to have the 4 
door version but didn't like getting in and out.


vin 6067


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:52:05 -0700
From: "Roland Smith" <>
Subject: First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED

I have owned my DeLorean since early February and it has been in for repairs
and improvements almost the whole time.

Yesterday, Sunday, my wife and I set out early in it to go to Half Moon Bay
to join the Northern California DeLorean Motor Club at a Dream Machines car

Moving in a long line of cars to the entrance, there were delays where we
would be dead stopped and then have car length forward movement.  In order
to save the automatic transmission overheating , I would put the selector in
N when stopped and then D to move forward when the line moved.

When we got to the front and I was the next to move, I moved the selector to
D an felt a slight engagement effect as it slipped into gear and then
nothing.  It would not function in any gear and the engine would rev easily
as if it was in neutral.

What could have happened?

The car was brought back to Oakland on a flat bed tow truck.

Roland Smith
Oakland, California


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:27:10 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <>
Subject: automatic transmission governor computer research

>From the information gleaned from the archives (and google) I came up 
with some dated information that claimed a jeep/eagle (chrysler) part 
number was in fact the GC used on the D's 4141 renault transmission. 
(T1585496). I gave my local Chrysler dealership a jingle this morning 
and rattled off that part just to see what their database would spit 
out. Needless to say, whatever T1585496 is, it's listed as 
a "harness" and has a list of $537 and it's special order. Having 
some of the finest pull it yourself junkyards that are stock full of 
thousands of 1980's vehicles around here, I'd love to go on a 
scavenger hunt and see if I can track down some auto trans GC circuit 
boards to have around. (as well as repair my own). What I have not 
been able to glean, is what Chrysler/Jeep/Eagle/AMC/Renault vehicles 
used the T1585496 part. I'm also still not clear if the GC was used 
on different model transmissions other than the 4141 (which I suspect 
it was). Anyone out there know what other vehicles i should be on the 
lookout for that might contain the GC?



Message: 10
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:18:57 -0400
From: "Dave Stragand" <>
Subject: Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...

"TalksToGod" wrote:

>  Is your rear sway bar installation an aftermarket? or the stock one that
goes behind the engine?

It came with the car -- it's from Fred Lockett, who used to sell DeLorean
performance parts in the late 1980's.   It's an easy install, so I'll see
how well it affects the handling.



Message: 11
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:22:28 EDT
Subject: Re: A couple questions about Pigeon Forge

In a message dated 4/25/2004 5:41:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

I wish to register for the show, and am confused about a couple 
of things.  If we have a friend or a few friends coming to the show, 
are they supposed to pay $20 each just to attend? 
If you all register together it is just the first two that pay the $20 I 
waive the extra $20 per person after two.  And it is people in your party not 
just individual families. If they want the dinners they need to register.  No badge no food (they don't have DeLoreans).  

Aren't there people that just show up at the show just 
to look and walk around?  Do they have to register? 
If all you want to do is walk around then there is no charge at all for the 
show Sat. 

Also, for owners who attend the Saturday night banquet, can their cars stay inside the convention center building (where they were the whole day) while they are at the banquet?
Yes they can at this point that is the plan.
You can move the cars between the show and dinner if you want but once out 
you cannot come back in.



Message: 12
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:23:59 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Clutch Installation Questions

Could someone with a manual transmission on the ground measure the
distance from the bellhousing mating surface to the end of the input
shaft? I am beginning to wonder if my input shaft does not protrude
far enough into the pilot bearing, among other things.

Clutch splines on my input shaft are 2" long. 1 1/8" on the pilot
bearing end are shiny bare metal. Final 7/8" have what looks like a
black oxide coating. Appears to pre-date these failed clutch
installations (can be scraped off with a knife, but requires fair
effort). Is this not where the original clutch disc was riding (that's
where the rust was), and is this not too close to the end of the shaft? 

Have had two replacements fail at about that exact same point (right
before input shaft splines begin to emerge from the clutch disc on the
pilot bearing side). 

Latest clutch disc test fit fine on the input shaft, all the way to
the end of the splines. I used the input shaft itself as an alignment
tool (before bellhousing reinstalled on the transmission). Yet during
installation the disc bound again.

Is the female coupler between the input shaft and the primary shaft
supposed to be permanently attached to the input shaft? Mine is, and
is seated all the way to the end of the input shaft splines. The
primary shaft roll pin only moves it 1/8" or so closer to the
bellhousing than it would be with the two shafts abutting. Is this
proper placement of that coupler?

This was my installation method, if anyone notices any flaws:
- Car was raised on jack stands under the crossmember
- A bottle jack on top of a jack stand was used on the pulley end of
the engine to keep it in line with the vehicle (without weight of the
transmission it tips towards the rear)
- Clutch disc was located with an alignment tool (first failed
installation) or the input shaft itself (second failed installation)
- Pressure plate was loaded by tightening bolts until resistance felt,
then finishing with multiple turns in trangular pattern, alternating
triangles between bolts on either side of the locating pins
- Alignment was checked again by removing and re-inserting the tool or
- Transmission was raised horizontally on a floor jack (easier said
that done!)
- Transmission was tipped so long threaded rods could be inserted
through the bellhousing into the block mounting holes (release bearing
was positioned on the clutch fork at this time)
- Transmission was slid forward on the rods as far as it would go
using muscle power alone. I simply could not get it flush with the
block this way. I slid it back and forth several times (so obviously
it wasn't bound on the clutch disc yet), but 3/16" to 1/4" was as
close as I could get. Rotating the engine with a socket wrench at this
point turned the final drive, so the input shaft had at least started
into the clutch disc splines
- Rods were removed and replaced with actual mounting bolts
- Bolts were used to pull transmission the rest of the way to the
block, alternating them to keep it moving true. This is obviously
where the discs bound. My dual exhaust conversion allows me to see all
four sides of the bellhousing. I checked the gap between the engine
and bellhousing repeatedly. No bolt was turned more than 1 full
revolution before the others. No bolts put up significant resistance.
Yet the stupid clutch disc bound anyway.

I've rolled the input shaft on a flat surface like a pushrod, and it
sure looks straight to me.

The engine does not run as if the flywheel is warped.

Is is possible to install one of these 28 spline clutch discs like an
old fashioned Ford disc (10 spline?). Has anyone on the List done it
successfully with a floor jack and the car on jack stands? 
I won't be at Mid Atlantic BTW.

Bill Robertson


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:51:48 -0700
From: "Joe Thome" <>
Subject: RE: How to deal with smart alecks

Video Bob,

You are unequivocally right. There absolutely is no point in arguing
with people who make smart assed remarks about our car. They don't want
to be confused with facts. No matter what evidence you might have, they
won't accept it. They have to be jealous and feel threatened, or else
they wouldn't feel motivated to be so nasty.

Joe Thome



Message: 14
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:54:00 -0000
From: "Charlie G" <>
Subject: Delorean Game Money

  I was going thru old stuff in the closet games ect.. and we decided 
to play Parker Brothers "GO FOR IT! The game where you could have it 
all"  A game made around 1986.  Anyway once the monoply type money 
was passed around i saw what looks to be like JZD.(look in the photos)
Not only that on the board itself it has a what almost looks like a 
Delorean car.  The other money also looks like other popular figures 
from that I just wanted to share that with you. :) By the way 
the name on the 5,000 is Ted Buick.  Buick instead of



Message: 15
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:41:48 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: Power loss resolved?

Rich, I have always said the older coils and electrical system will die of
old age and need to be replaced. Resistance builds up in the wires over time
and renders them worthless. A new coil will add new pep and life to the
engine. This is not an uncommon problem as the coil get older the fire get
John Hervey

-----Original Message-----
From: cruznmd []
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: [DML] Power loss resolved?

Let it never be said that David T. doesn't know his stuff.

He was the only one who mentioned the ignition system and even though
I'd replaced -all- of that stuff recently I figured I'd better look.
I checked the spark and it was a weak yellow one. Not really knowing
what to replace first, I bought a new coil.

Now I'm up to full power, with no hesitation, stumble or bucking.
Starting was -instant- instead of the few cranks it used to take.

I've measured the ballast resistor and it's fine. I'm not sure why
the coil was dying. Has anyone ever had a coil die a slow death? My
experience is that they either work or they don't. I hope it's just
bad luck. I'll drive for a few days and make sure that this really
was the problem and not the fuel system.

Rich A.


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:14:06 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: won't stay running

You say you replaced "everything". I saw a car once where the fuel
distributer was replaced. It had a similar symptom. The mixture screw
was way off. Rob Grady twiddled it a little (without benifit of ANY
testing equipment) and got it to run reasonably well. That is what
years of experience can do. The point is that just because you
replaced parts, they do not all come "preadjusted". Like spark plugs,
some parts (fuel distributers included) must be set up for a
particular application. You should also check that the air sensor is
centered. In replacing parts on the fuel system be very careful that
you install the EXACT correct part. If you got them from one of the
Delorean venders you are safe but if you went to Bosch or Volvo or
somewhere else it is possible they gave you something "close". That
long part # at the end changes. It indicates different things but
suffice to say there are internal differences that can prevent it from
working on a Delorean. You could also have a large vacuum leak. There
MUST be a plug in the hole over the mixture screw. You could have a
leak on the hose to the brake booster (it runs on vacuum). Shut the 3
brass screws.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 

--- In, "painintheass7565" <advantics_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I haven't work on my baby in a few weeks because of my schedule, but 
> 5326 won't stay running without me giving it gas. I replaced the fuel 
> system from front to back when everything had been corrupted with bad 


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:58:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Power loss resolved?

What kind of coil did you replace it with?

Thank you,
Dave & 6530

Just say no to the couch potato!


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:23:03 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Advantages of 28 spline clutch discs?

What are the advantages of 28 little splines over 10 big ones? So far
they've only made my life worse.

Shopped my damaged clutch discs around town at lunch, and may have
convinced a mechanic with a lift and a proper transmission jack to
reconsider (transmission installation only -- all other ancillary work
would still be mine)...

He's totally perplexed by the 28 splines. Has never seen a clutch disc
with so many, and so small. Ford discs are indeed 10 big splines
(counted on his alignment tool). Not only are they virtually
impossible to screw up, but are plenty strong enough to translate 300
plus lbs of torque. What possible advantage could there be to the
French design?

He's not a big fan of installing transmissions at an angle, especially
tottering around on a floor jack. Had never heard of my threaded rods
however, and concedes that they might almost make the procedure
tolerable. Works excellently on a normal vehicle...

Now I know why Ford Motor Company is celebrating its 100th anniversary
while John DeLorean's pipe dream crashed and burned after a mere two
months of anything remotely resembling full production.

Bill Robertson


Message: 19
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:40 EDT
Subject: michelin pilot


I know the Pilot's have been brought up before, but after burning up a set of 
Yoko AVS's in 10K miles (the rears anyway, fronts are good), i am looking for 
the best tire out there.  I have read the back issues of the DML and find 
that most owners go for the XGT's, which look OK to me, but i was wondering if 
there was anything else decent.  A nearby owner has some dunlop's, but i hear 
they are noisy from other list members.  i am primarily concerned with safety, 
grip, noise, with treadwear and snow traction being relatively unimportant.

I also noticed that a LOT of XGT users on's comment list feel 
they are a waste of money (bad treadlife, poor hydroplane, not very grippy).  i 
also see the XGT's don't have much for water channels.  maybe on a wide tire 
like the 235 they are ok.

is the XGT the best out there?  i called PJ Grady up and that's what they 
install.  Rob was unavailable for comment.

Thanks - 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 20
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:22:51 -0000
From: "aaron_t_graham" <>
Subject: A little help in Indianapolis

I'm looking for other D owners in the Indianapolis area, in order to
diagnose a problem that I have.

I suspect there may be an issue with my idle speed ECU, and I would
like to try swapping with someone else for a couple of hours (or a
day) in order to see if the problem I'm having is really caused by the
ECU.  I know these things don't go out very often, but I've eliminated
almost every other possibility.  (John Hervey gave me a couple of
other ideas that I will try as well.)  I don't want to go buy one of
these things unless I know it's faulty.

If there are any DeLorean owners in the central Indiana area who
wouldn't mind swapping an idle-speed ECU for a short span, please
e-mail me off-list.

Thanks in advance!


Message: 21
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:52:37 -0500
From: Gus Schlachter <>
Subject: Re: Re: Funniest Things Heard

While pumping gas with the bonnet open:

"Dude, why are you adding gas to your windshield washer fluid"

Gus Schlachter
Austin, TX
VIN #4695


Message: 22
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:29:28 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <>
Subject: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))


I've agreed to purchase a DeLorean. My first one. In fact, I've never
even been in one before now. The car is in Sacramento, California.
I'll be driving it back to eastern Washington State, going right
through Portland. Are there any DeLorean owners in Sacramento or
Portland who wouldn't mind spending some time with me within the next
week or so? I'm not asking for an "inspection", per se, just some
chit-chat time and instruction on the art of DeLorean ownership. I
really just want to hang out with another D owner for an hour or so,
make a new friend, and learn a thing or two about these cars firsthand. ;)

Now, about the car! Vin SCEDT26T0BD005447, 1981, 5 speed. According to
the owner, he bought her brand new, so this is a one owner car. She
has 45k miles and was driven "regularly" up until 6 months ago. The
only problems I have been told of are:

- Small dent in bottom of rear fender that can't been seen unless
you're looking for it.

- Small crease toward rear of the car where a cable pressed against
it, also difficult to see unless you're looking.

- Small crack on the gauge cluster

The pictures look beautiful. The seats aren't torn, dash isn't
cracked, just looks like a really nice car. Some questions:

1. When I go to pick the car up, is there anything in particular I
should be looking for to make sure I'm not getting into major
problems? I fully plan on spending several thousand dollars more and a
lot of my time on this car immediately to upgrade to the Zilla
products and fix things that are bound to be broken or ready to break.
However, I'd love to know the details of what I should check that
might indicate problems.

2. Can someone tell me where the various VIN numbers/stickers are
located, as I'd like to verify these are all valid.

3. Any other pointers??

Thank you so much for your assistance. I can't wait to join the
Pacific Northwest DeLorean Club as an actual, DeLorean owning member!



Message: 23
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:50:25 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <>
Subject: Re: Removing Angle Drive Circular Spring

Ah, yes.  The dreaded snap ring.  I tried the same thing but mine 
turned out to be totally corroded to the nut and the AD.  I ended up 
using a hammer on the angle drive and it popped out of the nut after 
a good beating.  The snap ring was almost fused to the AD.  Funny how 
my angle drive started to work again after I used a hammer on it...


Does anyone know how to remove the circular spring from the old  
angle drive
 so you can retrieve the large nut?  The instructions say compress 
the spring
 with two small screwdrivers, but I don't find that possible.
 Thanks for your help!
 Bob Hlavacek


Message: 24
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:47:17 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED

My suggestion would be to drop the pan and make sure the cable is
moving the selector valve on the valve body. A fitting screws onto the
end and maybe it came loose or maybe the cable broke? If you are not
that lucky then measure the line pressure. If it is good than you blew
a clutch pack, probably C1. This will require a rebuild of the
transmission. If the line pressure is low then either the pump is shot
or the filter is plugged up. Check the fluid level first. A low fluid
level could also cause this. Another (remote) possability is a dead
torque converter.
David Teitelbaum

--- In, "Roland Smith" <roland_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I have owned my DeLorean since early February and it has been in for
> and improvements almost the whole time.
> Yesterday, Sunday, my wife and I set out early in it to go to Half
Moon Bay


Message: 25
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:39:01 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <>
Subject: Fuel system revisited

I have no idea why my car ran so well after putting the new ignition 
coil in yesterday, but that was not the cause of my problem. The car 
still starts far easier than it did before but now, again, it runs 

Symptoms are exactly the same: After 1/2 pedal, the tach jumps all 
over the dial, the car bucks and farts and nearly tosses me out of 
the seat. I lose acceleration until I back off of the pedal.

All I know for sure is this: -SOMETIMES- the car runs better when the 
engine is cool. It has psych'ed me out 4 times in the last few weeks, 
thinking that I'd found the problem. As soon as I get hung up in any 
kind of traffic where I get enough heat to run the cooling fans, the 
engine goes to hell until it sits overnight or gets very cool again.

Dave T. still knows his stuff, but the ignition didn't seem to be the 
problem. I have a nice white spark now.

This one's just going to have to wait until Saturday at the Social.

Rich A.


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