From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2044
Date: Monday, May 31, 2004 6:40 PM

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. my car wants me to hate it
From: "supermattthehero" <>

2. Re: Fw: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

3. angle drive problem solved
From: "Hank" <>

4. Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

5. RE: Re: Hood emblem what year?
From: Marc Levy <>

6. Re: new battery
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

7. Re: TA shield mounting brackets
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

8. Re: Diagnosing my delorean
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

9. Re: TA shield mounting brackets

10. Re: Fw: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena
From: "istewart88" <>

11. TV alert
From: Andrew <>

12. A/C Question
From: "Dave Stragand" <>

13. Wiring a CD Changer (was: amber turn signals)
From: "lakelanier20" <>

14. Re: Delorean movie sighting.
From: "delorean66" <>

15. RE: Water pump pulley came off on its own
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>

16. Re: Hood emblem what year?
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <>

17. Re: TA shield mounting brackets
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <>

18. Re: TV alert
From: Andrew <>

19. DeLorean Car Show Stats Update Pigeon Forge

20. Re: new battery
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <>

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:51:20 -0000
From: "supermattthehero" <>
Subject: my car wants me to hate it

What was going to be just replacing the oxygen sensor has turned 
into so much more.  After using heat, wd40, and a breaker bar to 
remove the old one, I was left with the old oxygen sensor's threads 
still in the crossover pipe.  Great.  
So I thought, hey, I'll remove some stuff to get more clearance and 
go from there.  I removed my driver-side engine mount and the part 
that the stud goes through just disintegrated right in my hands.  
I'm not sure how that is put together exactly.  The actual mount 
bracket isn't damaged, but the part that the stud goes through broke 
in half, and then continued to crumble the more that I touched it.  
Was this aluminum at some point?  Right now it looks like a big 
piece of crumb pie.
I also found some more frame rust underneath the engine mount, so 
chances are I won't be driving my car for awhile unless I develop a 
death wish.

What can I do about the engine mount issue?  Do I need a new block???

a very sad Matt


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:37:43 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Fw: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena

Mangusta is the model name,  which does indeed mean mongoose. Named so
because the mongoose is the natural predator to the cobra (ie. the
Mangusta was a Shelby Cobra killer). And yes, this was a car in Kill
Bill Vol.2. DeTomaso has a short history of the car on their website,
along with a couple of pics, and the website for the movie also has a
couple of pics as well, with a decent front shot of the car.

The DeLorean, Mangusta, and Pantera are all products of Giugiaro's
design studio, hence why they all have a tendancy to look so simular.
Cramped cars from what I've read however, and from what I've seen. No
Room for a dead pedal when the wheel wells protrude into the foot
wells. Don't know if anyone else here can confirm thier lack of
comfort, but their parts prices are astronomical.

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, "pdmytrewycz" <pauld_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> --- In, "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> >   Just rec'd this email.
> >   The Pantera / DeTomaso now joins the DeLorean marque as a no
> > produced dream.
> That is a shame. The Pantera/DeTomaso were some great lookin' cars.
> They're sure to go up in value.
> In a slightly related note. In the movie Kill Bill vol 2, Bill
> by David Carradine) drives a dark grey Pantera/DeTomaso (someone
> it was a "Mongoose"?). Anyway, when I saw the movie with my
> girlfriend, she got all excited and leaned over to me and asked,
> "isn't that a Delorean?"
> You only really get to see the back of the car, but I admit it does
> vaguely resemble a DMC-12 rear-end.
> Paul D.


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:22:52 -0400
From: "Hank" <>
Subject: angle drive problem solved

Today I went out to extract and diagnose my angle drive problem I posted about a few weeks ago.   Thanks to Dave S's detailed instructions, I jacked up the front of the car, removed the left wheel - and guess what - no speedo dust cap!  The speedo cable end was just hanging out there dangling in the wind (so to speak).  Now I know it's pretty hard for the dust caps to just disappear, then I thought - Oh, I had a front end alignment two months ago.  Sure enough, they swapped the front two wheels, and the dust cap was on the right side wheel.  I re-installed the dust cap in its proper location, swapped the wheels back to their original location, and all is working well now.

As an aside, the alignment shop I went to got rave reviews from everyone I spoke with. They do the alignments for the township police fleet.  Everyone says they know what they're doing - and all they do is alignments.  But here's the kicker - they do it without computers or electronics - they just use levels and angle equipment, experience, etc.   When I learned this, it worried me, but I went on everyone elses' recommendation.  I supposed they swapped the front wheels as part of the alignment.  I won't be going back.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:23:27 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo

Hi All

These crop up on ebay UK regularly, but this one includes a nice engine 
shot. See the car that parallelled the DeLorean in many ways, and the 
same series engine I've got for my D (which has different intake 
pipework but is otherwise exactly the same)



Message: 5
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:00:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: RE: Re: Hood emblem what year?

"Should Have"?  

That site just tells you what your car should have to
compete in a DMCH sponsored Concours competition. 
Although the site would lead one to believe that they
are the authority on the subject, they are only the
authority on their own events.

It may be a good source of research information, but
IMHO should not be considered 100% Accurate.

For Example:

Section 5, Part 3 deals with Exhaust pipes.  (I am not
going to cut and paste it here due to possible
copyright violations).  It essentially says 1981 cars
have straight cut exhaust pipes and 1982 and 1983 cars
have flared tips..   Yet, I have yet to see a 17000
VIN car with the flared tips!  (If you have one,
please let me know!).

Anyway, my point is when you have a hand built car
with so many "running changes" I think it is
impossible (and unfair) to say what is "Correct".

As long as you don't plan on competing in a
"Millennium Concours", you like the emblem on the hood
leave it.. If you don't, remove it.  :)

--- Scott Mueller <> wrote:
> If you want to find out what your car should have,
> just check the
> site for the official Concours handbook.

Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. 


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:56:00 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: new battery

I like the ACDelco Model 78-7yr battery. It is a professional grade 
battery that is excellent IMHO - I got mine at NAPA for about $110. 
BTW, a master switch for the battery is a sure way of keeping the 
battery fresh for the next start if you let it set more than a few 
days. I'm on my second battery in nine years.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> List,
> Today i had my charging system tested (volt meter was doing odd 
things) and 
> they said my battery tested bad.  what i want to know now is what 
> should i get?  in the archives it says that the optima is a good 
battery, but do i 
> really need it?  is it worth the extra money?
> I am also having trouble figuring out which battery is the right 
>  is it just called a ' 75 ' ?
> My car is driven mostly on weekends so often times it sits maybe 5 
or 6 days 
> between starting.  i have all of my electical issues sorted out so 
the battery 
> is never dead even after a couple weeks of non-running.  my last 
battery was 
> an Exide and it is about three years old, however it was subjected 
to frequent 
> total discharge in the first two years of its life as i sorted 
things out and 
> fixed some wiring.  i am sure that is what caused its early demise.
> what do you recommend out there?
> Andy


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 02:08:29 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: TA shield mounting brackets

Very common. The screws were glued in and they spin when the nut gets
a little rusty. Remove the carpet in the "vault" behind the driver's
seat and try to grab them with a vise grip or a side cutter. If you
have to just break them off. The other side is under the battery. Rob
Grady sells a neat piece that has the 3 studs connected with a metal
strip so this never happens again.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 

--- In, "Adam 16683" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> How do I get to the trailing arm shield mounting brackets? One of the 
> studs on the left side is free spinning, and another seems like its 
> on its way. 
> thanks!
> adam


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 02:14:39 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: Diagnosing my delorean

You should not have ANY fuel leaks. Don't run the motor with fuel
leaks, it is too dangerous. Turn the key on and off several times to
get the fuel pump pressure up and find and fix all the leaks. If you
hear funny noises from the fuel distributer make sure all the hoses
are connected correctly. Maybe the noise you hear is the valve on the
right side (passenger side) valve cover? If it is, that's normal, it
is the frequency valve and it should buzz loudly. My guess why it
isn't running would be to check for spark. If you have fuel leaks you
are getting fuel, but are you getting spark?
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "jmlaux83" <jmlaux83_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Alright, trying my best to start my car. I fixed the problem with the 
> fuel filter leak. Now I have a fuel leak coming out of my right side 
> exaust manifold (left side of car). It tells me that I am not getting 
> any spark, but the plugs are new. Tommarow I am going to pull the 
> plugs and try the old coil see if that is the problem. It ran for 
> only a second before it stuttered and quit. Also I think either my 
> fuel distributor or mixture control unit is making this high pitch 
> squeel when you turn on the ignition key to its second position but 
> not every time. If anyone has any suggestions I'll be glad to hear 
> them.
> Thanks a lot,
> Jason
> 2256


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:52:50 EDT
Subject: Re: TA shield mounting brackets

In a message dated 5/30/04 3:36:02 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

<< How do I get to the trailing arm shield mounting brackets? One of the 
 studs on the left side is free spinning, and another seems like its 
 on its way. 
 adam >>


one set is under the battery and the other set is under the carpet in the 
cubby box behind the driver's seat.  

just drill them out or cut the studs off with a dremel, remove the old rusty 
pieces, and install Grady's stainless TA bracket kit.  i put mine in three 
years ago and it was money well spent.



Message: 10
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 02:58:24 -0000
From: "istewart88" <>
Subject: Re: Fw: End of an era - DeTomaso Modena

--- In, "pdmytrewycz" <pauld_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> --- In, "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> >   Just rec'd this email.
> >   The Pantera / DeTomaso now joins the DeLorean marque as a no longer
> > produced dream.
> That is a shame. The Pantera/DeTomaso were some great lookin' cars.
> They're sure to go up in value.
> In a slightly related note. In the movie Kill Bill vol 2, Bill (played
> by David Carradine) drives a dark grey Pantera/DeTomaso (someone said
> it was a "Mongoose"?). Anyway, when I saw the movie with my
> girlfriend, she got all excited and leaned over to me and asked,
> "isn't that a Delorean?"
> You only really get to see the back of the car, but I admit it does
> vaguely resemble a DMC-12 rear-end.
> Paul D.

That would be a DeTomaso Mangusta. The car that was in the movie was for sale in the 
NorCal Collector Car Trader a few months back for a pretty steep price. Another design 
similarity is that the Mangusta has gullwing engine covers in the rear that make the 
DeLorean similarity even more pronounced when open.


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:15:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <>
Subject: TV alert

TiVo reports that Trio will be showing a documentary called "Delorean" on 
6/8 at 19:00 (central).  The original air date is 6/8 as well, so this may 
actually be a new program.  The synpopsis is "Quest to build a dream car."

Looks like it's in their "Flops" series in June.  There's more information 
on their website at .

Anyone know anything else about this program?



Message: 12
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 23:15:53 -0400
From: "Dave Stragand" <>
Subject: A/C Question

Hi All,
I hooked up the A/C on Project Vixen today, evacuated it, and charged it up.
I evac'ed the system for about 90 minutes, at 28" Hg, then charged it up.
The low side pressure is at 32, the high side at about 170-175, and the temp
today was about 75 F.
The system is blowing pretty cold (though not sure how cold, as I cannot
find my A/C thermometer anywhere) but the compressor isn't cycling -- it
just runs continuously.
Following the checklist in the workshop manual, it says to check for missing
expansion tube (it's in there, and it's new), or that the system is
overcharged.  Considering it only would take in about 28 ounces of R12, and
the service bulletin calls for 36 oz, I don't think it's overcharged.
(I do have one known small leak, on the Schrader valve on the low side hose
at the compressor.  I'm going to see if I can track down that nifty little
tool that allows you to change it without evacuating the A/C.  For now, I
have a plastic o-ringed sealing plug on it to help slow/stop the leak.)
I did have a problem where the back of the high-pressure cutoff switch came
off while I was mounting the high side hose, but it snapped back on without
a problem.  The compressor, accumulator, expansion tube and low-pressure
switch are all new.  Does anyone have any other suggestions as to why the
compressor will not shut off?  
-Dave Stragand
VIN #05927

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 02:42:04 -0000
From: "lakelanier20" <>
Subject: Wiring a CD Changer (was: amber turn signals)

Thanks for the responses on coloring the amber in the rear turn 
signals.  I'll let everyone know what I end up doing and how it
turns out. 
My next question is how to hook up an FM modulated CD changer.  
I searched the archives right down to message # 1, and found only 
bits and pieces of information.  
The plan is to put the changer in the locking compartment behind the 
driver's seat.  I read the best source of grounding here is the
of the lambda unit near the ECU. They also suggested wiring the power 
either to the door lock module or straight to the battery with an in-
line-fuse in both cases.  My central locking is de-activated right 
now, can anyone shed some light on exactly how to hook up the power?  
There are 3 power cables coming out of the CD changer, 1 to a 
continuous power source, 1 to a power source that comes on with the 
ignition, and 1 ground.  
As for the audio hookup, a couple of posts said that things are 
easier if you have the power antenna in the rear-driver quarter-panel 
of the car, and that this wire can be spliced into below the cargo 
deck.  While this bit of info does help, I don't really know
where to begin.  
Can anyone who has installed an FM-Modulated CD changer give me a 
walk-through?   Sorry for being so ignorant, I am picking up my car 
on Wednesday so I haven't yet had a chance to thoroughly examine 
the specifics of the car.  I'm trying to get all this done in the 
next couple of weeks so I can bring the car to Pigeon Forge.  I have 
a few other goodies in store as well, but I think I know how to do 

Thanks for all the help,


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 06:20:26 -0000
From: "delorean66" <>
Subject: Re: Delorean movie sighting.

Yeah, check out, go to "D's on TV" 
then "Movies" There's a video clip of it on there. :-D

Thrash till 'Deth!

--- In, "Jeff Chabotte" <Jeff_at_dml_8...> wrote:
> Don't know if this has been mentioned or not in the past (I tried
> searching the archive).
> Beverly Hills Cop.
> When Axle Foley (Eddie Murphy)is going to Victor Maitlin's mansion 
> is tailed by the two replacement detectives. When they are all 
> Axle's car and the Mercedes leaves the mansion, you can see the 
> (with headlight covers on) in the left of the frame, across the 
> from the mansion.
> -Jeff Chabotte
> Norwich, CT


Message: 15
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:58:18 -0700
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>
Subject: RE: Water pump pulley came off on its own

   I take it from the ZERO replies I got that no one has ever heard of a
water pully coming off on it's own. Today I gave the pulley the last
needed pull to remove it from the shaft. It was so far off it was
wobbling. The pulley has no key and is made from machined aluminum. The
pump has a quarter circle key in the shaft.  Could I buy a bolt-on
pulley and avoid the hassle of pulling the pump? I'd have to replace the
pump and pulley because I wouldn't trust just putting the pulley back
on. This is one job I'd like to avoid. I've already got a ton of things
to fix as it is.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Montgomery, Ken 
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:29 AM
> To:
> Subject: [DML] Water pump pulley coming off on its own
>    I've acquired another car which I'm restoring, and the pulley on
> water pump has creeped off of the shaft. It's now out to 
> where it's over
> half an inch off of the shaft. The belts won't stay on at such an
> extreme angle. I've never heard of this happening. It didn't happen
> quickly and the pulley seems to be solidly on the shaft. I'm 
> told it's a
> 2 year old Grady pump.
> Ken


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 06:35:00 -0000
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <>
Subject: Re: Hood emblem what year?

As best as memory serves:

Early 81, lined hood with gas cap.
Middle 81, Lined hood, no gas flap

81's with flat hoods, no lines, or gas flap have most likely have 
hood damage and replaced with a later style hood. Emblem optional.

82s & 83s have flat hood with Delorean emblem in bottom left corner.

And some people just who liked the emblem stuck it variously on 
their cars. So I would look at the vin# to see what year it actually 
is. Or just ask them if you can.

Hopefully I didn't leave anything out, but I don't have any real 
knowledge on the RHD Deloreans and their emblem or hood year info.
Maybe Martin in the UK knows the RHD hood answers.


2524 & 16634


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 06:38:24 -0000
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <>
Subject: Re: TA shield mounting brackets

Have a friend or partner hold the mounting inside the storage 
compartment with a wrench/pliers or anything to make it stop moving. 
After removal I believe PJ Grady makes a nice replacement version of 
that mounting area to make removal much easier in the future.


2524 & 16634


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <>
Subject: Re: TV alert

Replying to myself...

I see that the aforementioned movie is actually the Hegedus/Pennebaker 
documentary from 1981 which has been discussed on the list before.



Message: 19
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:43:36 EDT
Subject: DeLorean Car Show Stats Update Pigeon Forge

This will be the biggest DeLorean Car Show EVER

For those of you that like stats here are a few updates and I was surprised 
at the change in direction as far as the numbers.

We have 36 States represented by far a NEW RECORD for the show. PLUS OUTSIDE 


The State of Ohio (partially due to my large party) Has the most attendees 
followed by Illinois (and here is the big surprise) Florida and Pennsylvania.  
The last minute registrations seemed to come from there.
Virginia rounds out the top 5 followed by California.

This is totally geographically different than the previous shows. 

There is again almost a 50-50 split with new and returning enthusiast

The split is 49% new and 51% returning.

The hotel rooms now number 206 with a majority (don't have the split at hand) 
being the lower cost rooms (opposite Memphis)

We have 78 cars registered for the show that is well above last time (64) 
(note not all the cars register)

WE have selected a place for the next show and it will be revealed on Friday 

The total number of people attending is still just shy of Memphis but I exect 
us to beat that so we should see about 450 people over the three days with 
367 being the highest so far for any one event. (that already is a record)

The raffle car is now at 205 so we are easily past the 200 mark and looking 
towards the 250 mark.

The computer registration will close on June 15th so get your registrations 

There are still 14 parties that have rooms that have not event registered. 
(This represents about 35 people not registered yet)

All the expected vendors but 2 have registered and this year it looks like we 
will have about 40 tables for vendors this year FAR surpassing last show.

We have a number of judging catagories for you to enter.

Judging will be done at registration to free you up during the day.

As far as lectures/Guests go we have the following

Claudia Wells (Jenifer Parker BTTF
Bob Gale (Writer director BTTF)
Stephen Clark (BTTF)
BTTF cars
Don Steiger (DeLorean Motor Center)
Rob Grady PJ Grady
Plus more vendors
Jim Prentice (Ireland (former factory supervisor)
Randal Brown (3-M)
Curtis (tentative at this point he's looking for a trailer)
Fred Delis (Legend Turbo)
and a few more still in the works.

There will be two panaramic photographs from Memphis for you to sign above 
your picture if you were there in Memphis one will be auctioned off.

sold)  Please be there for the photo.

There will be only one raffle and that will be Saturday.

There will be a silent auction for about 8 items on Friday night with the 
auction ending at 9:00 PM

There are two or three groups of entertainers that will appear at the show.
Joe Charter and the Nork plus a country surpise is still in the works

There is an open bar and you will be given three drink tickets for each 
evening you register.
Soda products are no limit and no ticket plus the beverages served with the 
dinner do not require a ticket.  

You may BYOB for after hours in your room.

This is a dry county 


The area will be patrolled so do not take an alchoholic beverage outside.

Well that is about it 
There are a few car surprises that will be at the show so you will need to 
come to see them.

Have fun and see you in Pigeon Forge.

DeLorean Car Show Inc
DeLorean Car Show Magazine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 20
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 06:25:51 -0000
From: "joeyoseppijoe" <>
Subject: Re: new battery

In both of my cars I use a Sears Diehard Gold. I have a battery cut-
off switch in the one I drive occasionally, and the other one I 
leave disonnected. Have had no problems for over three years now. I 
personally have never noticed a difference in batteries as far as 
Optima VS Diehard. Have used them both. But I always use Diehard 
because of the warranty and easy return to a Sears store if one 
fails within warranty. 
I used to buy cheapo batteries for my "beater" cars, but after 
dealing with the morons & Wal-Mart & Auto-Zone, I will never buy 
another battery from them again. Price was good, but they seemed to 
all die because of a dead cell within 12-14 months, and even though 
it was dated on the battery, no warranty exchange was allowed unless 
you had the ORIGONAL receipt. Just buy a quality battery from a 
reputable store and you shouldn't have a problem.


2524 & 16634


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