From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2127
Date: Monday, July 19, 2004 2:38 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Lower suspention arms?
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

2. Re: Odd chatter from brakes *update*
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. LED lights
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re:Rebuilding a Blown Motor. (continued)
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

5. Fuel Pump Boot (was: Re: DELOREAN SAFETY).
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

6. Coolant color purple - what is it?
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

7. 6 year old needs "D" for bday party in Orlando next Saturday
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_stiefelaluminum.com>

8. Shift Points
From: steve trimble <stevetrimble52_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: Rebuilding a Blown Motor. (continued)
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

10. Re: LED lights
From: "Matt" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

11. Re: Shift Points
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

12. Re: Rebuilding a Blown Motor. (continued)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

13. Electrical Diagram question
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

14. Re: LED lights
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

15. Re: Bearing and fuel update
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

16. Fuel Pump Boot (was: Re: DELOREAN SAFETY).
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

17. Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: Lower suspention arms?
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

19. Speedo gone again!
From: "Robert Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

20. Tempremental starting Problem
From: "alistairmccann" <alistairmccann_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. entertainment/speakers at the show
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

22. Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>

23. Running with no pump...
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

24. Re: Tempremental starting Problem
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

25. Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:45:37 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Lower suspention arms?

Hi, When i jack my car up the lower front control arms stop and rest 
on the frame. This over time has slightly bent the area/frame edge  
were they rest on. Is this normal or are they ment to stop slightly 
short of the frame, limited by the shock travel?  I ask this as i am 
getting my frame sandblasted & powdercoated soon and dont want to 
damage the new powder coat around that area. 

thanks Nick 10927-sydney




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:35:47 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Odd chatter from brakes *update*

It is uncommon for the decel valves to stick but from the description 
it is a possible cause. The cracked muffler bracket is more likely 
but usually dosen't make much noise, the muffler just drops and the 
pieces separate so they don't rattle against each other. Very easy to 
check, just push on the top of the muffler (when it's cold of 
course). In fact it is VERY common for that bracket to break. All of 
the venders sell an improved, more durable bracket. The old one can 
be repaired too. You should hear the noise not only on decel but also 
if you rev it up and take your foot off quickly but it would be more 
noticeable when driving. Noises are really hard to diagnose by remote 
control. You could have a serious problem with a C/V joint too and I 
would be leading you in the wrong direction! I worked with Kayo on 
his car experimenting with the decel valves, he had changed his 
exhaust and didn't like the sound so we were trying different things. 
The decel valves won't have any effect on an automatic, they are 
there mainly for the 5-speed.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> 
wrote:
> If the noise is deceleration noise as Dave T suggests I would also 
> expect it to occur when you rev the motor. When you run the motor 
up 
> to 3-4,000 RPM and let off the gas you would hear the noise.
> 
> If the noise stops when you disengage the clutch then I would look 
> for something in the drive line or motor mounts. I suggest applying 
> the parking brake and investigating the movement of the motor and 
> trans assembly with the car in reverse. This should simulate to 
some 
> extent deceleration in gear. With the car running, gently start to 
> engage the clutch first in reverse then in first gear. Repeat 
> several times and observe the movement of the engine. This will be 
> hard to observe alone and usually takes more than one person to do.
> 





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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:57:33 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: LED lights

Can anyone  explain why connecting an LED light in reverse would do anything 
other than not  light up the lamp?
 
In my  experience with plain LEDs they act as a Diode, in that they conduct 
only in one  direction.  I have hooked up many an LED win reverse without ANY  
problem.  As a matter of fact, they make dual LEDs with each one connected  
opposite the other so you can detect which way the current is  flowing.
 
Is there  something else in an automotive LED replacement other than LED(s) 
and a  resistor?

Dave & 6530





"Just Say  NO, to the COUCH POTATO!"

To see how go to _www.tvpedaler.com_ (http://www.tvpedaler.com/)   



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:22:12 EDT
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re:Rebuilding a Blown Motor. (continued)

In a message dated 7/18/2004 4:02:53 PM Central Standard Time, 
"therealdmcvegas"<dmcvegas_at_dml_ writes:
Subject: Re: Rebuilding a Blown Motor (continued)

"The reason that I chose the Eagle Premier PRV was out of necessity.
There are only 2 PRV motors here in town"


   At the show in Pigeon Forge the guys from Pearce Design had a complete 
Stainless Steel frame on display. This was a complete rolling chassis with engine 
and tranny installed. The engine in this frame was not a standard Delorean 
PRV, but a modified Eagle 3.0 PRV. It was interesting to see how many, or I 
should say few, people even noticed the difference.

   Marty 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:03:34 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Fuel Pump Boot (was: Re: DELOREAN SAFETY).

It is a flawed design, yes. But only because too many people over 
tighten the boot and cap.

You've got rubber, on rubber, and you're trying to hold them both 
down with a hose clamp, onto a small, plastic lip underneath. So when 
you try and torque the giant hose clamp down, you're not going to 
really feel as strong a resistance in your hand, like you would if 
you were clamping in a radiator hose, for instance. When you over 
torque the clamp, it doesn't cut into the rubber, like it would a 
hose. Instead, both the cap, and the boot begin to creep upwards, and 
slide off the lip of the tank. Tighten down the clamp too far, and 
the cap will pop right off of the boot.

Instead, you need to tighten down the clamp only so far, until you've 
got a snug fit. As soon as the clamp stops compressing the rubber 
cap, you're there.

There is obviously a safety consideration. After all, if the cap is 
loose, and/or breached somehow, you will have gasoline fumes enter 
the passenger compartment, as they waft up thru the drain on the 
water trap for the fresh air intake, and are then sucked into the 
passenger compartment, where they might be able to be ignited. As a 
side note, if you top off your gas tank, and smell fumes inside 
afterwards, you've got a problem with the boot. The belief that this 
is "normal" for all DeLoreans is total B.S. After replacing a ripped 
boot, and tightening down my cap properly, I can top off the tank to 
the point of having a full filler neck, and I cannot smell a thing.

Now, why did DMC, or Lotus choose this design? Who knows. But, My 
guess would be that you need to completely isolate the electical 
wires. Which isn't a problem to get around, and could be easily 
replaced. Just swap it over to the same locking ring assembly that 
holds the sending unit in place. You could do it one of two ways, 
with either a two, or 3 peice assembly that would require minor 
modifications to the boot and cap, depending upon tooling costs.

I wouldn't really think that the gas cap becomming unlodged would be 
that big of a problem, since I've never heard of this senario 
actually being played out in real life, and due to the limited # of 
vehicles involved. But contact me off list if you want to know more 
details.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> 
wrote:
> Very interesting information and probably something we should all 
> think about.
> 
> The current configuration of the fuel pump and the clamping still 
> has a weakness in that the pump can come out because the fuel tank, 
> where the fuel pump clamp goes around the rubber boot, is too 
> flexible. In a hard frontal impact or probably front side impact 
the 
> boot can probably come off especially if the inspection cover above 
> it was broken loose or deformed in some way. I can't tell you how 
> many of these fuel pump boots I've seen that are loose or could be 
> maneuvered by hand and just slipped off. Until now I have not 
> considered the consequences in an accident.
> 
> I can think of several ways to anchor the boot as I'm sure lots of 
> members can. I believe this is probably a safety issue that we need 
> to address.
> 
> Send me any suggestions (hmcelraft_at_dml_a...) and I will accumulate 
> and post for the group. I'm sure a practical solution(s) can be 
> developed or formulated by one of our innovative vendors.
> 
> Harold McElraft - 3354




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:32:09 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Coolant color purple - what is it?

I started on the restoration of the car I bought a couple of weeks 
ago in SC = #2466. This car has been driven 4000 miles since 1985. It 
was last started in 1999 or so. The fuel was definitely on its way to 
becoming paint thinner. Today's project was flushing the tar out of 
the gas tank, and draining the cooling system. The cooling system is 
what amazed me. 

The coolant came out a grayish purple. I have not seen that color in 
coolant before. What really amazed me was how clean and nice the 
pipes were inside, the best I've ever seen on a long-term-stored, and 
even many driven, cars. 

Does anyone have any idea what this stuff is? It is not the blue BMW 
type, it was more the color of thin grape juice. I'd really like to 
use it in the future if I can figure out what it is. 

Dave S.




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:42:02 -0400
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_stiefelaluminum.com>
Subject: 6 year old needs "D" for bday party in Orlando next Saturday

I was contacted by a 6 year old fan in Orlando who needs a "D" for next Sat
B-day party.  They are willing to pay $100.00 for a ride for him and some
face time here is the original email I received:

"Ok, this is stretch, but I have to ask.  I have a six year old DeLorean
lover who is having a birthday party Saturday the 24th in the N.Orlando
area.  His party theme is Back to the Future.  We were also at the DSC show
in TN.  You may remember him as the one who asked Bob Gale the question
about "making the DeLorean disappear" (that Friday night).  We're looking
for a DeLorean owner in our area who would love to give him (and his dad) a
quick ride around the block, and, of course, let everyone admire the car a
little.  We would be willing to pay $100 for a the cameo if you (or anyone
else in the area) would like to do that for us.  I understand if you can't.
It's a long way from Tampa.  Thanks for your time.
 
-- John"

Anyone down here care to give them a hand they can be reached at: 

john_at_dml_spangler.net

Jack Stiefel
www.fmtimemachine.com



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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: steve trimble <stevetrimble52_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Shift Points

Any opinion on the proper shift point(rpm wise)for the
five speed??
Steve T



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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:16:26 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Rebuilding a Blown Motor. (continued)

Robert - There are two DeLorean owners up here in the Northwest 
(PNDC) who have had installations involving the Eagle Premier 
engine.  One person had the entire engine transplanted, and went 
with Electromotive F/I, distributorless ignition, etc.  The other 
person used the Premier block with the DeLorean heads and top end.  
The second car engine appears to be stock from the outside, but has 
3.0 liter displacement and is even-fire.  The same shop in Seattle 
did both engine swaps.  I don't think that I should post their email 
addresses on the DML, but I can try to get them in touch with you.  
Perhaps they have some insights that you can use?

Toby Peterson VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> The reason that I chose the Eagle Premier PRV was out of nessesity.





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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:49:22 -0000
From: "Matt" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: LED lights

I think it's just a general sort-of thing.  If for whatever reason, 
a particular LED would have a breakdown voltage that is the same, or 
very close to the normal operating voltage (12V + resistor) of the 
LED, the LED would probably be thermally damaged.  Not that this is 
a likely scenario, but I guess it's possible.  To my knowledge, 
zener diodes are the only kind that aren't damaged by operating in 
the breakdown region.

Matt
#1604


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Can anyone  explain why connecting an LED light in reverse would 
do anything 
> other than not  light up the lamp?
>  
> In my  experience with plain LEDs they act as a Diode, in that 
they conduct 
> only in one  direction.  I have hooked up many an LED win reverse 
without ANY  
> problem.  As a matter of fact, they make dual LEDs with each one 
connected  
> opposite the other so you can detect which way the current is  
flowing.
>  
> Is there  something else in an automotive LED replacement other 
than LED(s) 
> and a  resistor?
> 
> Dave & 6530
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Just Say  NO, to the COUCH POTATO!"
> 
> To see how go to _www.tvpedaler.com_ (http://www.tvpedaler.com/)   
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:25:11 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Shift Points

Opinion? My opinion is that the 3.44:1 final drive is a little high, 
which is why with my 25 turbo engine, I'm moving to 3.8:1 as found in 
the Renault 30 (same gearbox with transaxle the other way around). With 
an engine capable of better mileage, and red-lining at 7000rpm, it'll 
make for a more rewarding drive than the stock transmission

Martin

steve trimble wrote:

>Any opinion on the proper shift point(rpm wise)for the
>five speed??
>Steve T
>
>  
>





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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:05:06 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Rebuilding a Blown Motor. (continued)

Eagle PRV is identical to Volvo B280 -- a MAJOR redesign of the
original B27/B28 platform:
- Even firing sequence
- 10.5:1 compression
- Different size intake ports (won't match older K Jetronic intake
manifold, though width is same). Also no K Jetronic injector ports in
the heads (uses EFI LH Jetronic)
- Cylinders are reported larger diameter. I'd read once in a Volvo
newsgroup that bore was the same as B28, but engine owners on DML
claim otherwise. If cylinders are indeed different size, you'll have
to keep B280/3.0 heads with the block
- I believe main bearings are different too

Have you done a compression test on your current engine yet? That will
at least where you're losing coolant (because it's under constant
pressure, coolant flows into the cylinders, not the other way around).
You may also be able to see rust on the electrode of the affected
spark plug. The foam in your breather cap replicates what's going on
inside your engine (pull the dip stick). That's why the main bearings
may be suffering accelerated wear.  

Volvo newsgroups complain that Volvo head gaskets are much less sturdy
than Renault. I believe it's the difference between soft metal and a
composite of some sort. That being the case, you may simply have a
disintegrating head gasket. Martin Gutkowski could send you a Renault
replacement. This local (to me) mechanic also imports them:
 Norman Preser
 International Car Restoration
 754 Kirkland Circle
 Elgin, SC 29045
 (803) 438-6626

I sincerely doubt seals at the bottom of your cylinders are
compromised. But be careful when removing the affected head or they
may so become! There's a funny swooping motion you're supposed to make
when removing a PRV head to break the upper cylinder liner seals
before removing it. Simply lifting it staight off will pick them up
and break the lower seals. You've also got to be careful not to
disturb the liners while the head is off. If there's any chance you'll
be rotating or otherwise jostling the engine, buy or make brackets to
straddle the liners (attach in head bolt holes) and hold them still.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> The reason that I chose the Eagle Premier PRV was out of nessesity.
> There are only 2 PRV motors here in town, at the junk yards. Vegas
> sucks when it comes to being an automotive hobbiest, and this is a
> prime example why. It's the same salvage yard that has both PRV's, and
> they've never even done a compression test on either one! So who knows
> what the condition of the engines are, except to say they're over 91K
> miles on the clock. After I ran thru a couple of quick pictures on the
> Eagle Premier books, and wiring diagrams that I have here, that too is
> when I discovered that there is no pick up for the distributor. Just
> as bad, I have no idea what the difference between the crankshafts
> are. So even if I could swap heads, and cams, I have no idea if the
> connecting rods, and the bearing assemblies will even fit between
> Eagle/DeLorean. Another thing was checking the archives, someone had
> come up with this idea before, and it was *estimated* that the
> compression would result in 9.5:1, or so. I have no idea if that would
> result in bad vibrations, with an odd-fire engine.
> 
> Currently, the engine runs just fine. No loss of power, oil pressure
> looks to be the same, and no decrease in gas milage. Exhaust is clean,
> with no smoke, or steam. But the level of oil inside the crank case is
> the same. Despite a bad leak from the front main seal. So while I have
> not performed any tests on the motor, I don't think that a simple head
> job is going to heal my engine. I think that the water jacket has been
> compromised between the block, and the cylinder sleeve. As you can
> guess, I am very worried about the internal condition of the motor. I
> have no clue as to WTF this crap is thats puking out of the breather
> cap. And that makes me worried as to what the condition of the oil
> passages, pump, and my valve train in general are, let alone my
> bearings, thrust washers, and crank. Back when I first discovered this
> issue, Warren _at_dml_ DMC Houston told me that due to the description of my
> motor, it didn't qualify for a performance upgrade. I could only get a
> crate motor installed.  So that hasn't exactly built up any hopes for
> salvaging this engine.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:29:09 -0000
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Electrical Diagram question

Can someone explain to me why the fuel gauge wire "G" go through/to the
service interval counter 185? I just don't undertsand what it needs from
the coutner, as well as all the lights on that side of the cluster and
tach. Thanks guys -Dani B. 5003




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:17:42 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LED lights

There's a device called a rectifier which allows the polarity to be 
reversed - it's made from 4 regular diodes. Cheaper LED bulbs don't have 
this and are polarity-sensitive.

LED stands for Light Emitting Diode. That's why they act like diodes, 
because they are diodes. Diodes typically drop 0.7v. However, you can 
get LED's that are rated at 12v (or 3 or 4)  because they are made from 
very small arrays of diodes. Our robot uses 40 super-bright  24v LED's

Martin

doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>Can anyone  explain why connecting an LED light in reverse would do anything 
>other than not  light up the lamp?
> 
>In my  experience with plain LEDs they act as a Diode, in that they conduct 
>only in one  direction.  I have hooked up many an LED win reverse without ANY  
>problem.  As a matter of fact, they make dual LEDs with each one connected  
>opposite the other so you can detect which way the current is  flowing.
> 
>Is there  something else in an automotive LED replacement other than LED(s) 
>and a  resistor?
>
>Dave & 6530
>
>
>  
>





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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:41:56 -0000
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Bearing and fuel update

Okay I finally got the alignment done. It's been tough trying to find
time, I've been in and out of doctors offices and hospitals for
testing, still have symptoms after 8 months from having 2 concussions
so its been rough. But anyway, the tire balancing was fine, but the
alignment was off, I don't have the numbers in front of me but once it
came off the lift and I drove home, I had a vibration free ride. Now I
know what I've been missing all these years I've had the car. Thanks
for all the help and suggestions! Dani B 5003

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> The vibration isn't due to the brakes, as I said it happens just
> driving-no brakes applied-but thanks for the info on that area.
> Anyway, I've already spent many thousands on this car-as I did the
> frame off resto in December-March replacing 90% of the parts on the
> car. By now, all parts on my car, less engine and manual trans; are
> new. This is why I'm convinced that its just the tires/alignment, and
> many suggest looking there-so I made an apointment for an alignment at
> one of the local garages and will also get a spin balance on all 4
> tires. The 2 pieces of equipment my shop lacks! I've been restoring
> classic cars for a long time, if I've learned anything from it-it is
> to just replace the part if it has little wear, because once it's new
> chances are you wont have to worry about it for a long time.. Reminds
> me-does anyone want to buy a 66 Ford Thunderbird?? :)  Thanks guys
> I'll let you know what happens in a few days! Dani B. #5003




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:21:29 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Fuel Pump Boot (was: Re: DELOREAN SAFETY).

In lieu of an upper cover I have a splash guard attached to the outer
face of the spare tire well (deflects water from the windshield
plenum). This means only 1 layer of rubber between the tank opening
and hose clamp -- the boot. Clamp holds it very tightly against that
lip. Impossible to remove without loosening the clamp.

Simplest improvement to the upper cover would be a design that
straddles the clamp, allowing it to hold the boot only.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> It is a flawed design, yes. But only because too many people over 
> tighten the boot and cap.
> 
> You've got rubber, on rubber, and you're trying to hold them both 
> down with a hose clamp, onto a small, plastic lip underneath. So when 
> you try and torque the giant hose clamp down, you're not going to 
> really feel as strong a resistance in your hand, like you would if 
> you were clamping in a radiator hose, for instance. When you over 
> torque the clamp, it doesn't cut into the rubber, like it would a 
> hose. Instead, both the cap, and the boot begin to creep upwards, and 
> slide off the lip of the tank. Tighten down the clamp too far, and 
> the cap will pop right off of the boot.
> 
> Instead, you need to tighten down the clamp only so far, until you've 
> got a snug fit. As soon as the clamp stops compressing the rubber 
> cap, you're there.
> 
> There is obviously a safety consideration. After all, if the cap is 
> loose, and/or breached somehow, you will have gasoline fumes enter 
> the passenger compartment, as they waft up thru the drain on the 
> water trap for the fresh air intake, and are then sucked into the 
> passenger compartment, where they might be able to be ignited. As a 
> side note, if you top off your gas tank, and smell fumes inside 
> afterwards, you've got a problem with the boot. The belief that this 
> is "normal" for all DeLoreans is total B.S. After replacing a ripped 
> boot, and tightening down my cap properly, I can top off the tank to 
> the point of having a full filler neck, and I cannot smell a thing.
> 
> Now, why did DMC, or Lotus choose this design? Who knows. But, My 
> guess would be that you need to completely isolate the electical 
> wires. Which isn't a problem to get around, and could be easily 
> replaced. Just swap it over to the same locking ring assembly that 
> holds the sending unit in place. You could do it one of two ways, 
> with either a two, or 3 peice assembly that would require minor 
> modifications to the boot and cap, depending upon tooling costs.
> 
> I wouldn't really think that the gas cap becomming unlodged would be 
> that big of a problem, since I've never heard of this senario 
> actually being played out in real life, and due to the limited # of 
> vehicles involved. But contact me off list if you want to know more 
> details.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> 
> wrote:
> > Very interesting information and probably something we should all 
> > think about.
> > 
> > The current configuration of the fuel pump and the clamping still 
> > has a weakness in that the pump can come out because the fuel tank, 
> > where the fuel pump clamp goes around the rubber boot, is too 
> > flexible. In a hard frontal impact or probably front side impact 
> the 
> > boot can probably come off especially if the inspection cover above 
> > it was broken loose or deformed in some way. I can't tell you how 
> > many of these fuel pump boots I've seen that are loose or could be 
> > maneuvered by hand and just slipped off. Until now I have not 
> > considered the consequences in an accident.
> > 
> > I can think of several ways to anchor the boot as I'm sure lots of 
> > members can. I believe this is probably a safety issue that we need 
> > to address.
> > 
> > Send me any suggestions (hmcelraft_at_dml_a...) and I will accumulate 
> > and post for the group. I'm sure a practical solution(s) can be 
> > developed or formulated by one of our innovative vendors.
> > 
> > Harold McElraft - 3354




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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:06:42 -0000
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?

Dave,

Sounds like AMSOIL Propylene Glycol, only purple coolant I can think 
of. It is supposed to have amazing anti-corrosive properties to it.
Let us know if that's it. Maybe some of the infrequently driven cars 
can be converted over to it if it works out good, as far as anti 
corrosiveness goes. Supposed to have the same cooling properties as 
traditional ethylene glycol coolant with better protection for 
engine components.

If that isn't it, maybe the PO added a bunch of aftermarket 
additives?


Joe O'Brien

2524 & 16634





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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:05:18 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Lower suspention arms?

Nick - The theory is that the shock extension is supposed to stop 
the lower control arm before it contacts the frame.  However, this 
is only a theory as I have seen this type of damage on many cars, 
including Winged1.  I suspect that aftermarket shocks may contribute 
to the problem, as well as worn bushings at either end of the 
shocks.  If you are completely stripping and powdercoating the 
frame, it would be nice to change things a bit to eliminate the 
interference.  Unfortunately, the forward tow hooks are right there, 
so simply trimming the frame might not be the best idea.  If you 
could get your shop to move the tow hooks inboard a bit, a *smooth* 
trim on that edge would be okay from a structural standpoint.  
Another problem with this interference is that it creates a "close 
couple" (think nutcracker) on the lower control arm, which can bend 
the arm easily.  This can be a problem from a fatigue cracking 
perspective if the arm is crushed locally from contact with the 
frame.  Let us know what you decide to do.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, nicholden_at_dml_y... wrote:
> Hi, When i jack my car up the lower front control arms stop and 
rest on the frame. This over time has slightly bent the area/frame 
edge were they rest on. Is this normal or are they ment to stop 
slightly short of the frame, limited by the shock travel?  I ask 
this as i am getting my frame sandblasted & powdercoated soon and 
dont want to damage the new powder coat around that area. 
> 
> thanks Nick 10927-sydney




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:59:24 -0000
From: "Robert Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Speedo gone again!

Why is it everytime I go over 100MPH I loose my speedo?
It's either the angle drive, or a cable!
This time it is the upper cable, I am pretty sure that is it because
I started to hear a "clickity clickity" sound when I would speed up,
and now that the Speedo is not working I am still hearing the noise,
meaning that the angle drive is still turning the lower cable.

I was giving a show for a new Corvette.
Sure, he was toying with me, but I gave him a thrill up to about 
115MPH until I dropped off.
There was some traffic up ahead, and I was relieved because it gave me
a chance to slow down before he found out that he could have toasted
me by at least 40MPH.

For the next week he will be telling people about racing a DeLorean.
Lucky for me there was no winner, but a gracefull bow out.
We all know what a new Vette could do to a stock DeLorean!
oof!

- Videobob
VIN#5278





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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:29:31 -0000
From: "alistairmccann" <alistairmccann_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Tempremental starting Problem

Hi Folks

I have noticed a problem with my ignition recently.

The car starts on the button in the morning and drives fine all day 
long but when you stop the car for say 5 minutes and then try to 
start it again it will turn over and it takes you to keep pumping 
the gas pedal to get it to start.

Could the fuel mixture be too rich?? I dont know if this is the 
start of a hot start problem?? I mean after I pump the pedal a few 
times it will start and drive as if nothing was wrong.

HELP PLEASE, Its starting to get embarresing a Gas stations

Alistair McCann.




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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:09:05 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: entertainment/speakers at the show

Ron Wester wrote me the following paragraph and wanted to know if I would 
share the answer with you.  I said ok.


I was wondering how much if any the DCS has to pay for someone like JZD,
Bob Gale, Claudie, etc to come to the show.  Is it travel money, room and
board,  appearence fee?  Also does DCS pay for any of the show cars or
vendors to appear?  Ive heard several people bring up these questions so
I thought I would ask


Answer

I don't mind sharing general information but I will not get into individual 
costs.

Every guest was paid to be there.  I think for what we got and what I ended 
up charging we did real well.  

We definately paid for JZD to attend Cleveland and will end up paying for him 
to attend another show if he chooses to come.  JZD did not come to PF but he 
was offered a package to be there. 

Vendors are not paid to be there or speak as they make money selling parts 
and are going to be there anyway.

The guest cost range from a few  hundred to a few thousand.
Some require travel and food, some require that plus speaking costs. 
Its hard to get something for nothing.

For this show we were around $10K in guest speaker costs.  I felt for the 
number of guest we had I did real real well this time.  Compensation for this 
type of guest is common and they were quite reasonable.  Add this to the 
convention center cost (remember we had a convention center for three days and they 
are not cheap) and you can see the cost to just open the door is high.  Without 
500+ people it would not have worked.

Lets see

Claudia Wells
Bob Gale
Jeff Wiesmann
Fred Dellis
Jim Prentice
Kathryn DeLorean
The Nork
Joe Charter

Special owners
Curtis

plus the vendors that added in that was a full schedule including the tech 
parts from

Rob Grady
Stephen Clark
Randal Brown (Who I think does an excellent job)
Don Steger
John Hervey

Words of wisdom and added entertainment and awards
Walter Coe (barefoot guy) 
Vidoe Bob
Bob Miller
Gary Hull
Various Clubs
Millenium Concours

And the raffle car.

I did help out two show car owners a little this time due to extreme expenses 
they had incurred and I felt without them it would not be as good of a show.  
That amount however was insignificant compared to the rest and it is 
understood that I will not do it again. That was my call and I felt it was the proper 
one based on what we got back in return.   In no other DCS show has the DCS 
helped to bring in cars.  We were supposed to have two other cars at the show 
but last minute they wanted money to bring the cars.  They were not at the show. 
 

We do not pay cash to anyone other than contracted speakers/entertainers.

I guarentee no one will give you this much value for what is charged.
This show was one of the highest value shows we did so far.

PF was the least expensive show we did per person besides Cincinnati and that 
was only because it did not have a Thursday night event.

We are so fortunate to have so many people to contribute to the DeLoreans 
History and we will continue to bring you as much as we can find.  If we do not 
have the funds to bring these people in then the history will be lost.  Many of 
the potential guests are just factory worker who have an inside history that 
will be gone forever in the upcoming years.


Chicago is a more expensive venue and food cost alone are going to be a 
challenge.


Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:50:35 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?

Some kind of stabilizer?  Since it was in storage, maybe.

Johnny
5518


 
> The coolant came out a grayish purple. I have not seen that color 
in 
> coolant before. What really amazed me was how clean and nice the 
> pipes were inside, the best I've ever seen on a long-term-stored, 
and 
> even many driven, cars. 
> 
> Does anyone have any idea what this stuff is? It is not the blue 
BMW 
> type, it was more the color of thin grape juice. I'd really like to 
> use it in the future if I can figure out what it is. 
> 
> Dave S.




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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:06:11 -0000
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Running with no pump...

A few weeks ago when I was having fuel pump difficulties, I had my car
running with the gray connector plugged into the blue cold start
valve-and it would run with the 2 fuel hoses/steel lines up by the
pump connected
either way (correct or backwards). Also, it would run with the pump
disconnected. It wasn't possible to drive it, it would only idle, any
pressure on the pedal and it would die after about 2/2.5K RPM. But I
could have it running as long as there was fuel in the tank. I'm just
wondering how this is possible, and how the fuel is getting to the
engine with no pump. Thanks, Dani B. #5003




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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:22:07 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Tempremental starting Problem

Sounds like the classic hot start problem. You can either try the 
plug swap or you can pull the return line off the acumulater and see 
if fuel is coming out when you run the pump. It could also be a 
problem with the ballast resistors and/or the bypass relay or 
corroded, dirty connections. I would start with the fuel system. BTW 
pumping the gas pedal should not have any effect except physcological.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "alistairmccann" 
<alistairmccann_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hi Folks
> 
> I have noticed a problem with my ignition recently.
> 
> The car starts on the button in the morning and drives fine all day 
> long but when you stop the car for say 5 minutes and then try to 
> start it again it will turn over and it takes you to keep pumping 
> the gas pedal to get it to start.
> 
> Could the fuel mixture be too rich?? I dont know if this is the 
> start of a hot start problem?? I mean after I pump the pedal a few 
> times it will start and drive as if nothing was wrong.
> 
> HELP PLEASE, Its starting to get embarresing a Gas stations
> 
> Alistair McCann.




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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:36:30 -0000
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?

Aside from the Amsoil, it might also be Royal Purple's Purple Ice.

http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/prpice.html

Both the Amsoil and Royal Purple products are excellent.

My $0.02
Thanks!
Dave Jacobs

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I started on the restoration of the car I bought a couple of weeks 
> ago in SC = #2466. This car has been driven 4000 miles since 1985. 
It 
> was last started in 1999 or so. The fuel was definitely on its way 
to 
> becoming paint thinner. Today's project was flushing the tar out 
of 
> the gas tank, and draining the cooling system. The cooling system 
is 
> what amazed me. 
> 
> The coolant came out a grayish purple. I have not seen that color 
in 
> coolant before. What really amazed me was how clean and nice the 
> pipes were inside, the best I've ever seen on a long-term-stored, 
and 
> even many driven, cars. 
> 
> Does anyone have any idea what this stuff is? It is not the blue 
BMW 
> type, it was more the color of thin grape juice. I'd really like 
to 
> use it in the future if I can figure out what it is. 
> 
> Dave S.




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