From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2063
Date: Saturday, June 12, 2004 4:41 PM

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Taillight Tinting
From: "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

2. insurance questions
From: "sebastain_valmont" <orentha_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: Thermotime Switch Question
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

4. Re: Thermotime Switch Question
From: casey barlow <dmc1288mph_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Travel Tip
From: steve trimble <stevetrimble52_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: Need a room at Smokey Shadows
From: "dracula2893" <franklinairshow_at_dml_aol.com>

7. Re: insurance questions
From: "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

8. RE: Idle speed searching
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

9. RE: AC correct operation?
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

10. RE: July 4th Car Show Pasadena Texas Convention Center on Sunday
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

11. RE: Re: Relay/Fuse Upgrade
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

12. Re: Re: Need a room at Smokey Shadows
From: "Michael Paine" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

13. Re: Re: Thermotime Switch Question
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. XM radio
From: "Hank" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

15. Re: insurance questions
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

16. Re: AC correct operation?
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:57:29 -0000
From: "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Taillight Tinting

If a thin layer of dark, UV-blocking tint is applied to the tail 
lenses, wouldn't that help to reduce the fading that occurs over 
time?  I remember some cars at the Memphis show had something like 
this, but I didn't care enough at the time to ask about it.

Matt
#1604





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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:32:26 -0000
From: "sebastain_valmont" <orentha_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: insurance questions

Hi.
I know this has been covered before, but I searched and nothing came 
up when I searched for "insurance"

I just got my Hagerty renewal in the mail today.
And my premium used to be $340 for the year, full coverage, $18K 
agreed coverage.

Now my premium has been raised to $649.
I called them to complain about it, but it's because I've under 26 
years old, and "to provide the best possible coverage to the broadest 
possible group of collectors" blah blah blah, they have to raise the 
premiums.
I've been with them 5 years, and have submitted no claims or 
anything, and I get screwed for it...

So can some of you guys recommend any other classic insurers for me.
There is no way I'm going to pay Hagerty double my old premium...
That's bs.

Thanks for the input




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:18:30 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Thermotime Switch Question

Before you go any further, there is something that you need to take
notice of. In your post, you said:


<SNIP> If I give it a bit of gas while it fires, the car will idle
> perfectly.
<SNIP>

You have probably answered your own question here. Per the the
DeLorean owner's Handbook, you >MUST< press and hold the gas pedal
down  of the way when cranking the engine! If not, the car may not
fire. So it sounds to me like your car is working just fine.

The only short explanation that I can give will make me sound like Joe
Dirt. "How's Posi-Traction work? Why does a DeLorean engine fire when
I hold the gas pedal down durring cranking? Man, it just does!" And
that explanation is both short-winded, and acceptable.

Now if you do want to read a bit, here comes the science!

Cold engines need a rich fuel mixture to start. The reason is because
the walls of the cylinders are cold, and will cause the gasoline mist
to condensate on the cylnder walls. Just like when you have a cold can
of soda pop outside in the summer time. This causes the mixture to
lean out (because the liquid fuel won't burn as efficiently). So to
compensate for the fuel that has been rendered less flamable, the
air/fuel mixture has to be richened. Or as it's commonly refered to,
the motor has to be "choked". This sends in more atomized fuel, or
fuel mist to make up for the condensated fuels place, thus achieve a
successful ignition, and make the motor run. Now it should be noted
that this only has to occur until the motor has warmed up. Which won't
take very long. Otherwise, once that initial shot of fuel stops
condinsating, the fuel mixture will become too rich. And now you know
what the function of the bi-metal arm in the Control Pressure Reguator
does!

Why do you have to hold the gas pedal down when cranking a cold motor?
I honestly do not have a 100% certain answer. But, I do have a theory.
But to really understand it, you have to know the differance between
carbs, CIS, and EFI.

Carburetors, and CIS systems like the K-Jetronic all rely on fuel
pressure of some sort to increase the volume of fuel delivered. Carbs
will increase vacuum on the venturi to phyisicly suck more gasoline
out. K-Jetronic decreases fuel pressure in the lower chambers of the
fuel distributor, so the diaphrams inside will bend down, and allow
more fuel flow out to the injectors. And it does this by purging the
excess fuel in the lower chambers into the return line to the fuel
tank.

But EFI is a different creature. It's fuel pressure stays at a
specific constant. And the injectors don't stay open. They will always
spray the exact same amount when they are open, albeit intermitantly.
So if you need to increase fuel flow, the injectors simply open and
close more often, or as it's referred as, they "cycle" more often.
They do NOT physicly increase their fuel flow which passed thru them!
And any excess fuel not consumed by the injectors is simply returned
to the tank by the fuel pressure regulator. DeLorean owners are
already familiar with EFI, because it's a large EFI injector that the
LAMBDA system uses to control fuel pressures, using this same duty
cycle. We just simply call it a "Frequency Valve".

*WHEW!* Now that that's out of the way, lets talk about how these
systems perform their choke duties on cold engines.

Carbs are simple. You close the choke plate, and engine vacuum is then
taken away from the air intake, and applied to the venturi jets. EFI
is even simpler. You just increase the duty cycle on the injectors.
K-Jetronic forgoes all of this, and simply has a 7th EFI fuel injector
installed, call the Cold Start Injector. And it's job is to spray out
the addition fuel needed. Now the theory is that this injector has to
 cope with the etreme pressures of CIS, But as a result it has a
higher flow rate, and is dumping out too much fuel. If you trip a
thermal probe on EFI, or close the choke on a carb, the motors just
run crappy. BUT, if you WILL flood the motor on a D if you open the
Cold Start Injector when it's running. To prevent you from flooding
the motor when cranking, the thermo time switch has a bi-metal arm
intergrated inside to close the CSI after a few seconds if power is
continuously applied. Although this is also listed as a safty feature
to prevent the Catalytic Convertor from overheating. But still, it
shows that someone was thinking ahead. So more than likely, you've got
to hold that gas pedal down to to feed extra air into the combustion
chambers to keep the air/fuel ratio balanced out, to keep it from
becomming too rich durring choke, and stalling the motor out when it
floods. Jumping the cold start injector durring cranking will start
you car when it's hot, yes. Because you'll diesel start it, and that's
bad. Aside from possible detonation damage, you can wash out your
rings, and overheat your catalytic convertor.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: casey barlow <dmc1288mph_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thermotime Switch Question

Hi everyone, As I understand it, the thermotime switch has two wires connected to it, the blue/black wire carries the ground to the cold start valve when the engine is cold, and the red/white wire is positive, and heats the thermotime switch, so not to cause flooding of the engine while cranking. To me it seems, you would just connect the blue/black wire at the thermotime to a grounding point on the engine (to check the thermotime switch). This would give the cold start valve the ground it needs to fire.If you put a jumper wire between the blue/black and the red/white wires on the thermotime switch that would send positive current to both sides of the cold start valve, and it would not fire.   Just my 2 cents,
                                                                                               Casey Barlow                        everyone  I have a quick question.

As you all may or may not recall, I recently dug up an
article about jumping the thermotime switch by Bruce
Benson from 03/16/98. This was an effort to fix a
problem I've been having where my car fires
immediately and stalls immediately. If I give it a
bit of gas while it fires, the car will idle
perfectly. So I jumped the plug that goes into the
side of the thermotime switch, and the car will crank
and fire without one hesitation (I did this after it
was "overnight" cold - at least 7 1/2 hours). Some
owners have told me though through their knowledge of
the cold start system that jumping the plug as
instructed really shouldn't work causing a short or
the engine not to crank. Everytime I do it though, my
car bounces immediately to life.

Could someone please explain (I don't need a thesis,
just an understanding) what this jump does, and why it
fires the car right up? I want to understand if I
have a faulty thermotime switch, or if there is
another bug that this procedure is by-passing. Thank
you everyone.

Jeremiah




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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: steve trimble <stevetrimble52_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Travel Tip

If anyone traveling to P.F. from the north is planning
on staying in the Lexington,KY area an interesting
side trip may be the Corvair National Show held
Wednesday thru Sunday. The display show is Wednesday
at the Rupp Arena parking lot. They are expecting 250
cars, and for $4.00 you can get a raffle ticket on a
re-conditioned $16,000.00 Corvair to be given away!! 
Steve Trimble
vin 3121 
KY tag "DMC-12"


	
		
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 01:58:32 -0000
From: "dracula2893" <franklinairshow_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Need a room at Smokey Shadows

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dracula2893" <franklinairshow_at_dml_a...> 
wrote:
> I booked two rooms last year, and all I need is one now. So if 
anyone 
> needs a room at the Smokey Shadows Hotel let me know ASAP.
> 
> Kyle
> franklinairshow_at_dml_a...

Sorry everyone room taken.
Kyle




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 03:12:40 -0000
From: "supermattthehero" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: insurance questions

I have Condon & Skelly.  I have had 1 speeding ticket, no accidents, 
agreed value at $15K, and insurance for my 22 year-old self is 
$238/year with 2500 miles allowance.  They aren't too strict about 
the mileage though as long as you don't go crazy.  

Matt
#1604


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sebastain_valmont" <orentha_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> Hi.
> I know this has been covered before, but I searched and nothing 
came 
> up when I searched for "insurance"
> 
> I just got my Hagerty renewal in the mail today.
> And my premium used to be $340 for the year, full coverage, $18K 
> agreed coverage.
> 
> Now my premium has been raised to $649.
> I called them to complain about it, but it's because I've under 26 
> years old, and "to provide the best possible coverage to the 
broadest 
> possible group of collectors" blah blah blah, they have to raise 
the 
> premiums.
> I've been with them 5 years, and have submitted no claims or 
> anything, and I get screwed for it...
> 
> So can some of you guys recommend any other classic insurers for 
me.
> There is no way I'm going to pay Hagerty double my old premium...
> That's bs.
> 
> Thanks for the input




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:21:29 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Idle speed searching

Now that you don't have the restrictive air flow by an original filter or a
stock replacement the mixture is leaner and may need readjusting. The K&N
and the Blue filter are the least restrictive for more air flow. This tells
you it's working.
John



-----Original Message-----
From: johnzd81 [mailto:johnzd81_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 2:02 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Idle speed searching


Hello,
    Just got around to replacing my air filter with a K & N style
filter (from Special T) and now the idle is erratic when I first
start the car.  It goes from about 700 to 1000 rpm for about 3
minutes, then levels out rock solid at 900.  I don't see any hoses
off, or cracked etc... and the idle was a solid 900 before the air
filter replacement.

Thanks
VIN1674




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:26:23 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: AC correct operation?

They will cycle some. Are you running on maximum or normal, what blower
motor speed, what is the temp out side. Has the drier been replaced along
with the orifice valve. All these things come into play in cycling.
John Hervey


-----Original Message-----
From: sweitzel_2000 [mailto:sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com]
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 11:08 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] AC correct operation?


Greetings:

Question - is the AC compressor on the D supposed to be charged
enough to run continuously when the mode switch is on MAX and the
fans on HIGH? and then only cycle when the mode switch is on Normal
or Bi Level and/or the fan switch is set to a lower speed? I've been
getting conflicting reports. Right now I'm running Freeze-12 in my
system and have charged it to run about 38psi low/175psi high at
idle. At 3000rpm it runs 29-30psi low and 220psi high. Since it
doesn't drop below 25psi at 3000 rpm, the clutch never cycles off
when the settings are on MAX. If i kick the settings down in the car,
it starts cycling. Is this correct? (BTW, Freeze-12 works VERY well.
im getting about 38 degrees F out the vents.)




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:38:18 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: July 4th Car Show Pasadena Texas Convention Center on Sunday

Frank, Thanks for the info but as Delorean parts vendor I don't have a show
car at this time. Also our big convention is next weekend and I don't have
time to get one ready.
John Hervey
P.S. Please keep me notified.

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank [mailto:montlyfool_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 7:57 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] July 4th Car Show Pasadena Texas Convention Center on
Sunday


Would like to see a few Deloreans this year...

Trophies will be presented in all classes, and five prestige award
winners will be named. Pasadena Mayor John Manlove will bestow a
mayor's choice award onto his favorite vehicle, and spectators will
have the chance to give their pick the community choice award. Other
awards include best display and best of show.

The city has taken measures to see that this year's car show is
significantly larger than last year's by teaming up with O'Reilly
Auto Parts to make the event attractive to a wider range of 4th Fest
visitors.

Trophies will be presented in all classes, and five prestige award
winners will be named. Pasadena Mayor John Manlove will bestow a
mayor's choice award onto his favorite vehicle, and spectators will
have the chance to give their pick the community choice award. Other
awards include best display and best of show.

Anyone who is interested in entering the car show should contact the
Pasadena Parks and Recreation Department office at (713) 740-7062 to
request an entry form, or visit the office at 3111 San Augustine to
pick one up.




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:42:35 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Relay/Fuse Upgrade

Joe, Be careful using any jumper in the fan fail. Mine or anyone's. They can
over heat as well as the Circuit breaker they drawer their power from. (
Hot ). The fan fail and fan relay needs to be updated with better products.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com





-----Original Message-----
From: joeyoseppijoe [mailto:joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 2:05 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Relay/Fuse Upgrade


I picked up one of those a while ago from the same guy for $149.95,
after looking them over they weren't worth it, sold them to someone
else. After besically having a relay kit from every vendor now, I
can safely say the PJ Grady has the best relay kit available, all
Bosch relays, the fused jumper for the fain fail, and the spade bit
realys are the same style relay. All other make you hack up your
wiring  and solder to install the breakers which just wasn't for me.
Grady's clips on just like the origonals. For the money and quality,
I use Grady's relays.

Just my $0.02 on relay updates


Joe

2524 & 16634




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2036 01:30:08 -0500 EST
From: "Michael Paine" <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Need a room at Smokey Shadows

Not every room... I believe he just said he has an extra one:

"if anyone needs a room at the Smokey Shadows Hotel let me know ASAP"

regards,

Michael
vin 6067

> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dracula2893" <franklinairshow_at_dml_a...> 
> wrote:
> > I booked two rooms last year, and all I need is one now. So if 
> anyone 
> > needs a room at the Smokey Shadows Hotel let me know ASAP.
> > 
> > Kyle
> > franklinairshow_at_dml_a...
> 
> Sorry everyone room taken.
> Kyle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://
> groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Thermotime Switch Question

I NEVER apply ANY pressure to the gas pedal when
starting my DeLorean and, frankly, not only does it
start every time, but it fires with the least amount
of starter assistance of any car I have ever owned.

Guess I'll have to dig out my handbook and read it!!

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867


--- therealdmcvegas <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net> wrote:

> Per the the
> DeLorean owner's Handbook, you >MUST< press and hold
> the gas pedal
> down  of the way when cranking the engine! 


	
		
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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:19:52 -0400
From: "Hank" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: XM radio


Does anyone have satellite radio? Where and how did you mount the antenna?

A last minute "enhancement" before leaving for PF.

Thanks,

-Hank

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:37:02 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: insurance questions

A note on the semi-annual insurance threads - the most important 
factors on insurance (when comparing approximately the same car and 
the same coverage) are your driving record, age and where you live. 
These can cause differences in the hundreds of percents. If you don't 
mention these three things, comparisons and discussions are 
completely meaningless. 

A 21-year-old with chargeable accidents living in Chicago can pay 10 
times the amount of a 50 year-old with a clean record living in Iowa, 
on the same car for the same coverage. 

If you raise your comprehensive deductible that has a huge impact on 
the cost too. Be sure to include the coverage amount, for example one 
person may carry 100K liability and another $1M. They won'e be paying 
the same. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sebastain_valmont" <orentha_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> Hi.
> I know this has been covered before, but I searched and nothing 
came 
> up when I searched for "insurance"
> 
> I just got my Hagerty renewal in the mail today.
> And my premium used to be $340 for the year, full coverage, $18K 
> agreed coverage.
> 
> Now my premium has been raised to $649.
> I called them to complain about it, but it's because I've under 26 
> years old, and "to provide the best possible coverage to the 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:49:39 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: AC correct operation?

You didn't mention the outside temp but, the pressures look ok. What 
is the fan speed? Any modifications to the system? Max is only a 
recirculation of air and a shutoff of the heater valve - there is no 
built-in continuious clutch mode (at low speeds) like some older GM 
cars, etc. The most air moves across the evaporator at max so a 
slower cycling would be normal until the low side pressure drops 
enough - which in your case you should be near refrigerator quality.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_l...> 
wrote:
> Greetings:
> 
> Question - is the AC compressor on the D supposed to be charged 
> enough to run continuously when the mode switch is on MAX and the 
> fans on HIGH? and then only cycle when the mode switch is on 
Normal 
> or Bi Level and/or the fan switch is set to a lower speed? I've 
been 
> getting conflicting reports. Right now I'm running Freeze-12 in my 
> system and have charged it to run about 38psi low/175psi high at 
> idle. At 3000rpm it runs 29-30psi low and 220psi high. Since it 
> doesn't drop below 25psi at 3000 rpm, the clutch never cycles off 
> when the settings are on MAX. If i kick the settings down in the 
car, 
> it starts cycling. Is this correct? (BTW, Freeze-12 works VERY 
well. 
> im getting about 38 degrees F out the vents.)




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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