From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2095
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:31 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

2. Re: Brakes Squeaking deuce

3. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

4. DCS2006 suggestions
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

5. Re: Brakes Squeaking deuce
From: "Dani B" <>

6. Re: Cruise control
From: DMCVIN6683 <>

7. Re: Subwoofer
From: Andrew <>

8. ETDOC September Event!

9. ADMIN: DCS Comments and Suggestions
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

10. Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: "Video Bob" <>

11. Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge

12. DCS2006 Venue
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

13. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: DMCVIN6683 <>

14. Key Disaster
From: "Ancira Internet Department" <>

15. Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
From: "frvianna" <>

16. Meet and Greet
From: "wayofcain" <>

17. My reflections of the show

18. Re: driving tour

19. Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

20. 50-60 k award correction

21. Re: DCS 2006 Suggestions
From: "Lauren" <>

22. Re: Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

23. Re: Re: Bad bearing or...? (Goodyear/Kelly Springfield)

24. Re: DCS 2006 Suggestions
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <>

25. should I remove my pinstripe?
From: "jmlaux83" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:30:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

Pheasant run has a special back parking lot next to the convention center we 
get for the time we are there.  They have gone out of their way to make sure 
we get the space we need in parking so we should be ok.

The convention center is as large as PF but is not broken up in sections it 
is full open


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:43:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Brakes Squeaking deuce


I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet b/c I haven't read down thread, but 
I had this same problem up until last week when i finally fixed mine. Take 
the rear wheels off of the car, look at the pins that hold the pads in the 
calipers. Are there any springs pushing the pads apart and away from the rotors on 
those pins? If there are not, this could be your problem. The idea is that 
your pads are actually wobbling in the calipers, contacting the rotors with the 
faster revolutions, and with a lack of silencing shims, squealing in a pulsing 
pattern, until you hit the brakes. When you hit the brakes it silences the 
squeals because the pads are held firmly on the rotors. Check it out.

John Weaver
RED DMC 10527

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:36:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

OK, so before the moderators decide to weigh in and chop the thread, I want 
to put in my two cents. Ken, you do an excellent job. Anyone who has put in the 
effort to organize owners, vendors, and spectators and pull it all off 
deserves a pat on the back. And, this is a great alternative to the DOA, which had 
become quite cliquey. 

That said, nothing can be perfect. The only way the show gets better is 
through trial and error. I am sure if Ken could have had JZD as the main speaker, 
he would have. I am sure if he had the time to mention every owner, he would 
have. Having done gatherings like his in the past, I understand that so much 
slips your mind and is passed over. The moment dictates what can be mentioned, 
and much of the time things sound repetitive. 

Also, I can understand why you might want to remain anonymous, but I doubt 
anyone here will blackball you for your views. It is a free country and thats 
what makes the country great. 

Ken, keep at it, the shows only get better!

John Weaver
RED DMC #10527

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:44:52 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: DCS2006 suggestions

Regarding the tech thing----since the 2006 show is in our area, we're 
looking at the possibility of hosting a pre-show tech event. This 
would have to be somewhat controlled (planned) as I'm sure my neighbors, 
already somewhat troubled by the Monster Garage thing (and the big 
white trailer currently in my driveway) would not be amused by 35 
DeLoreans lined up in the front yard. It's a long way off, but 
consider it a possibility for those who want to show up a few days 
early (or stay late).

We could also look into setting up one of those portable lifts in the 
PR parking lot, I'll bet. 

Dave (and Rich and Marty.....).

For example----

--- In, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
> Two Dollars from my perspective (post grew beyond 2 Cents as I 
> For me, some of biggest attractions are in the parking lot. Based on
> the pandemonium I arrived to Thursday night at Smokey Shadows, my
> sentiments are shared: car repairs, socializing, loud music, tech
> advice, vehicle comparisions, etc. Despite a gruelling 9 hour drive
> just completed, I of course joined right in (don't I look frazzled 
> Jai Johnston's pic?). Didn't even check into the hotel until nearly
> midnight. DCS could do worse than to captialize on this obvious
> owner/enthusiast attraction.
> Speaking of parking lots: did anyone notice how many people 
> Saturday OUTSIDE the convention center? I made an obligatory pass
> through the displayed cars, then spent the rest of the day among
> vehicles that never made it in (BTW: anyone with a car stuck inside
> could have gotten a ride back to Smokey Shadows, or anywhere else in
> town for that matter, from those of us outside. Did you even ask?). 

> The single best thing about a DeLorean is NOT the car. It's the 
> you meet through the car. In that respect DCS is something of a
> misnomer. As long as Ken maximizes interactions between
> past/present/future owners, enthusiasts, general public, and the
> occasional celebrity, his show will be a success.
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> ]


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:51:42 -0000
From: "Dani B" <>
Subject: Re: Brakes Squeaking deuce

Also if this didn't hit the list-you may want to take those pins and
smear them with anti-seize before you reassemble. This way the pads
can move freely back and forth as it needs w/o getting hung up on rust
or what not. Dani B. 5003

--- In, deloreanss_at_dml_a... wrote:
> John
> I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet b/c I haven't read down
thread, but 
> I had this same problem up until last week when i finally fixed
mine. Take 
> the rear wheels off of the car, look at the pins that hold the pads
in the 
> calipers. Are there any springs pushing the pads apart and away from
the rotors on 


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:24:32 -0500
From: DMCVIN6683 <>
Subject: Re: Cruise control

The cruise i took off my Ranger never had any problems with the cable 
getting pinched or falling off the spool.

I have several times revved up my Delorean by the spool and i have 
never had the cable bind, unwind, get pinched, or whatever.

All old cars with factory cruise had this same type of set-up and i 
never heard of any one of them having any problems with the cables and 
none of them were attached to the gas pedal that i know of.

Also there is a vacuum line attached to the cruse unit and that would 
be one long vacuum line off the engine compartment because i wouldn't 
want to tap into any of the climate control lines.

In other words there is no reason to have the cruise attached to the 
gas pedal since this has been proven unnecessary through out the years.

Mark V

On Tuesday, June 29, 2004, at 08:25  PM, Peter Lucas wrote:

> A question for those of you who have installed cruise:
> How did you connect the cable to the throttle?  Assuming that you
> attached it to the throttle spool, aren't you worried about the  cable
> from the accelerator pedal unwinding from the spool and getting hung
> up?  This would not be good.


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:44:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <>
Subject: Re: Subwoofer

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Ancira Internet Department wrote:

> I purchased an 8" sub for the compartment behind the seat.

You do realize a 10" will fit, right?  It's close, but it works.

> My question is, how did you guys that have them seal the compartment
> off? Did you build a box for the inside? It just seems to me like that
> would take away from precious airspace.

I built an MDF box that I've screwed directly onto to the back of the 
storage compartment cover.

Space is no problem if you buy the right sub.  I'm using an Image Dynamics 
ID10v3 10" driver which requires only 0.5 ft^2 sealed volume enclosure, so 
it easily fits into the storage compartment.  It's a dual voice coil 2 ohm 
sub which I have wired in parallel to a 1 ohm steady 500 W amp.  Sounds 

Pick your sub carefully given the space available, and it will sound 



Message: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:49:15 EDT
Subject: ETDOC September Event!

Hey guys, I am going to post this on the DML just in case we missed getting a 
flyer on you or in your car at the DCS. Basically, we need to know this week 
who is interested in attending so we can pin down that number of rooms at the 
lodge. Email me or the club if you have any questions or to let me know your 
intent. - John Weaver

East Tennessee Delorean Owners Club
The Fall Dragon Run
                        & THE CHEROHALA SKYWAY
(Sept. 11th & 12th)
Tapoco Lodge Resort, Robinsville, N.C.
Located directly at the tail of the Dragon
DRIVE THE DRAGON – Meet at 12PM at the Gondolier Restaurant in Maryville, TN 
for lunch. After lunch we drive “The Dragon”, if you’ve driven it, you know, 
if not then find out what all the fuss is about. 
THE TAPOCO LODGE – Ideally located in between “The Dragon” and the Cherohala 
Skyway and situated in a quiet valley, the Tapoco is well known for hosting 
various car clubs (Mini, Miata, BMW, Ferrari, and now DeLorean). We will check 
in to our rooms in the historic lodge. Enjoy your afternoon at the pool, the 
horseshoe or tennis courts, taking a nature hike, or driving “The Dragon” as 
many times as you like. (Room rates $99 per person single occupancy, $69 per 
person double occupancy)
DINNER- Your room rate includes dinner, breakfast, and then a packed lunch. 
Dinner will be New York Strip Steak (special diets can be accommodated). The 
lodge does serve beer and wine, BYOB for any other drinks. 
BREAKFAST- Your room rate includes a full breakfast after which we will move 
on to our next great drive…
THE CHEROHALA SKYWAY- If you liked “The Dragon”, you’re going to love this 
one. The Cherohala differs from “The Dragon” with its long sweeping curves, 
wide shoulders, and expansive views. High speeds (though illegal, speed limit is 
45) are easily attainable. The Skyway offers a great contrast to “The Dragon”
 and a refreshing driving experience.
(JULY 5TH) BY CALLING THE LODGE 1-800-822-5083


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:02:49 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: ADMIN: DCS Comments and Suggestions

Hi all - this is obviously a hot topic. I'm starting to get some "get 
on with it" comments, but at this point I'm letting the thread run 
for a while. It's good discussion and the show organizers value the 

Please try to keep it on topic AND trim quotes. 

Dave Swingle


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:48:01 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

Taken in jest of course. ;P
Everyone who met me at the show saw me with a big plastered smile on my 
I had a great time, and I could care less about a few hundred bucks for a 
show like that.

I guess that it is hard to consider all the hidden costs that it takes to 
make a show
like that happen.
When you price a meal for $45 on the agenda, the consumer just sees the 
but not all the people it takes to put in the tables and chairs, candles, 
plates silverware,
food preparation, serving, clean up and etc.
That was a huge empty building just hours before.
Heck, it must cost hundreds just to cool it off.
..not to mention the rental of the sound and lighting system, video 
projectors, etc.

>From a vendors perspective, it is a great bargain to be able to set up for 
When I attend the National Association of Broadcasters meeting each year in 
they charge $40 per square foot for vendor space!
(typical booth costs $10,000).
However as an attendee I feel that the vendors were one of the star 
I had a great time shopping.

Hey, we can nit-pick this thing to death - I had a great time and loved it.

- Videobob

PS- I am editing some of this video right now and it is fantastic, for 
anyone who missed
the show your lucky I got all this tape so you will be able to see what we 
are talking about!
I have a lot of great candid moments, and everyone who was there will be in 
the video.
I got a little of everyone at some point or another.

>Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing
>Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:54:43 EDT
>In a message dated 6/29/2004 4:32:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> writes:
>We all know video Bob so take these responses as tounge in cheek
>I enjoyed bob at the show and if he can dish it out he can take it as well
>remember these comments are in jest


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:00:50 +0000
Subject: Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge

I think we have seen some good suggestions so far on displaying the cars together.  As interesting as it was to display them inside, the fact that half ,or more than half the cars never made it inside due to whatever reasons, kind of made it a waste of such a great facility.  Again not something that could have been controlled as so many cars either werent able to meet the specs to go inside or choose not to.  In any event I think displaying them together as in Memphis or Cleveland in one group, with no other vehicles around but DeLoreans, makes for a great display.  In fact Cleveland in my opinion was really unique with the cars on the pier.  One of the things I enjoy is being able to see and compare the cars, and the more grouped they are the better.  I know its alot of work but I would be happy to help with this phase of the show as I am sure many others would who have experience with this type of thing.  As Ken said its up to everyone to help make the shows better and better each time.  It can't be a one man show.  Feel free to send me any info you have on Pheasant Run Ken.  Of course I like the sound of saying I am going to DCS Chicago in 2006 better. Maybe because there is a retirement village named Pheasant Run near me :-)  Chicago sounds a little cooler than Pheasant Run.
Gary Gore
DeLorean Mid Atlantic

<<Message: 20
   Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:18:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: How do you Top Pigeon Forge

I agree with you on this one 
The suggestion of grouping the cars has been made and as much as I have tried 
I have just not had the manpower to do it.


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:23:47 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: DCS2006 Venue

If you want a taste of the facility as used for a car show, take a 
look at . Be sure to download the PDF 
brochure. This is of course a much different (and huge) event, but it 
is the same facility. 

This is the premiere Corvette show in the country, it was held last 
weekend. I don't think space is going to be a problem. Although I 
don't think they'll have us all over the golf course!

Dave Swingle


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:26:49 -0500
From: DMCVIN6683 <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

How about on the vehicle registration for the car show have them check 
a box if they want to line up by vin# and this would make it a little 
easier to line up all vehicles that want to participate.

Mark V

On Tuesday, June 29, 2004, at 08:30  PM, wrote:

> Pheasant run has a special back parking lot next to the convention 
> center we
> get for the time we are there.  They have gone out of their way to 
> make sure
> we get the space we need in parking so we should be ok.


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:57:43 -0500
From: "Ancira Internet Department" <>
Subject: Key Disaster

Well, this is just great. The day after Pigeon Forge I ordered a key
blank from PJ Grady for my key that started to look worn. It STILL
hasn't arrived, and today as I went out to the garage to take the car
out, I noticed the key wasn't on the keychain. The rubber tore, and the
metal part is long gone. What do I do now??????

Alex Wolf
Internet Manager
Ancira Auto Groups



Message: 15
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:50:30 -0000
From: "frvianna" <>
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge Show disappointing

I wasn't going to write anything because I am new to the list and I 
have no clue how a DeLorean works. I love it because it's pretty, I 
love the doors, the stailess steel and all. I know nothing about 
mechanics, I can't change a tire, but I had BLAST at that show. I 
went by myself and I met people who will certainly be long-term 
Guys, get a life, stop complaing, enjoy the excitement. No matter if 
you are a D owner, a BTTF fan or just someone who enjoys these events 
or the car, we all went there to have a good time. If this guy 
was "stuck" on saturday is because he is a pain in the neck and 
didn't make any friends, or is too lazy to walk. Get a cab, stop 
complaing! I offered and gave rides to DeLorean owners, I have no 
problems with that, but I probably wouldn't give YOU a ride because I 
wouldn't want someone so negative complaining in my car, grrrrrrrrr
People take days off from work, invest money and time to go to the 
event... we don't need to listen to an unhappy fella saying all of 
these nonsense things. Yeah I love Huey News and the News, but if I 
want to see them, I won't expect to see them at the event, bc as 
everyone said and it's obvious.. it's a lot of $$$$$. The tour every 
now and then, go to a concert! HOtel is bad? who cares, who spent 
time at the hotel? we were in the rooms to shower and sleep, that's 
it. Why didn't you check in a 5 star hotel if you are so picky? I 
didn't stay at the smoky shadows bc I am broke, so I went to Days 
Inn! You know you weren't obliged to stay at that hotel!
And the stuff about professional speakers, give me a break! Are you 
professional? who are you? Yes, Jeff Weissman was great, but he 
couldn't do the whole thing, he can't talk about cars. The way it was 
way great. Whe the speaker was talking about the turbo whatever and 
this and that part that I can't even pronounce, I was doing something 
else. When the speaker was talking about BTTF, I was all eyes and 
ears. No matter how hard it is to please everyone, Ken made a pretty 
darn good job. 
I have no complaints whatsoever. Only that I wish it lasted 
longer....that is just because I had such a good time that it's hard 
to come back home. But 3 days is great. 
The dinner was expensive, yes. But duh! we are not paying for the 
dinner, we are helping fund the event. You guys are complaining that 
it was expensive, I bet that I make less money than anyone in this 
list and I am not complaining. If you can make it better, stop 
boasting and DO IT! But I guess I'll stick with the cool people, I 
wouldn't pay a penny to go to an event full of your #_at_dml_!$^&%$# rules.

Flavia Vianna - NJ
BTTF fan


Message: 16
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 03:13:11 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <>
Subject: Meet and Greet

I am thinking about putting together a meet and greet somewhere 
around Branson,MO. Late summer early fall.

Everyone mapquest it and see what you think. If there are any more 
than 20 confirmed owners, IT'S ON.


Message: 17
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:58:16 EDT
Subject: My reflections of the show

I ususally do this about this time after each show so now that we have all 
the discussion I think now is appropriate.  Here is some of the behind the 
scenes stuff. 

To begin with this show scared me because of two things it was indoors and 
the second the management at the convention center changed 9 times from the 
contract to the actual show.  The last change came 16 days before the show and I 
had to go down to PF and redo the whole show.  The new management knew nothing 
about it.  As you know the Hotel changed management on Tuesday the week of the 
show.  I was having heart failure early.  I never met the two men with the 
grey hair until the day of the show.  They did a great job.

The new team however quickly got things back in order and I actually was 
quite pleased with the way both the hotel and especially the convention center 
came together.  I cannot think of one thing that I asked that they did not do for 
me at the convention center.  This was something I hope you all saw as well.  

I enjoyed for the first time dinner evening, a rarity for me at the show, and 
I think for the massive amount of people we had the registration lines were 
way way down even though the numbers were way up.  I think the most in line was 
about 6 on Thursday.
We needed help Fri and Sat but managed through.  We had 4 people most times 
but needed more not for speed of the line but for our sanity.

This show was a test to see if I could do an indoor show.  It went better 
than expected.

Now the reason for the blue shorts.

You can find me. I found out in Memphis the day I wore the blue shorts I was 
found a lot easier.  I bought 4 more blue shorts. 2 with pockets 2 without 
(never get them without no place for cell phone)  Anyway again it worked if you 
did not know me or had to look for me the guy in the blue shorts was easy to 

Tux was easy too but it got hot quick.

This show was a lot of pressure up to the show but we actually had fun at the 

Most of you will never know the behind the scenes stuff that goes on but it 
is very interesting.

Shows like this just do not happen and the overwhelming majority of you on 
either  the DML or surprisingly the large number of you privately that e-mailed 
all had a great time. I am glad that you did.

Overall we had a schedule to follow for a change and we were pretty much on 
for Thurs and Fri.  Sat we moved Rob to the evening since he had troubles and 
Fred joined him as well.  
that seemed to work out fine.  It gave me a chance to change into my Tux.

A big thanks to Richard Federico he saved my voice.  I have a throat 
condition that if I talk and try to project my voice it dies and it did.

I am going to push for a lot of outside participation this time.  We did not 
get that in PF except Sean Howley did the videos with me for the Dragon run 
and did the test drives. Aaron Posey and Eric Itzel also helped but we needed 
about 10 more people.

All the special guests had a blast and we made a lot of new friends.  They do 
want to come back.

I took a chance with the BTTF and the Turbo but they seemed to work.  I think 
the Turbo would have worked better if Rob had not been detained by technical 
difficulties but he could have packed it up and gone back home but he did not. 
 Thank you Rob.  You all did get a chance to see the three turbos in one 
place the first time you were able to do that.

Jim Prentice was the surprise of the show.  He is a wealth of knowledge and 
we will bring him back.  He appears not to always be politically correct and 
that seems to make things more interesting.

Bob Gales quote helped the T-shirt industry.

Overall I am relieved that this is over, We are positive in cash flow and 
Chicago looks to be an easier venue since the personnel will probably be more 

Meeting all of you at the show was a real treat and the way you all treated 
me and my family is appreciated.  We were stressed out before the show but 
seeing all your smiling faces helps relax us.

I really want to thank the Nork.  These are 17-20 year olds doing their own 
music and they helped us out in Mempis and PF plus they did some Huey Lewis 
songs for us.  
For being so young they were a pleasure to work with.  They were on time, no 
attitude, relaible and easy to work with.  This meant a lot for us.  

I use music for two things one is timing. It helps control the flow of the 
show and it is like a watch you can adjust.  So entertainment is not my main 
concern,  They are background and for those that did not come for the cars it was 
a nice break.  I talked to many that came along with an owner and just 
chilled out and listened.  

I am surprised at the comments on the music both the good and, well other 
comments.  Being inside gave it more attention. Also I noticed if you liked 
country you liked the country band and vice versa.  Oh well no matter what music 
you get there is so many varieties that you will never please everyone. 

Many people liked the videos.  We played most without sound at the request of 
some of the vendors and people up front (concours and BTTF cars etc).
We now have them digitized so we can use them whenever.  If there is a video 
at a show you like and want to hear let us know and we will set up a remote 
sound.  Basically it was just meant for background.  We never intended to do 
full audio because of comments at other shows.

The web cam died when we got it all set up and it did not work. Then they 
told us it was dial up after we set it up.  DUH technical blunder but we 
survived.  The rear camera did not work so Eric Itzel donated the projector and we did 
our own screen and got that to work last minute. (this was in the vendors 

The vendor section was packed most of the time so I hope you all got all the 
parts you needed.  My thanks to all the vendors for their participation.  We 
were bigger than Memphis by a long shot.

The amount of people was amazing. We did predict 500 if you recall.  I think 
that most of you following the stats know  we hit the numbers right on.  

The display of new vs returning attendees I had to show you that and at the 
Friday dinner it was just about half with new vs old just as predicted.

I was very distrubed by the professional theft of items . I hope you 
appreciated the quick response and openess with which we dealt with the situation.   
We will do security cameras if possible at the next show and I will tell you 
one thing that some will not like and that is that the next show will not have 
free access.  Everyone will have to buy a ticket. I need to control the crowd 
and we will be watching. I have no choice.

Pigeon Forge turned out to be a great location since there were so many thing 
to do.
I feel that if someone were bored then they must be dead and can't move.
I even got some go carting in.

We were really pleased with the food and food service.  They were on time, 
food was hot and we did not run out.  All good things.  And I got to eat each 
night so that was a plus.
We even stopped in to Marty's room the one night a first for us. 

Please notice that drinks were free.  We were able to do that here for you.  
I really dislike having a dinner and having no choice of beverage.  We went 
through 250 bottles of soda or as Marc hates me to say POP.

The speakers kept changing and most of you are not aware of all of the 
switches that happened.
Marvin Katz was supposed to come but a family commitment kept him from being 
He is another amazing historian of the DeLorean.

Jeff Wiesman was the surprise at the show for you all and he was a pleasure 
to work with.  
We became great friends with both Bob Gale and especially Claudia Wells and 
At Lunch on Sunday we had a chance to clown around a bit and had a blast.  
Claudia will be back.

On the raffle.  I was ready to call it quits at 9:30 if you could not tell.  
I was dying on stage in the tux.  They brought me a lot of water on stage if 
you did not see it in the back.
The raffle actually ended in 35 minutes much to my relief but Bob Gale 
suggested the autction.  Oh well I said whats 10 more minutes.  Well an  hour later 
we had 4 objects gone 
a second car raffled, my daughter cooking dinner and whatever.  I did see a 
lot of laughter in the audience and no one seemed to leave so I take it you 
were well entertained.  I definately got my moneys worth out of the BTTF people.  
Great bunch of people.

As I told Bob Gale, rarely in ones life do you meet someone that is so 
willing to give so much to make others happy as the BTTF crew.  They were wonderful 
and I hope you all enjoyed them. They went above and beyond what they were 
contracted to do. They want to be part of our show in the future.(pun intended)

Anyway I am on stage dying of heat as you noticed I took off my jacket and 
drank about 5 glasses of water.  We ended at 11:33 and then I had to get out of 
the convention center by midnight or we turned into pumpkins. We kinda made it.

Overall things went smooth and this was the hardest show to set up but the 
easiest to run.

No show would be complete without Kathryn DeLorean.  She has been to every 
one since Cleveland and has become a good friend.  We enjoy her at the shows.

I do hope you all took time out to see Pigeon Forge.  As the web page said 
please get out and see the area so I hope the early judging and free time Friday 
and Sunday gave you that opportunity.  

Thanks for your support 
Remember this is YOUR SHOW
if you want to be involved you may
Please Clubs organize something and do it at the show this is what I ask for 
every year.
I am always in need of volunteers,

This is kinda my download on the show and I hope you find it entertaining.

I am not looking for any comments from this its kinda my thought on it.  
Hopefully you get an idea of all that is required and in the future maybe will 
consider helping us put on the best and biggest Delorean event ever.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:07:52 EDT
Subject: Re: driving tour

In a message dated 6/29/2004 9:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:
1. The route had an unexpected and EXTREMELY POORLY MARKED DETOUR, which 
fouled up ALOT, if not MOST people.  The route organizers even planned for this, 
but they expected the detour to be gone by the time PF rolled around
This was just vandalism.  Someone painted over one of the signs.  
It was ok 2 weeks prior and was actually well marked.
We had both ways planned.  But that is why they call it vandalism.
with the timing and maps I hope most of you caught on in about 5 miles or 
less but I know others were detoured for quite a while.
No one can control Vandals.


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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 03:16:57 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

It is interesting that this subject just came up. I just spoke to
Haggerty about insuring my Delorean. I have a policy now with an
agreed upon value of $20,000. At the time I got it (several years
back, like maybe 8?) to get more they wanted a bunch of pictures and a
professional appraisel. It would have also doubled my premium to go
from 20K to 30K.  Now when I spoke with them THEY suggested I increase
it to 25K or 30K. No appraisel, and for 25K it would add around $67
and to get to 30K from 20K $136. No appraisel, no pictures. When I
asked why he said they follow the auctions and recently Deloreans in
#1-2 condition are averaging 28K. It seems the values of our cars is
slowly rising and you should make sure that your insurance is set at
the correct value for your car. Do not start to think that YOUR car is
worth $28,000. This is for the better examples of a Delorean. Any
appraiser will start out with that number and, just like in concours
judging, any defects will reduce the value. Also, agreed upon value is
not necesaraly the market price. The old, tired, neglected cars will
go down in value as the costs of repairing (parts and labor) go up.
This also has the effect of pushing up the price for the well taken
care of cars since they do not need the repairs. The more the public
sees Deloreans and interest increases also has a positive effect on
values as more people consider buying one. Ken's show has many
indirect positive effects such as showcasing the Delorean Marque and
having our own National event. You never can tell where the next great
piece of publicity comes from and the enormous benefits it can
achieve. Keeping a car "bone stock" is still the best value. No one
ever gives MORE for a modified car generally, at least not enough to
cover the additional costs of the things you added. For instance I do
not think I would pay any more, if between 2 identical cars, 1 had
cruise control and the other did not. Just my Humble Opinion.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757  

--- In, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> My guess is that all the stuff you have added, in particular the EFI 
> conversion, is scaring off anyone who is unfamiliar with the car, or 
> looks at the modifications as something that would be a maintenance 
> nightmare. My guess is that if someone took that into a DMC shop for 
> repairs, even they would not touch it. The advertising medium you 
> have chosen is not attracting people like list-members who have more 
> than passing familiarity with the DeLorean. 
> With most cars, modifications either have no impact or even detract 
> from the price for this reason. I hate to say it but you'd be better 
> off returning the car to stock and selling off the modifications 
> (seats, EFI etc) separately to people who already own the cars and 
> understand the value of your engineering work. I see this happen in 
> the BMW circles all the time. 


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:40:19 EDT
Subject: 50-60 k award correction

We had one oops in the judging where the third place for the 50-60K catagory 
had an error.  The third place person had entered two catagories and actually 
got the same place in both catagories but since only one catagory is allowed 
he was removed from the 50-60K catagory.
Unfortunately the 4th place person should have been moved to the 3rd place 
and there were 5 entries in this catogory.

The winner of the third place is Jeremiah Monte and he will be added to the 
list and get his award.

Sorry for the oops


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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:41:37 -0700
From: "Lauren" <>
Subject: Re: DCS 2006 Suggestions

> It all boils down to people people
> people I get a lot of help on Thursday but the other two days people
> are consumed by the show 

I would gladly help with the Chicago show, Ken, although what I can 
do from Tucson I don't really know.  I'm a good organizer and  a 
splendid expediter.    I was so sorry I couldn't make it to PF.

Maybe by '06 I'll have my car back ;)...................LP


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:12:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Re: [DMLWhats a Delorean Worth?

What are the dyno results for this thing?  I'd buy a car like this (if I didn't
have one already).


> --- In, jwit6_at_dml_c... wrote:
> > 6147 has been advertised in Collector Car Trader for about 2 months 
> now for $18,000 or B/O.
> > I got a call about 2 weeks ago from a gentleman in Dallas who said 
> he wanted it. We were working out the shipping when his wife stepped 
> in and told him he couldn't have it. Actually she didn't like the way 
> it looked.
> > 


Message: 23
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:31:08 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Bad bearing or...? (Goodyear/Kelly Springfield)

In a message dated 6/29/04 7:03:54 AM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> DeLo's are rather noisy on the highway. You're basically hurtling at
> 80 mph in a big Rubbermaid container inches from the pavement. Pull
> back the THIN carpets and you'll see what you're up against. Moreover,
> driving position puts you somewhat reclined against the back wheels
> (with a transmission under your other shoulder). Allows all sorts of
> outside noises migrate into the passenger compartment. 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939

DeLoreans actually scored well on noise level in the contemporty magazines.  
I actually find that with the Michelin Pilots, road noise is very comfortable 
even at 80mph.  if there are a lot of low-frequency road hums or whatever, it 
doesn't sound right to me and it can almost certainly be minimized.  Another 
owner in the MN area recently covered his whole tub in dynamat under the 
carpets.  He says is makes a noticeable difference.  my guess is the tires are not 
very good.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 24
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 00:07:49 -0400
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <>
Subject: Re: DCS 2006 Suggestions

I have been to all of the shows and there were better and worse things about 
this show than the previous.

We do not need to be entertained by a live band. The band during the day on 
Saturday was a total waste and a distraction. People are there to see and 
talk with old friends and discuss cars. If there is a need felt to provide 
music then a DJ would certainly surfice and the volume is more controllable.

The concourse turned into a difficult process between the loud music and 
then the picture event with several hundred people surrounding the cars we 
were trying to judge.

I agree with the tech talks. When I belonged to the DOA and attended their 
events their tech sessions were the highlight. Each vendor could have 15 
minutes to discuss their new or unique products. Do not try and make this a 
DOA type event where they are now which is a focus on the event , not the 
car. Look at their magazine and it says it all.

We have gotten lost on all of the tours and this one was no different. We 
too were behind Marc whether he knew it or not.....what was I thinking!

The hotel made it worse than the other shows. I would hope that no one would 
have to stay in the moldy,ant infested,  unclean rooms that were the low 
priced ones. Our room was "cleaned" one time in the four days we stayed 
there. I travel 3 days a week and these were unacceptible at any rate.( we 
moved to the new side rooms after one look at the cheap ones)

The food was only marginal and anyone that knows me knows I can eat with the 
best of them.

The BTTF theme was O.K. for this show and I thought the movie speakers were 
great but we need to concentrate on the car more. The individuals that were 
responsible for our car may not be available too much longer and we should 
take advantage of them.

Keep up the excellent job Ken, there is no one else that could do the job 
you and your familiy have done. The HOURS of dedication and unappeciated 
time by you and your family are truely appreciated. My comments are only 
meant to help as one person's reflection as we can not improve what we do 
not measure!

Great to see everyone and all the exciting things they are doing to the 
cars. Curtis takes a back seat to several of the cars as far as innovation 
and practical driving improvements to update the car.
Quite different than the first show for sure where virtually everyone was 

Cecil Longwisch


Message: 25
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:23:09 -0000
From: "jmlaux83" <>
Subject: should I remove my pinstripe?

I am in the process of restoring my car. I eventually want to get my 
entire car regrained however I have the grey pinstripe on my car. I 
could leave it on but It would just be more of a hassle regraining. 
Sould I take it off or leave it on since it is original? It still 
looks okay; there is some bubbling and light discoloration and part 
of the M is missing on the Driver side. If I do take this off, what 
would be the best thing to use to remove it? 

Also, does anyone make the large black stripe? If I would ever put on 
a new stripe I would want that one.

Thanks a lot,


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