From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2041
Date: Saturday, May 29, 2004 4:35 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Car Show Pigeon Forge Update
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

2. Re: DCS Hotel rooms
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: Oil drain valve
From: george caprita <dobedoc2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Get going problems
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: DCS Hotel rooms
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

6. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Water pump pully coming off on its own
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>

8. Re: Facia Reinforcement adhesive
From: "cliff_schmucker" <cliff_at_dml_deloreanproject.com>

9. Re: door locks, was: Stupid door vents
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

10. Fw: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

11. Transmission Shaft Couplers
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

12. Mercury Insurance
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>

13. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

14. Re: Steering Rack Xref? (Power Assist) (Bob Brandys)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

15. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

17. Incredible
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Broken Kneepads
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>

19. FLOPS! The Great Failures
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>

20. FLOPS! The Great Failures
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>

21. Re: steering rack
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

22. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_aol.com

23. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

24. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

25. Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:57:32 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Car Show Pigeon Forge Update

Just a heads up, I am bringing my "BTTF" car (it's not an exact replica,
more of an interpretation) and will be assembling it on site to show how you
can convert a car without modifying it in any way.

The best feature on the conversion... the smoking exhaust stacks.



-----Original Message-----

In a message dated 5/27/2004 6:44:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com writes:
Just a thought about the BTTF cars.  I am sure you are going to put them 
in a special area indoor.



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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:16:03 -0400
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DCS Hotel rooms

In a message dated 5/28/2004 11:32:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

> Now let's see . . . Murray (age 83) isn't going.  Les
> Huckins (80) isn't going. . . Could a youngster like
> me (71) become the oldest to drive to the show in his
> D???




you are getting close but I don't think it will be close enough.

Good luck 
it it always a possibility

Ken



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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: george caprita <dobedoc2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oil drain valve

Hi John, as per video bob "suck type"oil change kit, j.c. Whitney sells one.it's a hand held cheap plastic piece of junk that clips on to your 12 volt battery!!! BUT!! I've had one about 5 yrs. and it works great.used it on the rear end of my 90 van when water got in it [no drain plug] then used it to pump new grease in. catalog # is: 15ue5180y or on line: www.jcw.com....sku #zx155180y     George



BondAtomic_at_dml_aol.com wrote:Hey everyone-
I was just wondering if any vendor or anyone had a oil drain valve that would 
work in a DeLorean.



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:02:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Get going problems

I would make sure the frequency valve is buzzing on the right valve
cover and that there are no large vacuum leaks. Check over the mixture
screw on the fuel distributer and make sure that it is plugged closed.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Kramer" <jettaman95_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Dear List,
>   Recently I have been having the problem of getting the car mving 
> when I first start up. It idles just fine but when I want to start 
> moving the car coughs and spits. Pretty much making me wait until I 
> hit normal operating tempature. Then it drives fine.
>   I think it might be a vacuum leak or something. What tests can I 
> run to check what is going on or does anyone out there know what it 
> causing it?
> 
>    Thanks again,
>       Kramer
>       ~10610




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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:14:52 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: DCS Hotel rooms

Hmmm, - I gotta talk Gerry into driving his car there - that's the 
car I just finished up the SS frame conversion on. He's about 78. 
He's not on the internet, but a local club member. He drove to the 
WWII memorial ceremony this weekend, but not in the D.

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Now let's see . . . Murray (age 83) isn't going.  Les
> Huckins (80) isn't going. . . Could a youngster like
> me (71) become the oldest to drive to the show in his
> D???
> 
> Dick Ryan
> VIN 16867



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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:05:04 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

Here's the difference....
Sports cars look the way they do because most of the body and frame design 
is made with performance in mind. When you see the deep cut air intake down 
the side of the Ferrari Testarossa, they are not there for looks but to 
funnel air into the cooling system.
The Lamborghini Countach has deep air scoops in the back for the same 
reason.
Sports cars got their look from performance issues.
That being said, the people who liked these cars appreciated the performance 
that the
car delivered. The take off speed, handling, top speed, torque, etc...
If you are a true" driver", then you would understand.

I grew up with a motor-head father who was a professional kart racer.
I used to ride a go-kart that my dad built for me everyday after school.
This little sucker could 75MPH easy.
It also taught me to drive at an early age.
It gave me an idea of how to handle power and to use that power as a driving 
tool.
Fast acceleration and braking is the KEY to aggressive driving.
Cornering is controlled with your speed and braking, the Delorean based on 
proven Lotus
designs would have impressive against the Elan and the Esprit if it had the 
power.
The thing that makes the Esprit one of the best handling cars in the world 
is the lightweight
engine and the fact that it is mounted mid-placement in front of the rear 
wheels giving
a perfect center of gravity.

That being known, if you could give adequate power put chop the extra weight 
it would make
a huge difference. So even though the NORTHSTAR V8 has massive power, the 
extra weight
that exceeds the already-too-heavy PRV would deeply affect the handling and 
cornering.
You would find yourself doing more 180's in a sharp turn that you would 
prefer.
The extra weight through the rear end out, and if the extra power makes the 
wheels spin
then you have lost control.

This is solved by using the SHORTSTAR V6.
Weighing much less than the PRV by up to 80 pounds, this is almost a 200 
pound difference
compared to the NORTHSTAR V8. (according to what I have been told, I need to 
get the numbers).
Less weight will compensate greatly in performance.
The extra power will not do you any good if you can't control the car.

Now that we have an understanding of all this....
Sure, you can drive the Delorean around like a granny and many people do.
But I know that the Delorean is capable of so much more if it the power.
When people talk about the Delorean being underpowered, they mean as 
compared
to other SPORTS CARS, in which it comes in dead last in every category.
With an engine swap as that of what we mentioned you could get the 
performance
of other high end cars.

The Delorean is an exotic sports car, and for someone like myself who likes 
to drive
aggressively, these mods would be worth the investment.

I am not saying that the car should be driven a certain way right or 
wrong...
but for those of us who like performance, these are the things that need to 
be done.

- Videobob
VIN$5278







>From: "Hank" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: [DML] The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer
>
>I spoke with the Northstar-V8 conversion folks at the Memphis show, and 
>they said that the conversion added only about 90 pounds over the PRV (It 
>could have been even less, but that's the number I remember).   Certainly 
>not enough extra weight to negate the added HP.  Several people at the show 
>got a ride in it as well (I was not one of them), and they all said it was 
>incredible/awesome/fast, etc.
>
>And everyone has an opinion and here's mine:  I didn't by my Delorean to 
>"toast most any car off the line".  I'm perfectly happy with my peppy PRV - 
>I don't feel the need to compete with any other car or person on the road.
>
>And it's simply not a "black and white" or "purists versus modders" issue - 
>there are many shades of gray in there as well.  I'm no "purist", but I am 
>keeping my car stock so it maintains it's value if/when it comes time to 
>sell it.
>
> >If you want to use this car as a CAR then do what you need to.
>
>I do use my car as a CAR, and I happy the way it is, as I'm sure most DML 
>members are with theirs.  Please don't put us down just because you have a 
>different opinion.
>
>If you want to mod your car to suit your needs, that's fine and you'll have 
>no argument or judgment from me, but don't lump everyone else into the 
>velvet rope/purist camp just because we're not engine swappers.
>
>-Hank



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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:29:22 -0700
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>
Subject: Water pump pully coming off on its own

   I've aquired another car which I'm restoring, and the pully on the
water pump has creeped off of the shaft. It's now out to where it's over
half an inch off of the shaft. The belts won't stay on at such an
extreme angle. I've never heard of this happening. It didn't happen
quickly and the pully seems to be solidly on the shaft. I'm told it's a
2 year old Grady pump.

Ken



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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:06:22 -0000
From: "cliff_schmucker" <cliff_at_dml_deloreanproject.com>
Subject: Re: Facia Reinforcement adhesive

thanks for the info Dave - I did some more poking around on 3-M's web 
site and found the data sheet and the MSDS:

the part number is 08609 - I found it locally, but it took a number 
of phone calls...

looks like pretty nasty stuff, wearing gloves is good advice - also 
safety glasses (in addition to Phenyl Isocyanate, it contains 
Toluene - good idea to check out the MSDS)

another project before PF!

Cliff


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> The 3M Window-Weld Urethane. The right stuff will say "isocyanate" 
> somewhere on the label. The same active ingredient as POR15 and 
Krazy 
> Glue.
> 
> It's about $12 for a caulking gun tube-full, more than you'll ever 
> need but the only way I've ever seen it sold. Wear gloves, it won't 
> come off your hands for about a week.  



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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:27:44 -0400
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: door locks, was: Stupid door vents

Like a lot of cars, you can lock the door from the inside if you lift and
hold the door (release) handle first.  They're so close together, you can
even do it with one hand.  Of course, this is a bad habit to get into. 
I've locked myself out of the car a couple times. 

Jim
1537

On Thu, 27 May 2004 00:12:29 -0000 "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
writes:
> The buzzer switch on my car is disconnected. I hate that annoying 
> sound. Plus, it makes no sense. Why have a buzzer switch on a car 
> reminding you that you key is in the ignition, when you need the key 
> anyways to lock lock the doors? Maybe it's a bit different for those 
> with the two key systemm...
...


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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:13:36 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: Fw: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena

  Just rec'd this email.
  The Pantera / DeTomaso now joins the DeLorean marque as a no longer
produced dream.
  .
  Marv.
  # 17077
  marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: <dave_at_dml_panteracars.com>
  To: <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
  Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:59 PM
  Subject: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena


  > Hello DeTomaso enthusiast, There is bad news out today.
  >
  > Tom Tjaarda and Claudia Lodi have both emailed me and confirmed DeTomaso
Modena filed for liquidation yesterday. Here is Tom's email:
  >
  > DAVE;
  >
  > Just talked to Claudia Lodi and she confirmed that the company will be
put into liquidation. She was rather upset over this decision naturally but
said that they will keep the name and sell off the property etc. Perhaps in
the future try to downsize the operation. The 4x4 off-road vehicle remained
in the prototype phase and never obtained production statis.
  >
  > I offered what assistance might be possible in the future, because I
sincerely think that the name and marque has an interesting possibility to
continue with investors that understand the possibilities to create a new
model DeTomaso, at a contained cash outlay.
  >
  > Also, late last night Umberto Agnelli passed away. This is yet another
blow to the Fiat Company.
  >
  > DeTomaso will go ahead with their plans on the 5th of July and look
forward to seeing you.
  >
  > TOM
  >
  > Dear Dave,
  >
  > we have to confirm to you that De Tomaso factory has been put into
liquidation.
  >
  > We do not know at the moment what will happen in the future but every
doubts should be solved during the meeting by the Family.
  >
  > Best regards.
  >
  > Claudia
  >
  > De Tomaso Modena Spa  In Liquidazione
  > Viale Virgilio, 9
  > 41100  Modena
  > www.detomaso.it
  >
  >
  >
  >





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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:21:41 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Transmission Shaft Couplers

Hello List - As you might recall, there was a lengthy flurry of 
messages regarding failures of input and main transmission shafts.  I 
took a good look at the reports, and have decided to do something 
about what appears to be the primary failure mode in this area - the 
splined coupler that connects the input shaft to the main shaft.  I 
have focused in on two components; the coupler itself, and the roll 
pin that is used to fix the coupler to the main shaft.  In a recent 
local failure, the coupler stripped out, and the roll pin sheared.  
The sharp fragment of the pin caused irreparable damage to the 
splines on the main shaft, resulting in the expensive replacement of 
the main shaft.  The failed coupler is made from mild steel, possibly 
4130 alloy, with a heat treat of about 115,000 PSI ultimate tensile 
strength (very soft).  It is only partially splined internally 
(perhaps 50%).  The theory has been proposed that this is supposed to 
be a "fuse" of sorts to protect the main shaft from damage.  So far, 
not so good.  The "protection" has become the primary failure of the 
transmission, which is not acceptable.  I have commissioned custom 
couplers made from 4340 alloy at a heat treat of about 150,000 PSI 
ultimate tensile strength, and are fully splined for maximum 
strength.  They are nearly done, fit the shaft splines better than 
stock, and are beautiful!  I have also obtained a stronger variety of 
roll pin that is much more resistant to coming out prematurely, and 
also cracking.  For those of you who are contemplating  horsepower 
increases, or want a better load path into your transmission to avoid 
future expensive failures, I will have a limited number available by 
mid next week.  Please contact me off-list for further information at 
toby(at)delorean-parts.com.  We will have some available at PF, 
unless they are sold out immediately.  See y'all there!

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com
     




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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:37:51 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>
Subject: Mercury Insurance

Hi Group,

Does anyone out here happen to insure their D's with Mercury? If so, 
I'm looking for sample rates that people may have. I recently added 
my D to my policy (4th car, i'm over 25 with no tickets/accidents) 
They started me out with just the normal liability/uninsured 
motorist, etc and the premiums were not bad at all. Now I just got 
some quotes for full collision and comprehensive that are flatly 
ridiculous. Anyone out there care to compare?

-sean




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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:48:54 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Hank" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> And it's simply not a "black and white" or "purists versus modders"
issue - there are many shades of gray in there as well.  I'm no
"purist", but I am keeping my car stock so it maintains it's value
if/when it comes time to sell it. 
<SNIP>

You are dead-on with this statement, Hank. This isn't one camp of
people versus another. When it comes to wrenching and modding, there
has always been one statement that rings true; "Speed is just a
question of money. How fast can you go?" Well, for me it's not
question of how fast I want to go, but how far. It doesn't matter why
you decided to get a DeLorean. It doesn't even matter why you all
choose to keep it. None of that defines whom any of you are, nor
justifies why you either modify your car, or why you choose not to.
Your actions do not do not need justification to anyone but yourself.
Not because the car "needs to have enough power to match it's good
looks". YOU want it to go faster. And not modding a car doesn't have
to have a damn thing to do with preserving it "for the marquee", or to
"retain it's value/desireability when it comes time to sell it." It's
simply a case of you no changing anything because you're perfectly
happy with the way it is.

It's when you lie to yourselves by creating these self justifications
that you will begin to become unhappy with your car. If the peppyness
of the motor thru those long country drives makes you happy, then
don't swap a motor because you feel you have to beat every damn fool
you run across at the stoplight. And if ripping out that archaic
stereo to get a better driving experience is gonna make things even
more fufilling, the to hell with originality! Don't make a decision
because you think you're "indebted" to this car. Do whatever you chose
to because you feel, you know that it'll make you happier!

Me? I bought a DeLorean because I wanted a worry free car. And I got
it. I never have to worry about depriciation, I never have to worry
about milage, I never have to worry about trading it in, I never have
to worry about the painted finish, I never wanted to worry about
finding technical support, or parts for this car, and pretty much
every other trivial thing that you could imagine. And you know what? I
got exactly what I wanted. Except to show off how many miles I've
racked up, the odometer might as well not even be there.

But the biggest factor was patina. UV damaged leather, and faded vinyl
may not look as pretty as their NOS couterparts, but they can
certainly feel a whole lot better to the touch. And as beaten down as
it looked, as many cobwebs were scattered underneath, and as much tree
sap and bird mess was scattered across the top, mine was the "warmest"
car that I had ever sat in. And until I experienced this, I never knew
the true meaning of the term, "over-restored". A car that has had too
many parts replaced, and too much cleaner and preservant is as cold to
the touch, as the marble in a mausoleum. And no matter how good it
looks to the eye, and no matter how high the value is on paper, if the
car doesn't "feel" right to someone, they are not going to buy it.

Now as I said before, it's not a question for me of how fast I want to
go, but how far. I too have been thinking of an engine swap, with some
considerations including long-term reliability, and price. Price of
course being judged against DeLorean replacement parts. And, this is
out of nesessity, since I may be dealing with a damaged engine in this
case. But the thought of replacing a motor because it will become
"easier to work on" is honestly absurd. We have motors that are used
in Volvo cars, and still, some Volvo dealerships are unable to perform
work, and in some cases, refuse to. Why would things magicly be any
different with a motor that is now made by a major manufacturer?

I will leave everyone considering a engine swap with this thought.
Over the years here, the most sucessful engine swaps all have one
thing in common. It's not the engine types, it's not the materials
used, or anything of that sort. It is the fact that they were
completed by the owners themselves. If you yourself cannot take on the
task of working on the motor yourself once the swap is complete, then
you are comptemplating a useless conversion. And if you cannot do the
work yourself, then the process will be a futile one. Finding a
mechanic to see such a labor/fabrication intensive job all the way
thru is not going to be easy. Any one can quote prices, but they still
need to prove their experience to you.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 03:34:12 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Steering Rack Xref? (Power Assist) (Bob Brandys)

I have way more than enough room for a full size pump: mufflers now
hang below the rear frame extensions. There is absolutely nothing
between driver's side and the engine -- more than 12".

My problem is the rack. Need to find a proper width unit that will
either accept DeLo tie rods ends, or has ends of its own that will fit
into the DeLo knuckles (would be nice to mate to the U joint too).
Will spend all day in the junkyard with a tape measure if necessary. I
just thought someone may have already Xref'd a compatible unit.

Wonder if a center link could be retrofitted onto a DeLorean...

Bill Robertson
#5939


>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> I was at a car show last week,  This guy had added PS to his 58 Olds
88.  The power steering pump was a new aftermarket unit.  What was special 
> about it was its size..  The PS pump was only about 3 inches in
diameter and about 3 inches long!!!   Really tiny!!




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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 04:07:18 -0000
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

Bob,

After all the conversions to make it go faster, how much more will 
be half to be spent to beef up the transmission to handle it, then 
install a heavier duty brake system to stop it. Plus after all is 
done you could have bought a new Vette and still had your Delorean 
kept origonal. If you do the Frankenstein chop and rebuild you will 
just be reducing the value of your car, and then it will be a one 
off creation that is difficult to maintain. Many GM garages don't 
want to touch a custom monstrosity for not wanting to mess with it. 

Call me a purist from years with classic mustangs, but with the 
mustangs I always cursed and swore at the idiot precious owners who 
chopped and hacked them up in an effort to make something more out 
of it. Then it was just a waste of efforts & money to repair their 
ingenious work. I maintain a strict stock approach to the Delorean 
from my experiences with classic cars, as hacking them up makes them 
just a piece of junk later down the road. Keep it origonal, and go 
rice out a Honda or something else. Pick something that they made 
several hundred thousand of to chop apart. Hack job Deloreans are 
just a sad waste of what was once a great car, totally worthless of 
what it was, and not worth buying because of the expense to 
transform them back. Only reason this should be done is if the car 
was badly damaged or needed to be completely rebuilt. 

Not trying to rant, just hate to see a good example of a car 
destroyed because someone wanted to get creative. Just buy another 
car to play around with chops & swaps, and enjoy the Delorean for 
what it is, a great touring car that is comfortable and fun to 
drive. 

Joe O'Brien

2524 & 16634




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 04:09:33 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

I agree. Just because I don't feel the need to induce whiplash from 
every stoplight doesn't mean I'm a purist. I choose to substitute 
parts as necessary to make the car safer. It's not like we're all 
driving around with blue fan fail modules.

I do feel a certain urge to keep the car close to original for 
historical purposes. How many are left? I don't want the only 
original ones to be behind the ropes. It's fun to see the screwed up 
look on people's faces when they see the engine. It's also fun to see 
how much power you can get out of what you have. I always did love 
a "sleeper".

My co-worker bought an '03 Mustang (not a GT). Only 190 hp he told 
me. Houston's stage III will top that and not detract from the 
historical value. Plus our car is lighter I believe. Think it would 
beat him? I do.

It's always easier to pay an "expert" to just drop in an easy answer 
instead of doing the math and improving what you have. I prefer to 
twist that PRV like a lemon and make lemonade. Martin Gutkowski can 
attest that there are PRV's in Europe powerful enough to make a 
DeLorean destroy itself. If fact, he's just picked up a turbo-varient 
that I'm following with interest.

I really like the idea of the stage III engine. I just wish they'd 
sell a kit so I could do it myself.

Rich A.
#5335



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Hank" <henry_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> 
> <snip> And it's simply not a "black and white" or "purists versus 
modders" issue - there are many shades of gray in there as well.  I'm 
no "purist", but I am keeping my car stock so it maintains it's value 
if/when it comes time to sell it. 
<snip> If you want to mod your car to suit your needs, that's fine 
and you'll have no argument or judgment from me, but don't lump 
everyone else into the velvet rope/purist camp just because we're not 
engine swappers.
> 
> -Hank




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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 01:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Incredible

Ok, to say the least right now, I am jumping up and
down out of pure excitement.  It's 3:29 am as I write
this.  As some of you know, I have put 5 digit repairs
into 3299.  Everything from the tranny to the engine
has been rebuilt - here is a quick small list of
things I can remember I've done so far:

1. Replaced oil filter 
2. Air filter 
3. Fuel filter 
4. Auto tranny filter 
5. Rotor cap 
6. Rotor distributor 
7. Spark plugs 
8. Spark plug wires 
9. Coil wire 
10. Ignition wires 
11. Alternator belt 
12. A/C belt 
13. Valve covers 
14. Oxygen sensor 
15. Control pressure regulator 
16. Frequency valve w/ss line 
17. Spinners are off tires 
18. Tranny completely rebuilt - specifically 1st gear,
computer governor, torque converter, and vacuum
modulator 
19. Rewired the otterstat 
20. Fixed the brown starter wires 
21. Cleaned numerous grounds 
22. Rewired the wiring around the microswitch 
23. Cleaned microswitch 
24. Added the SS coolant bottle with new radiator cap 
25. Fixed the idle control motor 
26. Replaced the battery with new MATCHING battery
screws 
27. Fixed numerous, pathetic attempts at wiring in the
electrical system 
28. Added a self-bleeding kit to the cooling system 
29. Replaced the shifter cable 
30. Had numerous sets of keys made and tumblers
reset/cleaned 
31. New Alternator 
32. FanZilla 
33. New transmission mounts 
34. Fixed my turn signals 
35. NO MORE TIRE SPINNERS 
36. Replaced all the fuses 
37. New front rotors 
38. New brake pads on front rotors 
39. Added a "lifetime" air filter 
40. Replaced the air hose directly underneath the
coolant bottle 
41. Replaced some of the hosing on the coolant pipes 
42. New oil pressure sending unit 
43. Got my cargo net up in the storage area.
44. Replaced the fuel pump 
45. Installed a fuel baffle kit 
46. Replaced thermotime switch 
47. Replaced otterstat 
48. Rerouted the otterstat wiring away from the
catalytic converter (the wiring had begun to fuse);
the wires were also carefully cleaned and repaired 
49. Cleaned/tightened the ignition wiring (blue and
white ones, didn't touch the red one) 
50. Modified the CO adj. screw - got the car idling
VERY well
51. Took out and cleaned my fuel injectors
52. Replaced spark plug wires
53. Gave the intake manifold and the 
valves a thorough cleansing/paint job
54. Replaced all 10 coolant hoses
55. Replaced all heater hoses
56. Installed 13 stainless steel fuel lines
57. Installed new heater control valve
58. Replaced or inspecting all vacuum hoses
59. Installed a brand new water pump with all new
hoses, O-rings, water hoses, and clamps
60. Installed a new rack and pinion
61. New adapter cup
62. Lubricated the angle drive (make spedometer work
again)
63. New fuel pump cover
64. Installed new front wheel bearings
65. New fuel pump
66. Replaced all relays and circuit breakers -
completely clean every single relay connection.
67. Cleaned out, washed, rinsed, and vacuumed the
entire battery compartment
68. New ignition coil
69. New front (and about to be rear) tires
70. Flushed coolant and brake system
71. Fixed my weatherstripping in my trunk compartment
72. New fuel sending unit

So after all of this (up to now - still have new
radiator to install, repair fan motors, repair females
connections in electrical system, new rear tires,
brand new starter and starter solenoid, and new brake
master cylinder all before PF), I was to say the
least, a bit disgruntled when my car would crank to
life, then suddenly die.  For a month now, this
problem has plagued me.  Then this morning, I was
reading the back issues I have printed out, and I
found a little article from Sean Mullally back on
March 10, 1998 - and this is how it went:

"Ok, here's my problem. When I start my D after it has
been sitting for at least a day, it will start, but
will stall immediatly. On the second or third try, if
I give it alot of gas for a few seconds after starting
it will be ok. It will idle fine after that and
restart perfectly after being shut off. Has anyone had
simpilar symptoms, or know what the problem might be?"

Well, Bruce Benson followed up with the idea of it
being a bad thermotime switch, and how to jump it to
see if this was the case.  Now, considering I just
bought this back in 01/04 from a reputable vendor, I
felt this was far-fetched, but I figured "Why not? The
problems Sean described are absolutely identical to
mine, why not give it a try?"  I followed the
procedure, and around 3:20am I fired the car without
giving it any gas or anything.  It fired right up
first try - perfectly.  My four month old thermotime
switch is bad.  I find that - to say the least - a bit
hard to believe and a little discouraging. 
Nevertheless - to see my car fire right to life, first
try, no need for gas - just prefect fire and idle - oh
yes.

The point: DON'T neglect the backissues.  They are
quite the tomb of knowledge.  I have the defective
thermotime switch to prove it =P.

Jeremiah
#Completely-made-over-you'll-never-recognize-from-the-original-pictures-from-11/11/03 03299


	
		
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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:28:36 -0400
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: Broken Kneepads

Sunflower

Has anyone found a good adhesive to repair the kneepads when the mounting stud holes are broken. I've tried hotmelt and urethane epoxy and neither will stick to the material. Its very waxy. Even the spray on contact adhesive for the covering is starting to peel off.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:12:39 -0000
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: FLOPS! The Great Failures

I posted a picture of the ad in the photo section.

Dave & 6530

ps This weekend's airshow, featuring the Blue Angels and others will 
not be at Calverton but rather at Jones Beach on Long Island between 
11am and 3pm.




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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:10:21 -0000
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: FLOPS! The Great Failures

Attached to this coming week's Television listing booklet in the New 
York Times was a an ad for a station called TRIO and a program 
called, "FLOPS! The Great Failures"  Our DeLorean is pictured in the 
ad so I suppose there will be something about it on TV.  It says it 
is channel 102 in New York City at 8pm every night in June. On  
www.getTRIO.com it lists DeLorean as showing on Tuesday the 8th and 
the 29th at 8pm.  I don't get that channel... TIVO anyone?  Can 
someone send it to me?

Dave and 6530




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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:42:12 -0400
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: steering rack

Mark your quote ended insided the um, quotes... His comment was outside the
quotes... you were not misquoted.

>Mark Levy asked "What do you know about steering racks"--- not
>much, but learning!

regards,

Michael



Quoting Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>:

> When did I say that?  Please don't misquote me on a
> public forum where someone will be reading the
> archives 40 years from now and blame me for something
> I did not say!  :)
> 
> 
> My last message said:
> 
> "What do you know about the replacement rack?  Was it
> *NEW* or rebuilt?  If rebuilt, by who?"
> 
> 
> --- Marvin <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com> wrote:
> > Mark Levy asked "What do you know about steering
> > racks"--- not much, but learning!
> 
> 



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Message: 22
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:13:56 EDT
From: ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

Joe,

In my humble opinion, I believe you are being a bit too harsh.  Custom cars 
add personality.  A friend once said "repeat after me: it is MY car, and I will 
do whatever * I * want to it!"  To quote him further, "put in pink shag 
carpet if that's your thing."

Most DeLorean owners don't plan on buying the car, keeping her for a few 
years, and then selling her off.  Most (myself included) are planning on having 
this car until their dying day.  I don't care if by my modifying the car, it's 
value drops to 20 cents: if I like it, I enjoy driving it, and it's what I 
really, really want, then it's priceless to me.  And that's who that counts.

I had considered many, many custom DeLoreans (BLNAWAY, the Rotary DeLorean, 
just to name a few) before deciding on an original.  Not because I preferred 
the original over the custom, but because the price was right.  $25,000 for 
Jim's 20B is too steep for me right now.  But you can bet your boots on it, that 
if I had the money, I'd definitely go with that.

If you want to keep your car 100% original, then your best bet would be to 
not drive it in the first place.  At least, that's my take on it.  There are 
several consumable items the DeLorean used that are simply not available anymore, 
such as R-12, Goodyear NCTs, etc.  Now there's going to be a purist here 
who'll post a link to some dirty R-12, or one or two DeLorean vendors that are 
still selling NCTs.  That's all fine and dandy, but at some point, even the dirty 
R-12 will run out, and so will the tread on those NCTs.

Keeping this car 100% original simply isn't an option anymore, unless you 
want a garage queen.  Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that.  Earlier 
you had said that "If you do the Frankenstein chop and rebuild you will just be 
reducing the value of your car, and then it will be a one off creation that is 
difficult to maintain."  The value to who, though?  To the owner?  Or to 
other people?  If you're constantly concerning yourself with the value of your car 
to other people, then you will never, ever be fully satisfied with her; only 
an illusion that you think you are.

Much like R-12 and NCTs, DeLoreans are going to run out at some point.  All 
we can do is hope and pray that it doesn't happen any sooner than need be.  
Just to state for the record, I'm not a fan of all mods.  I look at Curtis' car, 
and the Screaming Yellow D, and I think to myself "Damn, man... that's just 
not my thing."  But if the car brings joy to the owner, then it's value has 
increased 10 fold.

At least, that's just my take on it.

Regards,
William F.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:32:35 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

First let me address "original".
As far as the Delorean assembly line goes, every car was a hand built 
custom.
Have you ever seen two EXACTLY alike?
There is no standard when it comes to these cars.
They are all pretty close, but they are basicly kit cars on an assembly line 
where
the builders made it up as they went along!
I mean, c'mon, have you ever owned a car with a wooden deck in the back?
Where the entire body is stapled together?
Everytime I see another Delorean I notice something different and say to 
myself,
"My car doesn't have this! Was this facotry?"
Every day was "Monster Garage" at the DMC plant.
They used what they had, and that is what I am doing.

Next, I would like to address the "original is more valuable" comment.
If you take a look at the cars out there for sale, the untouched original 
cars are the LEAST valuable.
If you find a Delorean with low miles, and every single thing on it is 
original you are looking at a nightmare. These cars were lemons right off 
the line.
The car's with the most value have had new leather put in, new fuel system, 
rebuilt brakes,
critical parts replaced by aftermarket such as alternators, etc.
Which is worth more, a $200 Craig tape deck or a Sony hard drive MP3 player 
that costs $1000.00?
Would you rather have the original lighted cluster or the new IndiGlow dash?
Would you rather have an 85MPH speedo or a 165MPH?
Would you like added Cruise Control?
What about new speakers, or added speakers?
Chromed factory rims?

The bottom line is, if you want an original car with NCT's on it and 
everything like it was on the showroom floor then polish it up and put some 
velvet ropes around it.
We will save a few of these cars to be put next to the Tucker in the car 
museum and all the
rest of us will actually "live the dream" instead of dreaming about the car 
in our garage.

If you look at the Deloreans for sale, the one's that bring the most money 
have had all the updates,
new interiors, new tires, new stereo systems, etc....
A stock D could be had for $15,000 or less all day long....but one that is 
tricked out such as
the one with the Northstar V8 would sell for more than DOUBLE.
So there is no truth behind the "original is better" logic, that is not if 
you plan to sell it or drive it.
This may not be true with all cars, but it is in the case of the Delorean.
I am sure that will change in 20 years or so, but if I wanted to put $20,000 
into a 20 year
investment I am sure I could do better than a Delorean!!!!!

As for the speed issue.
It is not about top speed, anything close to 100 is fine, the trick is how 
fast can you get there?
The key to aggressive driving is fast acceleration and braking.
The car only weighs less than 3000lbs, which is half what my Taurus Wagon 
weighs.
My Wagon stops on a dime.
The Delorean should have no trouble, however I think that someone needs to 
look into a
customized ABS system as on add on if that is possible.
The brakes on the Delorean work fine, it is controlled braking that is a 
problem.

What the car lacks is acceleration.
You can't get off the line, you can't zip around.... it is slow as you go 
captain.
The addition of a fuel injected Shortstar V6 would give instant response and 
would whisk the
car around with precision. This engine was designed for a car that weighs 
twice what the Delorean weighs, so the torque would be awesome.
....as for the transmission,
I too asked this question.
One option might be to use the original GM FWD trans, and mount the engine 
transverse.
The other is to use a Pantera transmission, or a Porshe.
However I prefer the automatic and my buddy TD suggested he could rebuild my 
AUTO
and beef it up a little with racing parts.
I don't know much about transmissions, but I know that this guy knows his 
stuff and people
ship their cars from around the world to this guy to have him hand build a 
custom turbo.
He knows a lot about cars so I trust him.

When I can afford it, and when I have the time I will do a complete 
modernization to my car.
It will be fast, reliable and user friendly.
I will get the luxury of a modern sports car with the looks of an old one.
It's a beautiful thing.

Driving a Delorean like an old lady is like having Pam Anderson over to do 
laundry.
C'mon man, take advantage of the situation!
Life is too short.

As for you "purists" out there, I say thank you.
Thanks for sacrificing modern convenience so that we will always have 
perfect examples of the
car as it was originally made.
This way in the future I may take my kids to a museum and show them what the 
car looked
like back when the manufactures pumped them out with little research and 
development,
and before they had a chance to fix all their mistakes, and before they had 
the chance to do
what most of us do.

Drive.

- Videobob
VIN#5278





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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:30:19 -0500
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

Ok Video Bob the Delorean seems to be a car that is too slow and under 
powered for you so why didn't you just buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini 
instead, this way you wouldn't need to make any changes?

By doing the engine changes on the Delorean will not make it a 
Delorean, it will sort of make it a frankenstein instead that will 
lower the resale value of the car. Want proof look on EBay right now 
there is a Delorean with a PRV in it but not a Delorean PRV and the 
seller is having a hard time selling it ( item # 2480502733 ). There is 
also a Delorean with a Rotary engine it it that has been for sale for 
quite a long time now.

Yeah sure i would like more power but i also know once the car is 
modified the value drops unless you return it back to stock.

The Delorean is a Delorean and nothing more.

You seem to be very quick at insulting the Delorean community by 
calling most of us Grannies by the way we are driving around our cars. 
I am asking is for you to quit with your insults and think about what 
and who you are typing about.

Mark V



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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:41:07 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The PRV-6 to Northstar Transfer

Here is the thing that I have been struggling with....
By the time you spend the money on a PRV to stretch it to it's limits to get 
200HP out of it,
you could put in a modern engine that would kick it's ass stock.
DMCH's engine upgrade has been on my mind and I have deeply considered it.
I need to go drive Steves black car and see for myself.
I don't need something that will melt the rubber off the rims,
but the other day a Ford F150 truck whipped my ass so bad I wanted to cry.
I had no chance, and this was a friggin pick up truck!
That's just BS man.
I am not a fast and furious speed demon or anything, but this is the most
wimpy ass car I have ever owned.
My Ford Taurus, with a 3.0 V6 will whip it.

I drive this sucker every day in Dallas traffic, the key to good city 
driving is being
able to zip in and out between the slow zombie drivers.
I am sick of being bested by every Honda Civic out there.
Something has got to be done.
- VB




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