From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2094
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:28 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?
From: "thebrave65" <>

2. RE: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <>

3. Re: Logo? (WAS: Another DeLorean giveaway)Trademark
From: "Charlie" <>

4. Re: Brakes Squeaking deuce
From: "Harold McElraft" <>

5. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: Louie G <>

6. RE: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: "Video Bob" <>

7. DCS 2006 Suggestions
From: Steve Stankiewicz <>

8. Re: and another thing.............
From: Marc Levy <>

9. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: "d_rex_2002" <>

10. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing (Long)
From: "content22207" <>

11. RE: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <>

12. Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: Noah <>

13. Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge (Judged Cars)
From: "content22207" <>

14. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: "Hank" <>

15. Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

16. Re: Raffles, Entertainment, etc.
From: "Mark" <>

17. RE: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: Marc Levy <>

18. DCS Comments
From: "Rick" <>

19. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: Jeremy Delaney <>

20. Re: Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge

21. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

22. Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

23. Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

24. Re: Cruise control
From: Peter Lucas <>

25. Re: DCS 2006 Suggestions

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:46:53 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <>
Subject: Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

Well, you can look at it from different angles.  Personally, to me, 
my car is almost priceless.  To my wife, it's almost worthless, but 
she doesn't mind me owning it!

>From all of the upgrades/repairs/mileage (if actual), you are 
probably right in the correct ballpark of $17-$18K.  That EFI is 
kinda nice IMO.

$12K is a steal, and if I didn't have one, I would seriously consider 


> 6147 has been advertised in Collector Car Trader for about 2 months 
now for $18,000 or B/O.
> I got a call about 2 weeks ago from a gentleman in Dallas who said 
he wanted it. We were working out the shipping when his wife stepped 
in and told him he couldn't have it. Actually she didn't like the way 
it looked.
> Well it got me to thinking... what's the car really worth?
> So here's a little experiment at my expense.
> If anyone on the list wants it they can have the car for $12,000.
> Here's the URL for the add.
> Whats this DeLorean worth to those that know them well?
> Even if you don't want to buy it, what do you think it's worth on 
todays market?
> Jim
> 6147


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:37:52 -0400
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <>
Subject: RE: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

Like anything, It's worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. If
all of a sudden nobody wanted to buy anymore Deloreans, do you think you
could command a price for them? The only reason these cars are worth the
value that they are at right now, is because of the few of us who want
the car AND can afford it.

For what you've put into the car, it's worth the 18K to anybody with the
means to acquire it. For me, I'd LOVE to just shell out the 12K (bye-bye
home equity) and have that thing by the end of the week, but I can't.

I'd love to see everyone all of a sudden wanting a Delorean AND being
able to afford it, hopefully that will happen right after I purchase

-Jeff Chabotte
Norwich, CT (RIP: 2004) (coming soon)

-----Original Message-----
From: [] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: [DML] [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

6147 has been advertised in Collector Car Trader for about 2 months now
for $18,000 or B/O. I got a call about 2 weeks ago from a gentleman in
Dallas who said he wanted it. We were working out the shipping when his
wife stepped in and told him he couldn't have it. Actually she didn't
like the way it looked.

Well it got me to thinking... what's the car really worth?


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:21:33 -0000
From: "Charlie" <>
Subject: Re: Logo? (WAS: Another DeLorean giveaway)Trademark

Maybie its cause the DMC logo is owned by Delorean Motor Company and 
they dont want to pay trademark fees??  Look at the PL BTTF model it 
does not have it either.. Or like your sunstar DeLorean box says on 
the bottom...

"The DMC logo is a registered trademark of DeLorean Motor Company
(Texas) and is used with permission."

This is a ad so they probably did not ask for permission.


> --- In, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > I wonder why the large photo of the DeLorean is
> > missing the grille "DMC" logo..  


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 00:35:52 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <>
Subject: Re: Brakes Squeaking deuce

What you describe is usually caused by a stuck caliper piston - can 
be really LOUD, right? If you really get on the brakes it will pull 
to the side that is NOT stuck. Be careful, the amount of pull might 
be surprising.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In, BondAtomic_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Well, I thought it would be advantageous if I explained more of 
the squeaking 
> from hell-
> There won't be much for squeaking for a little while, and then the 
> starts. This, I can assume, is caused by the rotors heating up. 
> The squeaking isn't a solid squeak, it is more like a squeak that 
> intermittently, constantly. I guess it would be a certain part of 
the disc. I 
> believe this is only happening on the front brakes, but I can't 
really tell if it 
> isn't a rear or two.
> With this, I was just wondering if it would be fixed by buying the 
pads and 
> anti-squeak shims, or if I would have to buy new rotors, also. 
>From reading 
> previous posts, could the handbrake cables play a part in this 
> Thanks for the help.
> John
> 4275
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie G <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

A common complaint I heard was people wishing we could have all the cars in truly one place at one time, separate from non-DeLorean cars. I know with the sprawling touristy nature of Pigeon Forge it would have been hard/near impossible to rope off a parking lot and allow nothing but us. Will Pheasant Run be different?

Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC

--- "dalaurieann" <> wrote:
I realize that by commenting on the show as I saw it will render 
numerous responses defending the show and messages stating that there 
must be something wrong with me to make these comments but I will say 
them anyway as I feel that it is my moral duty.


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:21:02 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <>
Subject: RE: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

...Man, I hat to keep replying to this subject, but you touched on something 
that I
completely forgot about!
We had some of the biggest names in the industry get up and talk,
and all we heard were lame jokes, watched someone's wedding home movies
and talked about a movie we have all seen 100 times.
It was cool to see vendors giving away stuff but not one of them answered 
any tech least not on stage.
I guess if there was something you wanted to know you needed to ask them at
their booths.
The biggest tragedy might have been Rob Grady's troubles.
Everyone missed him being there on time, but hey, that's how it goes.
- VB

>To: <>
>Subject: RE: [DML] Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
>Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:54:29 -0400
>There must be something wrong with me too!
>I have to agree with Dalaurieann there was room for improvement,
>I'm not sure if I could have done better.


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 11:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <>
Subject: DCS 2006 Suggestions

Having coordinated several custom/street rod shows,
I've seen the various ways they can be organized.  As
an experiment, I did do one show where I forced the
cars into designated parking areas, by class.  It was
alot of work estimating the spaces needed, expanding
and shrinking areas as needed and just getting the
cars into the right spots, but I feel it was the most
fairly judged show I'd ever run.  As someone mentioned
earlier, if a judge can stand in one spot and see
every car in the class, comparing and picking the
winner is much easier and in the end more fair. (I
think it makes it more interesting for the spectators
too to be able to compare cars in a given class.)
Arranging for this type of layout is much more
difficult though.  We had a sign company as a sponsor
and they created nice little signs for each class that
we posted on stantions.  Since we had most of our
registrations the day of the show, we had to do
guestimates of the final size of each class. 
(Presumably that would be easier with the DCS as most
are pre-registered (Ken?))  I also spent the entire
morning, on my bicycle, shuttling cars around the lot,
from the registration table to their class parking
area.  If space permits, Ken I'll volunteer to help
coordinate class-based parking for 2006.

One more recommendation:  At the PF show, I noticed
that while several of the more technical speakers were
talking, many people (who I assume weren't interested
in nuts and bolts) were talking and making it
difficult for others to hear.  If the facilities in
Chicago permit, I'd suggest holding the seminars in
separate rooms as "break-out" sessions separate from
the main "social/dining area".  This would also allow
for more sessions and possibly concurrent ones. 
Again, this all depends on the facilities.

What do you guys (and gals) think?

Thanks again for everything Ken!


VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 05:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: Re: and another thing.............

See below:

--- dalaurieann <> wrote:
> I would just like to make a few more comments and
> then I will get off 
> my high horse.  In regards to Saturday night you
> need to stop and 
> think about what entertainment value was there to
> those who were not 
> recognized by verbal praise or some sort of award? 

Are you talking about the car show awards?  Are you
upset that you did not win?

> It's nice to 
> share in the accomplishments of others but there are
> limits on that 
> as well.  This was hour after hour after hour of ego
> feeding.  

The awards were a short part of the evening.  If you
think about all of the other things that went on. 
Fred Dellis and Rob Grady spoke, Jeff Weissman spoke,
We had raffles where some of the vendors spoke, and
the auction.  (Was there more?  I may be forgetting
some things). 

> Suggestions for the future are much better
> organization.  Some sort 
> of shuttle provided when individuals do not have
> access to their car 
> if the hotel that many people are staying at is not
> at the same 
> location as the show.

Better organization?  Can you elaborate on this?  To
me this implies less freedom.  Ken gave lots of
options for people to entertain themselves on Saturday
(Look at cars, listen to music, watch videos, shop the
vendors, or just sit and chat!).  If we had a strict
schedule, I don't think it would work as well.

I don't know if a shuttle would have been used much. 
However, if you wanted to leave but made the mistake
of putting your car inside I am sure someone with a
car outside would have been happy to help you with a
lift.  You could also call a Cab.  The cost of a
shuttle for the show would have been a waste.

> Every car owner who enters
> the show should 
> receive some form of recognition just for
> participating in the show.  

Everyone who registered early got a tee-shirt.  Each
family (car or not) got a pin.  I have been to lots of
local shows, and have a large collection of "Free Dash
Plaques" sitting in a box.  They are useless.  I don't
need a trinket to remember that I participated in an
event like this.  However, what do you suggest be
given to participants?  (Again, I question if you are
upset that you did not win anything).

> A polished, professional MC to moderate the show. 

Like the shuttle, Cost is a factor.  I think the
volunteers did a great job.  Having a professional MC
would have not added any enjoyment to the show.

> Jeffrey Weisman 
> was the best speaker of the entire event because he
> didn't repeat 
> himself over and over, he didn't stay on one subject
> til it was 
> driven into the ground and he interjected humor that
> everyone could 
> relate to.  That is the type of speaker that is
> needed to keep the 
> flow and momentum of the event.  Whoever the MC is
> needs to be versed 
> on what he or she is talking about.  A very detailed
> outline with 
> plan B's   

Maybe you want to MC next time?  Who are you?!

> I also wanted to mention the
> disrespectful treatment of 
> Joe Charter. 

I did not see any disrespect for Joe.

> I had so much
> anticipation and 
> excitement leading up to the show.  Maybe my
> expectations were too 
> high.  Nevertheless I still feel obligated to
> express the viewponts 
> of myself and many others who attended the show.

Based on your suggestions and comments above, I am at
a loss as to why you were so disappointed.  I guess
you can't please everyone.

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! 


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:58:18 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

--- In, "dalaurieann" <dalaurieann_at_dml_y...> 
> I realize that by commenting on the show as I saw it will render
> numerous responses defending the show and messages stating that 
> there must be something wrong with me to make these comments but
> I will say them anyway as I feel that it is my moral duty.  
> snip <
> The amount of time money and effort put into 
> attending the show was NOT worth the return.
> snip <

I know that each individual's comments can be considered helpful
but I think they should try to get the whole story before they
offer criticism.  I was disappointed by a few things, but I did
let Ken K. know what they were while at the PF show (and after).

As one of the first persons to bring vehicles to the PF show and
the last person to transport vehicles back home (via third party)
at a quite substantial person cost, I think my time, money and
effort to attend the show exceeded most people and most vendor
costs for attending, and I did not take anything physical away
from the event (3 vehicles out of 5 expected to bring, no awards).
As disappointing as these facts are, they are NOT the reasons why
I attended the show and brought several of my vehicles.

The D Rex and GT40RC arrived at PF on Saturday, June 12 and did
not leave until Saturday, June 26, all due to mechanical problems
from the transport (blown trailer tires & trailer brake failure).
A big thanks to Ken K. and Dave Baurle in helping to get the two
Big Boys back through the mountains and back home.  I still have
not caught up on my sleep yet - maybe after July 4th parades.
Although I had these problems and several more, I would not have
missed attending the PF show (with vehicles) for any reasonable
cost.  I noticed that we have not seen any posts from people who
did not attend the show just because fuel prices were still up.

I too prefer to have a little more structure than most, which has
served me well in most occasions, and since I will continue to
help Ken plan the DCS 2006 event in the Chicago area, you can rest
assure there will be as much structure that I can put in that Ken
will allow and still keep things fun.  There will also be a lot of
new things at this event that you have not seen at other DCS events.

My recommendation would be to talk to Ken about what he went through
with the entire event, then offer your comments if they are still
valid or constructive.  We all know you can probably twist Ken's arm
to talk about the DCS event for a while.  (he lives for this stuff)

I hope my comments put things in better perspective for those of you
that attended the PF show and those who plan on attending DCS 2006.

Rich W.


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:15:19 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing (Long)

Two Dollars from my perspective (post grew beyond 2 Cents as I wrote):

Based on Ken's preview of Pheasant Run, I worry DCS 2006 might focus
too much on "extracurricular" activities. My biggest complaint about
2004 is daytime Friday attendees were pretty much on their own
recognizance. The Dragon Run was not an organized event (misleading
advertising?) missed by quite a few of us. Not until evening did group
programming kick in, continuing however quite well through the
remainder of the weekend.

For me, some of biggest attractions are in the parking lot. Based on
the pandemonium I arrived to Thursday night at Smokey Shadows, my
sentiments are shared: car repairs, socializing, loud music, tech
advice, vehicle comparisions, etc. Despite a gruelling 9 hour drive
just completed, I of course joined right in (don't I look frazzled in
Jai Johnston's pic?). Didn't even check into the hotel until nearly
midnight. DCS could do worse than to captialize on this obvious
owner/enthusiast attraction.

Speaking of parking lots: did anyone notice how many people congegated
Saturday OUTSIDE the convention center? I made an obligatory pass
through the displayed cars, then spent the rest of the day among
vehicles that never made it in (BTW: anyone with a car stuck inside
could have gotten a ride back to Smokey Shadows, or anywhere else in
town for that matter, from those of us outside. Did you even ask?). 

Vendors appear to have done a brisk business. I opted not to consume
their limited time or inventory with needs that could be met mail
order after the show. Would certainly have bought something had my
vehicle been out of service! Did make contacts for the future... (Can
you spell Bryan Pearce...). Definitely keep them at future DCS's.

I rather enjoyed evening programming (Friday & Saturday). Food was
excellent (did I hear Ken correctly Re: his wife baking desert for 500
people?). The speakers were very knowledgeable in their fields. Let's
be honest: Joe Charter was more background music than anything else.
And by the time the Cincinnati Chicks took the stage, the evening was
winding down to light weight closing silliness anyway (ditto for
Saturday's raffle).

Special note to future DCS attendees: if anyone comes by your table
offering to sell you a blue raffle ticket, don't buy it. Blue tickets
are not included.

The single best thing about a DeLorean is NOT the car. It's the PEOPLE
you meet through the car. In that respect DCS is something of a
misnomer. As long as Ken maximizes interactions between
past/present/future owners, enthusiasts, general public, and the
occasional celebrity, his show will be a success.

Bill Robertson

>--- In, kKoncelik_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I think the comments made is interesting since I cannot find the
person on 
> the registered list. So they either just walked in or registered at
the show or 
> are using an alias e-mail.
> If you  make a comment we all would respect it more if you identified 
> yourself.
> Based on the lack of identifying yourself your comments mean very
little to 
> anyone.
> I have no comment rather than to say if you can do better
(especially on the 
> budget we have )
> be my guest I would love to retire from this and am looking for a 
> knowledgeble replacement.
> If you want it its all yours.
> Ken
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:51:15 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <>
Subject: RE: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

I like live music, but here's a possibility: Hire a DJ for one or moe 
evenings in lieu of live music. The money saved could be used for other 
purposes, like improved food, security for the display floor, or "whatever".

Joe Kuchan

>From: "Video Bob" <>
>Subject: RE: [DML] Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
>Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:14:17 -0500
>...Concerning your comments on "costs",
>I would have rather had my money spent on decent "entertainment"
>rather than spend $45 for a dinner that was not as good as your average


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:55:40 -0400
From: Noah <>
Subject: Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 12:14:17PM -0500, Video Bob wrote:
> As far as music goes, it would be cool to see someone relevant like
> Huey Lewis and the News or something like that.
> Or, to bring more BTTF people in, etc.

BTTF was a fun flick, sure. But (speaking only for myself) I'm not
involved with the cars because I'm passionate about the movie. The movie
/is/ the only reason I know the cars exist, but that's the extent of it.
If there was zero BTTF stuff at the DMC shows, I'd be happy as a clam. I
don't have anything against the movies (yes, I bought the DVD set at the
show, not that I've watched them), but come on. It's been 20 years.
Find something new. =)

I go to the shows in the hopes of meeting DMC gearheads, picking their
brains, getting ideas from other owners (and their cars), answering 
questions to DMC and non-DMC folks about the cars in general (and mine 
in particular, if they're interested). If I come away having learned 
some stuff, it's a success for me. If I've met some more cargeeks in 
my area, so much the better.

(Northern Virginia)


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:13:31 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge (Judged Cars)

In the rush to better position cars for judging, don't overlook those
of us with unshowable vehicles.

One of the complaints I heard Re: Cleveland and Memphis was the
display of judgeable cars alongside unjudgeable ones. Made owners of
each uncomfortable. Separating them was wise at Pigeon Forge. Of
course better provision could have been made for those of us outside,
perhaps even turning their fixer-upperness into a show asset, but
that's what future improvements are for.

Not every DCS attendee wishes to compete, but would like to be
included otherwise.

Bill Robertson

>--- In, DmcGman_at_dml_c... wrote:
>   The idea of cars in chronological order is a good idea.  The one
aspect of the shows that I am not a fan of is that the cars are never
parked in any type of order except for maybe the specialty cars or
feature cars.  I realize that it is difficult especially with an
indoor show.  But in Cleveland or Memphis it would have been nice to
see them in chronological order or better yet in groups of mileage, as
the categories are marked out for awards.  Again I realize it takes
some planning.  For the next show I would like to see the cars parked
in groups such as 0-10k, 10k-20k, 


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:23:46 -0400
From: "Hank" <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

>The Friday drive was a free-for-all; infact, we followed Marc Levy down the
>wrong road because we didn't what was going on.

I just want to jump in here and say that that was not a fair statement:  

 1. The route had an unexpected and EXTREMELY POORLY MARKED DETOUR, which fouled up ALOT, if not MOST people.  The route organizers even planned for this, but they expected the detour to be gone by the time PF rolled around.  

2. I don't think you mean Marc Levy, since he was in our group of five (Marc, Gary/Jen, Tom/Carol, Josh, and myself). If you were following us, we certainly weren't aware of it.   

3. The driving tours have always been a "free-for-all", as YOU get to choose when you leave and how fast you take the tour.  It's never intended to be a hundred deloreans driving on the tour at the same time.  

Finally, if you didn't know "what was going on", take responsibilty to find out - don't blame another driver who is just as unfamiliar with the roads and route as you are.



Message: 15
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:43:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

It is extremely easy to say "bring more BTTF guests" or "bring in Huey Lewis 
and the News", but all of that costs some serious $$.   The BTTF guests did 
not come for free to this show.   There was also a limited budget.   As I 
recall, in Memphis Ken made under $300 profit from the show.   This is definately 
not a money maker for him, and in order to book megastar bands and world famous 
actors, the costs would be tremendous.   If say Ken got Michael J. Fox and 
Huey Lewis and the News to come, the costs for a dinner alone could be $125 
instead of $45, thus causing a whole new DML thread for cost complaints.   I think 
Ken and his family did a tremendous job making T-Shirts, ALL of the awards, 
and much more to help keep costs down for all of the attendees at this show.   

Great job Ken!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:27:38 -0400
From: "Mark" <>
Subject: Re: Raffles, Entertainment, etc.

I can add my two cents, not because I was there (though I longed to be), but
because I plan events (weddings, parties, etc), and the flow and timing are
very important for such things.  Not a slight against Ken or anyone else who
had a hand in the planning, as things can easily spiral out of control if
you're not familiar with the chaos surrounding such parties.

1) If you're at a hotel, you can usually get their in-house caterers to take
care of you; Consider that they are there for every wedding, bar mitzfah,
and company X-mas party that comes through, and they have to please
everybody if they want to stay in business.  Sometimes a staff will have an
off-night, but if the food is "cafeteria grade", somebody did something

2) Dinner music is best provided by either a DJ or inobtrusive live act,
such as a lone pianist, violinst, or jazz trio.  I'm sure that there's
somebody on the list who knows somebody who is qualified to perform in this

3) If you want live entertainment, hire a comic.... For less than a few
hundred $$ you can find a professional comedian who will come in and do a
30-45 minute set.  (A good booking agent will be able to supply you with
someone suitable, so that you don't end up with the next "Diceman" for such
a varied crowd).  Maybe there's a skilled, pro comic on the list who's also
a fan of the DeLorean?  Stranger things have happened.
(Better still, see if you can find out what Charlie Fleischer would charge?)

4) Raffles... if you have  DJ performing dinner music, you can have him turn
it down during spaces to give away prizes.... if there are a lot of them,
they should be done one right after the other... if someone doesn't come up
for their prize after the number has been called 3 times, go to the next
one, or put that one aside.  If there are simply too many prizes, it might
be better to have fewer and better prizes.

5) Speaking during dinner - Either have the speaker come to the podium, or
if it's too crowded/difficult, get a cordless microphone and have the MC
carry it to the person asked to speak, then collect it from them for the
next person who must speak.

That's all I can think of, but what's been described here sounds a lot like
a couple of X-mas parties I've DJ'd.  Before I was helping plan them, I was
just a human jukebox, following the instructions of people who weren't that
experienced (no slight against them, it's a big deal that many organizations
just drop on the lap of some people).

Mark in Ontario, eh!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Video Bob" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

> ...Concerning your comments on "costs",
> I would have rather had my money spent on decent "entertainment"


Message: 17
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: RE: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

See Below

--- wrote:
> First everyone had hotel problems and it seems like
> parking was all over the
> place.

The low cost rooms did leave a lot to be desired. Keep
in mind, to have the show inside as Ken did there were
not a lot of places to choose from.

> The Friday drive was a free-for-all; infact, we
> followed Marc Levy down the
> wrong road
> because we didn't what was going on.

Followed me??  How is that possible?  Gary G. was in
front of me, and Tom G. was behind me.  I don't think
you can blame anyone involved with the show for the
detour sign which was painted over.  Besides, if this
is the worst thing that happened the whole weekend big
deal!  so you took a 5 min detour on the detour!

> Most of us spend lot of time maintaining and
> improving our cars but there
> were no discussions
> on this topic but hours about a movie. I would have
> liked to hear about ways
> to improve
> handling and power tricks others have found.
> Speaking to few other people,
> they might agree.

Great idea for the next show.  Every show is
different, this one happened to focus on the BTTF
movie because of the guests.  I was disappointed
because 2 years ago Ken told me the focus would be on
performance modifications, like the Turbos.  As the
show evolved, it became clear that it was not going
that way.  Maybe with the discussion of getting track
time in Chicago, Ken can try and get more technical
discussions going.  (Of course, people will complain
it is TOO technical!).  Frankly, I was surprised at
the lack of technical questions for Fred.  I did warn
him that the audience was mixed between people who did
not even know what a Turbocharger looked like, to
others who could probably design their own system.
> I did enjoy seeing all the Deloreans together.
> However, I do feel the
> atmosphere did
> not lend itself well to a group enviroment and
> getting to know new people.

Again, Suggestions on how to improve this??  You want
to maybe have those kids games they do on the first
day of school to meet all the other kids in the class?

> Ken
> #02700
> (identified myself, not intimidated)



Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:59:36 -0000
From: "Rick" <>
Subject: DCS Comments

Hi everyone.

I haven't posted a message to the DML in ages (probably years!), but 
I must say that I've really enjoyed reading all the comments about 
Pigeon Forge, both positive and negative. 

I didn't attend the last DeLorean Car Show, but I'm planning to make 
the trip for Chicago in '06. I have, however, been to a DOA expo 
in '98 which I attended with my dad. It may be sacreligious to say 
on this on the DML, but I thought it was pretty cool! Although there 
were only 30 DeLoreans there, it was still the most number of 
DeLoreans I'd seen in one place. We met heaps of great people 
(granted at the time I was ignorant of all the politics going on), 
and despite the constant annoying barage of people selling raffle 
tickets, I had a great time :-)

I cancelled my DOA membeship the following year simply because the 
exchange rate between Australia and the US was getting too 
expensive. And to be honest there wasn't much in it for 
international members except for a nice magazine.

But, like I said, I've really enjoyed reading all your experiences 
from the latest DCS. And I can't wait for the next show. Chicago! 
Home of the Blues Brothers! C'mon, you've gotta make the House Of 
Blues part of the itinerary for DCS '06 ;-)

As for these negative comments on DCS '04. Well, I guess we all just 
need the drama. That's why they're so entertaining to read.

Sydney, Aust.

PS. Any other Australians besides me planning on going to Chicago?


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:08:01 -0400
From: Jeremy Delaney <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

I was 16 when I attended the first show. Since then, I have been to all 
4 DeLorean car shows (Cincinatti, Cleveland, Memphis, Pigeon Forge) and 
I've enjoyed every single one of them. Each one was a unique and 
satisfying experience that has greatly enhanced my DeLorean experience. 
The people in the DeLorean community have always been friendly and 
helpful to me and I think the DeLorean Car Show exemplifies the very 
best aspects of  the community. I attended the Cincinatti and Cleveland 
shows before I became an owner and I was always made to feel welcome. 
The DeLorean Car Show is what kept my dream alive until I was finally 
able to purchase my own DeLorean and bring it to Memphis for its first 
show. I've made great friends and have had some real memorable 
experiences from attending these shows. The experience that you have is 
entirely up to you. You can feel isolated and disconnected from the 
group, or you can jump right in and meet some great people. You can let 
the little things get to you (like the music) or you can overlook them 
and enjoy all of the other great things that the show has to offer. It's 
your choice what kind of experience you're going to have. Just don't 
disguise your attack on the DeLorean Car Show people by calling it 
"constructive criticism". If you can't find a way to have fun at these 
shows then you need to examine yourself instead of lashing out at people 
who only want to make the DeLorean community a better place. -Take care.

Jeremy Delaney


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:18:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge

I agree with you on this one 
The suggestion of grouping the cars has been made and as much as I have tried 
I have just not had the manpower to do it.

This year the judging was interesting because we did not occupy the show time 
and people had time to go about and do their own thing.

On your catagory specifically I was amazed at the number of cars in that 
catagory. It would be impressive to see them together.

If we can get a group together to do it by vin or by miles I am all for it 

You all saw the registration on Friday and Sat and while it is easy to get 
help on Thursday 
( I want to thank all those that helped on Thursday we never had a line 

So here is my challenge 
Someone decide on how you want the cars
I will give you a layout of the building 
and do what you want to line up the cars 
But please follow through

Tell me how you want to judge (as they enter or at the show) 

Here is an opportunity for someone to take over this part.
I always am in fear of this.

By the way I was impressed on how fast the cars got out at 5PM Sat.  I 
expected a lot of problems but it went smooth. Thank you car pushers.

Keep this thought and help make it a reality 
I cannot do it on my own.
Great Idea.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:33:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing


Good comments are always appreciated

The tech topics come up each time.
We had done them in the previous shows and I think some of the vendors were 
burned out.

I agree that a session on repair and such is needed.

What ideas do you have.

We thought of taking apart or reassembling a D on site but thought it might 
get a bit messy.

The vendors want to sell so that limits their time. (they need setup and 

Who do you want to hear we will get them next time 
I will do what you want but telling me what you want and being specific would 
be helpful.

Parking at the hotel got screwed up they forgot to block off the front two 
aisles for us.  I was refunded for that. 

OOPS if that is all that went wrong I can live with it.

There were a number of things that did not go as planned but most of them you 
never knew about. 

Help is appreciated and I happen to agree with the tech thing.  Get a small 
group of two or three people that you want to hear about, put together a slide 
or video presentation 
and do it for Chicago. I will give you the time period no argument.

I never said anyone cannot contribute actually I want just the opposite.
I keep saying this is YOUR SHOW I want Groups to take time chunks and do 
their own thing.  It hasn't happened so I filled in the blanks.

Thanks for signing your e-mail.
and Good comments


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:54:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

In a message dated 6/29/2004 4:32:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:
We all know video Bob so take these responses as tounge in cheek
I enjoyed bob at the show and if he can dish it out he can take it as well 
remember these comments are in jest
...Concerning your comments on "costs",
I would have rather had my money spent on decent "entertainment"
rather than spend $45 for a dinner that was not as good as your average 
WE considered McDonalds but to cater they wanted $55 a plate.
(PS most of the e-mails and comments at the show about the food said the 
caterers were great  Did you know that this group used to do the Houston 
Astrodome.  They came from TN and wanted to return) They were on time and kept the pans 
(although the desserts were great! :P)
You better or Chris would have killed you .

I might suggest a more efficient catering and more guests.
I have no idea where this came from.  6 lines tell me where else you get 6 
as far as people if you don't try to discourage people maybe we can get more
Remember everyone there bring one more and we can double then I can make 12 
serving lines. Or for you Bob we will make 14 lines one just for you the other 
for me.
We were all thrilled to see people who had actually worked on the car and 
from the UK.
You are getting soft in your old age.

As far as music goes, it would be cool to see someone relevant like
Huey Lewis and the News or something like that.
Huey Lewis is $15K and 9 members plus transportation and expenses
Dinner cost divide by 400 and add $50 plus per plate.  Give me $110 per plate 
and I will get him but you guarentee 400.
(this is not as crazy as it seems we did get pricing on this and have used 
the raffle car as a test to see if some day we can get them,) the Nork did Huey 
and they are as close as you are gonna get for a while.
Or, to bring more BTTF people in, etc.
I take it you can get them for free.
thats Air, Car Rental, speaking fees, food, lodging 
I guess everything for you is free.  

Do I charge too much for the Free T-shirts, CD's and pins. You got those in a 
hurry.  Remember they just grow on trees free for the picking.

Remember take this post in total jest.  I am just having fun with Video Bobs 
We met for the first time at the show and he actually was nice to talk to.  I 
think his computer makes him do it LOL
Have fun I did on this one.

Just my 2 cents.
- VB

Guess we broke him on the raffle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 23
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:20:26 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

My guess is that all the stuff you have added, in particular the EFI 
conversion, is scaring off anyone who is unfamiliar with the car, or 
looks at the modifications as something that would be a maintenance 
nightmare. My guess is that if someone took that into a DMC shop for 
repairs, even they would not touch it. The advertising medium you 
have chosen is not attracting people like list-members who have more 
than passing familiarity with the DeLorean. 

With most cars, modifications either have no impact or even detract 
from the price for this reason. I hate to say it but you'd be better 
off returning the car to stock and selling off the modifications 
(seats, EFI etc) separately to people who already own the cars and 
understand the value of your engineering work. I see this happen in 
the BMW circles all the time. 

Or wait until someone with some experience with the car and 
understands what you have done comes along. 

IMO that car, in clean, stock shape, would bring 15-18k. What could 
you get for the mods separately? 

Dave Sweingle

--- In, jwit6_at_dml_c... wrote:
> 6147 has been advertised in Collector Car Trader for about 2 months 
now for $18,000 or B/O.
> I got a call about 2 weeks ago from a gentleman in Dallas who said 
he wanted it. We were working out the shipping when his wife stepped 
in and told him he couldn't have it. Actually she didn't like the way 
it looked.
> Well it got me to thinking... what's the car really worth?
> So here's a little experiment at my expense.
> If anyone on the list wants it they can have the car for $12,000.
> Here's the URL for the add.
> Whats this DeLorean worth to those that know them well?
> Even if you don't want to buy it, what do you think it's worth on 
todays market?
> Jim
> 6147


Message: 24
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:25:45 -0400
From: Peter Lucas <>
Subject: Re: Cruise control

A question for those of you who have installed cruise:

How did you connect the cable to the throttle?  Assuming that you 
attached it to the throttle spool, aren't you worried about the  cable 
from the accelerator pedal unwinding from the spool and getting hung 
up?  This would not be good.

The only obvious alternative is to locate the actuator at the pedal 
rather than in the engine compartment, but this looks like a pain.

--Pete Lucas
   VIN #06703


Message: 25
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:27:47 EDT
Subject: Re: DCS 2006 Suggestions

I agree with you on most of the points and its alwasy been hard to find a way 
to seperate the cars.  It all boils down to people people people
I get a lot of help on Thursday but the other two days people are consumed by 
the show
Your help is noted and you are more than welcome to help in Chicago
Get with Rich W or Dave S or Bob Brandys in  Chicago they want to do some 
things and its what I have asked for at every show.  So lets see what we can add 
by the owners at the Chicago show.

Overall I was satisfied.  This was the first adventure in an inside venue and 
it scared me to death.  I think it went very well. I even was smiling through 
it all.  It was the least stressful of all the shows I have done.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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