From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1986
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:48 PM

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Let's review: Loss of power (was fuel system values)
From: "cruznmd" <>

2. Re: First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED
From: "Roland Smith" <>

3. front main seal tool

4. Re: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))
From: "ryanpwright" <>

5. Re: michelin pilot
From: Dick Ryan <>

6. changing oil
From: "Marvin" <>

7. Upcoming Concours in Florida- WIN a Maserati!
From: "jeff512tr" <>

8. Looking for an evaporator or pipe
From: Travis Goodwin <>

9. Re: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))
From: "ryanpwright" <>

10. full throttle switch repair

11. Re: Advantages of 28 spline clutch discs?
From: "cruznmd" <>

12. Re: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))
From: "ryanpwright" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:20:53 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <>
Subject: Let's review: Loss of power (was fuel system values)

I've been getting lots of good advice regarding my problem and I
appreciate it so keep it coming.

Again, this morning for 3/4 of my drive to work the car ran very
well. Foot to the floor and all of that. It didn't start to buck
appreciably until the engine had been at operating temp for a while.

After the engine compartment is good and hot, the tach flickers
even when parked and idling. It's rock-steady after things cool
appreciably. (Like overnight)

Dave Stragand has rightly advocated the scientific method for sticky
problems so I am trying to take that route.

Problem: Loss of power under load, and skipping idle (both when
engine is hot) as noted at the tach, sometimes by ear. Occasional 
popping heard when pedal is floored after engine is hot.


I haven't totally ruled out the fuel system but I think I can rule
out clogs because a clog is a clog, hot or cold. Primary pressure
doesn't change hot or cold so I don't think the fuel pump is slowing
down when it warms up. Control pressure is in spec. The low primary 
pressure wouldn't account for better performance when cold. I've 
replaced my fuel filter and tank pick-up screen 3 times in the last 5 
months just for paranoia's sake. Every time I change 'em out, the 
contents are cleaner. Another owner has seen my tank and agrees that 
it's clean.


Martin, your distributor spring story is very interesting. I will
definitely keep it in mind. We know that electrical circuits hate
heat. Here are some theories, and I need ways to test them:

#1: The ballast resistor, or resistor relay may be faulty. The
resistor regulates voltage to the coil. Too much and the coil
overheats and is ruined. The relay cuts out 1/2 of the resistor
during cranking. If the relay is stuck, (only .5 ohms vs. 1 ohm) then
the coil could overheat during driving. I can measure this with my
ohm meter. I can also get the engine good and hot, then swap in a 
cold coil.

#2: Distributor pick-up coil: Could it be breaking down when it gets
hot? My experience with them is that they work or fail, not in
between. Anyone have experience with them causing something like this?
How could I measure its output when the engine is hot, and running?

#3: Sparkplug wires: Although new, they are not the type that most
owners buy. They are 7mm but maybe they are just a poor quality that
doesn't like heat. Could I be experiencing cross-fire/misfire? How can
I test for this? I tested all wires with a timing light. The light
flashes but that's a long way from saying that they fire correctly.

#4: Timing advance: The distributor is clean and the timing advances
but is it advancing enough? How can I tell? It shoots off the scale
so how do I measure it?

#5: Vacuum leaks: My fuel injection manual recommended checking for
leaks first. I've installed some silicone vac lines on the fuel evap
canister, the cold start valve and from the dizzy advance to the
solenoid. I found an A/C actuator hose for the center console vent
dangling free. The actuator is physically broken. Grrr...I plugged 
the line with a golf-tee for now. I checked the brake booster lines. 
I can not find any other vacuum leaks. I've mostly ruled this out 
because a leak is a leak, hot or cold.

#6: Faulty relay: The RPM relay is not clicking on and off when hot.
I removed the relay cover when everything was good and hot and 
observed the relay. It seems fine. Lambda relay: I hear no clicking 
but that doesn't prove anything. The dwell meter indicates the freq 
vavle is behaving properly. If the lambda ECU were intermittent due 
to a fault or a bad relay, the valve would be too. I've mostly ruled 
this out.

#7: Faulty ignition module? How much heat does this build up/get 
exposed to? Anyone have a way to test, or experience with this 

I know this much for sure:

When the engine is cool, the tach is perfect. Idle is steady. If I 
drive on the freeway, many times the car runs ok for as long as 20 
minutes before things start going wrong. Especially if the ambient 
air temp is cool. Once components in the engine compartment are 
exposed to engine heat for a while, that's when things degrade. It's 
very gradual at first, then it accelerates to the point where 
profanity comes into use. I'll park and idle. The engine -sounds- 
reasonably steady but the tach flickers, or jumps.

I've already replaced 99% of my fuel and ignition components. I want 
to -test- and find the faulty component, not just replace parts willy-
nilly until I stumble on the cause.

I will be bringing a fact-sheet with fuel pressure values and parts 
replaced to the Spring Social to aid in troubleshooting.

What say you?

Rich A.


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:01:00 -0700
From: "Roland Smith" <>
Subject: Re: First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED

Hello Rob:

Please provide a telephone number so I may call about the exchanger.

Best regards,
Roland Smith
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "PJ Grady" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] First Outing With My DeLorean-STRANDED

> Hi Roland,
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is typical of an internal
> failure in an automatic which would mean rebuild or replace the tranny. I
> hope I'm wrong but if not don't "shoot the messenger" as I'm just
> your question :). BTW if you are that concerned about overheating it you
> want to consider (after it's fixed) one of our aluminum A.T cooler heat
> exchangers which clamps around your cooler and drops your automatics
> operating temperature by about 20 degrees. In theory you double the life
> your trans with every 20 degree drop in operating temperature. Call us for
> details if you're interested as it's not on our website yet.
> Rob Grady
[moderator snip]


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:07:13 EDT
Subject: front main seal tool


the shop manual says you need a special tool to insert the front main 
crankshaft oil seal (the one with the pulley on it by the muffler).  is this really 
necessary, and if it is, where do i obtain this tool, how much is it, or does 
someone on the list have one i can borrow?  i would pay expenses.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:56:57 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <>
Subject: Re: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))

--- In, "funkstuf" <funkstuf_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Zillah, Washington here..
> Near Yakima, Washington
> Dale Funk
> Vin 4984 

Hi Dale,

I'm in the Tri-Cities - so there are a few of us here. That's great news! 



Message: 5
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: Re: michelin pilot


Coopers!!!!  Yes, I know, Coopers????

Mike Substelny has them on his car.  He recommended
them to me.  I put mine on well over 10,000 miles ago
and they still look like new.

Now, if you want HIGH PERFORMANCE these MAY not be the
tires for you.  They are S rated.  BUT, how many times
have you gone 112 mph for 90 minutes (the standard for
an S rating)?  Hell, Andy, how many times have you had
your D up to 112 mph for 2 minutes?

Good ride.  Not noisy.  I like them.

Just my 2.

Dick Ryan

PS  Not expensive either.

Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs 


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:22:14 -0400
From: "Marvin" <>
Subject: changing oil

My car has used synthetic oil for the last 10 years.
I'm due for an oil change and filter even though the oil still looks clean - 6 months. Can I switch to regular oil or should I continue with the synthetic?

# 17077 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:33:12 -0000
From: "jeff512tr" <>
Subject: Upcoming Concours in Florida- WIN a Maserati!

The upcoming exotic car concours being held the weekend of May 22-23 
in Celebration, Florida is shaping up to be a great event with 140+ 
exotic cars expected. There is a DeLorean class, and we will be using 
a Platinum-Gold-Silver award system (all cars 95+ points get a 
platinum award)
The event is being held to benefit Make-A-Wish. In addition to the 
show, we are holding a raffle for a brand new 2004 Maserati! (MSRP 
$104,000) There are only 2500 tickets, and all net proceeds benefit 
For more information, concours registration, or raffle tickets, 
please visit our website at
Please bring your car out for a fun event adjacent to Disney, and 
help us help these children with life threatening illnesses.
Thank you!
Jeff Ippoliti
DMC 20022


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:21:01 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <>
Subject: Looking for an evaporator or pipe

I recently removed my evaporator for repair/replacement. You can see it

Just below the black feces-like material you can see the end has broken.
Does anyone have any intel on this pipe? I've got a guy locally who will fix
it but need the pipe to do so. I would also take an old busted evaporator
with a good pipe if someone has one. 


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:55:57 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <>
Subject: Re: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))

Hi Murray,

I'm in the Tri-Cities. We'll have to get together and chat one of
these days.

You know what - I spoke with you several years ago via email. I was
looking for a DeLorean then and you kindly offered to let me come up
and look at yours, ask questions, etc. I was unable to procure the
necessary funds at that time to both buy and maintain a DeLorean and
so didn't want to needlessly waste your time, but time changed all of

I'll keep in touch.


--- In, "Murray Fisher" <murrayfw_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> HI Ryan,
>     Where in Eastern Washington State?   I am in South Eastern in Walla
> Walla.
>         Murray Fisher
>         Vin: 05962 Lic: DMC-XII


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:10:48 EDT
Subject: full throttle switch repair


i recently found that my full throttle switch was not switching anymore - 
that is, the switch would press in but wouldn't spring back.  i assumed it was 
broken, but faced with a $67 expense to replace it, i decided i might as well 
try to open it up and see what happened.  it turns out the switch is totally 
servicable after you pry up the bottom plate and i just needed a good cleaning 
with some electrical contact cleaner, WD40, and a final dousing in silicone 
spray.  now my switch is clean and moves freely!

just thought i would offer hope to anyone who has a possibly broken FT switch.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:35:13 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <>
Subject: Re: Advantages of 28 spline clutch discs?

My VIN is #5335 and I have a 10-spline. Bill's seen it.

My car sat and rotted for most of it's life so I'm betting it's 

Rich A.

--- In, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> 
> I would hazard a guess that using smaller (and therefore shallower) 
> splines makes the effective diameter (that traced by the base of 
> splines) of the shaft larger, and therefore stronger. Also, the 
> "strength" of each spline will be increased in proportion with the 
> number of splines.
> Really early DeLoreans, in the pre 1000 vin range have early 10-
> Renault clutches. I thought the newer ones were 21 spline. Could be 
> wrong though, not got one to hand, and never really bothered 
counting them!
> Martin
> content22207 wrote:
> >What are the advantages of 28 little splines over 10 big ones? So 
> >they've only made my life worse.
> >
> >Shopped my damaged clutch discs around town at lunch, and may have
> >convinced a mechanic with a lift and a proper transmission jack to
> >reconsider (transmission installation only -- all other ancillary 
> >would still be mine)...
> >
> >He's totally perplexed by the 28 splines. Has never seen a clutch 
> >with so many, and so small. 
> >  
> >


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:58:32 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <>
Subject: Re: Advice for new owner! (& seeking Sacramento/Portland club member(s))

--- In, Phil Priestley <phil_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I'm in Salem and would be happy to meet with you. Just a half hour 
> south of Portland
> Phil Priestley
> Alessandros 120

Hi Phil,

That may work out nicely - thank you! As soon as I know my schedule,
I'll send you some email.



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